Does Tom Danielson suck?

[swoop]

Discuss.....

[Acotts]

We are not s'posed to attack posters swoop.

[swoop]

(i'm sure he's a great guy.... but what up?).

[GregL]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/feb08/california08/?id=results/california083

"Director sportif Jonathan Vaughters said Farrar was suffering from a virus of some sort.

It's from a couple of days ago," he said. "It started out with [Steven] Cozza and then went to Tyler. It could just be a stomach virus - 20 percent of the field has it, [Tomas] Danielson too."

[DfCas]

No

[swoop]

name a stage race he's stayed healthy through....
(and remember this aint personal... its just sports talk)

[musgravecycles]

Yes... There I said it.

[jthurow]

When I first saw your post, I figured he fell off his bike again today.

jimi

[GregL]

name a stage race he's stayed healthy through....
(and remember this aint personal... its just sports talk)

Kinda' like JV. Great climbing talent, but not physically robust enough to handle the stresses of pro racing. Several news reports have also stated that his pack riding skills are weak and cause him to waste a lot of energy.

[rphetteplace]

I just hope Boonen doesn't catch it. Lord knows that boy will ride with shat pants. I still can't shake the image of him in those white shorts.

[Chris]

Reminds me of a guy who used a certain coach who was notorious for certain practices. During that time, he crushed every event he was a part of, and then we he moved on and no longer used that certain coach and those certain practices, all of a sudden he wasn't so good anymore.

Or maybe he just got a flare up of the Giardia, or of the stuff that ended Lemond's career.

[swoop]

i'm just amazed he hasn't distinguished himself for one moment and any portion of anything uphill... i haven't seen him in the wind at all....

[tomwd3]

Irrespective of like or dislike, I don't see him as a 3 week tour guy. He's just never been able to hold up. Illness or an off-day and he's out of the GC. I recall he had a pretty good vuelta a while back, but that's no TDF.
Not getting any younger either.

[93legendti]

name a stage race he's stayed healthy through....
(and remember this aint personal... its just sports talk)


http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//vuelta06/?id=results/vuelta0617

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//vuelta06/?id=results/vuelta0621

Vuelta 2006 Final General classification

1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana Team 81.23.07
2 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 1.12
3 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana Team 3.12
4 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.35
5 José Angel Gomez Marchante (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 6.51
6 Thomas Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 8.09
7 Samuel Sánchez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 8.26
8 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 10.36
9 Manuel Beltran (Spa) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 10.47
10 Luis Pérez (Spa) Cofidis, le Credit par Telephone 11.32

[jerk]

if sr ferretti says you suck, you suck.

jerk

[SWorks4me]

if sr ferretti says you suck, you suck.

jerk

+1

Rick Crawford sucks for putting him on a pedestal...kids got a glass jaw!

[Monthly Payment]

Here's some more questions related to Tommy D.

Why is there so much hate towards Tom? If there's a English/ US based forum discussing pro cycling, someone somewhere talks about how he can't get it done.

Why was he anointed the "next great" one? I understand he won Tour in Malaysia, he got a ride on Fassa, and Lance said he was gonna be a good rider.

Way I see it, he's an average pro. He's a good climber, who has really good form sometimes. Maybe as Americans we want an American to be a world beater so bad, we put too much undeserved pressure on the guy?

Most guys don't win a lot. Why don't we have more Levi, George, Freddie, and Vande Velde don't get it done threads? ATMO, they got a lot more talent than Danielson and less time to get better.

HEY - I've been lurking for years. That was my first ATMO! And this is my first :banana:

[swoop]

i just emailed frankie about danielson and now they're talking about him on the webcast.
i love the interweb.

[SWorks4me]

i just emailed frankie about danielson and now they're talking about him on the webcast.
i love the interweb.

just heard it...how can that tool not know who Tomac is!?

[chakatrain]

...who knows...maybe it's too much too early. From everything I've read, this guy can climb like a mt. goat, but he's had back luck with sickness on and off. I had hoped to see him in great form (saw him climb yesterday on Sierra Rd...he was in like the 3rd group, pretty far ahead of the autobus, but maybe 3-7 min behind Levi's group) but he apparently has the virus that's going around, which caused Farrar and a few others to abandon.

