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glc
01-27-2008, 09:31 PM
most of the time i like what i do for a living and sometimes i love it. this is for for a spring issue for a certain food mag.

DarrenCT
01-27-2008, 09:32 PM
im confused.

pls explain.

glc
01-27-2008, 09:33 PM
im confused.

pls explain.


i take pictures to make a living.

oldguy00
01-27-2008, 09:34 PM
Won't be buying that magazine.

That is really gross.

Ginger
01-27-2008, 09:34 PM
Very Easter.

DarrenCT
01-27-2008, 09:35 PM
i take pictures to make a living.

cool.

however,

send ur resume to playboy or penthouse

ud have more pleasure seeing that stuff

glc
01-27-2008, 09:36 PM
cool.

however,

send ur resume to playboy or penthouse

ud have more pleasure seeing that stuff


naw, i prefer real women. thanks though! :beer:

Ginger
01-27-2008, 09:37 PM
That is really gross.

Really?

Wow.

Over this last week our sales meeting was in the same hotel as the biggest poultry processing convention in the US.
You really DO NOT want to know how they make chicken nuggets.
THAT is gross.

This goat? Not gross.

regularguy412
01-27-2008, 09:37 PM
I had to look twice at the OP nickname. I thot it was gonna be a sequel to the Manet stem thread.

JK :D

Mike in AR :beer:

glc
01-27-2008, 09:39 PM
chicken nuggets: corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, then everything that ever icked you out about a chicken, then what ever icked you out that you saw crawling in your kitchen, then a whole lotta big pharma.

Bud_E
01-27-2008, 09:47 PM
.

Louis
01-27-2008, 09:48 PM
If I had anything at all to do with that stuff I sure as heck would not be sharing it with anyone else. Let's hope that your death is not quite as senseless at that one.

H.Frank Beshear
01-27-2008, 09:55 PM
Is that a goat or a spring lamb? I'm not fond of goat but a nice spring lamb is tasty. Sliver a few garlic cloves add some herbs and roast it on a rotisserie over an open fire. Yumm.

BumbleBeeDave
01-27-2008, 10:00 PM
. . . considering what you had to work with. I assume you had a stylist put that together, or do they let you do that yourself? Soft-box from the right or is that a real window? Art director looking over your shoulder the whole time?

BBD

glc
01-27-2008, 10:04 PM
If I had anything at all to do with that stuff I sure as heck would not be sharing it with anyone else. Let's hope that your death is not quite as senseless at that one.

i apologize if you are a vegetarian and respect your ways, honest.

if you do eat meat however, we take very great care in where our meat comes from and this goat is going to be consumed, not just thrown in the trash.

on the goat tip and how it pertains health wise please feel free to pm me and ill fill you in.

a few highlights being that it contains the cleanest and highest grade protein of any meat and contains less fat than chicken sans skin. not a bad choice for cyclist. but yes, a pain i the *** to source.

glc
01-27-2008, 10:09 PM
. . . considering what you had to work with. I assume you had a stylist put that together, or do they let you do that yourself? Soft-box from the right or is that a real window? Art director looking over your shoulder the whole time?

BBD

come on dave, really? friends and i.

as far as the light goes, available light mix with 2 under fill from the bottom ( bare head ) and the key being a narrow beam reflector using just the edge to touch the product.

Louis
01-27-2008, 10:10 PM
we take very great care in where our meat comes from and this goat is going to be consumed, not just thrown in the trash.

In that case I take back what I said about it being a waste. But you are correct, I am a vegetarian.

Louis

glc
01-27-2008, 10:11 PM
In that case I take back what I said about it being a waste. But you are correct, I am a vegetarian.

Louis


respect.

BumbleBeeDave
01-27-2008, 10:29 PM
Funky, unusual styling. It seems everybody wants something that looks "different," but that's hard when people have been shooting food for a hundred years.

Also hard to hold that detail in the high key areas. If somebody showed me that in their portfolio and did it all themselves I'd be impressed.

BBD

Viper
01-27-2008, 10:36 PM
i apologize if you are a vegetarian and respect your ways, honest.

I wouldn't apologize one iota. Louis is my new friend (with a 'D' next to his name :D ) but you know what, you posted a goat with humor and he threw a serious rock at you in post # 12. Me? I'd tell him to crap in his helmet (hat) and pull it down over his ears. At least that's what my grandmother from County Mayo, Ireland would've told him.

Louis, it's a goat. You are a vegetarian. Get over it. Your vegetarianism isn't any more/less important than carnivorism. Don't give vegetarians a bad name cause the next thing ya know, some hardcore microbiotic, vegan smurf is gonna show up on your front lawn.

Louis is now my libby/vegetarian friend and this is for him: :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w88Mz_Q154

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO4ynItV8X8

julia
01-27-2008, 10:39 PM
wow. edgy for a food mag, artistically cool.

my drawing teacher used to comb the markets for fish, whole dead chickens, and goats heads to paint.

rembrandt pretty much started it with that glistening side of beef, eh?

Louis
01-27-2008, 10:55 PM
Louis is my new friend (with a 'D' next to his name)
Not sure what this means - you'll have to explain.

