is cervelo everyone's worst nightmare?

[Climb01742]

has cervelo cracked a cycling code that others haven't? meaning, high quality frames for very reasonable prices? have they married really good engineering and really good inexpensive chinese manufacturing? when i was test riding carbon frames, i was really impressed with their r2.5 frame. the build quality looked great. it rode wonderfully, it was very fast, smooth, felt like a true go fast bike. for me it didn't have enough flex, it was too stiff, but that wasn't a quality issue. and the damn thing was about half of what every other frame cost. it was inexpensive without being cheap. honestly, it rode as well as my ottrott for about $3000 less. and now the jerk points out that they build a very light steel frame for under a grand. ok, i know cervelos aren't custom. they aren't artisan frames. but as tools to ride fast, they may have cracked a code: stellar engineering with cost-effective manufacturing. they may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they have to give other, higher-priced builders a few uneasy moments.

[Elefantino]

If they can get people interested in higher-end bikes for less — quality high-end bikes — then that can only be good for the sport. Look what Trek did with OCLV.

I think people will still gravitate to high-end buyers and high-end bikes.

IMNSHO

Now I'm going to go out and ride my non-Cevelo. :banana:

[Peter]

Don't quote me on this, but perhaps maybe someone can verify:

I believe Cervelos are manufactured in Canada. The exchange rate between Canada and U.S. is very favorable, which would explain the attractive prices.

Italian frames, on the other hand, are subject to import tariffs, which increase prices.

[dbrk]

The two Cervelo guys used to be nearly right next door to Mike Barry in Toronto and they indeed had some lean, lean years, so I admire their persistence---plus they are nice fellas and there is every reason to celebrate their success. All of the bikes are made in Taiwan.

The one seattube angle notion and their fit idea is novel, I will say that. My cost/benefit self thinks they make bikes at an excellent price, no doubt. I've never had the pleasure but I'd like to give one a go, especially the steel bike.

dbrk

[bulliedawg]

Of course it's just opinion, but they're so durn ugly. Of course, I think it's great that they're delivering high performance to a lower price point. More power to them.

[Larry]

Yes.... they look really generic..... whatever!!!
I have never ridden one, but apparently it is a lot of bang for the buck.
Actually..... there frames look homely. But...... if it rides well..... fine!!

Griffen frames are a big ticket at the LBS. Anyone have experiences on a Griffen? There welds look really "splotchey".... the aesthethics are not great. But the ride is supposedly quite nice. Any opinions on Griffen??

[shinomaster]

try one of these too.

[Climb01742]

shino--is cannondale your middle name? :p

[Jeff N.]

Here on the Southern California coast I see a lot of Cervelos and the occasional Griffin. Almost without exception, they are set up TT/ Triathlon style, their riders crouched over with elbows planted on the pads, hands on the horns, max aero position, and they seem to be the overwhelming popular choice for that dicipline. I see a BUNCH of 'em! In fact, I don't think I've ever seen either brand set up in the traditional roadie style and I don't know if they're even AVAILABLE in traditional road geometry/style. Are they? Jeff N.

[tom2517]

Don't quote me on this, but perhaps maybe someone can verify:

I believe Cervelos are manufactured in Canada. The exchange rate between Canada and U.S. is very favorable, which would explain the attractive prices.

Italian frames, on the other hand, are subject to import tariffs, which increase prices.

They are made in Taiwan, "designed in Canada".

[va rider]

I think the consumer wins, when a company comes out with a quality product that is costs less than the competition. I am seeing more and more Cervelo's on the road and I am glad to see them. The more choices, the better for me.

I believe there are many quality frame producers in the US, that cost less than the high end frames. Take Jamis, for example. They build quality frames, spec out the bikes nicely and built in NJ. They build an Eclipse, with sweet steel 853 frame with cf seat and chain stays, all Ultegra and Ksyrium SSCs for under $2500.

Around the world, you find similar frame builders. Viner, Olmo. etc.

I love good choices. Don't get me wrong, I love my Serotta, but competition breeds better products at better prices.

[Climb01742]

agree. its like what toyota has done in cars. using manufacturing as a competitive weapon. consumers do win. and to answer jeff's question, cervelo does make both road and tri geometries. check out cervelo's site. some interesting info. especially their geometry philosophy. unique if nothing else.

[Dekonick]

Bianchi is now making their Veloce line in Tiwan also...