Is he prone to being sick/not 100%? Am not sure. Would like to see him 100% for a season to see if he can be a Rubiera-like domestique pulling up hills. I'll hope for the best, and will keep my fingers crossed for him.

[jeffg]

if sr ferretti says you suck, you suck.

jerk

What happened to Ferretti's team again?

[jhcakilmer]

I think he's a very talented rider, and many people have noticed it. He just needs to find the right combination of races that work for him. He's obviously not extremely durable.

I don't think he will ever be able to compete in a grand tour competitively. Your immune system is so essential to you day-to-day recovery, as well as fighting of the usually infection.

He should try and focus on the hilly classics, and short stage races, or even World TT.

[J.Greene]

My opinion is that Tommy D is too weak minded to be a winner. In interviews he is always talking about how he is still learning. He's been around too long to still be learning.

JG

[Grant McLean]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//vuelta06/?id=results/vuelta0617

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//vuelta06/?id=results/vuelta0621

Vuelta 2006 Final General classification

1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana Team 81.23.07
2 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 1.12
3 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana Team 3.12
4 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.35
5 José Angel Gomez Marchante (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 6.51
6 Thomas Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 8.09
7 Samuel Sánchez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 8.26
8 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 10.36
9 Manuel Beltran (Spa) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 10.47
10 Luis Pérez (Spa) Cofidis, le Credit par Telephone 11.32

I think this example race disproves your point, and makes Swoops point for him.
Danielson's start to the race was a "disaster" in his own words.
The fact that Tom finished the race is a great achievement,
but Swoop's point is about being good from start to finish.

http://www.velonews.com/article/10860

"the beginning of the race was such a disaster," said Danielson


"I came here as a podium contender and I saw that all flush down the toilet rather quickly in the beginning," Danielson said

"After losing nearly four minutes in the climbing stage at El Morredero in stage 7,
Danielson gave up on his hopes of finishing on the Vuelta’s final podium.

"It was really hard for me after my big disappointment. I still don’t know why
my legs couldn’t respond," Danielson said. "All I know now is that I have nothing
to lose."

I'm not being critical here... just trying to represent the reality of the race.

-g

[AgilisMerlin]

remember Vaughters is sending him to the spring classics........one day one race

[swoop]

there's always a backstory.. zabriskie is doing well because he's allowed to wear his custom shoes.
riis wouldn't budge and the poor guy was injured all the time from the shoes and the bs..

but this year he'll kill it just because he's being treated right and he's knees aren't ruined for the shoes....

atmo.

[swoop]

remember Vaughters is sending him to the spring classics........one day one race

i don't think has the pack skills for em....
but i would love to see him put it together.
oh i get it.. jv wants to develop that pack stuff in him?

did you all see george hit that descent? he was nailing it.... gotta give it to him for knowing how to ride a bike...

[Viper]

Tommy D. Vs. George Hincapie.

Two men.
Two bikes.
One race.
Who would win?


:D

[swoop]

Tommy D. Vs. George Hincapie.

Two men.
Two bikes.
One race.
Who would win?


:D

george can handle a bike.

[Viper]

george can handle a bike.

But...can he handle a challenge?

For some it is, "No chain."

For others it is, "No knife."

[merckx]

Okay, I am a coach so I will weigh-in on this one. I have seen athletes who get sick, become injured, crash into black cats all the time, and generally have bad luck as a constant shadow because they often find themselves in situations where they are always over reaching. They may be fabulous athletes, but something is missing, whether physiological or psychological or both, and then they often find themselves on the wrong side of the razors edge. It happens. So, maybe TD is "almost there", and is working hard to get there, but that extra effort is just overwhelming for his constitution.

[merckx]

Oh, so to answer the question. No, he doesn't suck.

[chrisroph]

TD is tweaky. So was alexi. But neither of them sucks.

[maunahaole]

zabriskie is doing well because he's allowed to wear his custom shoes.
riis wouldn't budge and the poor guy was injured all the time from the shoes and the bs..

but this year he'll kill it just because he's being treated right and he's knees aren't ruined for the shoes....

atmo.


I thought it was the pornstash.

