Chris King hub doesn't like to go backwards

[thejen12]

My rear Chris King hub doesn't like it when I pedal backwards, or roll the bike backwards. It doesn't turn well, causing the chain to get all flummoxed up. I suppose I don't really need to pedal backwards, but even when I stop at a light and raise up my clipped-in leg to get ready to push off, the chain falls to a lower cog and when I start riding it makes a horrible noise trying to get itself back up into the correct cog. It doesn't happen every single time, but maybe 10% of the time. The same thing happens when backing my bike out of my office. It's a good thing I have a good chainstay protector!

My LBS took the hub apart and pronounced it good and told me that this stiffness was a "feature". They also said it might get a little better over time. I have about 2500 miles on the hub, which was custom ordered for me from CK by my LBS (it's mango). Am I stuck with this "feature" or is there a fix for it?

Oh, we also tested it out in the LBS on the repair stand comparing the CK wheel and an Ultegra-hubbed rear wheel. The Ultegra wheel works just fine, only the CK wheel has problems. The problems are evident on the repair stand with no load on the drivetrain.

Thanks for any advice! Jenn

[Geoff]

new free hub body?

[J.Greene]

They do require a bit to break in, but 2500 miles is too long. Call Chris King, they are very helpful.

JG

[willy in pacifi]

Sounds more like you have a chain line issue with the cassette on the CK hub but not when you have the Shimano wheel on the bike. I would not blame it on the hub but be sure there is no spacer on the CK cassette.

[weiwentg]

it just sounds like the seals are still tight. 2500 miles is a bit far, but they will break in.

edit: I misread the post. it does sound like a derailer adjustment issue.

[thejen12]

Sounds more like you have a chain line issue with the cassette on the CK hub but not when you have the Shimano wheel on the bike. I would not blame it on the hub but be sure there is no spacer on the CK cassette.
There is no spacer on the cassette, we even swapped cassettes between the two because the Ultegra hub had a DA cassette and the CK hub had an Ultegra cassette. Noticed a very small difference in performance with the DA cassette vs. Ultegra cassette on the CK hub, but nothing at all substantial.

Jenn

[willy in pacifi]

There is no spacer on the cassette, we even swapped cassettes between the two because the Ultegra hub had a DA cassette and the CK hub had an Ultegra cassette. Noticed a very small difference in performance with the DA cassette vs. Ultegra cassette on the CK hub, but nothing at all substantial.

Jenn

Does the CK wheel have the correct dish? See if it is centered between the seat stay the same as the Shimano wheel.

I run CK wheels on all of my bike and yes some do not turn as easily as other wheels until you break them in but that should not have any effect on the chain droping.

[Fixed]

use another set of wheels see what happens
cheers

[AgilisMerlin]

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=169565


or

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/hubs/chris-king/PRD_50236_2500crx.aspx

third or fourth response down....


They are designed that good. Just take them apart and you will see. But, beyone the infamous "buzz" and the fact they engage faster than any other hub on the market, it is questionable if that is a huge advantage. I guess I try to NOT coast, so the quicker engagement is little of a big deal. Really- it comes down to the rolling of the hub. I think there are alot of great rolling hubs on the market, but the nice thing about the king hubs is you can service them yourself if you buy the VERY EXPENSIVE service tool from King. I have the tool and I use it on the hubs. My best recommendation is to remove the inner plastic ring that sits behind the bearings. This reduces drag HUGE! In fact, the bearings wear intot he plastic ring and that is why it takes so long to get the drag to go away. Yes- when they are new, you slow down going downhill as anotehr reviewer said! Removing the plastic rings is the hot ticket. I emailed King, but they deny any improvement in removing the plastic rings. But, I disagree 100%. You must clean the hubs often or debree will enter the plastic cage on the bearings and ruin the smoothness of the bearing. This happened to me on some moutnain bike wheels. I am also not too impressed with the white chris king lube they sell for repacking the bearings after cleaning them out. I have used Philwood grease (green grease) in the bearings this time and they roll smoother. I will see how it works out this summer after about 800 miles or so and I will post an additional review. All in all, if you have the cake to spend- buy these. But, don't get them becasue everyone says they are great- there is other stuff that is nice too. Philwood is heavier, but nothing rolls like a philwood hub. :)

Strengths:

[H.Pie]

They can take quite a while to break in for sure but 2500mi seems excessive. I had a problematic hub and the cause turned out to be the seal on the drive side hub bearing. I replaced the seal and the problem vanished.

[Ahneida Ride]

Whites and Phils are two great options.

[sevencyclist]

I had the exactly same thing happen to my Chris King hub after a few thousand miles of riding. It got worse over time. I tried a few shop without result. I finally got it solved at Palo Alto Bicycle. Ask for Jon Mara or Mike Sasaki, and they can change the grease in the hub, and it will solve the problem. Apparently Kings need a specific density of grease in order to run smoothly. Good luck.

[guyintense]

Apparently Kings need a specific density of grease in order to run smoothly. Good luck.

Is it possible someone tried a different grease in a futile attempt to quiet the "buzz?"
Also, those hubs are adjustable.
Wrong grease and too tight?

[thejen12]

Thanks for the links. Maybe I'll ask my LBS to try removing that plastic ring. I should also probably call Chris King, but I don't know much about hubs, so I might be too ignorant to get much info. across.

