Another wheel question

[alembical]

I know that this and versions of this have been asked countless times, but here goes anyway. I am in the market for a new set of clincher daily-use wheels (campy compatible). I now have Mavic Open Pros and am likely to get them again, but I am curious of other options. What are the thoughts on:

1. Bontrager Race X-Lite - can this be converted to campy. (retial $749)
2. Am Classics 350 (around $550)
3. FSA RD 400's ($500)
4. Campy Nuetrons ($ ?)
5. Open Pros
6. Reynolds Alta Race Aluminum (?)

I am looking for a good training wheel, that can be ridden hard & raced some (if I get the bug). Everywhere I look, I get conflicting opinions about whether lighter matters, more aero matters, spoke count, dish, etc... and I just don't know. I am kind of hard on equipment and weigh 180 pounds, and am not a weight weenie (ride CSI, steel fork, no carbon or light weight parts currently on the bike). I don't want a race only wheel, or a wheel that needs truing every week or two. I live in Oregon and like riding the hills, especially going down them.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Alembical

One more question, I know that there is a DuraAce wheel, is it campy compatible, and if so, is it decent? Do they make an Ultegra wheel?

[bcm119]

I went through the same dilemma a few months ago. I ended up getting another set of OP's. I weigh 160 and this time I had them built with some very light wheelsmith "ae" bladed 15/17 spokes and alloy nips. I just love the classic look of OPs on a steel bike, and they are so reliable and strong without being heavy. If you want you can have a set of OPs built up pretty darn light. If I'd gone with pre-builts my choice would have been the Race x-lites because I know many folks who love them, but I didn't think they were worth the extra cost over OPs.

[alembical]

BCM, did you check out the AM Classics at all? Those have kind of peaked some interest in me, and that is when I started looking around at what is available.


Alembical

Edited to Add: this information copied from Dave Thomas's site, http://speeddream.com/road.php
R 359:
A breakthrough in lightweight clincher design featuring American Classic's new CR350 rim. At 360 gms they are lighter than most tubular rims. Novell rolling technique allows a lighter extrusion than ever before while retaining normal strength, for the ultimate in low rotational weight. Hubs are the same as the Aerolite wheels. Spokes are Wheelsmith; oval 15 gm ft, 25 radial, and 32 butted/oval, 3- cross/radial rear.

Ft. 580 gms rear 810 gms $529.00
then compare that to the Aerolites, which cost the same ($20 more), weigh just a hair more (100 grams more, but still under 1500 grams) but are more aero. How do these differences really play out?

Thanks for any thoughts, Alembical

[bcm119]

I looked into AC 350's, and to be honest, they just didn't excite me too much. This is all just opinion, but one thing that bothers me is their hubs- I can't imagine they would last as long as a dura ace or chorus hub. And I don't see much advantage in making the hub super light. I chose wheels with a heavy priority on durability, and I felt like the 350s were a little too light to last as long as I hope my wheelsets will last- about 4 years! I don't have the money to buy new wheels every year or 2.
Also, the 350 rim is a little deeper than an OP (by 5mm) and I didn't want to sacrifice any comfort. I've never ridden 350s, but I know from experience that deeper rims just don't feel as good on steel bikes. If you are not as concerned about durability as I am, they might be a fun choice, they sure are light as hell.

[alembical]

Thanks BCM, I would have to say that I do expect my next purchased wheels to last 25 K or so (3 years). I have no reason to switch from Open Pros, so that is what I will likely get again. Any idea what a set of 28/32 laced Open Pros with Chorus hubs weigh? I have no idea, 1800 grams?

Alembical

[bcm119]

Closer to 1700 grams. My OPs weigh about 1680 with DA hubs, alloy nips and spokes similar to revolutions, 32 front and rear, 3x.

Edit *I think Chorus hubs are a hair lighter than DA.

[vaxn8r]

I'm not sure I'd buy Neutrons. The Protons have the exact same rim so your weight difference is all in the hub. So you pay double the price to lose about 80g in the hub. not worth it IMO.

