Help me understand weight

[ox_rider]

If I build up a steel bike/steel fork with light components and light wheels to say 16-17 or so lbs., what if at all will be the difference in ride, handling, etc. vs. building it up closer to say 20-21 lbs? Maybe this is obvious, but I would love to hear someone explain this.

[Viper]

Weight = mouth + calories + the numbers on the scalemo.

[Frankwurst]

If you've got the cash go for it. Best place to trim the lbs is the wheels and your arse. :beer:

[Louis]

F = ma

[Viper]

p = m/v

[stevep]

A=tmo

[flux]

At 16-17lbs your bike will accelerate faster, be easier to pedal uphill, handle more agile... if you are into that sort of thing. :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

altoids + san pellegrino = more tail than sinatra atmo.






ps

arrange disorder
:) :) :)
:) :) :)
:cool: :) :)

[stevep]

If I build up a steel bike/steel fork with light components and light wheels to say 16-17 or so lbs., what if at all will be the difference in ride, handling, etc. vs. building it up closer to say 20-21 lbs? Maybe this is obvious, but I would love to hear someone explain this.

seriously though..
the weights that you cite are pretty far apart... a pretty basic build would likely only be maybe a pound or 2 different.
unless you are thinking of ultra light wheels i \m not sure that the bike weight will b that much different.
just a thought.

[flux]

Campagnolo Hyperon's + SRAM Red + Richard Sachs = NAHBS

[e-RICHIE]

seriously though..
the weights that you cite are pretty far apart... a pretty basic build would likely only be maybe a pound or 2 different.
unless you are thinking of ultra light wheels i \m not sure that the bike weight will b that much different.
just a thought.
Puccipedia 14.0 atmo -

[CNY rider]

Do you carry your wallet with you when you ride?

Lighter bike, lighter wallet.

Not sure how that will change your bike handling.

[MarleyMon]

If I build up a steel bike/steel fork with light components and light wheels to say 16-17 or so lbs., what if at all will be the difference in ride, handling, etc. vs. building it up closer to say 20-21 lbs? Maybe this is obvious, but I would love to hear someone explain this.
one difference would be your wallet will be about $1.5K lighter.

[stevep]

what kind of frame do you have? ~ 5 pounds maybe?
what are yr parts choices? difference between simano 105 and camy record is not all that much in weight~ 1 pound ( +1,500 )
what wheels? say basic mavic wheels ~ 1,800 g= 4 pounds
very light " 3 "
might be a better way to attack this


lighter will be quicker, snappier, easier to climb.
but more money.

[e-RICHIE]

what kind of frame do you have? ~ 5 pounds maybe?
what are yr parts choices? difference between simano 105 and camy record is not all that much in weight~ 1 pound ( +1,500 )
what wheels? say basic mavic wheels ~ 1,800 g= 4 pounds
very light " 3 "
might be a better way to attack this


lighter will be quicker, snappier, easier to climb.
but more money.
Puccipedia 3.14 atmo -

[Fixed]

bro dear sir i have a 15 pound fix and it's great ,the problem i have is this 5 pound lock i have to carry .
cheers :beer:

[Ti Designs]

A=tmo

Can you define your variables???

[mschol17]

p = m/v

Ummmm... p = m*v :beer:

[Viper]

Ummmm... p = m*v :beer:

Enter: The weight of a 'Campy Record Carbon crankset', divide by 'the amount of Shimano riders' multiplied by 'the amount of episodes of Miami Vice you saw in the 80's' to the square root of 'Beers consumed monthly' subtract the amount of times you 'saw Excalibur' add the 'amount of times you listened to music on volume 11' and this...this formula will help you understand weight.

http://science.widener.edu/svb/tutorial/density.html





.

[soulspinner]

Campagnolo Hyperon's + SRAM Red + Richard Sachs = NAHBS


Prettier than a Parlee- does he allow anything other than Campy on his bikes? :D

[e-RICHIE]

Prettier than a Parlee- does he allow anything other than Campy on his bikes? :D
01101000011001010010000001101101011000010110010001 10010100100000011101000110100001100101001000000110 11000110010101100001011100000110110101101111001000 000110000101110100011011010110111100101110

[rustychisel]

I propose that e-RICHIE and Obtuse be forced to exchange forum names.