[froze]

I also agree about the competition issue concerning bikes, now if only we can get at least one more component manufacture, then maybe the competition will drive the prices down and quality up.

[dnovo]

Designed in Canda, made in Taiwan? Seems like the only things we still mass produce in this country or in other parts of the 'civilized world' (and Canada counts as that to me and one or two other people who don't follow hockey or drink Molson) are our kids. Of course, perhaps if we outsourced production of those too . . . nah, still need something to do when it is too bad outside to bike, boat, or shoot sporting clays. Dave N.

[Redturbo]

I thought I read a post by Gerald Vroomen (one of the owner of Cervelo) on the slowtwitch forum that the P3 was made in the US.

turbo

[shaq-d]

Designed in Canda, made in Taiwan? Seems like the only things we still mass produce in this country or in other parts of the 'civilized world' (and Canada counts as that to me and one or two other people who don't follow hockey or drink Molson) are our kids. Of course, perhaps if we outsourced production of those too . . . nah, still need something to do when it is too bad outside to bike, boat, or shoot sporting clays. Dave N.

maple syrup! is in fact made in canada :)

our home and native land...
sd

[Kevin]

Designed in Canda, made in Taiwan? Seems like the only things we still mass produce in this country or in other parts of the 'civilized world' (and Canada counts as that to me and one or two other people who don't follow hockey or drink Molson) are our kids. Of course, perhaps if we outsourced production of those too . . . nah, still need something to do when it is too bad outside to bike, boat, or shoot sporting clays. Dave N.

DaveN,

The last time I checked we still "made" litigation in this country. :bike:

Kevin

[zap]

I thought the carbon cervelo is made in China. But whatever, if you look really hard, you can purchase a no name frameset for less but otherwise identical to Cervelo's carbon frame.

Sooner or later, companies will learn not to outsource to firms in countries that don't have solid laws or the ability to enforce them.

Hmmm, Jamis. Just a marketing firm in NJ. They build nothing here and most likely don't have a design team here either.

[jerk]

zap-
are you implying that a single party totalitarian state with the largest standing army, police force and internal intelligence department in the world isn't able to enforce laws? because they definatly can and do. but then again the atom bomb is a just a tool the paper tiger imperialist running dogs use to scare people.....
anyway, one cannot buy cervelo's frame from anyone other than cervelo. the factory they work with has an exclusive arrangment with them. this is not to say that you couldn't ship a c-50 to any number of chinese firms and have them produce a pretty good knock off.
jerk

[zap]

Counterfeiting is rampant in China. Exclusive agreements are useless unless enforced or when local laws are not understood. Just ask Pfizer, Siemens, Philips, etc.

Regarding Cervelo, just repeating what Cervelo themselves have stated.

[big D]

That was with the first year of production on the carbon Cervelo's. They have now find a single supplier for their new carbon frames to control the copying. This is what Easton has had to do because they are trying to cope with producing new product in China with out counterfieting. Easton has setup their own factory in in China.

[JackL]

I think the huge and quickly growing manufacturing capacity of Mainland China is a little frightening, given their present form of government.

[J.M. White]

I believe mainland China is a far worse nightmare than Cervelo will ever be. There's nothing the Chinese can't and won't copy (probably not even maple syrup).

[tom2517]

I believe mainland China is a far worse nightmare than Cervelo will ever be. There's nothing the Chinese can't and won't copy (probably not even maple syrup).

That is true, Toyota recently sued a Chinese firm for copying their cars but the Chinese court threw the case out, needless to say Toyota is very upset at this. So in China, not only do they copy your stuff, you can't even sue them.

However, Cervelo is made in Taiwan, I've been to the factory that made them, unless Cervelo has recently found another supplier in China that I didn't know of.

[Ken Lehner]

The two Cervelo guys used to be nearly right next door to Mike Barry in Toronto and they indeed had some lean, lean years, so I admire their persistence---plus they are nice fellas and there is every reason to celebrate their success. All of the bikes are made in Taiwan.

Hmm. What, then, should I make of this from Cervelo's Web site (referring to the P2K): "Made in USA (very rare for TT/tri in this price range)", and the "Made in USA" sticker on my P2K?

[Climb01742]

Hmm. What, then, should I make of this from Cervelo's Web site (referring to the P2K): "Made in USA (very rare for TT/tri in this price range)", and the "Made in USA" sticker on my P2K?

that geography wasn't their strongsuit in school? :banana: