Lance the jerk, what a surprise

[mcteague]

http://austinist.com/2008/02/04/lance_throws_hi.php

February 4, 2008
Lance Throws Hissy Fit at La Zona Rosa

After last night's sold-out Band of Horses show at La Zona Rosa, former Austinist co-editor Matthew Odam happened to witness a precious exchange between the seven-time Tour de France champ and the door guy at the Backstage Bar. Armstrong, evidently operating under the notion that he was exempt from pesky TABC laws, attempted to leave the club with drink in hand. When Sean Higgins, the door man, stopped him, Armstrong quickly morphed from that affable fellow gazing peacefully out from the cover of this month's Texas Monthly to some deranged celebutante:
He returned to the door, full of sound and fury. Higgins, who has worked at the Backstage Bar for four-and-a-half years, made it quite clear that he had no interest in Armstrong’s celebrity or defense of his actions. Armstrong, not willing to drop the issue, flailingly tried to retake whatever sense of pride he apparently felt was taken from him, by berating Higgins while his friends stood at his side. With a finger that came inches from Higgins’ face, Armstrong, according to Higgins, let loose a series of threats that concluded with the time-worn threat of “You’ll never work at this bar again.”

Higgins, who apparently didn’t get the memo that nobody puts Lance in the corner, scoffed at the irate Armstrong, who then left to a series of under-breath cat calls and one patron labeling Armstrong as overrated (the cleanest of the insults softly launched his way.)

Neither Higgins nor those in the bar were impressed by Armstrong's antics. "Overrated," indeed.

Tim McTeague

[Dekonick]

That takes a lot of ball.

[aLexis]

Below is where the original author explains a little further.....


A note of clarification: Although I thought I made the point clear already, I will say that I think Armstrong’s aggravation came from the way he felt he was treated, not that he was a star who was not getting special treatment. It is (and was) his right to express displeasure, it was the manner in which he did it that drew the attention.

UPDATE - Lance Armstrong responds


I recently got off the phone with a friendly and apologetic Armstrong, who called to discuss the events of last night. Much to my last point of clarification, Armstrong says that he was mostly shocked by the way in which Higgins originally approached him. Armstrong was also contrite and admitted he was in the wrong for the way in which he overreacted.

“Listen, I was totally out of line,” Armstrong said.

Although Armstrong says he was in the wrong, he felt that the door man in question could have handled the situation better, as well. “You know, give us a warning. He walked over and nearly tackled us as if he had warned us four or five times. He was so aggressive without any warning. Believe me, man, if somebody says, ‘You can not take these beers out of here,’ I’ll just throw them away or go back inside. I’ve got no problem with that. I wasn’t looking for any special rules or treatment.”

Armstrong confessed that despite feeling he wasn’t given any warning before being confronted, he should have responded differently. “I don’t need to do that (respond the way he did), though. Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

[Lazy Bill]

here is that link

http://www.austin360.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mo/entries/2008/02/04/lance_armstrong_loses_his_cool.html

[Louis]

Someone, please remind me why I'm supposed to care about this...

[SWorks4me]

Someone, please remind me why I'm supposed to care about this...


It's LA!!! L-freaking-A!!!

The American who introduced a whole cycling generation to NOT understanding the history and mystique of cycling. Who else would have launched a brand, latter to watch it fall and end up with a surplus of carbon.Who else would say "it's okay to wear rubber wrist bands"

Who else asks the question.."I'm on my bike 8 hours a day...what are you on"

L- freaking- A....that's why you care!

:D

[Jeff N.]

It's LA!!! L-freaking-A!!!

The American who introduced a whole cycling generation to NOT understanding the history and mystique of cycling. Who else would have launched a brand, latter to watch it fall and end up with a surplus of carbon.Who else would say "it's okay to wear rubber wrist bands"

Who else asks the question.."I'm on my bike 8 hours a day...what are you on"

L- freaking- A....that's why you care!

:DStill, on my list of 300 items I care about in life, he's about 299. Jeff N.

[david]

i've heard all the stories about what a richard lance can be.

but i've also had my share of experiences with power-hungry doormen, security guards, cops, etc, etc who exert their authority in a way that is downright hostile.

"Backstage door man Sean Higgins, obviously not concerned with the celebrity of the person who was breaking the law, quickly ran over to Armstrong and his pal and rather forcefully made it clear that the guys could not walk off with drinks."

lance should not have walked out with the beers. he's admitted that. and the guy was right to intervene. but if was an ahole about it, then he got a taste of his own medicine.

[jdweld]

A dear friend of my family had been battling a reoccurance of cancer for the last five years. She was gifted with a signed bicycle by lance on the the Oprah show a few years back. She passed away last week after induring pretty much 5 yrs of chemo and other invasive procedures. When Lance heard the news, he was kind enough to call her family, to offer condolences and any help that he could. I admire Lance for that. People love it when celebritys screw up. You never about the good things they may do.

[Bill Bove]

Doormen/Bouncers have a tough job. They have to deal with all kinds of drunks, big headed putz's and evreything else. The best way for a bouncer to end a possible incident is to from the very beginning let all know that HE is the biggest, baddest... LA should have just finished his beer and left. I don't know what the law is in Austin, last time I was there Stevie Ray Vaughn was still going by Steven Vaughn and was only a local hero but here where I live evrybody knows you can't leave a bar with a drink. I'd think LA would know the local customs.

Mary Kate is old eough to get into bars :confused:

[paczki]

You can't judge people too much from how they act when they're drunk, as long as they don't attack someone. And to be fair to Lance, I don't think enough studies have been done on how residual EPO interacts with different beers to know exactly what effect it could have had on him.