[Fat Robert]

tom d is slipstream's best chance for a grand tour stage win

there are better TT riders than millar and z-man

danielson is a guy who will lose 15 minutes in the first two weeks because of his limitations, then be able to slip away and toast a breakaway group on a summit finish. stage win.

he will probably never win a UCI-ranked stage race

and flux could lap him in a 'cross race

twice

[Chris]

TD is tweaky. So was alexi. But neither of them sucks.

Not even in the same stratosphere. If we wore jocks while riding, Tom couldn't even carry Alexi's...

[93legendti]

tom d is slipstream's best chance for a grand tour stage win

there are better TT riders than millar and z-man

danielson is a guy who will lose 15 minutes in the first two weeks because of his limitations, then be able to slip away and toast a breakaway group on a summit finish. stage win.

he will probably never win a UCI-ranked stage race

and flux could lap him in a 'cross race

twice
Robert, wasn't the Tour of Georgia a UCI - ranked stage race when TD won in it 2005?

[Dave B]

there's always a backstory.. zabriskie is doing well because he's allowed to wear his custom shoes.
riis wouldn't budge and the poor guy was injured all the time from the shoes and the bs..

but this year he'll kill it just because he's being treated right and he's knees aren't ruined for the shoes....

atmo.


I thought he hated the lolly pop pedals as well. maybe it was his shoes that caused so many probs.

Still a great rider!

[LegendRider]

Keep in mind that it wasn't too long ago that he was a Cat 3. I and a lot of people on this forum have been racing a lot longer than him. That may have something to do with it...

[swoop]

don't make me quote 'the little prince'!

[Viper]

don't make me quote 'the little prince'!

The book was written on my beach. Word.

[Fat Robert]

Robert, wasn't the Tour of Georgia a UCI - ranked stage race when TD won in it 2005?

he won't win a UCI-ranked stage race in Europe


and flux would still kill him in 'cross

[93legendti]

he won't win a UCI-ranked stage race in Europe


and flux would still kill him in 'cross


Hervis Tour of Austria? I don't think that was a UCI stage race when TD won it in '06...

[SWorks4me]

Dude has been riding long enough to know how to ride in the peloton, but even his own DS says he wastes too much energy following the right wheels.

[Fat Robert]

Hervis Tour of Austria? I don't think that was a UCI stage race when TD won it in '06...

i know he won that and georgia

what i should have said (i don't like to spend more than a minute or so on a post...and now i have to write three posts because of one sloppy one)

he won't win a major european stage race. ever. austria is a sideshow for the junior varsity. georgia is important for us cycling, but its not an important race.

tom d will never win

paris nice
criterium international
basque country
romandy
dauphine
switzerland

basically, these are the smaller stage races that matter for a guy with td's experience and salary. winning georgia is like winning the route du sud.

and flux would still muderize him in cross

[93legendti]

i know he won that and georgia

what i should have said (i don't like to spend more than a minute or so on a post...and now i have to write three posts because of one sloppy one)

he won't win a major european stage race. ever. austria is a sideshow for the junior varsity. georgia is important for us cycling, but its not an important race.

tom d will never win

paris nice
criterium international
basque country
romandy
dauphine
switzerland

basically, these are the smaller stage races that matter for a guy with td's experience and salary. winning georgia is like winning the route du sud.

and flux would still muderize him in cross
OK, I won't ask about Mt. Evans. Just having fun. I love threads about TD.

[Fat Robert]

OK, I won't ask about Mt. Evans. Just having fun. I love threads about TD.


I still think he's a terrific rider

he's slipstream's best stage win threat

as a rider, he's somewhere halfway between hampsten and vaughters, which is very, very good

[Spicoli]

Dude its February!......piss on him at the end of the season if need be. The guy is American and the guy is fast, he gets my support. Maybe he's not some doped up Spaniard who can ride at there best for 12 months out of the year. Maybe its something in cycling called being specific about goals? His carreer to me resembles someone we here on the Forum are very supportive of, you know, former big euro team now racing on a domestic team? That guy too is American and very dammed fast, and he gets my support too! Does everyone have to be the next world crusher? Every pro in the world would be lucky to win anything these days. 98% of the peleton would freak to win one good race a year.