Edit: Oh, you mean D as in Dem. I didn't get it because actually I'm not a registered Dem. It just seems that these days they're better than the R guys. If it comes down to Billary vs. McCain it will be a tough decision for me.


you posted a goat with humor

If that's humor I'm glad to say that I don't get it.

swoop
01-27-2008, 11:20 PM
any gynecologists on the board?

Viper
01-27-2008, 11:41 PM
Not sure what this means - you'll have to explain.

If that's humor I'm glad to say that I don't get it.

What cracks me up is when a vegetarian gets their skirt tied up in a knot over a photo of a goat, deer or etc. I mean, what about those who don't eat seafood, are they allowed/supposed to freak out when we post a photo of tuna on the bbq? Also, vegetables have feelings too. I'm consistent; if you posted a photo of seared tuna and and someone flipped over the feeling of the tuna fish, I'd post the same stuff atmo.

Vegans are no greater or worse than carnivores. And vegetarians shouldn't comment on a human poster's death when speaking of a goat. Karma, it's low on calories high in fiber. :D

Do you eat eggs?
Do you eat seafood?
Are you micro or macro biotic?
Are you bionic?
Is a stalk of broccoli less beautiful than a rose? Who is to say?
Do you have leather shoes?
Are your Sidis made of leather?
Do you wear wool?
Have you chewed gum?
Used toothpaste that was tested on animals?
Do you freak on a rider if they have a Brooks saddle?
Got milk? Ever drink a cup?


(I think you can see that you can be painted into a corner where there is no escapemo). :)

Viper
01-27-2008, 11:52 PM
And Louis, your post # 12 made me think of one of my favorite scenes from my favorite shows, 'The West Wing', episode entitled 'The Midterm'.

I thought, has Louis ever touched the skin of a football, the pigskin? A Baseball? A basketball? Here, watch this, a really good scene atmo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs

It matters how we say things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TkzLnUNeVo

We all see things differently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efjcrbNcW6s

And Louis, when you're done watching, you'll have that ah-hah moment. And you need to know that just as I'd defend a carnivore, I'd defend a vegetarian, a vegan or an amoeba. And the OP posted a goat (I thought he was going to post nude pics of him with it) and you spoke/mocked his own death. And I know every episode of 'The West Wing' and 'Miami Vice'. And that's why I'll be President in 2020. And of course, rare prime rib will be served at the White House that night, they'll be salmon or a salad for you as well. :beer:

sokyroadie
01-28-2008, 06:05 AM
I had goat chops last night they were very tasty, just not very big. :)

JB

Ginger
01-28-2008, 06:14 AM
Ever drink a cup?


:)


Ah you missed the last question:

Do you drink beer?

(just like some sugar refineries and alcohol producers, many breweries [and micro breweries] filter through bone char...you have to ask specifically to find out. It's not an "ingredient" so it's not listed on the label, but it is dead critter in the mix.)

No offense intended to the vegans in the audience, just passing along an interesting point of information that many don't know.

Tom
01-28-2008, 06:25 AM
V-man, some people are vegetarians not for health but for conscience, and not because animals are all cute and fuzzly either. I know somebody like that whose favorite animals are mantids and bats, aside from her small flock of pocket dogs. Is also not because she doesn't know where this stuff comes from, she's seen chickens get their heads cut off and run around the barnyard flapping and spouting, she's seen pigs get a bullet in the back of the brain, she's seen gutted and bloody deer in the pickup bed... some of said "Yum", she said that if it thinks, she isn't going to eat it.


Where that leaves "R"s, I am not sure.

regularguy412
01-28-2008, 09:21 AM
Ah you missed the last question:

Do you drink beer?

(just like some sugar refineries and alcohol producers, many breweries [and micro breweries] filter through bone char...you have to ask specifically to find out. It's not an "ingredient" so it's not listed on the label, but it is dead critter in the mix.)

No offense intended to the vegans in the audience, just passing along an interesting point of information that many don't know.

Encyclopaedia Gingerica !! I like it.

Thanks for sharing. :beer:

Mike in AR

davids
01-28-2008, 10:03 AM
Very Easter.Funny. My thought was, "very Passover". :)

goonster
01-28-2008, 10:19 AM
just like some sugar refineries and alcohol producers, many breweries [and micro breweries] filter through bone char...you have to ask specifically to find out.

Links? Specific breweries?

The most common filtering medium used by craft breweries is diatomaceous earth (aka DE), which is the fossilized remains of algae.

Isinglass, a traditional beer clarifier, is made from fish bladders, but is not a filtering medium.

All I'm saying is that while bone char is apparently a widely used filtering medium, I've never seen it used in a craft brewery.

L84dinr
01-28-2008, 10:58 AM
Yummy, Cabron Tamales

Ginger
01-28-2008, 11:10 AM
Funny. My thought was, "very Passover". :)

Yeah, that too.

I'm sure there are other spring festivals it's "just right" for...and spring itself...although the goat would need to be a bit more fuzzy for that...


There are evidently several microbreweries in our area who use bone char and several that don't. I don't drink beer, it's just what I've heard from the vegans and something that any vegan should check.

quaintjh
01-28-2008, 11:15 AM
most of the time i like what i do for a living and sometimes i love it. this is for for a spring issue for a certain food mag.

Gastronomica?

Hardlyrob
01-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Gastronomica?


