I'm Rusting!!!

[shinomaster]

Oh the horror!!! Or as they say in Boston ( haar rah).

I am speaking about my seemingly new old Serottta Atlanta purchased in May of 1999. Really I'm quite upset!!
Today after a ride in which I bumped into Serotta fit guru Michael Sylvester on his Ottrott I decided to clean my Atlanta. When flipped over I noticed that the down tube has lots of bumps on the surface which would not go away, and there were tiny orange spots bleeding throught the white paint on the underside of the chain stays. It is rusting from beneath the paint! I have always felt that I had gotten a crummy paint job on this bike as it chips so very easily, but is it possible that it is worse than I thought? I know frames can rust if not properly finished. I don't ride this bike in the rain very often, and they don't salt the roads here in Portland. I keep it in my apartment too!!
I feel as though I should get it re-painted but I have little interest in investing in a Serotta paint job ( the only way to keep the warrenty) as I paid enough for this frame the first time.
How quickly should a frame like this start to rust? How does one know when the rust is damaging the frame? Does this sound normal? None of my other OLDER steel bike are rusting like this. Nor is my dad's SLX Bianchi from 1992.
Does Serotta warrenty paint jobs??? ...I wish...SERIOUSLY!

I am really bummed out as I have taken quite good care of this frame!

Sincerely yours forever,

Shinomaster

No this is not another publicity stunt! And no I'm not trying to get a new free frame... :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[vaxn8r]

Shino, just hurry up and ride the hell out of it.

Seriously, call Serotta too.

[Needs Help]

I feel as though I should get it re-painted but I have little interest in investing in a Serotta paint job (the only way to keep the warrenty)

This warranty will be void if any alterations or modifications, including the application of paint, are made by anyone to the product without express written authorization of Serotta.

[Larry]

The real question is if the frame is rusting on the inside of the tubes.
Of course this is difficult to know.
A little rust should not affect the exterior of the tubes. However, it is really annoying..... and the bottom line is that this simply should not be happening. The bike is not that old, and you obviously take good care of it.

Call the folks at Serotta and explain your observations and describe the symtoms.

[Tom]

My 2001 CSi got ripped and chipped and began to rust on the outside. Most of the dings were my stupidity, but there they were. I sent it back last winter, much to BBD's amusement I might add, and had Serotta repaint it. The new paint shop practically armor coated the damn thing. I've whacked it pretty good several times to the point of cringing and cursing but nothing happens to the paint.

This doesn't help you any but I have anecdotal evidence that the new paint shop is better than the old one was. If I were buying a bike, the quality of the current Serotta paint job wouldn't be an issue.

I'd contact Serotta, see if they'll warrantee a paint job by somebody else if you like the other guys better. In the mean time, there was a really good thread on patching the paint a while back.

[bostondrunk]

Screw the warranty, it is a steel frame, it ain't gonna break. Go get it repainted by someone cheaper than Serotta. Maybe you can have a few decals cut for you to give to whoever does the finishing.

[BumbleBeeDave]

You have serveral choices . . .

A) Get Serotta to repaint it. Just try to pick out some scheme more exciting than Tom's "People's Proletariat Tractor Factory No. 14" silver job. ;)

B) You can get it repainted closer to home, either with or without Serotta approval.

C) You can try to patch it yourself.

But I think first you need to see if there is anyone around town who can shine a light down in there and answer Larry's very important question for you--IS it rusting from the inside? I had some of these same "pinprick" spots on the doorjamb of my car and when I investigated I found out that all of the metal underneath had rusted from the inside out--there's no metal left underneath, just rust. I'm still trying to figure out how to fix it myself.

That's the important question, because if it's rusting from the inside you got REAL problems. The frame is most likely beyond repair and should not be ridden. If Serotta did the original paint, then you might have a warranty claim if you bought the bike new. If you bought it used I'm not sure.

Good luck!

BBDave

[Dekonick]

Fortunately, the down tube is under tension, not compression so I doubt it would fail suddenly...

