Brooks Saddle Comparison and Suggestions

[burlsube]

It seems like every late winter/early spring I begin my eternal quest for the perfect saddle. I was wondering if anyone could give me a break down of how the Brooks saddles compare to each other in terms of shape - flat, rounded, etc.

I have tried a Swift off and on for several years now and it just doesn't seem to work. I always feel like I am sitting on the metal horse shoe part underneath.

If I understand things correctly the B17 and B17N would be similar in shape to the Swallow. The Pro is wider then the Swift with a more rounded shape.... does that sound about right?

I am currently using a SSM Rever Profil which is generally a painful experience for my sitbones. My saddle/ handle bar drop is .5 cm. I would like to increase my drop, but my back says otherwise.

[SimonC]

Shameless copy & paste from another forum where this came up:

"The B17 narrow and Swift are about the same width and are comfortable for me on racing / audax type bikes where my position is quite low.
The B17 champ special (the same as a B17 but for the finish) and the team pro are comfortable on bikes with a more upright position.
The Swift has Ti rails and is noticeably lighter than the Team Pro. Ti is supposed to soak up the road vibration a bit more, as well."

http://www.anothercyclingforum.com/index.php?topic=45715.0

I tried a Swallow and just didn't get on with it, too narrow up front, and when I moved back I was sat on the rivets. A Team Pro has done me nicely, so I stopped experimenting and brought three of them...

[TMB]

Team Pro is the best all round.

Heavy and comfortable ( like me - heavy, that is)

[palincss]

The B.17 and the Team Pro both work for me. The Team Pro is on my Spectrum Ti; everything else has a B.17. You can get both with Ti rails if you want to lose a few grams and more than a few dollars.

Don't forget about Wallingford's 6-mo. free return policy -- comes in very handy if you're experimenting and have yet to find the one that works best for you. Once you do, then no worries: Brooks doesn't capriciously change its models the way many saddle manufacturers do.

Wallingford is auctioning several returns on ebay right now. If you know what you like, that may be a way to save a bit on the purchase price.

[dbrk]

I use the Team Pro, B17N, B17, Swift, Swallow, B67, Colt, as well as older versions. I get on with all of them just fine. I find the B17 the most comfortable but don't notice which one I'm on until I look.

dbrk

[Ahneida Ride]

Burl

I had a B67 then migrated to a B17 (Ti). This is a most comfortable
saddle. I can now ride with plain ole cotton shorts.

The saddle should feel interesting from the get go. On the onset I recognized that both the B67 and B17 had potential.

A Brooks should not take eons to break in. 200-300 miles is my estimate.

Here are some tricks ...

Loosen the tension screw all the way.
Liberally apply Proofide to the top and BOTTOM.
Repeat every week .... Use care .... too much and the saddle can be damaged.
I suggest 1-2 bottom applications ... 3-5 top applications.
Rub the Proofhide in well with your fingers.

Placement of a Brooks is rather critical. Just a hair off is the distinction
between heaven and a trip back to Wallbike.

Take a Allen wrench out with you. Adjust the Saddle every 5-10 miles.

The Brooks is a Saddle not a seat. It works on a hammock effect.
Usually they point up must a bit.

The B17 Ti is worth the 300 frn. Finally, I am outa pain. ;)

[rnhood]

$300 frn for a B17 Ti is way too much, especially when you can buy mine for half that. :)

After about 500 miles, I just can't adapt to it. I either sit on the back rivets or, am too much on the hump which gives me numbness issues after about 40 miles. I suspect the 7 cm of bar drop might be part of the issue with this saddle since it tends to better with more upright positions. I have changed to a Koobi with those stupid little suspension inserts (or whatever they are) and, this saddle suits me much better.

[Frankwurst]

rnhood I sent you a pm.

B17's work for me, everthing else gets no consideration. I tried a Sella Anatomic for about three rides and it's for sale. I'm sticking with what works under my butt (and has for years but curiosity gets the best of me) and not concerning myself with what works under someone else's. :beer:

[ericspin]

rn. pm sent second in line

[R2D2]

Brooks are great BUT the price is crazy anymore.
For the money it's hard to beat a Fizik Aliante with Ti rails.
If you can buy one at 200.00 or under do it.

[MilanoTom]

If you're sitting on the metal, the saddle isn't far back enough. The rails on most Brooks don't allow for enough rearward adjustment (nowhere near the adjustability of modern saddles). You need a seatpost with loads of setback (Easton is pretty good). Once you're sitting on the leather, your opinion may change.

