Will a Campagnolo Pista BB fit a Road frame?

[legacysti888]

I have an ongoing ss project and was wondering if anyone out there who has done this setup. I have a Road Frame with Eng threads and would like to install the Record Pista Crank on it. The Pista BB is 111mm wide and the standard Record road BB is only 102. Will the Pista BB fit? Will the Pista crank fit into the installed road BB? Should I worry about the offset? I have no idea how it will look either. Any help will be mucho grateful!

[Ti Designs]

1st generation Record (also known as C Record) used a 111mm bottom bracket, as did the same generation Chorus and Croce groupo. Campagnolo never made a Pista specific bottom bracket, it uses the same unit. As for the 102mm bottom bracket, the cranks woun't turn real well with the chainring digging into the chainstay.

[J.Greene]

I have an ongoing ss project and was wondering if anyone out there who has done this setup. I have a Road Frame with Eng threads and would like to install the Record Pista Crank on it. The Pista BB is 111mm wide and the standard Record road BB is only 102. Will the Pista BB fit? Will the Pista crank fit into the installed road BB? Should I worry about the offset? I have no idea how it will look either. Any help will be mucho grateful!

A sheldon brown question.....

The pista BB will fit in the frame, and the pista crank will fit with the road bb too. The Pista BB and Piasta crank were made to give you good chainline on a 120mm spaced rear end. If you deviate from that, the chainline will be less than perfect. I suspect but have no evidence that a 102mm bb and the Pista crank mated to a modern bike with a 130mm rear may not work as well as it should. The more your chainline is less than perfect the more important to use chanrings that the chain does not want to climb off of. I'd use the parts that go together.

JG

[J.Greene]

Campagnolo never made a Pista specific bottom bracket

The later version using cartridge bearings is a specific bb IIRC.

JG

[Ti Designs]

The pista BB will fit in the frame, and the pista crank will fit with the road bb too. The Pista BB and Piasta crank were made to give you good chainline on a 120mm spaced rear end. If you deviate from that, the chainline will be less than perfect. I suspect but have no evidence that a 102mm bb and the Pista crank mated to a modern bike with a 130mm rear may not work as well as it should. The more your chainline is less than perfect the more important to use chanrings that the chain does not want to climb off of. I'd use the parts that go together.


Spacing is measured from the centerline of the bike, not the dropout faces. If the spacing of the chainring is the same as the spacing of the cog you've got it right. If you take a 120mm track hub and add 5mm of spacing to both sides you haven't changed the spacing.

When did fixed gears become rocket science???

[J.Greene]

When did fixed gears become rocket science???

***?

JG

[legacysti888]

Apologies for my limited knowledge on track stuff, but this is the crank I would like to use for my road frame. Does this mean I can use the current record road 102mm bb on this crank or... will the 46/48T chainring bite intot the chainstays? The tech info just posted kinda flew by over my head.

I am aware of the 120mm spacing and all so I thought I'd use the Eno Hub for this build. That will help with the best chain alignment, yes?

[J.Greene]

Apologies for my limited knowledge on track stuff, but this is the crank I would like to use for my road frame. Does this mean I can use the current record road 102mm bb on this crank or... will the 46/48T chainring bite intot the chainstays? The tech info just posted kinda flew by over my head.

I am aware of the 120mm spacing and all so I thought I'd use the Eno Hub for this build. That will help with the best chain alignment, yes?

It might work, but be safe and use the 111mm bb.

JG

[legacysti888]

JG, do you mean that I can install the 111mm BB into my road frame fine? Will it increase the spacing between the frame and the crank? Will the cups fit into the frame or wil it stick out as well? Or is the 111mm just the length of the shaft(? brainfart!)

[J.Greene]

JG, do you mean that I can install the 111mm BB into my road frame fine? Will it increase the spacing between the frame and the crank? Will the cups fit into the frame or wil it stick out as well? Or is the 111mm just the length of the shaft(? brainfart!)

It will fit the BB just fine, it's spindle length that is measured. That BB and crank together is designed to give you the right(safe) chainline.

JG

[legacysti888]

Awesome! Crap. That means I have to buy the 111mm BB too. No chance of using the 102 one, huh, JB?

[93LegendTG]

You will need the 111mm bb; the 102mm will throw the chainring 4.5mm closer, if not against, the chain stay. The Pista BB lacks some seals found in Campy's road bottom brackets. It will fit a road frame just fine, so if you have one, use it. Many C- Record users went this way when Campy only offered the Veloce unit. The 111mm Centaur would be a good way to go if you need to buy a new bb.

[Grant McLean]

JG, do you mean that I can install the 111mm BB into my road frame fine? Will it increase the spacing between the frame and the crank? Will the cups fit into the frame or wil it stick out as well? Or is the 111mm just the length of the shaft(? brainfart!)

Forget about what frame it's going in...
The campy Pista crank is matched for spacing with a pista bb.....
doesn't care one bit what frame it's installed in...road/track/mtn, whatever.

The current campy pista crank needs a symmetrical 111mm bb axle.
The road 102mm bb is too short... the chainring would smash into the chainstay.


Also, the track bb is not the same as a road bb.
The track axle is the same spacing on both left and right.
There are campy road bb's that are also 111mm, but these are asymetrical,
so these do not work with the pista cranks because the road bb is longer on
the right side than the left, it's therefore not correctly spaced for the Pista
crank.