Paint repair - Serotta suggests you use clear nail polish on dings - until you can get them to re-paint (or permission to repaint)

check the inside of the frame - (my guess is you could use a dentist mirror and a flexible LED light - there is a disposable lighted stylette we use for intubation that curves into any position you want, I am certain there are other similar lights available)

coat the inside with linseed oil just in case... I bought a 1/2 gallon for $10 bucks at the Home Depot. (When I change my components from 600 STI to Campy 9 I plan on drenching my frame in this stuff...)

[shinomaster]

I bought the frame new in 99. When it was rebuilt in 2001 whith new parts we used frame saver.

[shinomaster]

it is true the frame has a bout 200 small chips everywhere. I just haven't been able to keep up with touch up. Too many!! Ironically none of the chips seem to be rusting. The paint chips it it come into contact with anything.

[va rider]

Where you found the rust, are there paint chips? Or is the paint bubbling and you found rust under the paint?

Funny thing, on my new CIII, I just noticed a number of chips in areas not caused by riding. Like, the dropouts, water bottle eyelets. I have not yet used nail polish, but I will immediately.

[shinomaster]

well-- there are chips everywhere on the bottom of the frame, from rocks I suppose. The rust it just beginning to come through the paint and it is not really close to many chips. I'm going to take it to the Bike Gallery on my day off to see what they think.

[Dekonick]

I was just reading that some (most) paints are porous to a certain degree, and lotsa things will permeate it eventually... like sweat! (just as bad as road salt eh?)

I dunno - man I hope its ok. If not, its an excuse to get a new legend!

[Larry]

This really sounds like an exterior paint problem.
Something salty has been slowly eating through the finish.
The frame is not that old, and I would be willing to bet that the inside of the tubes are fine, especially if the tubes were treated with framesaver.

So..... a new paint job may be in store for your Atlanta.

[Jeff N.]

Send it to Joe Bell (619)469-4312, and get it re-finished/repainted. Don't settle for anything less. Jeff N.

[alembical]

Shino,
This is definitley an instance where I recommend sending it back to Serotta. The warranty is not something in this instance I would want to give up. Let Serotta look at it, if they have done the only paintings and it is rusting through the paint, they might help you out. If not, they do a real good job with the paint, and you still have a warranty. You have another bike to ride, so the time is not an issue.

I would also think that Serotta would give you the go-ahead to have JB do the painting. There is not anyone more respected than him, and Serotta acknowledges that they will give permission for others to repaint the frame, so it only makes sense that JB would be top on that list.

I vote on having Serotta check it out and repaint it good as new (actually likely better than the original paint). Plus, rumor has it Acme is swamped right now.

Alembical

[BumbleBeeDave]

Send it to Serotta, and if you don’t like their price, let me know. I only live 25 miles from the factory, and I have plenty of half-full cans of Krylon down in the basement . . .

BBDave

[shinomaster]

but one black and yellow Serotta is plenty for the world! Ha ha...

Warm regards,

Shino :banana: :banana: :banana:

[weisan]

Hey Shino, care to update us what came out of all these in the end? :p

thanks,
weisan

[Serotta PETE]

As BB mentioned earlier, give the gang at Serotta a call and discuss. In the winter you might want to send to them for inspection. With the frame saver sprayed, I doubt it is rusting from inside the tubes.

It really sounds like surface rust under the paint, maybe Serotta will assist in cost reduction for respray. Also, there is a 30% discount if you are a "club" member.

Bell does excellent paint, but he is not cheap. If you are going to keep the bike for quite some time, I would suggest getting Serotta to repaint, new decals, etc...(you will not be able to tell difference from a new bike)

Since Serotta opened the new factory, they have had a state of the art paint process.

Good luck. PETE

[Andreu]

seriously think about getting the best paint job you could afford if I really liked the bike and wanted to ride it. After all you have invested in it in the first place.
If you don´t like it and ff you are going to buy another bike in the next couple of years run it into the ground and enjoy it. I have a frame that is doing exaclty the same thing (but I have another frame to go to) so I am running it into the ground.
There is a quite a lot of metal beneath the rust and it will take quite a while to rust to nothing.
A

[Kevan]

storing steel frames indoors after riding them in cold weather puts the frame at risk? Those cold tubes will behave inside and out just like a cold beer can set out on the kitchen counter. I'm talking condensation. Unless the frame saver was really applied liberally (And who can be sure of that?) and comes in contact with all the frame's innards, there's a real risk of rust developing from the inside working its way out. In my steel days I kept the ride inside an unheated garage which prevented the problem.