Everybody likes different tilts. Many like them nose up, but VERY slightly nose down works better for me.

Tom

[WadePatton]

darn darn darn 20 minutes and 150 short. again.

My Swift probably has a shorter "sweet zone" than my B-17 or the B5N (discontinued model). But even it is better than the half a dozen other saddles I tried on that bike.

I still prefer the break-in method I found some while back--which was copied onto the internet from something published in the 70's...which I can't find now.

Goes like this:
Put a damp rag on the saddle for several minutes before riding. Don't soak it, but create a sweat-soaked condition. Repeat the process until sitmo bones dimples begin to appear, then stop damping it and Proofhide it a time or two. Enjoy.

The only one I've oil soaked was 30 year-old NOS and was quite brittle before the soak. Now it's purrfect.

[capybaras]

get an avocet o2

[DarrenCT]

Brooks are great BUT the price is crazy anymore.
For the money it's hard to beat a Fizik Aliante with Ti rails.
If you can buy one at 200.00 or under do it.

+1

aliante rules

[SoCalSteve]

Brooks are great BUT the price is crazy anymore.
For the money it's hard to beat a Fizik Aliante with Ti rails.
If you can buy one at 200.00 or under do it.

Here is what I dont get...Well, a few things actually.

1.) People will spend $1,000.00's upon $1,000.00's of dollars on a bike frame, but have second thoughts about the MOST IMPORTANT part of the bike (the saddle). This, more than any other part of the bike and frame, will make the difference between a comfortable enjoyable ride and a bike that you want to sell on ebay.

2.) There IS NO right saddle for everyone. Everyone is different AND everyone has different body parts, bike parts, bike geometry, etc, etc, etc...

To say that one saddle will work for everyone is a BIG mis-statement.

I'd happily pay BIG bucks to have a saddle that I am comfortable on (and I have).

Thats all. Rant over.

Just sayin'

Steve

[Ahneida Ride]

Here is what I dont get...Well, a few things actually.

1.) People will spend $1,000.00's upon $1,000.00's of dollars on a bike frame, but have second thoughts about the MOST IMPORTANT part of the bike (the saddle). This, more than any other part of the bike and frame, will make the difference between a comfortable enjoyable ride and a bike that you want to sell on ebay.

2.) There IS NO right saddle for everyone. Everyone is different AND everyone has different body parts, bike parts, bike geometry, etc, etc, etc...

To say that one saddle will work for everyone is a BIG mis-statement.

I'd happily pay BIG bucks to have a saddle that I am comfortable on (and I have).

Thats all. Rant over.

Just sayin'

Steve


I ain't trying to be a wise guy, but after 800 miles on my orginal saddde
I was ready to give up riding.

300 frn is outrageous. but it is that or give the bike to Uncle William.

[R2D2]

Here is what I dont get...Well, a few things actually.

1.) People will spend $1,000.00's upon $1,000.00's of dollars on a bike frame, but have second thoughts about the MOST IMPORTANT part of the bike (the saddle). This, more than any other part of the bike and frame, will make the difference between a comfortable enjoyable ride and a bike that you want to sell on ebay.

2.) There IS NO right saddle for everyone. Everyone is different AND everyone has different body parts, bike parts, bike geometry, etc, etc, etc...

To say that one saddle will work for everyone is a BIG mis-statement.

I'd happily pay BIG bucks to have a saddle that I am comfortable on (and I have).

Thats all. Rant over.

Just sayin'

Steve


350.00 for a Ti railed Brooks is crazy. They've doubled in price in a year.
I've got a bunch of Brooks but would look elsewhere today.

[SoCalSteve]

350.00 for a Ti railed Brooks is crazy. They've doubled in price in a year.
I've got a bunch of Brooks but would look elsewhere today.

The B-17 Ti is $300.00 new (retail) But who pays retail???. They can be found on ebay for less and used for even less.

Again, people spend so much money on bikes, frames, components, etc..why would you scrimp on a saddle???

Just askin'

Steve

[WadePatton]

I'll second the "cost no real object when it comes to comfort" notion. I do not care how much my saddle, grips/tape, or pedals/cleats weigh or cost. They have important jobs to do and I won't compromise there.

A comfy $300 saddle on a custom $5000 bike seems logical to me. I've not spent as much on either, but would.

------------
attempted hijack in progress
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I'm really considering a single rail, sprung job for the ATB. Anybody tried the Flyer? It's much cheaper, simpler, and lighter than rear suspension, and I'm no slave to fashion. ;)

[burlsube]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I am going to give the B17 N a try and then if that doesnt work I ll move on to the Swallow.