[Crazy Chester]

Here's my 2 cents: LA hasn't exactly made me proud since he got off the bike. However, he has already apologized for his conduct, and it sounds like the bouncer was the problem here. How many times have you had a few drinks and then something sets you off and you overreact. I know I've done it a few more times than I care to admit to. Life is hard and people make mistakes. My guess is that it gets alot harder if you're some over-coddled superstar, so I don't envy LA's status or position. I do know this, when he was on the bike and riding his butt off, we were all up out of our chairs cheering him on and proud to be Americans. Now that he has a mis-step or two, we're all running in the opposite direction and casting judgments on the guy.

He made a mistake, he apologized. time to give the guy a break

[Len J]

Still, on my list of 300 items I care about in life, he's about 299. Jeff N.

For me he's about 499.

Meh....much todo and all.

Len

[bluto]

Here's my 2 cents: LA hasn't exactly made me proud since he got off the bike. However, he has already apologized for his conduct, and it sounds like the bouncer was the problem here. How many times have you had a few drinks and then something sets you off and you overreact. I know I've done it a few more times than I care to admit to. Life is hard and people make mistakes. My guess is that it gets alot harder if you're some over-coddled superstar, so I don't envy LA's status or position. I do know this, when he was on the bike and riding his butt off, we were all up out of our chairs cheering him on and proud to be Americans. Now that he has a mis-step or two, we're all running in the opposite direction and casting judgments on the guy.

He made a mistake, he apologized. time to give the guy a break

+1

If you don't care and he's so far down on your list why bother taking the time to read the thread, contemplate your reaction, and reply to said thread. Just move on.

The only people concerned should be Lance (regardless of who he is) and the bouncer....that's it. The rest is hearsay and fodder for idiots who have nothign better to do than gossip.

[regularguy412]

.... the bar wasn't big enough to hold both of those egos and they just ran into each other.

Mike in AR

(:beer: <- cuz there's no 'red' emote)

[brians647]

Well, let me add my conjecture then too. Most bouncers aren't there to be helpful to drunks, they're there and get paid to be tough guys. Most times, they have ego's as big as Lance's. Sometimes bigger. This guy probably found it disturbing that someone half his size could get so much attention. He saw his chance to put a 175 lb world-famous biker in his place, and he took it; and Lance fell right into the trap.

[SWorks4me]

+1

If you don't care and he's so far down on your list why bother taking the time to read the thread, contemplate your reaction, and reply to said thread. Just move on.

The only people concerned should be Lance (regardless of who he is) and the bouncer....that's it. The rest is hearsay and fodder for idiots who have nothign better to do than gossip.


pssssst, I heard that you like Lance. :p

[Fixed]

2 sides to every fight
cheers imho :beer:

[J.Greene]

2 sides to every fight
cheers imho :beer:

with a bouncer...usually one side atjgo.

JG

[maunahaole]

A bouncer has a few "musts" in his job description. One of them is to keep the bar served drinks in the bar. Violations normally mean a lot of BS for the bar owner, so the staff is under pretty strict instructions to enforce this. If LA or anyone claims ignorance to the rule about this they are stupid or a liar. Having been in the role of bouncer in a past life, I can assure you that the folks that think that they are exempt from this are ordinarily a-holes. I'm on the bouncer's side on this...put your drink down if you want to leave...

[AgilisMerlin]

who walks out of a bar with a drink.................

come on

live wrong............http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KTA086GFL._SS500_.jpg

[fiamme red]

who walks out of a bar with a drink.................

come on

live wrong............LIVEDRUNK©™®.

[AgilisMerlin]

http://www.arcmktg.com/images/Star_LIVEWRONG_Black_is_the_new_yellow2.jpg


snipped:

Finally, a bracelet that reflects our lifestyle!
We party a little (a lot?).We eat red meat. We enjoy a beer now & then.
We take risks. We like extreme sports. We snowboard, skateboard, mountain bike, BMX, rock climb,
scuba, sky dive, paint ball; if it's extreme, we're into it.
We stay out late, get up early, work hard, play harder and we love our lifestyle.
We live on the edge and we aren't going to apologize for it.
Does this mean we LIVEWRONG?
You bet it does, and we want the rest of the world to know that we are not ashamed of our lifestyle.

[Steelhead]

It's LA!!! L-freaking-A!!!

The American who introduced a whole cycling generation to NOT understanding the history and mystique of cycling. Who else would have launched a brand, latter to watch it fall and end up with a surplus of carbon.Who else would say "it's okay to wear rubber wrist bands"

Who else asks the question.."I'm on my bike 8 hours a day...what are you on"

L- freaking- A....that's why you care!

:D

What brand did Lance launch?

[SoCalSteve]

2 sides to every fight
cheers imho :beer:

Actually, there are 3 sides to every fight:

Lance

the Bouncer

and the TRUTH

Just sayin'

Steve

[capybaras]

I bet Lance is cute when he's drunk :banana:

[mcteague]

Someone, please remind me why I'm supposed to care about this...
Well, you cared enough to read the post and reply to it. You may be fooling yourself but not the rest of us.

Have you actually read most of the posts on this forum? Few are really about the important things in life (other than bikes of course), most are just fun.

Tim McTeague

[capybaras]

I bet he is cute when he's mad too :banana:

[MilanoTom]

I bet he is cute when he's mad too :banana:

Send him a copy of your post; maybe he'll send you some used bibs.

[Frankwurst]

Ahhh! The ability to drink with Panache. Some have it some don't. :beer:

[WadePatton]

Ahhh! The ability to drink with Panache. Some have it some don't. :beer:
Who is Panache?

