OT - CD rippers - Mp3 encoding...

[Dekonick]

What are you using?

I am in the process of ripping my CD collection from the last 30 years...

Advice?

What do you use?

At present I am using mediamonkey.... but am open to suggestions.

[Grant McLean]

iTunes?

somebody must have heard of them... :)

at 256 bit rate, it's pretty much the same audio quality as the cd.

-g

[Dekonick]

Yeah - but they have the DRM issues - I want to be able tu use my mp3's on more than just one Ipod - ie my laptop (at work), my desktop (my office) the media pc (family room) you get the idea....

[11.4]

Many many choices: What really counts is the specific protocol you choose to use.

First thing to remember is that disc storage is very cheap these days.
Second thing to remember is that you will spend a LOT of time ripping all your CDs.

The solution is to rip at as high a level as possible. I'd actually recommend using Apple Lossless. This takes a 650-750 MB CD down to about 220-240 MB and does not remove even the slightest amount of audio quality available. Every iPod except the Shuffle will read Apple Lossless -- it just fills them up faster. However, you can choose an option in iTunes to re-save your Lossless files at a lower resolution for use on an iPod, without losing your original Lossless file.

Apple Lossless isn't the only lossless protocol, just the best supported at this point. With iPods owning 80% of the market and iTunes owning 90+% of the market for downloads, unless you simply want to be ornery it makes sense to go with the flow. There will always be support for this protocol. If you download iTunes (you can download it from the Apple website in versions either for Mac or Windows), it will rip CDs to Apple Lossless and has superb features. For anything it doesn't provide, such as synchronizing multiple libraries, there are oodles of aftermarket products (check Smith Micro's Tune Ranger -- $19 for all kinds of additional functionality).

One last thing: Once you've gone to all this work, have another external hard drive around to back up your music library onto. I'm at about 850 MB, all from CDs, and certainly don't want to have anything crash and lose it all. Don't even bother archiving to CDs or DVDs -- the capacities are so great it'll take forever. Buy a big spare external hard drive to store your music on (I'm assuming from what you've said that you have quite a bit to save) and then a second to back it up on.

Oh and also: iTunes will also manage all your YouTube videos. You may laugh, but there's a ton of good stuff there -- including lots of amazing cycling archives such as old Japanese keirin, world track championships from the 70s and 80s, big crashes, etc. etc. A number of free or nearly-free programs will save YouTube videos as files on your computer (I use TubeSock). When you load your iPod, you can opt to load all these videos as well. Same for all your still images you may have saved -- bike equipment, whatever.

Still one more suggestion: When you rip your CDs the software will automatically retrieve track names, album name, artists, etc. from www.gracenote.com. The only problem is that the data were recorded very inconsistently -- it might just be a matter of some CDs alphabetized as "Thelonious Monk" and others as "Monk, Thelonious" and others as "Thelonious Monk quartet". If you have a lot of classical music, some of it was obviously logged onto GraceNote by someone who didn't have a clue -- the composer is listed as the artist, an opera name is used as the name of each song, you name it. You can bring up CD info and choose alternative GraceNote track names to find something that might be more accurate, and you can also enter your own data directly from the album. It's a real pain, but if you have a lot of music and you end up with a music library that's chaos, you won't be happy with the result.

[11.4]

Yeah - but they have the DRM issues - I want to be able tu use my mp3's on more than just one Ipod - ie my laptop (at work), my desktop (my office) the media pc (family room) you get the idea....

If you rip your own CDs, there are no DRM problems. It's only if you've bought a tune from iTunes that you run into DRMs, and nowadays Apple is moving to open use anyway. I don't like the downloads anyway because the resolution isn't as good. If you want to play your files through a good stereo system, they sound pretty poor. Figure out which of your friends have good CD collections, borrow them (and offer them a ripped file for their own use), and you can amass a huge library without restrictions. Sounds like the OP has a big collection of his own already, which means he already has the necessary rights to the music.

[dannyg1]

If the ultimate in quality is the goal then Exact Audio Copy is the program you should be using. I use it along with WinAmp for cataloging. That said, iTunes is a much easier to use interface and probably a better 'real world' solution, especially fo someone just starting to do this.