Food Arts?

It kind of fits their layout vibe.

Louis
01-28-2008, 11:54 AM
V,

You totally missed the point. It was the combination of the (intended) shock of the picture and apparent waste of a life that prompted my response. When glc responded that the goat was not going to be wasted and indeed consumed I retracted my comment. You're the one with the diatribe. Nowhere did I say that vegetarians are inherently better than carnivores.

Louis

Dave B
01-28-2008, 12:02 PM
anyone wanna know what is in gelatin? :D

Kevan
01-28-2008, 12:19 PM
road kill.

Stay tuned.

MarleyMon
01-28-2008, 12:49 PM
Funny. My thought was, "very Passover". :)
well, the 2 are related closely.
I see a lot of easter / fertility symbolism in the photo
- shadow cross, crossed spikes above the head, halo effect w/ radiant vegetation
- decorated eggs, lilies(?), beans
sure its not a lamb?

Sasha18
01-28-2008, 12:59 PM
As for beer, gelatin, etc. goes, I think many vegetarians are perfectly aware of all the difficulties, complexities, and apparent contradictions of their diet. I count myself as one.

Cool picture.

I used to cut apart suckling pigs for my restaurant job. We used to create little rosemary halos, decorate them with spring green vegetables, and of course put small apples in their mouths. There's a reason all those famous still life paintings have dead animals in them.

davids
01-28-2008, 01:04 PM
well, the 2 are related closely.
I see a lot of easter / fertility symbolism in the photo
- shadow cross, crossed spikes above the head, halo effect w/ radiant vegetation
- decorated eggs, lilies(?), beans
sure its not a lamb?But of course!

Easter is very closely related to Passover - It appropriated a lot of the same spring symbols. The ones used at the Passover Seder table include lamb, eggs, greens, parsley... And where you see a 'halo effect' - I saw a seder plate...

But, yeah. The shadow cross doesn't really fit. ;)

jerk
01-28-2008, 01:11 PM
i thought it was a delicious idul fitri meal.

jerk

MarleyMon
01-28-2008, 01:19 PM
But of course!

Easter is very closely related to Passover - It appropriated a lot of the same spring symbols. The ones used at the Passover Seder table include lamb, eggs, greens, parsley... And where you see a 'halo effect' - I saw a seder plate...

But, yeah. The shadow cross doesn't really fit. ;)
The Last Supper was a Passover Seder, so it makes sense.
- many celebrate holidays based on the first full moon after the vernal equinox

Viper
01-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Bottom line, more people should be watching more 'Miami Vice' and 'The West Wing', I hope that gets found in translation. :D

glc
01-28-2008, 01:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgFWj9SWYUY&feature=related

as far as the magazine goes its my friends, those of you might remember a certain chocolate torte from a certain dinner at a certain ramble.. same folk: http://thedinerjournal.com/

shinomaster
01-28-2008, 02:03 PM
Dude...I hope that's all you did with that goat.

J.Greene
01-28-2008, 02:03 PM
she's seen chickens get their heads cut off and run around the barnyard flapping and spouting, she's seen pigs get a bullet in the back of the brain, she's seen gutted and bloody deer in the pickup bed...


Spending every summer while growing up in a very rural part of NC that was all normal. When I see pics of things like that goat I start thinking about if oak would be too powerful of smoke for that fine animal, or is hickory the way to go.

JG

Ginger
01-28-2008, 02:16 PM
Spending every summer while growing up in a very rural part of NC that was all normal. When I see pics of things like that goat I start thinking about if oak would be too powerful of smoke for that fine animal, or is hickory the way to go.

JG

I'd vote for Apple...a bit non-traditional...but oak would make it taste like a toothpick...and there's very little fat on the critter...

J.Greene
01-28-2008, 02:25 PM
I'd vote for Apple...a bit non-traditional...but oak would make it taste like a toothpick...and there's very little fat on the critter...

Apple is good but not so easy to get in large pieces in FL. I do have access to plenty of orange tree wood, and it's pretty good.

JG

shinomaster
01-28-2008, 02:32 PM
My mom grew up in rural Anatolia. She had a really cute pet baby lamb when she was a kid. One day her dad killed it and they ate him for their Muslim holiday. She cried..but she said her pet lamb was quite tasty.

True story! :o

William
01-28-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm very happy to see that a cliff and hip high rubber boots were not used in the making of said photo.


Just sayin' (TM SCM)





William

morty
01-28-2008, 03:00 PM
I'd be willing to wager a few carnivores out there were taken aback by the photo since their meat only comes in neat little aseptic packages they buy at the grocery store. A trip down Bandini way to the packing houses wouldn't be a place many of us would want to visit.

What I don't understand is the hostility directed at people who don't share the same food preferences, and this goes both ways. I had a woman get all indignant when she overheard me ask a hotel clerk if she knew of any good vegetarian restaurants in the area. This woman proceeded to quiz me if my shoes were leather, as if it was any of her business, and that I was a hypocrite if they were. What's up with that? Why would she care if I ate plants, meat, or rocks?

While debating about gelatin, bone char, rennet, etc. is all good and well (we should know what we're ingesting), vegetarians/vegans should no more have to defend themselves than meat eaters. Like religion, it's a choice that doesn't require an explanation or apology.