Jenn

[AgilisMerlin]

Jen

http://www.spoke-n-word-cycles.com/TechnicalDocuments/Chris%20King/Chris%20King%20Technical%20Service%20Manual.pdf

go half way down and you will see disassembly rear road hub fig. 11 and figure.12 shows the plastic ring behind freehub body. (i think)

page 23/45

cool and easy. when the shop disassembles you might want to watch. Looks like it would take no longer than 15 min. once the cassette is removed.

good luck

[guyintense]

The Chris King site has a few informative movies:
http://www.chrisking.com/tech/tech_movies.html

a picture is worth a thousand words and when they're moving pictures the value increases exponentially

[11.4]

I've had this problem a few times on CK hubs. It's always resolved the following way:

The axle and the freehub have to be matched to within a thousandth of an inch or so. One can't really manufacture consistently to that kind of tolerance, at least not at a cost that one can justify in a hub. The alternative is to put a micrometer on all the axles and on all the freehubs and sort both by dimensions. Then they simply match the freehub with an axle in the same dimension. If they mis-measure or mis-pick a freehub or axle, you either end up with some axle play that you can't get rid of, or you get an axle that's a little too tight inside the freehub so it wants to rotate with the freehub. When that happens, the freehub feels tight against the axle, and the freehub will also tend to rotate forward when freewheeling fast and cause the chain to drop onto the chainstay. If the rotation simply feels a bit tight and doesn't display all this behavior, you may simply be dealing with the greater resting resistance in the ringdrive system and the King bearing sets in the freehub. It isn't a problem when there's a load on the hub, but it definitely doesn't seem as smooth when holding the wheel in your hand.

It's not impossible that the wrong lubricant is preventing the axle from rotating freely within the freehub, so that's definitely an easy first check. You should only be using Chris King RingLube or simple TriFlow inside the freehub, nothing else. Whatever is in there, you will want to clean out completely with a spray can of TriFlow -- messy, but it does the job best. To do that, simply insert two 5 mm allen keys in the axle ends and loosen one end. The axle pops out, then the whole freehub just pulls off the hub with a tug. The non-drive side has a single threaded adjustment on the axle with a locking cap over it. The freehub won't fall apart if you pull it out this way -- simply spray lots of TriFlow into all crannies of the freehub and then reassemble in reverse fashion. Use the threaded axle adjustment (not a cone, but it works that way) to eliminate any axle movement.

If cleaning the freehub doesn't solve it, your shop should send the wheel back to Chris King and they will replace either axle or freehub to make it work properly. Note that they mark a single-digit number on the freehub and on the axle; you can check to see that these are the same, but that doesn't rule out a mismeasured piece to begin with.

It's a great hub and worth having to deal with this kind of thing from time to time. By the way, King is in Portland. If you're going to the hand-built show, you can bring the wheel with you and arrange to have them fix it while you're there.

[sevencyclist]

I've had this problem a few times on CK hubs. It's always resolved the following way:

The axle and the freehub have to be matched to within a thousandth of an inch or so. One can't really manufacture consistently to that kind of tolerance, at least not at a cost that one can justify in a hub. The alternative is to put a micrometer on all the axles and on all the freehubs and sort both by dimensions. Then they simply match the freehub with an axle in the same dimension. If they mis-measure or mis-pick a freehub or axle, you either end up with some axle play that you can't get rid of, or you get an axle that's a little too tight inside the freehub so it wants to rotate with the freehub. When that happens, the freehub feels tight against the axle, and the freehub will also tend to rotate forward when freewheeling fast and cause the chain to drop onto the chainstay. If the rotation simply feels a bit tight and doesn't display all this behavior, you may simply be dealing with the greater resting resistance in the ringdrive system and the King bearing sets in the freehub. It isn't a problem when there's a load on the hub, but it definitely doesn't seem as smooth when holding the wheel in your hand.

It's not impossible that the wrong lubricant is preventing the axle from rotating freely within the freehub, so that's definitely an easy first check. You should only be using Chris King RingLube or simple TriFlow inside the freehub, nothing else. Whatever is in there, you will want to clean out completely with a spray can of TriFlow -- messy, but it does the job best. To do that, simply insert two 5 mm allen keys in the axle ends and loosen one end. The axle pops out, then the whole freehub just pulls off the hub with a tug. The non-drive side has a single threaded adjustment on the axle with a locking cap over it. The freehub won't fall apart if you pull it out this way -- simply spray lots of TriFlow into all crannies of the freehub and then reassemble in reverse fashion. Use the threaded axle adjustment (not a cone, but it works that way) to eliminate any axle movement.

If cleaning the freehub doesn't solve it, your shop should send the wheel back to Chris King and they will replace either axle or freehub to make it work properly. Note that they mark a single-digit number on the freehub and on the axle; you can check to see that these are the same, but that doesn't rule out a mismeasured piece to begin with.

It's a great hub and worth having to deal with this kind of thing from time to time. By the way, King is in Portland. If you're going to the hand-built show, you can bring the wheel with you and arrange to have them fix it while you're there.

1. Use the Chris King RingLube lubrication, or simple TriFlow spray, inside the freehub. Whatever is in there now needs to be cleaned out well, which a spray can of TriFlow does quite well. You can use as much RingLube or TriFlow as you want, but a thicker lubricant (even by an amount you can't identify just by feeling it) can cause problems. However, if this is the problem, you are also likely to be seeing pawls lifting.

2. The al
Speaking words of wisdom and experience. Amazing!

[thejen12]

Thanks, 11.4, that's an awesome post!

I am definitely going to print out this thread and go through it in detail.

Jenn