Shino, wishing you and your steed the best.

[Andreu]

Eh you know what ....you may be on to something. I have had more rust developed here in Spain (which is a dry country) then when I was in the UK (wet wet wet). I currently keep my bike in doors...and where I live is very very humid. Some days you can feel the humidity condensing on your hands (it is way up in the 90%).

Maybe the trick is to keep the bike at a temperature/Rh as close to possible to the outside so as not to create any temperature "shock" and condensation? Or may be I am worrying too much?
A

[vandeda]

Honestly, imho unless Shino is taking the bike mountain biking, the paint shouldn't be chipping the way he says it is .... it sounds like the paint hasn't bonded very well .... but Kevan can be onto something too ... or a combination of the two.

Regardless, imho, I think Serotta should take care of the problem given the bike is only 5 yrs old. I mean .... I have an 1988 steel Centurion (hey ... it's lugged :rolleyes: ) that's been stored inside after riding cold days, is rarely cleaned 'cause, never seen Frame saver .... well, it was free so it's my abuser bike. Quite frankly, the only rust is a bit of surface rust at bad paint chips or scraps that are down to bare metal. I cannot believe that my 16 year old Centurion (Quality from Japan, Designed in USA lol) has a tougher, more durable paint job than a Serotta.

I hope Serotta treats 'ya well Shino!!!!
Dan

[Andreu]

I was told by my bike shop that very thin walled tubes these days are good for about 5 years. I have, therefore, been mentally prepared for a day when I will retire my Basso.
sob
A

[vandeda]

Andreu,

That stinks if true. I wonder how todays thin-walled aluminum and carbon fiber compare, mile for mile. Is that due to rusting issues or fatigue?

That's one reason that when i get my Vanilla, I have no plans on getting any of the fancy, lightweight, thin-walled steel alloys out there ... but some nice, thick, heavy steel like that used in my Centurion ... nothing like "beat on it with a pipe wrench" toughness. I was telling Sacha (Vanilla) that the thing I like about my Centurion is ... if I had it upstairs in my bedroom and I got lazy, I would just push it out the window, go downstairs and ride on.It's nice hot having to worry about it.

But .... Shino's paint chipping problem still, imho, is a hint that something may have gone awry in the painting process .... it should be more durable than that if it bonded well.

Dan

[djg]

original owner of the bike, I'd be tempted to have Serotta look it over. Not only does their refinishing preserve your warranty, but they may give you a break on the price if it turns out there was something wrong with the initial finish.

Otherwise, advice to go with top notch and top priced repainting is neither wrong nor right. It's worth it if you want it and can comfortably afford it, etc., etc. That is, it's worth it for some folks. At the same time, there are quite a few professional frame painters out there who can do a solid, dependable job of prepping and painting a bike frame and many of those folks charge considerably less than either Serotta or Joe Bell (with no offense to either). I had an experienced Michigan framebuilder do a repaint on a CSi I had bought used and I have no reason to doubt his account of his prep work; and the paint job--which cost half of what Serotta would have charged--looks good to me. Also, independent of what you might think of the paint, I'm quite sure he didn't spoil the ride of the bike.

[shinomaster]

Sorry...I've been to busy to get it checked out! I will probably have the Bike Gallery do an overhall this winter and inspect the frame and maybe talk to Serotta then!!
Thanks for the advice,

warm regards,

shinomaster

[PaulE]

My guess is that if the frame were rusting from the inside out, you would be able to press the tip of a ball-point pen against one of those rust spots and have it go through the frame tube without applying a whole lot of pressure. But that's just my guess. Good luck and let us know what you find out from Bike Gallery.

[shinomaster]

I was told by my bike shop that very thin walled tubes these days are good for about 5 years. I have, therefore, been mentally prepared for a day when I will retire my Basso.
sob
A

I dont think the chain stays on this bike are thin. The rear end is a brick.

[vaxn8r]

I agree about the Atlanta. Reynolds 531. If anything, overbuilt.