[saab2000]

Geometry trumps weight every day.

And 2 lbs off the ol' gut = about 6 lbs off the bike. Or more.

Seriously. A bike weighs what it weighs. Look at the '87 TdF. Roche won on a 'heavy' bike. Delgado and Bernard had lighter bikes. Higher tech. Etc. Roche beat them. Why?

Better 'preparation'......

Honest. The weight of the bike don't matter. Geometry matters a lot. The rider matters even more.

[stevep]

hey saab,
whats w/ the 777 in london?
lost power?
big trouble, no?
how long have they been in service anyway? few months?
eeesh.

[Ti Designs]

I hear for some bikes the weight is about 6 years. I'm all confused about the units...

[roman meal]

hey saab,
whats w/ the 777 in london?
lost power?
big trouble, no?
how long have they been in service anyway? few months?
eeesh.


Are those the carbon ones? Seriously?

[saab2000]

hey saab,
whats w/ the 777 in london?
lost power?
big trouble, no?
how long have they been in service anyway? few months?
eeesh.

I dunno man. Speculation is running rampant in the 'chatter' I hear. You don't just 'lose power' out of nowhere.

Glad nobody was hurt.

I wonder if the high altitude jetstreams were strong? They were enroute from PEK-LHR (Beijing-London Heathrow) and landed short. That NEVER happens.

It's gonna be interesting. I haven't read the preliminary report yet.

No fire. Nothing to start a fire.

Strong winds. No fire. Short of the runway. Hmmm..... :rolleyes:



Somebody broke the cardinal rule - "Don't scratch the airplane". Somebody is not sleeping well right now.

[stevep]

Are those the carbon ones? Seriously?

no, the ones i sold you are good...
all the others are defective.

[Erik.Lazdins]

hey saab,
whats w/ the 777 in london?
lost power?
big trouble, no?
how long have they been in service anyway? few months?
eeesh.

Hey I don't know what happened - but it was fortunate nobody was seriously injured. Good news is British Airways does main maintenance there - They need it.
$150MM airplane what will the bill be?

Lastly you asked Saab - I replied - hope you don't mind.

[saab2000]

Are those the carbon ones? Seriously?

No. The 777 has been in service for over 10 years. Perfect safety record. 'Til now. First 'hull loss' AFAIK.

Thankfully they all walked away from it all. Honest. That's what really counts.

The carbon fiber one is coming.

What? You scared? :D I'm not afraid.

[saab2000]

BTW, now there have been two major accidents in the past couple years involving ZERO fatalities. The Air France accident in Toronto involving wind shear, a runway overrun and a huge fire. And no fatalities. And now BA with this one.

Thank god the flight attendants are pros. Seriously. I know the briefings get old. But you will be thankful you have good ones if you are having a bad day and end up on one of these flights.

Instead of a tragedy, there are hundreds of people who will see their families this evening.

[roman meal]

What? You scared? :D I'm not afraid.
I'll go on the Queen Mary. More time for cocktails.

[saab2000]

I'll go on the Queen Mary. More time for cocktails.

ROG on the cocktails. Ships never sink........ :rolleyes:

[Erik.Lazdins]

Instead of a tragedy, there are hundreds of people who will see their families this evening.

You said it all with that.

[Louis]

hey saab,
whats w/ the 777 in london?
lost power?
big trouble, no?
how long have they been in service anyway? few months?
eeesh.

Early stuff on the news suggested that it was an effed up approach.

We'll see. On stuff like this I bet that they will be 99.999999% certain of what caused the accident.

[saab2000]

Early stuff on the news suggested that it was an effed up approach.

We'll see. On stuff like this I bet that they will be 99.999999% certain of what caused the accident.

In the other 1/1,000,000 of 1% they know but just won't say........