My take on it :confused:

[jhcakilmer]

i know he won that and georgia

what i should have said (i don't like to spend more than a minute or so on a post...and now i have to write three posts because of one sloppy one)

he won't win a major european stage race. ever. austria is a sideshow for the junior varsity. georgia is important for us cycling, but its not an important race.

tom d will never win

paris nice
criterium international
basque country
romandy
dauphine
switzerland

basically, these are the smaller stage races that matter for a guy with td's experience and salary. winning georgia is like winning the route du sud.

and flux would still muderize him in cross


I'd have to disagree. I think all those races would be perfect for him, if he'd focus on them, and stop worrying about the Grand Tours.....that, IMO is pointless.

The short stage races above, are just long enough to give him some climbing and a TT, but not too long, since I don't believe he's durable enough for 3 weeks of torture.

Personally, I think Romandy, and ToSwiss would be his best options. PN, and CI have a potential for cold, rainy weather, again, not his forte considering past experience.

[Dan Le foot]

I raced against him on MT Evans last year.
Well, we were in the same race.
So here I was about half way up the mountain feeling good in my 30/26 going about 7 mph when I heard a swoosh coming up from behind me. It turned out to be TD and another rider going by at about 20MPH up a 6-7% grade. Man, he can climb. But he only beat me up the mountain by about 90 minutes. :bike:
After the race TD found the time to attend the award ceremony and handed awards and spent time with the junior riders.
He doesn't suck imo. A great ahtlete with perhaps some limitations.
Dan

[Fat Robert]

I'd have to disagree. I think all those races would be perfect for him, if he'd focus on them, and stop worrying about the Grand Tours.....that, IMO is pointless.

The short stage races above, are just long enough to give him some climbing and a TT, but not too long, since I don't believe he's durable enough for 3 weeks of torture.

Personally, I think Romandy, and ToSwiss would be his best options. PN, and CI have a potential for cold, rainy weather, again, not his forte considering past experience.


i don't see him doing it -- unless he sharpens up his tactical and handling skills to a much greater degree than he has demonstrated previously. sure, those races are short, but that's also why they have a very small margin of error -- if there is only one big mountain stage, you can't be the 40th wheel at the base of the final climb....

[pdxmech13]

TD is MP
has no personality
needed to be racing as a teen
will be selling burrito's and getting fat by the end of this year.
:banana:
Vaughters shouldv'e left him in europe to suffer instead of the states

[jhcakilmer]

i don't see him doing it -- unless he sharpens up his tactical and handling skills to a much greater degree than he has demonstrated previously. sure, those races are short, but that's also why they have a very small margin of error -- if there is only one big mountain stage, you can't be the 40th wheel at the base of the final climb....


I agree, but I think he's already shown he can win these short stage races.....
Wins:
Tour of Langkawi
Tour of Georgia
Tour of Austria
Vuelta (6th, and 8th)

I'd say these result demonstrate that he can win, under the right conditions, the 2 top 10 finish especially show his ability, that's not luck!

Plus, shouldn't we give him a little credit for hanging in there. But I definitely agree he could use more confidence. There is a huge psychosomatic component to professional sports, what is usually overlooked!!

[AgilisMerlin]

holy crap you guys are harsh

[Fat Robert]

I agree, but I think he's already shown he can win these short stage races.....
Wins:
Tour of Langkawi
Tour of Georgia
Tour of Austria
Vuelta (6th, and 8th)

I'd say these result demonstrate that he can win, under the right conditions, the 2 top 10 finish especially show his ability, that's not luck!

Plus, shouldn't we give him a little credit for hanging in there. But I definitely agree he could use more confidence. There is a huge psychosomatic component to professional sports, what is usually overlooked!!


the vuelta finishes came off of time gains on mtn stages after he was out of it

georgia, austria, and langkawi don't have the same depth and level of competition as the dauphine, for example.

he has to show that he can be consistent against top-flight competition for seven days in a row, and that he can arrive at the base of the final climb as a marked man, in the first 20 wheels. until he does that, he'll be racing for stage wins.

[1centaur]

Tommy D - more an aerobic system than a warrior.

[BumbleBeeDave]

holy crap you guys are harsh

Kinda harsh. Is all this based just on him exploding in the TOC? He's not the only one who's crashed and burned in that race with a virus.