I think you'd like Protons in a prebuilt. I love mine and IMO are better than OP's maybe because the spoke offset but they feel "tighter" to me and I descend better on them than my 32sp OP's.

DA is a really good wheelset. I don't know about compatibility. They are expensive but I can vouch for them. They are about 1600g...probably close to the Ksyrium SL(my Ksyrium are 7 g lighter than my DA even though the claimed difference is about 100g...right!) I think Neutrons are about the same weight.

[vaxn8r]

I don't know if it's my weight or the wheels but I break DT Revolutions. Different wheelsets, front and back but more on back of course. I think they are prone to failure unless you're a lightweight.

[scottcw]

What are the thoughts on:

1. Bontrager Race X-Lite - can this be converted to campy. (retial $749)


I ordered my Race X-Lites for Campy. No conversion necessary. Great wheels, no problems.

[rwl]

The '04 X Llite can can converted easily (meaning, I think, a do-it-yourself operation). The earlier ones are more complicated (according to the FAQ on Bontrager's site).

Of course, you can always use an American Classic conversion cassette ($89), which is what I'm planning on doing.

-- Rick

[shinomaster]

I hear pretty good things about the Race lights, and campy wheels. The bontrager wheels are available in Campy and are pretty light and quite aero. I have Campy Zonda and Neutron wheels. For climbing I would go with the Proton or neutrons, but for going fast down hill or on the flats I like the Zonda, or the Eurus for more bucks...DBRK seems to like his scirocco wheels...check out www.cbike.com for wheel deals. The pre-built wheels are quite a bit more stiff. A local shop own told me today to stay away from Ritchey wheels, Velomax, spinergy and, Ksyriums....but he likes the Campy wheels. "The rest fall apart"

[Too Tall]

Ditto BCM119's advice in your situation and think you should at least consider two other possibilities. First, are tubs out of the question? Second, look at the Nimble "Spider" wheelset in a 28/32 ($530 for campag). Buy them and send your current hubs out for rebuild (CC?) with OPs and use them for training and general knocking about. Use the Spiders for weekends, racing etc.

[va rider]

To follow up on Shino's point. I have the Campy Eurus wheels, now with about 600 miles. I am currently commuting on them, while my commuter bike is in the shop. They are mid-profile and are absoltely awesome. There may be lighter wheels out there, more aero wheels out there, but for an all-arounder, these are tough to beat.

Read the reviews on roadbikereview.com. I paid $650 for them on cbike.

p.s. Alem - how is the knee?

[e-RICHIE]

does 1475gms sound right for the DT wheels?
i added up all the weights as listed in the QBP catalogue.
e-RICHIE

ps

:confused: :confused: :confused:
:confused: :confused: :confused:
:confused: :confused: :confused:

arrange disorder

[93legendti]

I have a set of AC 350's they do not ride any harsher than the Speed Dream wheels I have. I have several front wheels built w/ the AC Micro Hub and I have never had any trouble with them.

[Too Tall]

E-Twizzler - Light Conventional 32 X Wheel build
Open-Pro Rims, Dura-Ace hubs, DT revolution spokes in the front with alloy nipples, DT revolutions on the non-drive rear with alloy nipples, and DT competitions with brass nipples on the drive side. These wheels weigh about 1,600 to 1,650 grams.

Agreed, the AC micro hubs LOOK like they'd detonate but they just keep rolling and rolling. Strong and ridiculously light.

[e-RICHIE]

sorry - i was replying to the posts on the other threads and miscued. that weight i quoted was for dt 24s hubs, dt 1.1 rims, and their newest light spokes! 28 spokes at that.

[djg]

set of Campy Eurus wheels that I like real well and that--thus far--seem good and strong. No problems yet. Good wheels and trouble free.