Is she cute? :banana:

How much ability does one need to drink with this Panache? :beer:

[11.4]

Someone, please remind me why I'm supposed to care about this...

He might be dating your daughter.

[capybaras]

Send him a copy of your post; maybe he'll send you some used bibs.

I wanted the used bibs for another reason.

I think Lance wears regular pants now anyway. But thanks for trying to help. People on the Serotta Forum are so nice! :banana: :banana:

[capybaras]

[QUOTE=AgilisMerlin]who walks out of a bar with a drink.................

It was in Texas, right?

[Viper]

I will be the solo cat who thinks Lance is pretty cool. I gotta admit it, I don't have a beef with the dude. In fact, truth be told, while I don't own/wear Lance Under Roos, I think he's all right. I don't hate the haters, I understand the Lance bashing that will take place forever, I hear ya.

[MarleyMon]

I saw Joe Ely at La Zona Rosa and they serve some strong drinks, I tell ya.

[handsomerob]

who walks out of a bar with a drink.................

come on

live wrong............http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KTA086GFL._SS500_.jpg


everyone on Beale St. in Memphis, TN....

They also serve until 5am on the weekends.


Bouncers are bouncers because they like to bounce. Same complex as the police. If they don't start that way, it only takes time. If the bouncer was disrespectful and acted beyond what was necessary, I would completely understand the reaction.

[handsomerob]

Who is Panache?

Is she cute? :banana:

How much ability does one need to drink with this Panache? :beer:

I think she's a Spice Girl.

[Wayne]

Who is Panache?

Is she cute? :banana:

How much ability does one need to drink with this Panache? :beer:

apparently the fact that you don't know who Panache is indicates that you have already had a frontal Lobotomy!

[John13]

I had my Panache taken out when I was 6, want to see the scar?

[Louis]

As much as I appreciate the good will and publicity Lance has generated for the American cycling world,

1) I really don't care a whole lot about his private life (who he's dating, how much she looks like his mother),

2) It's time for a new generation of (clean) American cyclists to come to the fore, and

3) Honestly, it would be more interesting to hear that dbrk and the Jerk got into a knock-down, drag out argument about the correct stem length on a Hérse.

[capybaras]

3) Honestly, it would be more interesting to hear that dbrk and the Jerk got into a knock-down, drag out argument about the correct stem length on a Hérse.
that one is easy: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=dbrk&word2=Jerk

[MilanoTom]

I wanted the used bibs for another reason.

I think Lance wears regular pants now anyway. But thanks for trying to help. People on the Serotta Forum are so nice! :banana: :banana:

People on the forum are sharp, too.

Great comeback.
Tom

[capybaras]

:beer:

[CaptStash]

OK Here I go making trouble. Look, not m,any clebrity types would apologize and say they were out of line like L.A. did. In my book he is one of the good guys. I admittedly have a lot of relaitives in "the business" as they like to call the Hollywood horror show. I know about celebrities. I KNOW celebrities. I DON'T LIKE celebrities. Lacnce Armstoeng is far more real than regular celebrities.

What Armstrong has done with his Livestrong Foundation is amazing. I have several friends who are cancer survivors who have benefitted from the what he LiveStrong Foundation has to offer. That's why I will remain a Lance Armstrong and a LiveStrong supporter. He has put his money where his mouth is. And I will unashamendly continue to ride LiveStrong rides and raise money for his foundatiuon. So there!

CaptStash....

[rwsaunders]

Ahhh! The ability to drink with Panache. Some have it some don't. :beer:

I haven't seen the photos of him drinking with Panache. I thought that is was Mary Kate Olsen? :cool:

[SoCalSteve]

OK Here I go making trouble. Look, not m,any clebrity types would apologize and say they were out of line like L.A. did. In my book he is one of the good guys. I admittedly have a lot of relaitives in "the business" as they like to call the Hollywood horror show. I know about celebrities. I KNOW celebrities. I DON'T LIKE celebrities. Lacnce Armstoeng is far more real than regular celebrities.

What Armstrong has done with his Livestrong Foundation is amazing. I have several friends who are cancer survivors who have benefitted from the what he LiveStrong Foundation has to offer. That's why I will remain a Lance Armstrong and a LiveStrong supporter. He has put his money where his mouth is. And I will unashamendly continue to ride LiveStrong rides and raise money for his foundatiuon. So there!

CaptStash....

Not that it matters, but after working on HUGE Hollywood productions (both movie and TV) for the last 28 years, I have come across many a "celebrity" myself...

I'd much rather drink with Lance Armstrong than any of the people I have met over my career in the movie business. I have never met him, but I know people who have, have ridden with him and spent time with him...They have not one bad word to say about him...

I cant say that about any of the celebrities I have met and worked with.

Just sayin'

Steve

PS: Cancer took my father. I have given back by coaching for Team In Training for a few years. Lance was one of many people who inspired me to do this.

[SoCalSteve]

I will be the solo cat who thinks Lance is pretty cool. I gotta admit it, I don't have a beef with the dude. In fact, truth be told, while I don't own/wear Lance Under Roos, I think he's all right. I don't hate the haters, I understand the Lance bashing that will take place forever, I hear ya.

Thank you for coming forward with the "unpopular" opinion.

Steve

[CaptStash]

Not that it matters, but after working on HUGE Hollywood productions (both movie and TV) for the last 28 years, I have come across many a "celebrity" myself...

I'd much rather drink with Lance Armstrong than any of the people I have met over my career in the movie business. I have never met him, but I know people who have, have ridden with him and spent time with him...They have not one bad word to say about him...