As far as palmares, lots of pro riders have long careers without ever winning any races. Does the guy still need some maturing? Sure. But considering his age and experience so far, seems to me he's doing pretty well.

AND . . . even if he does end up selling burritoes, he'll still be doing it in Durango--one of the prettiest places on earth, IMHO--and going home to his uber-hot cycling wife at the end of the day! :rolleyes: :beer:

BBD

[bostondrunk]

i'm just amazed he hasn't distinguished himself for one moment and any portion of anything uphill... i haven't seen him in the wind at all....

TD, or flux??
Lets be fair...

[Spicoli]

:D

[jerk]

TD, or flux??
Lets be fair...


somehow i doubt tom danielson is making $8000 and gets to keep his bikes to sell to people on the serotta forum....oh and one of the two is still in the race. the comparison is not fair.

most pro bike racers are delusional, selfish, pre-adolescent in terms of social development, self entitled and driven to a maniacal extent. those that are not all these things usually fail on the big stage. tom danielson exhibits none of these qualities save perhaps the pre-adolescent part- and his engine just ain't big enough to make up for it.

jerk

[bostondrunk]

...............

[jerk]

...............


no i want to mind bd-
you have a good point. why do we cheer for those we know, or the underdog and discount a guy like tom danielson who is putting in as much if not more work, probably has more inate talent and a much bigger palmares.

this is a good topic and a good question.

jerk

[Ti Designs]

But he only beat me up the mountain by about 90 minutes.


The real question is how much do we suck? His ride up Mt Washington was so much faster than mine that he could have finished, had something to eat, take a quick nap and still wait for me to finish. I could never hold it together for a 4 day stage race. None of the big teams wanted me. None of the small teams wanted me. My parents didn't really want me... Don't compare him to what others can do, compare him to what YOU can do - it changes the picture a bit...

[swoop]

don't take the question literally...
i should be that good at something.. and i'm not.

i thought it be nice to talk about the sport and not the forum itself.... and i wanted to foster the talk in the vernacular of the sports fan.

as a fan he breaks my heart. i know he's clean this year, i know he has the desire and the work ethic, and i know he can out up the numbers...
but man it never comes together for him...
it hurts.

just another fold in the sport... those guys that are genetically superior, that do the work, and yet never have it really come together....

go to the roadmagazine website and click on the video if BMC ds talking about jackson stewart mismanaging his resources... its fascinating.

[Grant McLean]

Don't compare him to what others can do, compare him to what YOU can do - it changes the picture a bit...

Or compare him to his potential...

I only judge myself based on what i feel i'm capable of.

We compare professional athletes to each other becuase
they are professionals... but even that exercise has structure.
We don't compare climbers to TT specialists, or sprinters
to Tour riders.

There are fair ways to have a discusion about their performance ...
What satisfaction is there in achievement if it's ok to fail to live
up to your goals?

-g

[swoop]

TD, or flux??
Lets be fair...



flux was the first person to turn a pedal in anger at the toc.. that's already more than td.

[Ti Designs]

I only judge myself based on what i feel i'm capable of.


And there's someone on this forum who knows Tom Danielson well enough to know where his limits lie? I don't think so. From personal experience, and based on the idea of judging yourself based on what you're capable of, I'm a total failure 99.999% of the time. The other .001% comes as a real shock, but it happens. Is that .001% what I'm capable of or were there other factors outside of my control? How much do I suck, how much of what I've done is pure luck and how much can I blame my parents?

In any case, Tom Danilelson is a pro rider. If you're reading this you're sitting at a computer. When it comes to cycling, I don't know that any of us have earned the right to say he sucks.

[swoop]

And there's someone on this forum who knows Tom Danielson well enough to know where his limits lie? I don't think so. From personal experience, and based on the idea of judging yourself based on what you're capable of, I'm a total failure 99.999% of the time. The other .001% comes as a real shock, but it happens. Is that .001% what I'm capable of or were there other factors outside of my control? How much do I suck, how much of what I've done is pure luck and how much can I blame my parents?