Danny

[Grant McLean]

Yeah - but they have the DRM issues - I want to be able tu use my mp3's on more than just one Ipod - ie my laptop (at work), my desktop (my office) the media pc (family room) you get the idea....

It's amazing to me that people think this is true. I hear it quite often.
You can use iTunes to import your cd's in any format you want - it's not
just apples AAC format - but many MP3 bit rates and even variable bit rates.
Apple doesn't install DRM on your cd's. The record companies have DRM
on some downloads they sell, but iTunes doesn't put DRM on YOUR cd's music.


-g

[xjoex]

I have converted all 1000+ cds, and most of my lp collection.

Download iTunes from apple. Then go to:
Preferences -> Advanced -> Importing:
- Import Using MP3 Encoder
- Setting: Custom 256 (if you really want super high quality, I just use the lower 192 for a compromise of space/quality. I cannot heat the difference between the two).

There are no DRM issues, I have been playing these mp3s since 99' on so many different things.

However do yourself a favor and buy an external USB drive to make a backup of your mp3s, since you don't want to rip them all again if your hard drive dies.

-Joe

[Acotts]

Dang 11.4, you are a far more well rounded person than I previously thought. How do you know so much about bikes yet stillhave room for other things?

You must listen to Itunes while doing bike expirements.

[Ray]

You can use iTunes to import your cd's in any format you want - it's not
just apples AAC format - but many MP3 bit rates and even variable bit rates.

I'm guessing you can't rip to WMA format, can you?

-Ray

[ergott]

If you just want mp3s Real Player is fine and free.

EAC is the purest if you have the room. If you archived your CD with that you might as well throw out the CDs when you are done (be sure to have a backup;-)

If a CD is 700mb and it's bumped down to 250mg or so then it's not the same. Compression is compression. Lossless is OK, but it's not archive quality.

[cowerd]

PC use EAC: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/
Mac use MAX: http://sbooth.org/Max/

Rip to as many formats as you desire, including FLAC.

BTW, lossless is lossless, i.e. you don't lose any audio information.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Yeah - but they have the DRM issues - I want to be able tu use my mp3's on more than just one Ipod - ie my laptop (at work), my desktop (my office) the media pc (family room) you get the idea....

DRM issues? . . . :confused:

BBD

[MarleyMon]

DRM issues? . . . :confused:

BBD
Digital Rights Management

don't ripoff musicians

[mister]

i don't really rip cds to mp3 or anything, i don't have an ipod and my cds sound better through my cd player than if the signal is run through my computer and through that audio card (too much bass emphasis so i have to screw around with the EQ on the computer).

i did used to do a vast amount of downloading and trading of live recordings. all those guys use a lossless format such as .shn or .flac, it is not as compressed as mp3 but it is better quality. and yes, i did the backup thing to cds and it sucks. i just started buying extra hd's instead....now they are all just sitting around, every once in a while i'll browse through the probably 500 gigs of music and find a killer show to listen to. mingus from around '63 touring europe (with eric dolphy)...or any tom waits so long as the sound is decent...

and yes, exact audio copy is a good program for ripping...

[sc53]

If you are going to spend the time ripping your CD collection please do as 11.4 suggested and use lossless compression rather than 192 or 256 kb MP3 level encoding. You CAN hear the difference in a decent quality stereo system, although probably not if all you do is listen to the songs on an iPod through earbuds. But if you ever plan to plug your iPod into your stereo, you will be glad you ripped at the higher quality lossless format, either Apple Lossless or FLAC.
I learned the hard way.

[11.4]

If you just want mp3s Real Player is fine and free.

EAC is the purest if you have the room. If you archived your CD with that you might as well throw out the CDs when you are done (be sure to have a backup;-)

If a CD is 700mb and it's bumped down to 250mg or so then it's not the same. Compression is compression. Lossless is OK, but it's not archive quality.

Compression is compression, but lossless is still lossless. You can take an Apple Lossless file and return to a CD format that is bit for bit identical to the original. All it does is take out all the empty space in the CD format, but it codes where the empty space is so you can put it right back in if you're so inclined.

For those who buy foreign CDs or buy American ones and can't get them to run on equipment from the other side of the water, this is a way to eliminate the regional encoding on the raw CD file. You need the right hardware to play the foreign CD once so you can rip it, but when you restore it it restores to whatever CD writer you choose to use.

[paczki]

If you are going to spend the time ripping your CD collection please do as 11.4 suggested and use lossless compression rather than 192 or 256 kb MP3 level encoding. You CAN hear the difference in a decent quality stereo system, although probably not if all you do is listen to the songs on an iPod through earbuds. But if you ever plan to plug your iPod into your stereo, you will be glad you ripped at the higher quality lossless format, either Apple Lossless or FLAC.
I learned the hard way.


You can actually hear the difference, noticeably, even through earbuds on an IPod. I used to hate listening to my Ipod, then I started only uploading files in AAC and now enjoy listening to it. Friends don't let friends listen to MP3s. :banana:

[mister]

and mp3's suffer from generation loss.

come to think of it, i need to fgure out why my turntable has a dirty channel too...

[Grant McLean]

come to think of it, i need to fgure out why my turntable has a dirty channel too...

The huge irony is that I find my CD's obsolete, and my LP's are the best source material.
I've stopped buying CD's, i'd rather own the vinyl to listen to at home,
and make a compressed digital copy for portable use. Lots of old stuff
being reissued on vinyl, and new releases coming too.

There is no way to make digital music sound as good as vinyl on a good 2 channel
hi fi for the real audiophiles. The 200 gram Nick Drake reissues are stunning.

-g

[11.4]

The huge irony is that I find my CD's obsolete, and my LP's are the best source material.
I've stopped buying CD's, i'd rather own the vinyl to listen to at home,
and make a compressed digital copy for portable use. Lots of old stuff
being reissued on vinyl, and new releases coming too.

There is no way to make digital music sound as good as vinyl on a good 2 channel
hi fi for the real audiophiles. The 200 gram Nick Drake reissues are stunning.

-g

There's some superb hardware (and software) for digitizing LPs. They're quite impressive and actually draw more from an LP into a digitized file than you can get from the best CDs. At least as a way to archive that LP sound, they're worth it if you have the interest. If you have a good turntable, an A/D converter isn't expensive if it supports a good codec. Your turntable determines the quality of the input, and the conversion software is what determines the quality of the digital conversion. I handled about 450 LPs this way, and when we did comparison tests playing the files back into a couple different high-end setups (low-end was antique Macintosh tube amps with Martin Logan SL-2's), most people were wrong as often as they were right in identifying the original LP versus the digitized version.

[davids]

I'm just wondering why you guys are bothering going from analog to digital. Independent of the sound quality, it seems like an awful lot of work to copy music from one obsolete medium to another that's on its way to becoming obsolete. I'd rather just leave my vinyl alone.

Likewise, I've owned the same turntable for over 10 years (a VPI Jr. with a Rega RB300 tonearm and a variety of decent Grado cartridges). In the same time, I've gone through three CD players (all delivering a digital stream to a Enlightened Audio Design DAC), and my local experts are telling me not to bother fixing them, they're disposable.

I think I get the CD to lossless MP3 thing - The convenience of having all your music indexed and available in a database would be kinda cool. Until the next new standard comes along...

Hey, I did ditch my cassettes!

[dannyg1]

I don't know bro... Sounds like you've been reading alot of Fremer. I've heard the best of this stuff that's possible, including Fremer's own, multiple times, and I can tell you that the converted stuff is interesting but it's not 'all that's on the vinyl'.

If you're really (curiously) sure about this, I can do a test on a Clearaudio master reference, fed into a Meitner DAC and out from that to a Nagra HD recorder. Can't imagine that there's a better chain existant in the world, but hey, I don't know every DAC there is! On second thought, can't remember if the Nagra recorder is native PCM.

Can't be, can it?

Who gets to be the judge?

Danny

There's some superb hardware (and software) for digitizing LPs. They're quite impressive and actually draw more from an LP into a digitized file than you can get from the best CDs. At least as a way to archive that LP sound, they're worth it if you have the interest. If you have a good turntable, an A/D converter isn't expensive if it supports a good codec. Your turntable determines the quality of the input, and the conversion software is what determines the quality of the digital conversion. I handled about 450 LPs this way, and when we did comparison tests playing the files back into a couple different high-end setups (low-end was antique Macintosh tube amps with Martin Logan SL-2's), most people were wrong as often as they were right in identifying the original LP versus the digitized version.