I cant say that about any of the celebrities I have met and worked with.

Just sayin'

Steve

PS: Cancer took my father. I have given back by coaching for Team In Training for a few years. Lance was one of many people who inspired me to do this.

+100

We need to hang next time I am in LA LA land.

CaptStash....

[RIHans]

I'm not a LA lover, or supporter (athletic) by any means. But, if you are out and about in the "Celeb" world...

This kind of press happens. All press is good press in that mess. Page Six.

[learlove]

Mary Kate is old eough to get into bars :confused:

it was a school night - she had to be in bed (or rehab) by 8pm.

[1happygirl]

Aside from this thread, my beef with him is that every other day ya here he's in Washington, Europe, in a bar in NYC, etc. This is the same man who says I'm a family guy who is gonna have time and take care of my kids when I retire.* Yeah, whatever.

* When I'm not in the bar being horsey, out with Mary-Kate, overseas visiting or riding.


Whatever!

[ti_boi]

Aside from this thread, my beef with him is that every other day ya here he's in Washington, Europe, in a bar in NYC, etc. This is the same man who says I'm a family guy who is gonna have time and take care of my kids when I retire.* Yeah, whatever.

* When I'm not in the bar being horsey, out with Mary-Kate, overseas visiting or riding.


Whatever!


+1....dads should be near their kids....especially if the alternative is simply being an a** in a bar....

[soulspinner]

A dear friend of my family had been battling a reoccurance of cancer for the last five years. She was gifted with a signed bicycle by lance on the the Oprah show a few years back. She passed away last week after induring pretty much 5 yrs of chemo and other invasive procedures. When Lance heard the news, he was kind enough to call her family, to offer condolences and any help that he could. I admire Lance for that. People love it when celebritys screw up. You never about the good things they may do.


Here here :beer:

[jeffg]

Thank you for coming forward with the "unpopular" opinion.

Steve

+1

Lance inspires my mom who has had her cancer recur, and I have seen him visit kids in cancer wards -- he's a flawed human being as we all are, but he has done some amazing things on and off the bike.

[jeffg]

Aside from this thread, my beef with him is that every other day ya here he's in Washington, Europe, in a bar in NYC, etc. This is the same man who says I'm a family guy who is gonna have time and take care of my kids when I retire.* Yeah, whatever.

* When I'm not in the bar being horsey, out with Mary-Kate, overseas visiting or riding.


Whatever!

Whatever indeed!

I find it amusing that folks feel the need to criticize other people's parenting when they know nothing about the relationships. I have two kids and being a father and husband is tough while juggling a career. Most busy professionals spend less time with their kids than LA, I would wager, and I bet he is spending much more time with them now than he did while he was riding competitively.

Should we bash Sheryl for having a nanny and touring (the nanny is very nice, btw)?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm not a LA lover, or supporter (athletic) by any means. But, if you are out and about in the "Celeb" world...

This kind of press happens. All press is good press in that mess. Page Six.

. . . I totally agree with Hans. For better or worse, Lance has joined the ranks of "famous for being famous" along with Paris Hilton and Britney. Not to the degree they are, but as far as the celebrity press is concerned, it's his resume now. Under those circumstances, I think you are always under the microscope and any little incident automatically gets blown out of proportion and it's almost impossible to get a handle on what really happened. He goes to Starbucks, orders his latte, realizes he's forgotten his wallet and swears to himself--and all of a sudden according to the mags and gossips he's subjecting the poor barista to a "profanity laced tirade" because they wouldn't give him the coffee for free.

I'd wager he'd had a few drinks, was not totally in control, and said a few things he regrets now. Gee, who among us who ever imbibes hasn't done that at one time or another?

BBD

BBD

[LegendRider]

. . . I totally agree with Hans. For better or worse, Lance has joined the ranks of "famous for being famous" along with Paris Hilton and Britney.

Lance's celebrity status was earned through his accomplishments. Paris' only accomplishment is to have been born to wealthy parents.

[ti_boi]

Lance's celebrity status was earned through his accomplishments. Paris' only accomplishment is to have been born to wealthy parents.


Totally agree! Although admiring someone's accomplishments and their personality are two completely different things.

Sometimes some of the most accomplished people can be complete *ssholes....it seems to come with the territory. [For the record....I think what Lance has accomplished is incredibly inspiring......beyond amazing.]

Not to sound cynical here.....please don't take this the wrong way...but Lance is very well compensated for his work with Bristol-Myers Squibb.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHugRqRBNaY

And how can anyone who has this background.....have an effective role model for fathering? http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/lances-father-gives-first-interview-9282

[BumbleBeeDave]

Lance's celebrity status was earned through his accomplishments. Paris' only accomplishment is to have been born to wealthy parents.

For whatever reasons, he's now famous just for being famous. I doubt any majority of people reading the celeb rags could tell you WHY he's famous other than he's a champion bike racer. They certainly wouldn't be able to tell you exactly WHAT bike races he won. It doesn't matter--he's a famous, rich former athlete who jet sets around and dates similarly famous women. So he's not gonna get a fair shake. The fact that he can occasionally be an *sshole and have a chip on his shoulder just adds to the juiciness . . .

BBD

[MarleyMon]

. . . "famous for being famous"..
yeah, that and winning the TdF 7 times.
in a row.

[J.Greene]

Paris' only accomplishment is to have been born to wealthy parents.

Have you seen the video? She's got skillz.

I think she is scum, but I'm hard pressed to think of someone who has done more with so little talent.

JG

[WadePatton]

Fascination with celebrity may be the end of our culture.