I'm also your size and have a set of Mavic Ks that are a few years old now. Mine are the SSC model--the last run of the SSCs before the SLs. Aside from one instance of very slight hub adjustment in the beginning (20 seconds with the included tool) these have been absolutely bombproof. I've heard reports of cracks developing at the eyelets but I haven't seen any such thing on mine and they've been around a bit. (Haven't seen them on a couple of others either.) Good stiff wheels, great hubs, and not a wobble or a true yet. I know the Ks aren't popular on this board but--apart from current US retail, which I wouldn't pay--I don't share any of the reservations I've read here.

[alembical]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more thinking and looking.

VA Rider, the knee is coming slowly, but I can now ride on the road again. 35 miles saturday and 35 on Sunday, so it is coming slowly. Range of motion is really the only problem now; well that and the fact for some reason I can not figure out, I can't unclip with my left foot. I would not have thought that the knee would factor in unclipping. So, for around here, I have been wearing a commuter type (kind of MTB) shoe that allows me in traffic to get some pedals in without being clipped. Thanks for asking.

Thanks again everyone, Alembical

[alembical]

I just checked out Shino's link to Cbike and I realized that what I NEED is a set of Campy Hyperon Ultra Clinchers. Seems to fit the bill :D I wonder how many of these they really sell, a clincher at $3,200. Wow!

Alembical

[shinomaster]

I need the Bora wheelios , man they are some pair of fancy hoops.

[shinomaster]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more thinking and looking.

Keith, the knee is coming slowly, but I can now ride on the road again. 35 miles saturday and 35 on Sunday, so it is coming slowly. Range of motion is really the only problem now; well that and the fact for some reason I can not figure out, I can't unclip with my left foot. I would not have thought that the knee would factor in unclipping. So, for around here, I have been wearing a commuter type (kind of MTB) shoe that allows me in traffic to get some pedals in without being clipped. Thanks for asking.

Thanks again everyone, Alembical
Wow man you are riding more than I am! I rode up Skyline yesterday in the heat and luckily didn't pass out ... Wanna go for a flat one after work today or tomorrow?

[alembical]

Shino, check your PM.

Those two 35 milers were deceptively minor, due to the pace and effort. I am not sure I am ready for council Crest yet, but who knows.

Alembical

[alembical]

Campy follow-up question:

If the Protons and the Neutrons are the same, but for the hub; are the Eurus and the Zondas the same but for the hub as well? And if so, are the Eurus & Protons the same hub (& Neutrons & Zondas)? If so on all the above, is the hub upgrade worth the money? I know that is likely to have different answers from different people, as upgrade questions always do, but I am just curious.

The more I look at these issues, the more confused (if possible) I become. When comparing the Protons versuses the Eurus, the costs is similiar, weight similiar, and it seems to be an areo difference, but at this price point between these two wheels, is there really a difference? Or is it just more of a preference of looks? Is one design (Protons/neutron I would assume) more durable thand the Eurus/zondas? Is the g-3 lacing system any good, or is this one of those systems (like all the other paired systems) that people get real scared of, especially with a spoke breaking?

Thanks for any comments, if any one is paying attention to this rambling self-serving thread anymore.

Alembical

my limited info has been coming from here... http://www.cbike.com/campy.htm

[va rider]

Alem -

Go to the Campy USA website for the difference between the wheelsets. It is more than the hubs on the Zondas v. Eurus wheels. Is that worth the extra money to you, depends your intended use. I have the Eurus and love them. Though my buddy with the Zonda's loves his as well. I know Ozz has the Eurus wheels, and he would probably tell you to save the $$$ on the gucci wheels and go with something else. There are lots of good choices in this price range, including the custom builts.

Here is the link:
http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/SpecsWheelsEN.pdf

p.s. it was me who asked about your knee. glad to hear it is coming around.

[BarryG]

I have a set of AC 350's they do not ride any harsher than the Speed Dream wheels I have.

With all due respect: considering that "Speed Dream" is just a custom build of an off-the-shelf rim, plus the fact that Dave Thomas used to build wheels himself with AC 350 rims, 93LT's statement is just a tad ambiguous.