"But for the grace of God, there go I" Everyone who flies these things, or programs the programs that helps fly these things is a human. Ever see bird crash? Probably not.

Humility is the key here. Every time you see a young Tom Cruise/Iceman wannabee in their leather jacket and sunglasses in the terminal think about that. Birds don't crash. They don't drink either.

[rounder]

bro dear sir i have a 15 pound fix and it's great ,the problem i have is this 5 pound lock i have to carry .
cheers :beer:

Good point...someone should be able to come up with a lock that doesn't weigh so much. I bet no one ever thought of it before. It can't be that complicated. Lots of people would like that. You should go for it.

[KeithS]

I think.

The birds fly into my picture window and then crash to the ground. Pilots hardly ever do, and they weigh more too. Back to the weight thread...

[Viper]

In the other 1/1,000,000 of 1% they know but just won't say........

"But for the grace of God, there go I" Everyone who flies these things, or programs the programs that helps fly these things is a human. Ever see bird crash? Probably not.

Humility is the key here. Every time you see a young Tom Cruise/Iceman wannabee in their leather jacket and sunglasses in the terminal think about that. Birds don't crash. They don't drink either.


Just keep in mind who the BEST pilot in Top Gun tuly was. :cool:

[saab2000]

Weight don't matter.

Pilots might have bigger brains, but they're far from perfect. And glass is relatively new - a few hundred years. Birds have been flying for what? A hundred million or so?

I'm a pilot and dumber than a box o' rocks compared with a bird.

I just want to know what makes a bike handle properly. Any trained ape can fly an airplane. Making a bike handle properly is the real dark art here.

[roman meal]

.

[saab2000]

.


Gets it.

[Louis]

When I hear our test pilots talking about a particular model jet that they really like they say that it "bikes"

[stevep]

will be interesting to see how this comes out.
he touched down 1000 feet in front of the runway?
thats not close no matter how you look at it.

i was confusing the 777 w/ the new jet.

[saab2000]

Another possibility would be an occurence of a downdraft. There were relatively heavy winds and cumulonimbus (CB) clouds in the area. CBs are what turn into thunderstorms. Thunderstorms have downdrafts.

At this point it's all speculation.

But you are correct. Airplanes don't just touch down 1000 feet short by themselves. Some significant outside factor played a part here.

Chatter includes birds, microburst, fuel starvation, unstable approach, etc.

They'll figure it out.

[Blue Jays]

The weight of the bicycle is more noticeable on acceleration and when climbing. Once a rider has reached "cruising speed" with his/her teammates, a couple of pounds isn't quite as impactful.
As a matter-of-fact I enjoy the reliable "feel" of my steel-framed and steel-forked bicycles. They're just different from my titanium and carbon fiber bikes when taking weight out of the equation.

[J.Greene]

i was confusing the 777 w/ the new jet.

A riding buddy pilots the 777 and will be one of the first at his airline to fly the new one. Some of the technologies he talks about is amazing to say the least.

JG

[Tobias]

The weight of the bicycle is more noticeable on acceleration and when climbing.How about when decelerating and descending? :)

Too much myth on this subject for an honest answer. :rolleyes:

[Blue Jays]

Tobias, the heavier bikes seem somewhat more resistant to crosswinds, in my experience.
This is further highlighted if the lighter bikes are shod with wheels containing aerodynamic/bladed spokes.

[Tobias]

Blue Jays, I was not implying that your answer was not honest or that I disagreed; but rather that it’s next to impossible to address the subject honestly due to myths and misunderstandings.

Besides, it’s a complex subject if treated with precision. IMO general trends regarding weight are simple but a comprehensive analysis is too involved for most of us. Bike weight, rotating weight, etc. in the real world can not be evaluated in a vacuum as many want to do.

Even the assumption that lower rotating weight is “always” faster is incorrect. There are exceptions to that also.

[sn69]

It sounds a bit like the TRANSAT deadstick, albeit presumably without the internal fuel leak. Or perhaps with....

I dunno man. Speculation is running rampant in the 'chatter' I hear. You don't just 'lose power' out of nowhere.