BTW, my boyfriend loves lamb (and goat) and orders it often when we go out--he just has to brush & floss well before he gets a kiss :p

Okay, I'm done.

julia
01-28-2008, 03:20 PM
http://www.rembrandtpainting.net/complete_catalogue/landscape/ox.htm

Louis
01-28-2008, 03:38 PM
The fact that stuff like this makes the news must mean something...

Steer Escapes From Ohio Slaughterhouse
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 2:51 p.m. ET

CINCINNATI (AP) -- Searchers on the ground and in a sheriff's department helicopter Monday were looking for an Angus steer that postponed its date with a slaughterhouse by bolting out a gate that had been inadvertently left open.

The more than 1,000-pound animal escaped from a slaughterhouse holding pen Monday morning and ran into the woods of suburban Cincinnati, according to Colerain Township police and the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office.

The steer was last seen heading into woods several blocks north of Stehlin's Meat Market and Interstate 275, said **** Stehlin, co-owner of the meatpacking business. He said the bovine should be approached with caution.

''It's not, say, a mean animal or anything like that, it's just sort of in a panic stage,'' Stehlin said. ''It's just out running, not even knowing where it's heading.''

It's not the first time a steer has been on the loose in the Cincinnati area. In September 2006, a steer named Little Red ran from a fair and eluded capture for three days.

Fat Robert
01-28-2008, 04:05 PM
i love goat

at an eritrean place in charlotte, i once got to cook goat in the kitchen with the owner (we were friends, once, but then we went to their house and spent a very awkward sunday nodding and smiling while everyone spoke eritrean, and we all realized it wasn't going to work). i did some jerked goat. he did it ethiopian style. told this story:


in his village, they didn't have a doctor. if you were sick, you eat some herbs. you got better. or you ate some goat. herbs cure sickness. herbs are medicine. goats eat herbs. goats are medicine.

i don't get sick anymore. it works.

Viper
01-28-2008, 05:07 PM
http://www.rembrandtpainting.net/complete_catalogue/landscape/ox.htm

I think most people don't see the woman peering into the doorway on the right. Does it represent life (woman) and death (dead calf etc)?

Or does it take the Bible into the oil on the canvas, the story of The return of the prodigal Son (which was a great Miami Vice episode too)? I lean heavily towards Rembrandt's expression of Luke 15's 'The Return of the Prodigal Son' (Parable of the lost Son Luke 15: 11-32) in his 'Carcass of Beef'; clearly with his other paintings, the man enjoyed the good book (aka Bible).

Rembrandt did create his own separate'Return of the Prodigal Son' painting, which is imo, part of his other 'Carcass of Beef'.

We may not know, only Leonard Nimoy 'In Search Of...' can determine.

http://www.arttoheartweb.com/worshipresources/benedictions/ben_Rembrandt_Prodigal.htm

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=15&version=31

Luke 15: 22-24..."But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate."

MIAMI VICE 'Prodigal Son':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6MugJGuMTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LYrnqQC60o

WadePatton
01-28-2008, 05:30 PM
... When I see pics of things like that goat I start thinking about if oak would be too powerful of smoke for that fine animal, or is hickory the way to go.

JG
Yes, and I wonder why it has been so long since I tended the smoker...

swoop
01-28-2008, 05:45 PM
it think life is gloriously messy if you let yourself see all of it. it affects you on a deeper level, which is why we disconnect from so much of it.

seeing things as they happen just deepens the experience. and this is why art... even pop art in a magazine does good... to make you feel or wretch or see beauty in the gestalt.

be afraid of how we sanitize and edit rather than the stuff we edit.

that's what i say.


so i typed this in a gown. just keepin it real yo.
interesting thread for the variety of reactions.

i don't like eating things that look they were alive and had heads... and that makes me idiotic. i hate to see what they killed to make my pizza.

did we fix the tuna yet?

bcm119
01-28-2008, 05:57 PM
I'd be willing to wager a few carnivores out there were taken aback by the photo since their meat only comes in neat little aseptic packages they buy at the grocery store. A trip down Bandini way to the packing houses wouldn't be a place many of us would want to visit.

What I don't understand is the hostility directed at people who don't share the same food preferences, and this goes both ways. I had a woman get all indignant when she overheard me ask a hotel clerk if she knew of any good vegetarian restaurants in the area. This woman proceeded to quiz me if my shoes were leather, as if it was any of her business, and that I was a hypocrite if they were. What's up with that? Why would she care if I ate plants, meat, or rocks?

While debating about gelatin, bone char, rennet, etc. is all good and well (we should know what we're ingesting), vegetarians/vegans should no more have to defend themselves than meat eaters. Like religion, it's a choice that doesn't require an explanation or apology.

BTW, my boyfriend loves lamb (and goat) and orders it often when we go out--he just has to brush & floss well before he gets a kiss :p

Okay, I'm done.
I was going to say almost exactly the same stuff... well said.

The leather shoe question always cracks me up... an answer like "no, whale skin" will sometimes break their train of thought.

I've heard a million and one totally different reasons for vegetarians choosing to not eat meat. My significant other hasn't eaten meat since she was 8 yrs old, mostly because the sights and smells of animals being slaughtered affected her at an early age in a bad way. Such things don't bother other people at all (like me), but to grill someone (no pun intended) on exactly why they do or don't eat things just seems weird. Reminds me of the folks who ask hybrid drivers if they know that their mutual funds contain stock from non-green companies.

I'd agree there are probably a fair amount of carnivores who'd be disgusted enough to stop eating beef were they to tour one of the putrid commercial slaughterhouses off I-5 on a nice August day. And there'd be plenty who'd head right to In-n-Out afterward.

MarleyMon
01-28-2008, 06:08 PM
My Uncle Joe took my bro, cousins and me to a slaughter house when I was 10 or 11. They used to shoot the cattle with a pistol, don't know if they still do that. It was fascinating to see conveyor belts with parts and parts and parts.
It was endless.

Years later I was running an AV presentation by a large poultry producer with video that demonstrated their new production facility. Again, endless conveyors of carcasses in various states of processing. It was quite graphic and grossed out a lot of the office employees who worked next door to the site.
Then they served the most delicous duck for lunch!

"Are your shoes leather?"
"Why, are you hungry?"

regularguy412
01-28-2008, 06:35 PM
"Are your shoes leather?"
"Why, are you hungry?"

That's a fair retort. Reminds me of the old Red Skelton character 'Clem Kadiddlehopper' boiling an old leather boot to make soup for his dinner.

:beer:
Mike in AR

Ginger
01-28-2008, 07:18 PM
My Uncle Joe took my bro, cousins and me to a slaughter house when I was 10 or 11. They used to shoot the cattle with a pistol, don't know if they still do that.

Nope, they don't do that anymore. It is amazing how it has changed.

My goal is not to offend. But some comments in this thread have been offensive. While it's their right to be offended, many people don't really know where any of their food comes from, be it vegan or omnivore. Are vegetables and fruits harvested by people who are practically slave labor any better than meat on the hoof raised for slaughter? I don't think so.

I grew up on an organic cow/calf and sheep farm. We ran 50 head of cattle, 90 head of sheep, and 3 acres of garden (and occasional 7' long retired sows...you want to talk about omnivores? If allowed those creatures will eat anything smaller and slower than they are, plant or animal and they can bite through a 2x4 in one bite...scary. Pigs are not "cute" and I don't eat much pork...or chicken for that matter.) and we called them all by their own names, treated them as creatures, not as commodity (we probably would have done better if we had been a bit more commercial.) We sent the animals to slaughter and inspected the carcasses when they were chilling. And I agree with Shino's mom...my pet lambs were tasty.

I salute the vegan and vegetarian's attempts to live consciously, but just because someone eats meat, doesn't mean they're not living consciously, they've just come to different conclusions and have a different comfort level.

ericspin
01-28-2008, 07:22 PM
MA, did you guys have herding dogs for all those sheep?

big shanty
01-28-2008, 07:23 PM
Reminds me of an old Denis Leary bit:

"THIS TUNA IS DOLPHIN SAFE! No dolphins were harmed."

"What about the tuna?"

"Fu*k them, they taste good!"

Ginger
01-28-2008, 07:25 PM
MA, did you guys have herding dogs for all those sheep?

Ah, no...that was my job.

I don't think you really need dogs until you get up above 100. It probably would have been easier at times, but we had chutes and gates and lead sheep who were trained to grain buckets...

WadePatton
01-28-2008, 07:30 PM
yep. most of the meat I eat I "harvest" personally. keeps one in touch with the full circle.

and back to the beer--(and bread for that matter) yeast are real live organisms routinely killed in the process.

and i've heard the argument that it's okay to kill cows and not deers--cows aren't cute. i'm not making that one up.

but I don't want to argue, you eat your food, I'll eat mine. and I may eat what you leave on the plate. ;)

ericspin
01-28-2008, 07:45 PM
Ah, no...that was my job.

I don't think you really need dogs until you get up above 100. It probably would have been easier at times, but we had chutes and gates and lead sheep who were trained to grain buckets...


Just wonderin'. I have a Border Collie and I love to go to herding trials and watch them work.

Oh and BTW I don't think I could eat him. He probably wouldn't taste very good as he is spoiled rotten.

bcm119
01-28-2008, 07:53 PM
Note to meat-loving omnivores:

You don't have to defend yourself. Most vegetarians don't think anything less of you for eating meat, nor do they want to defend themselves as to why they don't eat meat. Its a personal choice and we can all get along, imho.

Viper
01-28-2008, 08:01 PM
Note to meat-loving omnivores:

You don't have to defend yourself. Most vegetarians don't think anything less of you for eating meat, nor do they want to defend themselves as to why they don't eat meat. Its a personal choice and we can all get along, imho.

Note to my Pinko, Commie, tree-hugging, living in a tree vegan:

Thank you. :beer:

PS. FWIW, I am eating much less red meat as I grow older, more seafood, but certainly less calories overall. Still, gnawing on a medium rare, rib eye bone is true love.

PSS. My Labrador Retriever, Bless her soul, her favorite food of all-time was a can of tunafish. It made her so happy to have a can of tuna.

Louis
01-28-2008, 08:09 PM
I am eating much less red meat as I grow older, more seafood, but certainly less calories overall.

In that case there'll be more room for :beer:

bcm119
01-28-2008, 08:54 PM
Note to my Pinko, Commie, tree-hugging, living in a tree vegan:

Thank you. :beer:

PS. FWIW, I am eating much less red meat as I grow older, more seafood, but certainly less calories overall. Still, gnawing on a medium rare, rib eye bone is true love.

PSS. My Labrador Retriever, Bless her soul, her favorite food of all-time was a can of tunafish. It made her so happy to have a can of tuna.
Not fair to stereotype by location unless you show your own. Where are you-- Lubbock? Topeka? Bismarck? ;)

PS Your dog looks tasty.

vaxn8r
01-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Not fair to stereotype by location unless you show your own. Where are you-- Lubbock? Topeka? Bismarck? ;)

PS Your dog looks tasty.
Not to mention his prior location, Corvalis Oregon, not exactly a hot bed of liberalism. We all gotta work somewhere. Stereotypes are wrong on so many levels.

Viper
01-28-2008, 09:23 PM
Not fair to stereotype by location unless you show your own. Where are you-- Lubbock? Topeka? Bismarck? ;)


Capital of the world (New York).

Yeah, there's about five of me left in NY. :rolleyes:

morty
01-28-2008, 09:29 PM
This thread is a good example as to why it's difficult to even discuss vegetarianism without touching a few nerves.

Absolutely, using human beings as slave laborers is despicable. My grandparents on my mom's side were migrant farm workers who picked cotton for a living when they first came to this country--backbreaking work for very little pay. To say they were poor would be a gross understatement. My father's father was a cattle hauler, owned a ranch and made a very decent sum of money at it. Point is, they each worked for an honest living and deserved to be treated with respect.

Ginger, it sounds like you cared for your animals well, making sure they were healthy, and when it was time for slaughter it was done humanely. I certainly don't have any problems with that, nor do you have to defend yourself to anyone for it. My first job was in the meat packing district of L.A. where some of the animals weren't so fortunate to be handled in such a way; it left a lasting impression to be sure.

Vegetarians and omnivores can live peacefully side by side, really. Now I'm going to go grab a beer, yeast be d@mmed!

Viper
01-28-2008, 09:56 PM
This is an incredible video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDlWSdZs4uM

jerk
01-28-2008, 10:09 PM
my issue with vegans and vegitarians is their complete disregard for vegetables. putting the poor things into a frying pan full of oil and a bunch of horribly contradictory spices and then boiling the mess untill it has the nutritional content of styrofoam without the texture or the taste is not "stir fry" its an abomination worse than anything that ever took place at a slaughterhouse.
i have never met a vegan who could really cook nor one raised in a culinary tradition that saw food as more than mere sustenance.

don't meet many french, italian nor belgian vegans. they all seem to trace thwir lineage back to the british isles. cant say i blame trading pickled eel or anything else dredged out of the thames by way of thick rope amd rotting horsehead for a bland piece of bean curd wallowing in boiling soy sauce though.

jerk

Viper
01-28-2008, 10:16 PM
Vegetarian food = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE&feature=related

shoe
01-28-2008, 11:05 PM
reminds me of trapping as a kid...don't really miss that job.it is interesting the reaction at times to carcasses...i really like the photo grant...makes me not really want to eat goat though...but if we go to dinner there i might have to try a piece of yours..lord knows we had some good food there...what do you do after 160 mile ride...goood food and wine of course....maybe we'll do some shorter ones this year....liked the photos from france as well....and there was that poor peach with the bite taken out of it....it looked so helpless..ride on.....dave

capybaras
01-28-2008, 11:29 PM
most of the time i like what i do for a living and sometimes i love it. this is for for a spring issue for a certain food mag.

it would be much cuter with it's skin and alive. goats are so cute.

shoe
01-28-2008, 11:31 PM
funny i thought that thing was just sleeping....

bcm119
01-29-2008, 12:16 AM
my issue with vegans and vegitarians is their complete disregard for vegetables. putting the poor things into a frying pan full of oil and a bunch of horribly contradictory spices and then boiling the mess untill it has the nutritional content of styrofoam without the texture or the taste is not "stir fry" its an abomination worse than anything that ever took place at a slaughterhouse.
i have never met a vegan who could really cook nor one raised in a culinary tradition that saw food as more than mere sustenance.

don't meet many french, italian nor belgian vegans. they all seem to trace thwir lineage back to the british isles. cant say i blame trading pickled eel or anything else dredged out of the thames by way of thick rope amd rotting horsehead for a bland piece of bean curd wallowing in boiling soy sauce though.

jerk
Theres more to vegetarian cuisine than frumpy english people boiling vegetables atmo. Veggie Indian, middle eastern, thai, even mexican food can be great.

Too Tall
01-29-2008, 08:33 AM
What I thought about was a nod to Moroccan cloth prints and you dissection of the flowers with a bowl of spices suggests what's this goats fate.

Vegans. I leave them B. They tend to get snarky if not catered to...just like me ;)

jerk
01-29-2008, 11:41 AM
Theres more to vegetarian cuisine than frumpy english people boiling vegetables atmo. Veggie Indian, middle eastern, thai, even mexican food can be great.


true dat....i'm speaking about folks born into a non-vegan/vegitarian culture i guess. still pretty funny post though...indian food doesn't need meat for sure.

jerk

gt6267a
01-29-2008, 11:55 AM
while we are talking about indian food ... i don't recall seeing fish / seafood on the menu at the local indian place. i imagine some nice fish curries but never see them ... is this common? any reason for the lack of fish / seafood in indian cuisine or is it there and i am missing it?

bcm119
01-29-2008, 01:08 PM
while we are talking about indian food ... i don't recall seeing fish / seafood on the menu at the local indian place. i imagine some nice fish curries but never see them ... is this common? any reason for the lack of fish / seafood in indian cuisine or is it there and i am missing it?

Shrimp and fish are more common on the menus of restaurants specializing in south indian food. The majority of Indian restaurants in the US are north Indian style, so you don't see seafood on the menu as often. All Indian food is largely vegetarian, but you'll find shrimp and fish used in the southern coastal areas. A typical south indian style restaurant around here will have a large selection of dosas and some coconut milk-based curries.

swoop
01-29-2008, 02:14 PM
i'm surprised none of the art lovers here mentioned damien hirst and a reference for the image.

shinomaster
01-29-2008, 02:16 PM
true dat....i'm speaking about folks born into a non-vegan/vegitarian culture i guess. still pretty funny post though...indian food doesn't need meat for sure.

jerk


Don't forget all the pasta, pizza, and veggie sushi rolls! Penne arribbiata is a favorite of mine.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penne_all'arrabbiata

davids
01-29-2008, 02:18 PM
i'm surprised none of the art lovers here mentioned damien hirst and a reference for the image.The photo is too pretty. Not the same thing at all, atmo.

swoop
01-29-2008, 02:23 PM
funny.. i find his work tends towards beauty. but its a fine line between beauty and vulgarity.

julia
01-29-2008, 04:31 PM
funny.. i find his work tends towards beauty. but its a fine line between beauty and vulgarity.

and only a short leap of imagination from here to silence of the lambs. . .erk, sorry

swoop
01-29-2008, 04:33 PM
and only a short leap of imagination from here to silence of the lambs. . .erk, sorry

and from there a quick leap to erichie.

see... 3 degrees of atmo.

djg
01-29-2008, 07:56 PM
i'm surprised none of the art lovers here mentioned damien hirst and a reference for the image.

I think that DH doesn't elevate the carcass to great art until he cuts it in half. Or has an assistant do it. Any fool could take a whole animal to the biennale ...

julia
01-29-2008, 08:29 PM
I think that DH doesn't elevate the carcass to great art until he cuts it in half. Or has an assistant do it. Any fool could take a whole animal to the biennale ...

2008 biennale: the newly vegetarian damien hirst has an assistant cut a banana in half, preserves and displays halves in adjacent glass cabinets

swoop
01-29-2008, 08:35 PM
if only carl andre didn't kill painting thirty something years ago.

oh, did i say that out loud?

(teasing).

julia
01-29-2008, 08:49 PM
if only carl andre didn't kill painting thirty something years ago.

oh, did i say that out loud?

(teasing).


painting is DEAD? AGAIN? why didn't anybody tell me, here i've been wasting my time mucking about when i could have been cutting bananas and sheep in half

(only half teasing. the other half is painting).

julia
01-29-2008, 09:01 PM
painting is DEAD? AGAIN? why didn't anybody tell me, here i've been wasting my time mucking about when i could have been cutting bananas and sheep in half

(only half teasing. the other half is painting).

err. . .and laughing!

Ginger
01-29-2008, 09:17 PM
funny.. i find his work tends towards beauty. but its a fine line between beauty and vulgarity.


You'd think no one has actually looked at a dead animal before. It is a pretty box though.

glc
01-29-2008, 10:55 PM
interesting how far this thread went

BumbleBeeDave
01-29-2008, 11:00 PM
interesting how far this thread went

. . . looks like you DIDN'T use a stylist.

BBD

julia
01-30-2008, 01:23 AM
interesting how far this thread went

glc: i love it. thanks.

jeffg
01-30-2008, 01:43 AM
and from there a quick leap to erichie.

see... 3 degrees of atmo.

but still a bit of a leap to Hermann Nitsch ... Go Wiener Aktionismus

djg
01-30-2008, 07:40 AM
2008 biennale: the newly vegetarian damien hirst has an assistant cut a banana in half, preserves and displays halves in adjacent glass cabinets

A dancing banana is kitsch. Dancing banana halves are ...

capybaras
01-30-2008, 08:06 AM
A dancing banana is kitsch. Dancing banana halves are ...

kitschiER! :banana: :banana:

Tom
01-30-2008, 08:30 AM
mmmmmmmm... cheese!

manet
01-30-2008, 08:31 AM
. . . looks like you DIDN'T use a stylist.

BBD

time for some art history lessons dave... just sayin'.

manet
01-30-2008, 08:40 AM
http://www.cinelandia.com/still.html

morty
01-30-2008, 10:18 AM
Now there's some art I can appreciate.

Eye of the beholder is true. I'd rather look at Mapplethorpe's flowers than a cow encased in formaldehyde but hey, that's just me! The latter reminds me more of a science project.

Carry on...

julia
01-30-2008, 12:06 PM
Now there's some art I can appreciate.

Eye of the beholder is true. I'd rather look at Mapplethorpe's flowers than a cow encased in formaldehyde but hey, that's just me! The latter reminds me more of a science project.

Carry on...

then there's mapplethorpe's other stuff, but we'd best not go there

Lazy Bill
01-30-2008, 12:09 PM
Here is a NYT article I read about the cost of meat production.

Re-Thinking the Meat Guzzler (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?em&ex=1201842000&en=7490d3223d2f16cb&ei=5087%0A)

"A SEA change in the consumption of a resource that Americans take for granted may be in store ó something cheap, plentiful, widely enjoyed and a part of daily life. And it isnít oil.

Itís meat.

The two commodities share a great deal: Like oil, meat is subsidized by the federal government. Like oil, meat is subject to accelerating demand as nations become wealthier, and this, in turn, sends prices higher. Finally ó like oil ó meat is something people are encouraged to consume less of, as the toll exacted by industrial production increases, and becomes increasingly visible."

morty
01-30-2008, 12:57 PM
then there's mapplethorpe's other stuff, but we'd best not go there
yeah, better not

shinomaster
01-30-2008, 03:30 PM
then there's mapplethorpe's other stuff, but we'd best not go there

Pain cave?

capybaras
01-30-2008, 08:57 PM
Here is a NYT article I read about the cost of meat production.

Re-Thinking the Meat Guzzler (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?em&ex=1201842000&en=7490d3223d2f16cb&ei=5087%0A)

"A SEA change in the consumption of a resource that Americans take for granted may be in store ó something cheap, plentiful, widely enjoyed and a part of daily life. And it isnít oil.

Itís meat.

The two commodities share a great deal: Like oil, meat is subsidized by the federal government. Like oil, meat is subject to accelerating demand as nations become wealthier, and this, in turn, sends prices higher. Finally ó like oil ó meat is something people are encouraged to consume less of, as the toll exacted by industrial production increases, and becomes increasingly visible."

Thanks for posting this link.

Ginger
01-30-2008, 09:28 PM
Here is a NYT article I read about the cost of meat production.

Re-Thinking the Meat Guzzler (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?em&ex=1201842000&en=7490d3223d2f16cb&ei=5087%0A)
Like oil, meat is subsidized by the federal government.


I love the spin of these articles.

Theoretically, reporters are supposed to be neutral and supply the story and facts for the reader to make up their own mind, not pound the reader with "what they're supposed to be thinking" based on the reporter's bias.

You know what's really interesting? Comparing these reports over the years to see just where the real price of beef currently rests. Of course...the sheer number of pounds of meat *is* staggering when you think about it...
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lm_xb401.txt
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/NW_LS410.TXT

capybaras
01-30-2008, 09:55 PM
goats are cute

fiamme red
01-30-2008, 09:57 PM
Theoretically, reporters are supposed to be neutral and supply the story and facts for the reader to make up their own mind, not pound the reader with "what they're supposed to be thinking" based on the reporter's bias.It's an Op-Ed piece (one that I mostly agree with).

capybaras
01-30-2008, 10:08 PM
just have some fish and a few local organic eggs every week and you won't need all that meat.

Ginger
01-30-2008, 10:44 PM
It's an Op-Ed piece (one that I mostly agree with).
I didn't look at the heading that closely. As an op-ed piece it's just fine. I'm familiar with the author, generally he puts out good stuff. I was just a bit surprised by some of his phrasing.
I don't disagree with his phrasing, and I feel that all meat animals should be raised grazed, not in feedlots...and the American farmer should get a better price for the meat they do raise...(I suspect subsidies have changed since I was on the farm. We'd get them for wool, but I don't remember getting them for beef or lamb.)

Ginger
01-30-2008, 10:54 PM
just have some fish and a few local organic eggs every week and you won't need all that meat.

Meat eating is a reality in this nation. Having an opinion on a healthier, more humane way to raise and slaughter that which is eaten, rather than just saying: "don't eat it", seems to me an argument that's more likely to be heard especially with the consumer's turn towards organic and environmentally friendly agriculture.

glc
01-30-2008, 11:22 PM
ginger i cant wait to talk to you lthis summer, assuming rambling times happen.

a great book, with a great pholosiphy, great recipes and great photos is the river cottage meat book: http://www.amazon.com/River-Cottage-Meat-Book/dp/1580088430/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201752812&sr=8-1

one more image from last nite. this pig was raised and slaughtered by the same guys who cave/age that cabbot cheddar cheese im sure a lot of you eaten at one point or another. they are in the process of building 5 cheese caves at the cost of a couple million dollars. in turn they are reviving the dying vermont dairy industry one handed, sans government help. their next step is to raise pigs on the whey from all the cheese bringing zero waste in to the production.

capybaras
01-31-2008, 08:00 AM
Meat eating is a reality in this nation. Having an opinion on a healthier, more humane way to raise and slaughter that which is eaten, rather than just saying: "don't eat it", seems to me an argument that's more likely to be heard especially with the consumer's turn towards organic and environmentally friendly agriculture.

Yes. All that too but people could also eat less meat - they already eat too much of it for their own good - besides the fact that the animals are treated cruelly.

Do you have a extra banana jersey? :banana:

capybaras
01-31-2008, 08:02 AM
:(