-g

[Ti Designs]

***?


Sorry. As a mechanic I learned to get an understanding of things like threading and spacing before I took out the wrenches or credit card. Things like chain line on fixed gears is pretty easy to graps once you figure out that it's all based on offset from the centerline of the bike. The right bottom bracket puts the crank at a certain point, the crank puts the chainring at the right offset, the hub puts the cog at the same offset. Given the right parts pick you just throw the parts on and it all works. If you're running a 130 back end you keep it all centered by adding 5mm on each side - nothing hard to grasp there. As for the bottom bracket, it's english or it's italian, if you don't know which one you have a pretty good change of buying the wrong one in the first place and it's never gonna work. Dare I go into which direction the fixed cup turns? Anyway, I get upset at people who take something simple and ask questions that about 2 seconds of thought would eliminate the need for. My bad.


The better comment would have been to find a friend who knows how bikes go together and have them guide you in building up the bike. The second go-around with the "will the 102mm work" gave me the feeling things weren't very clear...

[Grant McLean]

. The 111mm Centaur would be a good way to go if you need to buy a new bb.

nope. doesn't have the correct spacing left and right... see above post.

-g

[legacysti888]

Again! Will try and find a 111mm BB for this then. This is awesome. Much better than Googling! I do have the seals from a spare Recod BB I can use.

[legacysti888]

Makes sense. I suppose it has to be a Campy Track BB... thanks again for clarification!

[Grant McLean]

Makes sense. I suppose it has to be a Campy Track BB... thanks again for clarification!


here's photos.

You can see the left side is longer than you'd find on the road bb,
and the right side is shorter. The Pista arms are basically straight,
unlike the road arms which flare out from the bb. that's why the road
bb axle is shorter.

-g

[J.Greene]

.

[legacysti888]

Very clear. I didn't think about the crank arms being straight for Track. Mahalo! You know, I have asked a few 'expert' mechanics about this question and they couldn't give me an affirmative answer like you people have. And TWO of them said you CAN USE the road one for the Pista crank without any offset issues. Bloody hell.

[Grant McLean]

Very clear. I didn't think about the crank arms being straight for Track. Mahalo! You know, I have asked a few 'expert' mechanics about this question and they couldn't give me an affirmative answer like you people have. And TWO of them said you CAN USE the road one for the Pista crank without any offset issues. Bloody hell.

I take paypal... :banana: just kidding...

I've figured out most of this stuff the hard way...
The other option is the Phil Wood BB, just make sure you get
the right one. The nice thing about the Phil... besides the great
bearing quality... is that it's adjustable chainline a few few mm's
because there is no "fixed" cup, so you can tweak your chainline
to the rear cog for perfect alignment.



-g

[legacysti888]

Which Phil Wood BB will you recommend for this setup? There are a couple of 111mm symetrical ones available in Ti. Thanks!

[Grant McLean]

Which Phil Wood BB will you recommend for this setup? There are a couple of 111mm symetrical ones available in Ti. Thanks!

that's right... 111mm symmetrical is the ticket.
you'll need the install tools, or a shop that has
them to thread in the cups.

-g

[regularguy412]

Which Phil Wood BB will you recommend for this setup? There are a couple of 111mm symetrical ones available in Ti. Thanks!

You really can't go wrong with any 111mm Phil BB. It's just how light you want your BB vs. how light you want your pocketbook.

+1 on the knowledge available on this board. I'm consistently pleased and amazed.

Mike in AR

[legacysti888]

Quick question: Is the Phil BB better than Campy's? I suppose that's not really a quick question, huh? I think if engineers like Phil believe they can build a better BB than what's available, it must better, no? Or are both BBs created for different target markets?I ask this with all due respect to both companies and no offense to anyone.

[regularguy412]

Quick question: Is the Phil BB better than Campy's? I suppose that's not really a quick question, huh? I think if engineers like Phil believe they can build a better BB than what's available, it must better, no? Or are both BBs created for different target markets?I ask this with all due respect to both companies and no offense to anyone.

I've never ridden Campy, so I can't compare. However when I built up my CSI the first time, I put a regular, Phil steel BB in it. It lived for over 30,000 miles before it needed the bearings replaced. I sent it back to Phil. Three weeks later it came back with fresh bearings. Repair cost including shipping was about $38.00. The Phil bearings are super smooth. The ability to adjust the chainline ( within about 5 mm limit ) is an advantage, as well.

MIke in AR

[DRZRM]

My feeling is that you can never go wrong with a Phil Wood, they are more adjustable, they are truly bomb-proof, and if you look on ebay, you'll see there a safer investment that gold, they often sell used very close to new prices. Look at Lickton's for good pricing, make sure you get the one with the Campy taper.

Quick question: Is the Phil BB better than Campy's? I suppose that's not really a quick question, huh? I think if engineers like Phil believe they can build a better BB than what's available, it must better, no? Or are both BBs created for different target markets?I ask this with all due respect to both companies and no offense to anyone.

[Grant McLean]

Quick question: Is the Phil BB better than Campy's?

on the street, yes the Phil is better sealed.

-g

[Dekonick]

Awesome! Crap. That means I have to buy the 111mm BB too. No chance of using the 102 one, huh, JB?

Ill take your 102mm BB :D

:beer:

[legacysti888]

Dang.. never in my wildest dreams have I come across a resource so rich in opinions, knowledge and experience! thanks everyone! :beer:

[93LegendTG]

nope. doesn't have the correct spacing left and right... see above post.

-g
Sorry, the Centaur 111m bb is symmetrical! The Record and Chorus 111's are the ones that are not, as they are designed for triples.