Yes, Lance came in the side door to "celebrity" status via his athletic performance. That happens a lot here-usually results in a crib and a pimped ride and a few court appearances and some rehab. Not that I give much thought to these things, but I'll say that LA is using his "stardom" to further his foundation (humanitarian) and to meet hot babes (human). He's still okay in my book.

[Dekonick]

His cancer work is commendable. I have always respected what he has and continues to do in that area - but somehow he always seems to show his personal true colors! You never hear anything bad about Miguel Indurain...somehow I remember him winning a few races too.

I turned down a chance to meet LA - I would much rather hang with someone who doesn't have an ego like his.

Call me crazy - there are a lot of other people I would rather sit and talk with - such as Miguel. Or Ben Carson... or R Cowley (He was an amazing man) or Bruce Lee... or Sheldon Brown.

[swoop]

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/index.php/2008/01/16/barnum-bailey-davis/#comment-97162

[ti_boi]

Have you seen the video? She's got skillz.

I think she is scum, but I'm hard pressed to think of someone who has done more with so little talent.

JG


...and a wonky eye....

[Elefantino]

Yeah, so.

I still wear Yellow® because of what it means to me and what has meant to my family, specifically my mom, who he made a semi-celebrity.

And speaking of celebrities, that's what he is now, and I wouldn't wish it for the world. Look at poor Britney, who probably has manic depression or worse, yet lives under the microscope.

Would you want to live a life where, if you farted, the video would be on TMZ.com within minutes?

[MassBiker]

Swoop,

Why don't you post the comment that was right after Andreu's?

Two sides to every argument?

:beer:

[SoCalSteve]

Swoop,

Why don't you post the comment that was right after Andreu's?

Two sides to every argument?
:beer:

3 sides to every story:

Mine, yours and then the truth...

Funny how people can "spin" things so others can see their point...and probably NOT the truth.

Just sayin'

Steve

[BumbleBeeDave]

yeah, that and winning the TdF 7 times.
in a row.

. . . The Enquirer, and HELLO! don't give a hoot about that--if they know it. He's just another celebrity they can snoop on.

BBD

[97CSI]

Swoop,

Why don't you post the comment that was right after Andreu's?

Two sides to every argument?

:beer:Yes......one-sided post. Open the link and read it all. http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/index.php/2008/01/16/barnum-bailey-davis/#comment-97162

[gt6267a]

Swoop,

Why don't you post the comment that was right after Andreu's?

Two sides to every argument?

:beer:

the post after andreu and the responses. both sides are represented there.

swoop, thanks for posting that.

[MarleyMon]

. . . The Enquirer, and HELLO! don't give a hoot about that--if they know it. He's just another celebrity they can snoop on.

BBD
The item that started this thread was from a couple of Austin blogs and being discussed on a bicycle forum, though (where it naturally leads to doped/didn't tales).
I do think that you were right about his celebrity and "any little incident automatically gets blown out of proportion". Don't agree that he's "famous for being famous" and gave my reason. Can't speak for readers of the rags you mentioned, but my opinion is people know, if vaguely, of his wins.

[Fixed]

l.a. take the good with the bad
if i could do 1/ 1000 th of the good he has done for the needy i'd be happy forever
cheers imho

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . indeed, but the rest of the linked thread makes fascinating reading. Granted, Tim Herman, Lance's lawyer who posts a rebuttal, makes some good points. But he is, after all, Lance's Lawyer. He's paid very well to do exactly what he's doing here--fight Lance's battles for him and make Lance's detractors look as bad as possible. What exactly would anyone expect him to say in the context of this linked thread? He's going to try and make Betsy sound like a bitter crackpot with an axe to grind and he's got all the resources of an expensive law firm to dredge up every possible detail about Betsy to make his case. She has nothing but her memory and her personal dedication to the truth as she sees it. It's a pretty unfair battle. It's the same battle he has waged against any of the "little people" who have dared to say anything.

BBD

[93legendti]

Tim Herman Says:
Feb. 1, 2008, at 12:43 pm

I am the attorney for Lance Armstrong and am compelled to respond to yet another false and misleading post from Ms. Andreu, whose obsession with Mr. Armstrong has now surfaced on your blog. She has posted literally dozens of claims, a recent one of which appeared on a Trinidad-Tobago site. Ordinarily, her rantings do not merit the dignity of acknowledgement, but because of the generous number of misrepresentations in her post and a completely reprehensible implications regarding eminent cancer researchers and institutions, a response is in order. Your inquiry as to why Lance has not “come after you” is easily answered. Her testimony is neither plausible nor credible and is a product of her hatred of Lance, who she holds responsible for her husband’s contract termination with the USPS team in 2001. During the trial she carried a note which contained the phrase “why I hate Lance”, and refers to the 70,000,000 Livestrong bracelets, the proceeds of which support cancer victims, as “Lance kiss-*** bands”.