I think I agree with the money is no object when it comes to a saddle. The more comfortable I am the more likely I will ride which is my primary objective.

I have an FSA post that has a moderate amount of setback, but it is a pain to adjust. I don't think a Thompson has enough. Any other suggestions for a micro adjust post with decent setback?

[72gmc]

FWIW I was a Terry Fly guy until I tried the B-17N. It has the flat shape on top that I like, lacks the cush of the Terry, but is somehow just right for my bony butt.

Plus, if the B-17N doesn't work for you, I may just take it off your hands.

[RudAwkning]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I am going to give the B17 N a try and then if that doesnt work I ll move on to the Swallow.

I think I agree with the money is no object when it comes to a saddle. The more comfortable I am the more likely I will ride which is my primary objective.

I have an FSA post that has a moderate amount of setback, but it is a pain to adjust. I don't think a Thompson has enough. Any other suggestions for a micro adjust post with decent setback?

Warning about the Swallow. It's not very comfortable, for me, on long rides. There's not a lot of leather to provide support. I bought one thinking I'd love it since my primary "modern" saddle is the very narrow Fizik Arione. I was wrong. Thing turned out to be a bit of an a$$ hatchet on long rides. My taint still hasn't forgiven me for that last 70 miler I did with it. As far as Brooks saddles go, I've found my match in the Professional.

[SoCalSteve]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I am going to give the B17 N a try and then if that doesnt work I ll move on to the Swallow.

I think I agree with the money is no object when it comes to a saddle. The more comfortable I am the more likely I will ride which is my primary objective.

I have an FSA post that has a moderate amount of setback, but it is a pain to adjust. I don't think a Thompson has enough. Any other suggestions for a micro adjust post with decent setback?

Which FSA do you have? They make one with 3.5 cm of setback which is perfect for the Broks short rails. Also, it is infinetely adjustable, so again, perfect for adjusting a Brooks saddle...

Why not give a normal B-17 a shot as well? Why deal with the "narrow" one? (narrow didnt work for me at all)

Just askin'

Steve

[burlsube]

I have the FSA K Force Lite... I was steering away from the regular width B 17 because one a previous bike I gave one a whirl and I found it to chaff the insides of my legs. I have had similar experience with the Specialized Alias/Avatar in the 155cm.

The Pro seems like it may also work. It looks like it may have a little bit more of a dip in the middle...?

[RudAwkning]

I have the FSA K Force Lite... I was steering away from the regular width B 17 because one a previous bike I gave one a whirl and I found it to chaff the insides of my legs. I have had similar experience with the Specialized Alias/Avatar in the 155cm.

The Pro seems like it may also work. It looks like it may have a little bit more of a dip in the middle...?

They're all going to eventually have a dip in them as they break in. In turn, the wings on a Professional or B17 will start to flare out. This might not be good for you if you're suffering from chafing.

Try the Swift. The sides are cut away and I believe the rails are about a cm longer, allowing for more aft positioning. Because of the price hike, they're now making these with steel rails as well as ti.

Or try the pre-aged B17 with the laces. You can use the laces tighten up the wings as they start to flare out.

[burlsube]

I have a Swift but just cant get comfortable. It is broken in, but it seems to have only one sweet spot and I tend to like to move around in the saddle. I am beginning to think that the Pro might be ideal: wider than the Swift, but narrower than the B17...

[palincss]

The B-17 Ti is $300.00 new (retail) But who pays retail???. They can be found on ebay for less and used for even less.

Again, people spend so much money on bikes, frames, components, etc..why would you scrimp on a saddle???

Just askin'

Steve

And if money is an issue, don't get the Ti railed one. The steel railed one is so much cheaper, and the rails have little to nothing to do with saddle comfort.

[SoCalSteve]

And if money is an issue, don't get the Ti railed one. The steel railed one is so much cheaper, and the rails have little to nothing to do with saddle comfort.

I think people might disagree with you on that...

Dave T and myself included. I've owned every Brooks made (pretty much) and have found that the Ti railed version of the B-17 to be more comfortable than the steel railed version.

Just sayin' (from personal experience),

Steve

[willy in pacifi]

If you're sitting on the metal, the saddle isn't far back enough. The rails on most Brooks don't allow for enough rearward adjustment (nowhere near the adjustability of modern saddles). You need a seatpost with loads of setback (Easton is pretty good). Once you're sitting on the leather, your opinion may change.

Everybody likes different tilts. Many like them nose up, but VERY slightly nose down works better for me.