Glad nobody was hurt.

I wonder if the high altitude jetstreams were strong? They were enroute from PEK-LHR (Beijing-London Heathrow) and landed short. That NEVER happens.

It's gonna be interesting. I haven't read the preliminary report yet.

No fire. Nothing to start a fire.

Strong winds. No fire. Short of the runway. Hmmm..... :rolleyes:



Somebody broke the cardinal rule - "Don't scratch the airplane". Somebody is not sleeping well right now.

[stevep]

a lot depends on how much heavier.
a well set up steel serotta/sachs/kirk,etc can be pretty easily built to probably 16.5/17 pounds or so....without going crazy
similar set up on something light and carbon might be 15/15.5 or so..
not that much different really.
when the bike get to be 4-5 pounds different the feel is altogether different.


Blue Jays, I was not implying that your answer was not honest or that I disagreed; but rather that it’s next to impossible to address the subject honestly due to myths and misunderstandings.

Besides, it’s a complex subject if treated with precision. IMO general trends regarding weight are simple but a comprehensive analysis is too involved for most of us. Bike weight, rotating weight, etc. in the real world can not be evaluated in a vacuum as many want to do.

Even the assumption that lower rotating weight is “always” faster is incorrect. There are exceptions to that also.

[Blue Jays]

Tobias, no worries, mate. No offense taken!

My input was based upon differences observed between bikes such as:

* older steel roadbikes
* modern aluminum mountainbikes
* modern titanium roadbikes
* modern carbon fiber roadbikes

:beer:

http://sbw.sportbikes.com/images/smilies/hi.gif

[Viper]

All I know is that post-Top Gun, Kelly McGillis went on to become Ms. Piggy, Tom Cruise lost his entire mind, Meg Ryan became a more mature version of Lindsey Lohan/Britney Spears, Goose became a wimpy Dr. on ER and Iceman became a light beer-drinking Jabba the Hutt.

*** people?

[Peter P.]

If I build up a steel bike/steel fork with light components and light wheels to say 16-17 or so lbs., what if at all will be the difference in ride, handling, etc. vs. building it up closer to say 20-21 lbs? Maybe this is obvious, but I would love to hear someone explain this.

The lighter bike will "feel" lighter so it will handle as if it feels lighter, but the lightness won't affect the geometry which will do more to dictate how the bike steers, leans, and turns.

The bike will accelerate faster, but it won't affect your steady state speeds any significant amount i.e., it won't make you significantly faster in time trials.

If you're riding road races and criteriums, the bike's weight becomes SO insignificant relative to how the race develops, the course profile, your fitness, individual strengths and weaknesses etc., that it's not worth considering.

To boil it all down: the lighter bike will NOT put you on the podium; YOU will put you on the podium.

I'd consider other things than weight-durability, affordability, fit, aesthetics.

[Tobias]

Steve, I may be misreading the original question, but it sounds to me like he wants to compare the same steel frame and fork built up with different components and wheels to make a difference of 4 or 5 pounds.

If that was indeed the gist of the question, then it’s likely that he will have to use significantly heavier wheels, tires, tubes, stem, bars, post, saddle, pedals, etc…..

I don't like to generalize, but I’d guess the 4- to 5-pound heavier build would feel more precise, more solid, and probably a little harsher on most roads. The lighter bike at about 25 percent less mass would feel much lighter under the rider but would only perform at most a couple of percent better during a very steep low-speed climb. The difference between feel and actual performance improvements would be significant. At steady state on flats or on descends the difference is so little it’s not worth discussing.

a lot depends on how much heavier.
a well set up steel serotta/sachs/kirk,etc can be pretty easily built to probably 16.5/17 pounds or so....without going crazy
similar set up on something light and carbon might be 15/15.5 or so..
not that much different really.
when the bike get to be 4-5 pounds different the feel is altogether different.

[capybaras]

try eating less

[swoop]

try eating less


or... mebbe its that mood stabilizers make you put on weight. you never know...

unless you're tom cruise and have studied the brain.