Her claim that Mr. Armstrong used performance enhancing substances is based primarily upon her contention that, in October, 1996 three days after brain surgery, and while hospitalized at the Indiana University Medical Center, Lance told two treating physicians in the presence of at least six other people that he had used prohibited substances. No patient would have been asked those medical history questions 11 days after admission to the hospital, three days after doctors at that hospital had performed extensive brain surgery and in a TV room full of family and friends. Doctors swore under oath that it didn’t happen; the hundreds of pages of hospital records were provided directly to the insurance company from the hospital and those records, which contain every interaction (including over 20 medical histories) with Armstrong during his hospitalization, show it didn’t happen; the other 6-8 people who were in that room at the time either swore it didn’t happen or have no recollection of any such conversation. Betsy Andreu couldn’t identify any of Lance’s doctors as the white coated people allegedly in the room, she hurriedly left the room after two questions and long before the conversation was complete, could not remember the number of doctors, their gender, and could not remember whether Armstrong had bandages or any other sign of the extensive brain surgery he had undergone only three days prior to the alleged incident. It is not insignificant that Lance was required to undergo an active steroid and EPO regimen as part of his post-operative treatment, which may at least partially explain some recollection of those terms being mentioned.
Betsy Andreu is incredibly bitter and would do anything or say anything to hurt Lance Armstrong. For example, she conferred with and assisted the unsuccessful defendants in the SCA case, she voluntarily traveled to Dallas on her own to have the opportunity to testify against Armstrong at trial (she has previously said she had been subpoenaed to appear in Dallas, but the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong (interestingly, both Lemonds testified that Ms. Andreu described incidents that did not occur – either both Mr. and Mrs. Lemond are lying or Ms. Andreu is lying). Mrs. Andreu was so obsessive that even the insurance company employee responsible for attempting to gather evidence of possible drug use by Lance (the employee had gone so far as to steal a piece of used chewing gum Armstrong had placed in a trash can in a Dallas Courtroom and sent it for DNA testing at a Dallas laboratory) complained of her constant phone calls and suggestions. Mrs. Andreu placed over 15 calls to the investigator during a one-month period prior to the trial. All of Mrs. Andreu’s evidence and allegations were presented and considered at trial and the Panel rejected it as completely incredible and signed its award for 7.5 Million Dollars to Armstrong, $2.5 million more than the limits of the insurance policy the company had initially refused to pay.

The SCA case to which she refers was a three-week arbitration proceeding before three eminent arbitrators, none of whom had any prior connection to Armstrong. Contrary to Ms. Andreu’s characterization, SCA based its entire defense upon allegations of drug use. We requested that the case be decided on a contract basis and that no other testimony should be relevant — those requests were denied and the case went on for three weeks with 2,600 pages of testimony, 300 exhibits and many witnesses, including Ms. Andreu. Had the case involved only contract issues, Ms. Andreu of course would never have been permitted to testify. The three judges “after considering the evidence and testimony”, ordered the insurance company to pay $7,500,000, $2,500,000 more than the policy required.

Her husband, Frankie Andreu, who was a teammate of Lance’s from 1993-2000 and Lance’s roommate on the road, also testified under oath via deposition. Frankie Andreu’s sworn testimony confirms that: a) he had no knowledge that Armstrong ever took any performance enhancement substance; b) had no reason to believe Armstrong had ever done so; c) had never been told by any reliable source that Armstrong had done so; and d) that Armstrong never mentioned, much less suggested, adopting a doping regimen. Andreu was a teammate from approximately 1993 to 2000 and raced hundreds of races with Armstrong.

[93legendti]

F. Andreu testimony:

Q. Did he (Armstrong) indicate to you that he was going to use EPO or consider using EPO?
A. No.
Q. Was there any discussion between you and Mr. Armstrong regarding EPO or the use of EPO during that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did anyone on the team tell you that they knew Mr. Armstrong was using EPO during that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a discussion with Mr. Armstrong about whether or not you should use EPO?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever recommend or say you should do EPO?
A. No.
Q. And although he may not have shown you it, did you ever see anything in his room, in his hotel room or in any possessions that you thought might be a performance-enhancing drug or substance?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not Mr. Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs or substances?
A. I was on the USPS team with him ‘99 and 2000, and in those two years, no.
Q. Did anyone ever tell you that Mr. Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No.
Q. About how many races do you think you and Lance Armstrong were in together as part of the same team, you know, in your career?
A. Hundreds.

Betsy Andreu’s sworn testimony:

Q. And one of the notes that you provided to us had a notation on it by you, why do I hate Lance; correct?
A. Right.
Q. And it’s true that since the summer of 2004, you’ve talked to each of the LeMonds at least 50 times?
A. Yes.
Q. Many times about Mr. Armstrong?
A. Yes. Many times about Mr. Armstrong.
Q. You asked Kathy LeMond to call George Vecsey, who is a sports writer for the New York Times, did you not?
A. I didn’t ask her to call Mr. Vecsey.
Q. So if Ms. LeMond testified to that, that would be a lie?
A. Maybe she got something — she misconstrued something, but I don’t think I ever told her straight out, call George Vecsey.
Q. Now, you’re aware that both Greg and Kathy LeMond testified that you told them that Mr. Armstrong had called your house in a panic because he was out of EPO, and he wanted some from Frank?
A. No, that’s not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don’t know —- how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn’t it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. And you didn’t tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, you said that there was a football game going on in this room.
A. Yes.
Q. October the 27th was a Sunday…Was it day or night when you were in the room
A. It was — it was day. Stephanie remembers it being a Dallas Cowboys game.
Q. You remembered the room. There was a bathroom on the left?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a big table on the right?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a television against the wall?
A. Yes.
Q. Lance was sitting in a chair by the table?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a football game on TV?
A. Yes.
Q. And they began asking questions?
A. Yes.
Q. How many questions did they ask?
A. It wasn’t relevant. I don’t remember.
Q. You knew he’d been in there for a while before you got down there?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew he had already had brain surgery?
A. I believe so.
Q. Well, couldn’t you see his head?
A. Yes. But I couldn’t remember when we got there if he had his brain surgery before or if he had it that next day. I know he was bald, so, yes.
Q. You could remember the setting of the room. You could remember where the bathroom was, but you couldn’t remember noticing that somebody that you had known for some period of time had had brain surgery three days before?
A. Well, I knew he was preparing — I didn’t know if he was preparing to have brain surgery or if he had it.
Q. But you could see his head?
A. Yes, I could. But I don’t remember. If you jog my memory now, I can say, yeah, I remember the scar.
Q. Well, it would be hard to have a scar three days after your surgery, wouldn’t it?
A. It wouldn’t be hard to have a scar.
Q. Did they write down what Mr. Armstrong said?
A. I’m not sure. I think one of them may have had a small notepad.
Q. Did — do you remember any conversation about treatment — postoperative treatment involving steroids?
A. With Lance?
Q. Right.
A. No.
Q. Were you aware that he had had a regimen of EPO as part of his treatment for cancer? Were you aware of that?
A. As most cancer patients, yes.
Q. And as I understand it, the doctor, when he heard what you say was said, had no reaction?
A. Correct.
Q. Now that you think about it, did you — do you believe that Mr. Armstrong had bandages on his head?
A. I don’t know if he had a bandage on his head.