[Grant McLean]

There's some superb hardware (and software) for digitizing LPs. They're quite impressive and actually draw more from an LP into a digitized file than you can get from the best CDs. At least as a way to archive that LP sound, they're worth it if you have the interest. If you have a good turntable, an A/D converter isn't expensive if it supports a good codec. Your turntable determines the quality of the input, and the conversion software is what determines the quality of the digital conversion. I handled about 450 LPs this way, and when we did comparison tests playing the files back into a couple different high-end setups (low-end was antique Macintosh tube amps with Martin Logan SL-2's), most people were wrong as often as they were right in identifying the original LP versus the digitized version.

Oh, you know what, I didn't really word my post well.

I meant starting with a CD, and importing into the hard drive. I'm totally in agreement on the LP.
(that's what i meant by CD's being obsolete)

I've got some great results from importing LP's - better results than the CD source.

-g

[Grant McLean]

I'm just wondering why you guys are bothering going from analog to digital. Independent of the sound quality, it seems like an awful lot of work to copy music from one obsolete medium to another that's on its way to becoming obsolete. I'd rather just leave my vinyl alone.

Likewise, I've owned the same turntable for over 10 years (a VPI Jr. with a Rega RB300 tonearm and a variety of decent Grado cartridges). In the same time, I've gone through three CD players (all delivering a digital stream to a Enlightened Audio Design DAC), and my local experts are telling me not to bother fixing them, they're disposable.

I think I get the CD to lossless MP3 thing - The convenience of having all your music indexed and available in a database would be kinda cool. Until the next new standard comes along...

Hey, I did ditch my cassettes!

I can't keep my Rega from skipping offroad... it's not bad on the pavement,
so my next bike will have a turntable rack. Should it go on the front or the rear?

-g

[paczki]

I used to be a big turntable-ista. Ever since going to a digital amp I don't have any desire to listen to my turntable any more. Anyone want to buy a VPI with a TNT platter, Kuzma arm, Grado woodie cartridge, etc. cheap! Will trade for bike parts!

[Grant McLean]

I'm just wondering why you guys are bothering going from analog to digital.

I guess because it's free. Better than buying you library all over again on CD.
To go mobile, ripping your LP's makes sense.

Now let's see what happens with blue ray... do i really need
a high def version of all the content i already own? I guess Viper is going
to have to buy the Miami Vice blue ray box set, but i mean, come on, how
much content is worth buying again every time there is an 'upgrade'...

-g

[Frankwurst]

There's some superb hardware (and software) for digitizing LPs. They're quite impressive and actually draw more from an LP into a digitized file than you can get from the best CDs. At least as a way to archive that LP sound, they're worth it if you have the interest. If you have a good turntable, an A/D converter isn't expensive if it supports a good codec. Your turntable determines the quality of the input, and the conversion software is what determines the quality of the digital conversion. I handled about 450 LPs this way, and when we did comparison tests playing the files back into a couple different high-end setups (low-end was antique Macintosh tube amps with Martin Logan SL-2's), most people were wrong as often as they were right in identifying the original LP versus the digitized version.

Where do I find more info on this. I'm sitting on a boatload of nice well kept vinyl I still spin but would like to covert. :beer:

[davids]

To go mobile, ripping your LP's makes sense.

-gOK, I get that.

But as far as converting from one format to another just to have the latest and "greatest" - I remember making the decision to replace my old AR Turntable with the VPI. Let's see... Replace 1200 LPs with CDs at $15 a pop. Or spend $2k on a turntable? That was a fiscally sound purchase!

[Grant McLean]

OK, I get that.

But as far as converting from one format to another just to have the latest and "greatest" - I remember making the decision to replace my old AR Turntable with the VPI. Let's see... Replace 1200 LPs with CDs at $15 a pop. Or spend $2k on a turntable? That was a fiscally sound purchase!

we are on the same page, my friend.


-g