Agree with TT that AC hubs are robust AND they're quiet.

Alembical, the reason AC350's are not a good choice for you is because you're a 180lb'er that's admittedly hard on equipment.

Agree that OP's will have a more cushy ride than AC 350's. AC 350's when properly built give quite a stiff ride in a positive sense, but a tad harsh compared with OP's due to their 24mm deep aero (non-box) profile.

Barry

[shinomaster]

Here are the facts as this beer drinking fool sees them..

The Proton and neutrons have the same rims... the hubs are different, and the proton has round spokes. The neutron has aero bladed spokes.

The Scirocco and Zonda wheels have the same rims. The Eurus rim is the same except for the ground out sections that lighten it.

Last year the zonda hubs were the same as the protons..and the zonda front wheel had 20 spokes. This year the zonda wheels have 16 spokes on the front and a hpw record hub set. However this years claimed weight for a pair is more, 1730 grams per pair, vs last years weight of 1660. It makes no sense. This years wheels have fewer spokes and better hubs yet weight more??? Maybe hpw hubs are more heavy? hmmm...

ok this is all nonsense, but this is what I think it all means,

The best value maybe the protons. Stiff and light and good all around riding and climbing wheels . The Bladed spoke on the neutrons wont make you any faster. The rims are very boxy and not aero.

I hear the G3 spoke lacing is bomb proof. I know from experience it is quite stiff, and the wheels are fast on the flats. The zonda whels are not the fastest up a hill. They are slower to accelerate than a set of open pro's. Once you get them going though they are pretty fast. I'm sure the Eurus wheels are faster up hill but I'm not sure they are worth the extra money. For what cbike is asking for them the Zonda set is a great all around set of hoops. I AM happy with mine... The best part is that they look super cool. And really, that is all that matters.. :banana:

[bulliedawg]

This year the zonda wheels have 16 spokes on the front and a hpw record hub set. However this years claimed weight for a pair is more, 1730 grams per pair, vs last years weight of 1660. It makes no sense. This years wheels have fewer spokes and better hubs yet weight more??? Maybe hpw hubs are more heavy?

According to Dave Thomas at Speed Dream, more thinner spokes are lighter than fewer thicker spokes. That might help explain the 70 gram weight increase.

[Ozz]

... I know Ozz has the Eurus wheels, and he would probably tell you to save the $$$ on the gucci wheels and go with something else...

True, I've had my Eurus wheels for about a year and a half (3000+ miles?) and have had zero problems - other than one flat, but I can't really blame that on the wheels.

I weigh 180 lbs, and have hit plenty of bad roads with them. They are currently my only wheels, so I have used them for commuting also (potholes, train tracks, storm drains, curbs, etc).

My shop recommended them (Bike Gallery - Lake Oswego) over the Neutrons, saying that they have had no problems with them and lots of riders liked them. You can count me in that group also.

Va Rider is partly correct about my perceived value. My bike purchase was a "spare no expense" opportunity, so I went with a gucci wheelset over standard wheels (open pro, 3x, etc) because price didn't figure into my equation. I think they are just as durable as open pros, but ride a bit more harshly - just a bit. They do seem faster, once I get above 20 mph.

The bottomline is that I don't think you will be disappointed with the Eurus wheels durability or performance. How the cost factors into this equation is up to you.

BTW - my riding season is officially over. New baby arrived on Monday :banana: :banana:

[va rider]

Ozz- sorry I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth.

Also, Congrats on the new baby! (is this number two?) That is excellent news! I had a new baby in early June. And, I already have a 5 yr old and 3 1/2 yr old. I still ride a good amount, though I do bike commute 3 days a week. I get out really early on weekends (I am riding my 6:30 a.m. with my buddies) and still am getting decent miles. You will too.

-va.

[Ozz]

Va Rider - no worries, just thought I would clarify my unique "value" situation.

Uh oh...baby is crying...gotta run.

(yes, baby #2 (#1 is 3 1/2, with broken leg)