Drs. Nichols and Einhorn are preeminent cancer researchers and treatment specialists. The Indiana University Medical Center is a world-class treatment facility. The contribution was six-figures per year for three years, not nine-figure, and was made to the hospital long after Dr. Nichols left Indiana. The implication that these world-renowned physicians might perjure themselves or that the Medical Center might alter hundreds of pages of medical records because of a contribution is simply baseless and reprehensible.
Ms. Andreu is only a minor irritant and a source of amusement; Lance is about much more important work than to “come after” her ($270 million raised by the Foundation and $3 billion for cancer research recently authorized by Texas voters after Lance’s campaign). However, an attack upon the integrity of real heroes like Drs. Nichols and Einhorn in the war on cancer does warrant a response.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/index.php/2008/01/16/barnum-bailey-davis/#comment-97162

[Fixed]

i dismiss this case on lack of evidence
as ordered by judge fixed
cheers

[J.Greene]

i dismiss this case on lack of evidence
as ordered by judge fixed
cheers


can you lock the thread too? I love Lance Bashing as much as the next guy, but we're beating a dead horse.

JG

[Tom]

can you lock the thread too? I love Lance Bashing as much as the next guy, but we're beating a dead horse.

JG

Or at the very least sanction the excessive use of cut and paste!

Hee hee.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm still reading LegendTi's posts . . . gimme another half hour and I'll post some snide reply! . . . ;)

[swoop]

Swoop,

Why don't you post the comment that was right after Andreu's?

Two sides to every argument?

:beer:


i posted the link... you do the work! nothing is hidden and its all public record.
i'm a jerk at times... i should hope you get to be one too...
i sure don't put athletes in the position of piousness. why we need them to be good people or decent is beyond me. for all i care lance kills orphans and hates nice people. it doesn't matter if he's a dikhead or not... so long as it he isn't selling himself as the second coming... he can be how or who he wants to be.

[BBB]

What sort of a moronic lawyer would post a lengthy rebuttal on a newspapers blog? Doesn't this just add more fuel to the fire? Do they teach media skills in US law schools? The award made by the arbitrators dealt with whether or not SCA was an insurance company and not the question of drug use. When the insurance issue was decided SCA cut their losses and settled. Had the arbitrators made a definitive ruling that LA did not use drugs or ruled on the varacity of the evidence in regard to the alleged drug use then LA and his team would be shouting that from the roof tops. They don't (and you see the lawyer post extracts of evidence and not the award delivered which would say far more than selected pieces of testimony) and have merely used a clever media strategy that says "we won". Yep they won the technical legal argument, which in turn was the lever that resulted in the settlement. The did he or didn't he question will remain and will be battled out on newspaper blogs or forums such as this. Either way, I'm amazed that lawyers would fight past legal battles on blogs on behalf of their clients.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but it doesn't surprise me because it just fits in with past perceived MO for Lance of having his people go after anybody who says anything bad about him. That seems to have been the pattern--massive legal retaliation against anyone who speaks up who can be squashed. Of course, I guess anyone can post an item on a blog and claim they are Lance's lawyer. But that's just a small part of the whole problem with this--She's claimng things as "facts" and he's claiming things as "facts" and pretty obviously depending on his claimed status as a lawyer to make us presume he is right and she's a crackpot.

Lance could be a saint and a jerk at the same time about different things. Can't we all? He could easily help thousands with his cancer fundraising and be a petty, bullying jerk in bars or to perceived personal enemies he feels he can get away with it with. The bottom line is that unless you know the guy personally and have for long enough to form an opinion based on actual personal experience, then all you have to go on is reports like the Austin blog or the one quoted with Andreu. You can't truly vouch for the accuracy of any of it.

Lance is a fascinating psychological subject. Because of his background he's a great story. But he's also a good example to me of the disturbing trend of our society seeming to have an increasing prurient need to tear down role models almost as soon as they achieve the status.

BBD

[MassBiker]

"I posted the link... you do the work!"
But you were kind enough to post a pic of that one post........................lame!

[J.Greene]

. . . he's also a good example to me of the disturbing trend of our society seeming to have an increasing prurient need to tear down role models almost as soon as they achieve the status.
BBD

True, and a fair observation. I find interesting society's purient need to make role models of people who really aren't.

JG

[swoop]

"I posted the link... you do the work!"
But you were kind enough to post a pic of that one post........................lame!


oh please. get over yourself. it was pertinent and all the content is available.

[jeffg]

i posted the link... you do the work! nothing is hidden and its all public record.
i'm a jerk at times... i should hope you get to be one too...
i sure don't put athletes in the position of piousness. why we need them to be good people or decent is beyond me. for all i care lance kills orphans and hates nice people. it doesn't matter if he's a dikhead or not... so long as it he isn't selling himself as the second coming... he can be how or who he wants to be.