In any case, Tom Danilelson is a pro rider. If you're reading this you're sitting at a computer. When it comes to cycling, I don't know that any of us have earned the right to say he sucks.


that's a little too concrete for me.... a little too literal. work within the context... i assume we're all smart guys here... it just sounds like you're hunting for drama.

this is punter talk/tifosi talk about bike racing. abstracting and generalizing beyond this context seems silly if not little too earnest. enjoy.
no one here thinks he sucks.... but he does kinda suck. know what i'm sayin'..?
cmon tommy.. put it together...

[Ti Designs]

i assume we're all smart guys here...

I'm an example of disproof by counterexample!!!

[capybaras]

I'm an example of disproof by counterexample!!!

what?! You aren't a guy?

I thought I saw a photo of you once. Very convincing :banana:

[Sandy]

The real question is how much do we suck? His ride up Mt Washington was so much faster than mine that he could have finished, had something to eat, take a quick nap and still wait for me to finish. I could never hold it together for a 4 day stage race. None of the big teams wanted me. None of the small teams wanted me. My parents didn't really want me... Don't compare him to what others can do, compare him to what YOU can do - it changes the picture a bit...

A great deal. A great post.


Sandy

[dnades]

AgilisMerlin - holy crap you guys are harsh

Gotta agree with AM though.

He'll get it together. I read in Road that they are doing some type of different training regimen with him. These guys make me look fat (160 and 6') so it is no wonder that they get ill. Too much output results in depressed immune system function. I don't know how they do it. Not just TD.

Hopefully TD's new regimen will give him some better results. :beer:

[BBB]

OK, I won't ask about Mt. Evans. Just having fun. I love threads about TD.

Sure, Evans won the Tour of Austria in 2004, but there really is no comparison. Top 5 in a World Cup mtb race while still a junior compared to a US Collegiate Mtb champion. Almost winning the Giro on your first attempt compared to pulling out on your first attempt. TD is a good rider, just not a world beater.

[93legendti]

http://www.bicyclerace.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Evans

[BBB]

http://www.bicyclerace.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Evans

Whoops, mis-read your post.

Still, winning hill climbs in the US and ripping the legs off other riders in muti-day races in Europe are two different things. It's only February and TD has a good six months left this year to prove me (and others) wrong.

[swoop]

i'm just sayin' by numbers.... his engine is super alien bigger than lance big.... as a fan.. i hope he gets a chance to use it to do bad things to people on the bike.

it's one candle i'd like to see get lit.

[flux]

[QUOTE=Spicoli]Dude its February!......piss on him at the end of the season if need be. The guy is American and the guy is fast, he gets my support. Maybe he's not some doped up Spaniard who can ride at there best for 12 months out of the year. Maybe its something in cycling called being specific about goals? His carreer to me resembles someone we here on the Forum are very supportive of, you know, former big euro team now racing on a domestic team? That guy too is American and very dammed fast, and he gets my support too! Does everyone have to be the next world crusher? Every pro in the world would be lucky to win anything these days. 98% of the peleton would freak to win one good race a year.

.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE=Spicoli]Dude its February!......piss on him at the end of the season if need be. The guy is American and the guy is fast, he gets my support. Maybe he's not some doped up Spaniard who can ride at there best for 12 months out of the year. Maybe its something in cycling called being specific about goals? His carreer to me resembles someone we here on the Forum are very supportive of, you know, former big euro team now racing on a domestic team? That guy too is American and very dammed fast, and he gets my support too! Does everyone have to be the next world crusher? Every pro in the world would be lucky to win anything these days. 98% of the peleton would freak to win one good race a year.

.

Clearly your point is well made and spot on. It actually goes well beyond that- "98% of the peleton would freak to win one good race in a year." On the Serotta Forum there are probably only a very few select individual cyclists who can even relate marginally to the ability to ride at Tom Danielson's level, anytime, ever. We are discussing whether Tom Danielson sucks and for those of us who comment, we are part of a subset of cyclists whose abilities are remarkably inferior to anyone who participates in the pro peleton. The overwhelming majority of us are not in the aforementioned 98% or the remaining 2%. It seems almost ludicrous that we comment at all. The pros are at a different level of cycling- almost a different discipline of athletics.

On the other hand, swoop undoubtedly doesn't literally mean what is suggested in his posts (if I may say). I think that perhaps he sees a talent (well beyond his and almost all of us) that has not reached its maximum potential for certain reasons, and perhaps that is frustrating to swoop to see a person with such a gift not seem to maximize that potential. Perhaps his choice of words was not ideal, but I don't think there was any genuine attempt to "..piss on him....." anytime really.

