ti + carbon = what?

[Climb01742]

curious how you phorumites view frames that combine carbon and ti. are they trying for greater comfort? or greater performance? do you view them as comfort frames or racing frames?

and maybe as a side question: if you were looking for a really comfortable frame, what material would you consider first? and if you were looking for a racing frame, what material would you consider first?

to answer my own questions: as now built, i guess i see carbon/ti frames as primarily comfort frames. not primarily go fast frames.

and if i were looking for the most comfort, i'd consider ti first. and for racing, i'd consider carbon. my 2 cents any who. what's yours?

[scottcw]

to answer my own questions: as now built, i guess i see carbon/ti frames as primarily comfort frames. not primarily go fast frames.

Well, based on my early experiences with my Ottrott, I would disagree with this statement. It is noticeably more comfortable than my Legend Ti and, at the same time, noticeably more responsive when I step on it. A couple of people told me before I bought the Ottrott that it is so comfortable that they expected it to be soft or "noodle-y" when sprinting, but the reality is quite the opposite. It is stiffer and faster than the Legend Ti. I should clarify that my Ottrott has the Ti stays. It was built with the components and wheels taken from my Legend, so the only difference is the frame materials.

[djg]

exercise without riding it. I dunno what they do exactly, but apparently there are videos.

I've seen quite a bit of rhetoric associated with various combo frames and I don't know how to sort the ideas from the hype. I do happen to like my Colnago CT1 a lot, and it happens to have a CF rear triangle (as well as a full cf fork), but I'm not really sure what contribution the CF is supposed to make. I've heard stories, but ... In the end, I just know that I like the feel and handling of the bike overall.

[jberk]

:cool: :confused: how much of the perception that carbon + ti frames are comfort frames while other materials are go fast frames is driven by what materials are used in the frames in the European peloton? an Ottrott spec'd with Dura Ace is probably several thousand dollars more than a top of the line carbon fiber Trek. Building an Ottrott with Campy Record can push the frame towards $10k.
Top Pro teams essentially get their bikes for free in exchange for pr for the frame manufacturer. Serotta is not a big company as compared to Trek, Colnago, Pinnarello, Giant, Specialized, Look, Time, Cannondale, etc. That is not to say that there aren't hybrid frames in the European peloton. But, how much does a manufacturer's willingness to commit large dollars to sponsorship have to do with the perception of whether a Serotta is a fast bike. Remember, in first Olympic Road Race in which pros could ride, the winner was riding a Legend Ti painted to look like a Fausto Coppi frame . . . :bike:

[Dekonick]

Correct me if I am wrong...but

Cant a good frame builder make just about any material feel/act similar?

I seem to remember reading an article somewhere about just this topic.. but I cant remember where.

Steel is, to me, still one of the most comfortable materials to ride - but couldnt someone make a bike out of concrete and add wheels, suspension seat post, or other tweaks to make it a comfortable ride? Steel still looks the best to me, but I guess thats because I am now getting older and remember when 'all' bikes were made from steel. :D

[dave thompson]

A carbon/Ti bike could be anything you want. Look at all the permutations of the Ottrott. Some guys swear they are a miracle bike, others, a comfortable bike. I would assume a good builder could make a carbon/Ti bike ride/handle/be comfortable just about any way the rider desires.

I've had three Calfees and I like the way they ride; lively like steel but without the road 'noise'. They are a little quick handling for my elderly taste, but if I got another one it will be custom, to the specs of my Kirk or Serotta.

[ericmurphy]

I remember reading somewhere that carbon fiber resists torsional deflection better than titanium. Supposedly this is why the Ottrott has carbon top and down tubes. I assume the ST rear triangle is more a matter of comfort that stiffness.

[Kevin]

My Ottrott is both fast and comfortable. I don't know why. But it is.

Kevin

[David Kirk]

I rode a bike about 20 years ago that was built by the boys at Fat City for the Great American Huffy Toss. It was in VT.....Putney I think.

The bike frame was built from a connecting rod from a tug boat. The wheels were made from old saw blades welded side by side. To say it was heavy would be an understatement. They had a scale that went to 500 pounds and the bike pegged it so who knows what it weighed.

It was truely rideable though you had to be careful not to let the saw blade wheels get your legs. It was a fixed gear that had old school steel cottered cranks and the riding fun stopped when someone dropped the bike on it's side and the crankarm was bent into the frame. Bummer!

It was the only bike I've ever ridden that left 2" deep ruts in the grass when you rode it.

So whichever way the technology leads us don't bother building one this way..........

Dave

[Sandy]

The Legend Ti has a deservedly stellar reputation, as one of the finest ti bikes produced. Some believe it is the best. I was told that in designing the Ottrott, the goal was to to maintain the ride quality of the Legend Ti but to make it stiffer (responsiveness). Serotta believes that goal was met.

I have ridden my Ottrott ST 4,000 miles thus far and feel it is a remarkable balance of stability, responsiveness, control, compliancy, and should I add fun. It is every bit as responsive as the CSi, probably a little more so. It is every bit a "race bike" as Serotta has ever produced, in my humble recreational cyclist opinion.

The Ottrott is not simply a "comfort frame". It is a "go fast" frame that is comfortable. I actually expected the carbon fiber and ti tubes to make the bike more comfortable than it is. I think you really miss it with your analysis of the Ottrott. With 4 tubing choices and 2 ST choices, and 2 chain stay choices, you can make it as stiff as you want it.

I find the bike remarkably efficient in transferring pedal input into forward motion. It accelerates exceptionally well, once again in my recreational cyclist perception.

I know someone who owns both an Ottrott ST and a Colnago C-50. He definitely prefers the Colnago, feeling it is more responsive and has excellent handling. No one bike is the ultimate for everyone.

I think of the Ottrott ST as the Serotta on Steroids. It is a very comfortable race bike.

Sometimes Slow Sometimes Speedy STill Serotta Sandy

[Climb01742]

sandy, as your post, and many others in the past, indicate, the ottrott is an ideal creation for many riders. honestly, my post wasn't meant as a critique of carbon + ti, but a question. i'm just curious how folks view it. my ottrott was supremely comfortable. just not supremely fast. i haven't ridden other builders' carbon/ti creations, so i was curious what folks were seeking.