Tom

I would agree with Tom about getting a proper fit before you give up on the Brooks. If you still cannot get comfy on it you might try the Sella An-Atomica which I think looks much better than the Brooks and is the most comfy saddle I have ever sat on. A different Tom, who sells them, also offers a money back guarantee so there is no risk.

I had the Ti Swift and it was good for rides up to 300 miles but then it would get to me. I have yet to find the limit on the An-Atomica and that includes 760 miles in the rain at PBP.

The design of the An Atomica is such that it does not require any break-in period and it acts as kind of a suspension due to the slot cut into it.

I am not suggesting that you need to ride long distances to benefit from this saddle. To me it feels super comfortable the second I sit on it.

Willy in Pacifica

[WadePatton]

Cut and trim and lace any way you want: http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

[SoCalSteve]

I would agree with Tom about getting a proper fit before you give up on the Brooks. If you still cannot get comfy on it you might try the Sella An-Atomica which I think looks much better than the Brooks and is the most comfy saddle I have ever sat on. A different Tom, who sells them, also offers a money back guarantee so there is no risk.

I had the Ti Swift and it was good for rides up to 300 miles but then it would get to me. I have yet to find the limit on the An-Atomica and that includes 760 miles in the rain at PBP.

The design of the An Atomica is such that it does not require any break-in period and it acts as kind of a suspension due to the slot cut into it.

I am not suggesting that you need to ride long distances to benefit from this saddle. To me it feels super comfortable the second I sit on it.

Willy in Pacifica

I also thought it looked more "modern" and was excited to try one...I did and found it to be extremely uncomfortable...

And, the owner of the company (when I had a shipping issue) was a complete and total d$ck head to me on the phone.

Anyway, one mans experience...For what its worth.

Steve

[Firenze]

Chaffing has been an issue with some saddles.
Brooks Swallow solved the problem. Over 3000 comfy miles and counting.
Great customer service from Wallbike. They sometimes have returns at good prices.
Arch

[Ahneida Ride]

The B67 was a bit too wide for me. The B17 is a better fit.

The springs on the B67 only engage if one takes a solid pound,
they are very stiff.

The B67 would be ideal for Police on Mtn. Bikes.

No saddle will work for all, but I hate to see one give up on Brooks
without a fair shake.

So Cal knows his stuff. The B17 Ti is one super saddle.
I acquired mine just before the big frn dilution. :p

Also a Brooks can last 10-20 years or more. How long does a plastic
seat last?

[Polyglot]

And if money is an issue, don't get the Ti railed one. The steel railed one is so much cheaper, and the rails have little to nothing to do with saddle comfort.

I too am not fully in agreement with this statement. I had a Ti railed Brooks that was ghastly to ride on, in fact the very worst riding leather saddle that I have ever had. I felt like I was bouncing up and down on the saddle. I much prefer the steel railed ones. Mind you it could also have been that the particular hide used on that saddle was the main reason for the difference in ride and not the rails, you never know with Brooks.

[MarinRider]

I am a long time Aliante user who is in the midst of a classic lugged-steel, fender-equiped go-fast bike project. I prefer curved-top saddles instead of flat-top saddles in general.

Which Brook model should I consider for the project? Swallow? Swift? Team?

Thank you.

[Simon Q]

Brooks are great BUT the price is crazy anymore.
For the money it's hard to beat a Fizik Aliante with Ti rails.
If you can buy one at 200.00 or under do it. I was going to ask whether you had tried the Arione or Aliante. They come in brown if you want to retain the Brooks vibe.

[burlsube]

I gave both of them a try... The Aliante was just a hair too narrow.

[rdparadise]

Is the way to go. Yes it is a fuller and heavier saddle than some of the other Brooks, however, to me it's the most comfortable. I have a Pro on three different bikes and a Swift Ti Rail on my CSI. The Swift is well broken in but when comparing the comfort to the Pro, there's no comparison. There's a much bigger sweet spot on the Pro that makes it a ride of all day comfort.

Good luck.

Bob

[BillyBear]

Is the way to go. Yes it is a fuller and heavier saddle than some of the other Brooks, however, to me it's the most comfortable. I have a Pro on three different bikes and a Swift Ti Rail on my CSI. The Swift is well broken in but when comparing the comfort to the Pro, there's no comparison. There's a much bigger sweet spot on the Pro that makes it a ride of all day comfort.

Good luck.

Bob


Great stuff...I have had a very similar experience. Have a B-17 on the Riv Atlantis...changed out the Swift on the CSI to a Team Pro....the extra 1 cm of width made all of the difference to me!