Tom Danielson is a talent that few of us can relate to (you can). You know that, I know that,and so does swoop.



Sandy

[jerk]

you don't suck. he sucks; sucks burritos!

jerk

[jchasse]

I really like pro cycling, and I certainly support our homegrown guys 100% until they give us a pretty clear reason not to.

But I don't know why anyone should really get their chamois in a twist because of a little light-hearted criticism. The fact of the matter is this. My career is not made possible because the public is interested in watching me do it. If it was, I think I’d understand that when that interested public thinks I’m underperforming, there’s going to be criticism. Justified or not. If a pro athlete / politician / celebrity (or his fans) can’t get his head around that concept, maybe a desk job (where only your boss’ opinion matters) beckons. :p

[Big Daddy]

it's happening again (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/mar08/mar12news2)

[Tom Sagamore]

he's had back luck with sickness on and off

luck is what happens when opportunity meets preparation atmo

[flux]

[QUOTE=flux]

you don't suck. he sucks; sucks burritos!

jerk


Jerk,

THAT IS NOT MY QUOTE YOU POSTED OFF OF. PLEASE EDIT THAT ISH YO.

FLUX

[jerk]

[QUOTE=jerk]


Jerk,

THAT IS NOT MY QUOTE YOU POSTED OFF OF. PLEASE EDIT THAT ISH YO.

FLUX

oh- you were quoting spicoli but didn't quote it right so i thought you were saying that 'ish yo. i thought you had an oh my god moment at a chipotles or some shi'ite.....anyway- that's sr. ferretti giving you the thumbs up because he knows that you hate burritos.

jerk

[flux]

[QUOTE=flux]

oh- you were quoting spicoli but didn't quote it right so i thought you were saying that 'ish yo. i thought you had an oh my god moment at a chipotles or some shi'ite.....anyway- that's sr. ferretti giving you the thumbs up because he knows that you hate burritos.

jerk

Is giving me the thumbs up cuz of my pre B-Stay C40.

[swoop]

it's happening again (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/mar08/mar12news2)


we have a ball imitator? oy vey.. love it, very funny!

[stevep]

where'd this come from.
danielson has bike handling issues...which lets him out of the mad classics/ kermesses cause he cant get by boonen and his thugs who would knock him over the barriers and into a recycling can.
his motor is good but he seems to lack the head to take advantage other than some good rides here and there.

i thk there is mental fragility there which brings on sickness frequently.

my guess. he doesnt like doing it but he kinda has to.

in my mind the body is 50%
the head is 50%
and thats the way it is.
he's a few points off in the head portion

[Longdaddy]

name a stage race he's stayed healthy through....
(and remember this aint personal... its just sports talk)

2005 Vuelta De Espania, Stage winner
2003 Tour de Langkawi, 1st place GC
Top 20 finish at the Tour of Romandie.
2005 Tour de Georgia, 1st place, GC
Tour of Qinghai Lake, stage winner, ITT


I still had to laugh when I first read the thread. Always seems like he is sick/broken, etc.

A fragile rider if there ever was one....

[swoop]

i hope the kid pulls it together. i've had that injury.. it just turns your legs off...

i'll bet having all that talent and not getting to have it come together is a freaking trying thing.

[Fat Robert]

disks suck, atmo

very painful

legs take a while to come back imho

[stevep]

of course yr right...but when at the start you are touted as having more watts than anyone else, highest reading, etc ever... then guys like us wanna see the big tours.
somewhat foolish but true.
fabulous talent compared to any of us...but...
he's not hincapie, armstrong, hamilton, lemond, hampsten, etc , etc.
he also holds the mt washington hill climb record... notable achievement as well


2005 Vuelta De Espania, Stage winner
2003 Tour de Langkawi, 1st place GC
Top 20 finish at the Tour of Romandie.
2005 Tour de Georgia, 1st place, GC
Tour of Qinghai Lake, stage winner, ITT


I still had to laugh when I first read the thread. Always seems like he is sick/broken, etc.

A fragile rider if there ever was one....