So as long as he does not claim to be god's gift (to cycling?) he can kill orphans? That seems odd to me, but then my last reading of Lacan et al was a while back

I root for Gibo Simoni though I am fairly certain he is a real jerk at times, and I could not care less. He's a cyclist, at least to me and in this country.

What happens in LAs case is he is a real celebrity that goes beyond cycling and people engage in ad hominem attacks on the man as if he killed orphans whereas the man has (atmo, of course) done quite a bit of good with his fame.

[keno]

Could we discuss Roger Clemens for a while? I fell asleep reading the aboveevidence, and my shelf life isn't that long. Talk about leaving the training room without the syringes, vials and swabs. Now there is a stinker who will be interesting to watch as time goes on. Bye, bye Ms. Hall of Fame.

keno

[swoop]

So as long as he does not claim to be god's gift (to cycling?) he can kill orphans? That seems odd to me, but then my last reading of Lacan et al was a while back

I root for Gibo Simoni though I am fairly certain he is a real jerk at times, and I could not care less. He's a cyclist, at least to me and in this country.

What happens in LAs case is he is a real celebrity that goes beyond cycling and people engage in ad hominem attacks on the man as if he killed orphans whereas the man has (atmo, of course) done quite a bit of good with his fame.


funny thing about gibo.. he's actually not a prick in the least. i think he just doesn't have a public self and a private self.. there's no filter.. he says what he means. reportage and context really twist things...

a friend made a film or two about him and came away really fond of the guy. he was eve in the car when it went down with basso in the last giro..
gibo just said out loud what he thought to be true.
atmo.

[1centaur]

"...is a product of her hatred of Lance, who she holds responsible..."

(said with a slight British affectation): A lawyer who does not know the difference between who and whom will never work for Cadwalader & Fromeyer.

[jeffg]

funny thing about gibo.. he's actually not a prick in the least. i think he just doesn't have a public self and a private self.. there's no filter.. he says what he means. reportage and context really twist things...

a friend made a film or two about him and came away really fond of the guy. he was eve in the car when it went down with basso in the last giro..
gibo just said out loud what he thought to be true.
atmo.

That's nice to hear. I watched him in that Giro on the stage to San Pellegrino and thought he was a great rider and personality. I did not mean he is a prick, it's just that folks who are that competitive often have a side that isn't sweetness and light, and I don't really care. Call me a Simoni hooligan ...

[BBB]

. . . but it doesn't surprise me because it just fits in with past perceived MO for Lance of having his people go after anybody who says anything bad about him. That seems to have been the pattern--massive legal retaliation against anyone who speaks up who can be squashed.

BBD

I think this is the key point - "who can be squashed."

[BumbleBeeDave]

I think this is the key point - "who can be squashed."

I don't recall him going after Lemond very hard. Perhaps because Lemond is an equally big player with equally deep pockets? That's one of the hallmarks of the bully personality--picking only weaker targets he knows he can get away with it on. That's doesn't mean he doesn't do worlds of good with his charity work. It just means there just may be two distinct sides to his personality--and that's probably also true of many millions of other people as well. Part of why I think he's a fascinating study.

I would have been far more impressed with the response to Betsy Andreu if it had been Lance himself responding, not a lackey.

BBD

[97CSI]

IIRC LA did not start the deal with either GL or Andreu. In both cases they made their representations and he only responded. What's that old saw? Don't go after folks who buy ink by the barrel.

[BBB]

That was what I was driving at; LeMond has expressed his views pretty forcefully and yet no legal action (understand there has been some heated discussions going on in the background). All power to LA for his charitable work, but a bully is still a bully whether they promote a worthy cause or not.

In my view, the appropriate response would have been for LA or his lawyers to ignore it. It's all been said before and it just comes across as childish for the lawyer in question (assuming it was actually him) to respond in that manner or that forum.

[BumbleBeeDave]

That was what I was driving at; LeMond has expressed his views pretty forcefully and yet no legal action (understand there has been some heated discussions going on in the background). All power to LA for his charitable work, but a bully is still a bully whether they promote a worthy cause or not.

In my view, the appropriate response would have been for LA or his lawyers to ignore it. It's all been said before and it just comes across as childish for the lawyer in question (assuming it was actually him) to respond in that manner or that forum.

. . . as swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. If she's really a crackpot with an axe to grind she'll come across that way soon enough to people. Maybe the problem is that she sounds too reasonable for too long. She can't be dismissed so easily as a loony. I wonder why she would come across sounding so reasonable? . . .

BBD

[capybaras]

:banana:

[Larry]

Lance for President !!!! :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Chad Engle]

Well, let me add my conjecture then too. Most bouncers aren't there to be helpful to drunks, they're there and get paid to be tough guys. Most times, they have ego's as big as Lance's. Sometimes bigger. This guy probably found it disturbing that someone half his size could get so much attention. He saw his chance to put a 175 lb world-famous biker in his place, and he took it; and Lance fell right into the trap.
Reply With Quote

All this doorman bad mouthing is offending me. :rolleyes: He was doing his job with a drunk, this shiite happens 500 times per night and somehow this is news worthy.

Doesn't make LA a bad guy, nor the doorman. I liked the post about "power hungry doormen", that is funny stuff. Sounds like a good band name.

Enjoy the weekend, I'm going sledding!! :beer:

[capybaras]

Doesn't make LA a bad guy, nor the doorman.

And that, my friend, is why it is so great that they patched it up! :banana: