Internnal rust (un)real.

[2ez]

Here's a internal rust q'n.

On my newly made custom steel frame i discovered that my top tube as well as the rear seat stays have no holes to pour in a anti rust fluid.

Why is this a problem to me.

Well i wanted to put in framesaver or lineseed oil and this is fine as some tubes have holes, but the above not.

Would this mean that condensation water will not create internal rust in the top tube and rear seat stays?

The frame has been TIG welded.

I'm a bit worried about this.

[dbrk]

Some builders seal their tubes IF (hint) they think this keeps out the moisture in the first place. I've heard both sides arguing the wisdom of such a method.

Depending on where you live I think rust is over rated as a consideration (but I now use FrameSaver if only because it can only make things better). It's wet a lot where I live and I ride my all of steel bikes in all weathers. I don't pamper them but i wipe them down when I come in and store them in a dry place. I've never had a serious rust issue and I still own and ride the bike I bought in 1972, which has seen the worst things imaginable. YMMV.

dbrk

[rePhil]

I live where rust is an issue, even with pampering. So much so that I just can't justify spending big dollars on a frame that will need resprays every few years. My problems were mostly external. I treated the insides of all my steel frames, and never had any issues on the inside.
I switched to Ti.

[DarrenCT]

I live where rust is an issue, even with pampering. So much so that I just can't justify spending big dollars on a frame that will need resprays every few years. My problems were mostly external. I treated the insides of all my steel frames, and never had any issues on the inside.
I switched to Ti.

maybe u just needed a paint job with a good clear coat finish??

[2ez]

Picshooter,

Fortunately i don't live at such a environment like yours that however does not mean i don't worrie about it.

My biggest issue is that i want to protect the inner tubes, but i can't get there :crap:

However i do ride all year around, but only when the weather is dry.
Further my bike is stored in my kitchen so that helps i guess in pampering and keeping the moisture out (hopefully).

Also i believe that when the tubes are treated this will increase lifespan, but that's just the point in my case i can't treat all my inner tubes :crap:


Dkrp

The frames from lets say the mid 70's to mid 80's had thicker wall thickness and this surely helps in lifespan from rusting thru the tube itself.
Now due to the rather thin wall thickness of today's tubes makes me worrie for the reasons i mentioned.

Still i guess all i can do is make the best of it and treat the inner tubes where i can and just enjoy my bike.
It is what it is and i guess i just have to deal with that :rolleyes:

Thanks for the input :)

[thwart]

I have a relatively new frame (I´m the 2nd owner), with a significant amount of internal rust visible in the top tube. I´m trying to figure out if I should flex-hone it or do something similar (just to make me feel better), or just frame-save it 2 or 3 times and realize that the likelihood of the rust playing a functional rather than cosmetic role is slim unless it becomes my rain bike and I ride it a lot that way.

This particular frame had very little grease (almost none really) in the seat tube---for post insertion purposes---and I suspect that a few rain rides allowed water to collect in the open top tube and start the rust process.

An argument for closed tube ends, maybe... ?

[2ez]

thwart,

Try if you can tiny little cobblestones in the tube and just shake it with some terpentine or something similar.
Due to the sharpness of the little cobblestones (the ones that makes a hole in the tire's :-) the stones will remove some rust and any rust that is removed is good for ones night sleep.

Further one can measure how far the seatpost will go in and from that point to below have the seat tube treated with frame saver or lineseed oil or whatever.
Anything is better than nothing i guess.

Also put some grease around the point where the seattube enters the frame this will help to prevent rain coming in and doing is job.

[rePhil]

maybe u just needed a paint job with a good clear coat finish??

I wish it was that easy. My "problems" have pretty much been to cable stops and guides. Because the ferrules move within the stops and the cables squirm in top tube guides eventually the fretting gives a place for rust to start.
The most durable finish I have experienced to date other than Ti has been powder coat.
I use a product made by my former employer for coating the inside of tubes. It's intended use is Marine Engines used in corrosive / Saltwater.

[thwart]

2ez-
Thanks! Unfortunately this particular TT has a small opening (approx one third the circ of the tube itself) and I probably couldn´t get all the pebbles out. I´d be riding a rattle bike... :crap:

[Peter P.]

Some builders seal their tubes to prevent the penetration of moisture and consequently, the development of rust. If the tube is sealed, you should not worry about it.

Independent Fabrications seals their frame tubes, but since they can't seal the seat tube, they provide instructions on how to apply rust preventative coatings to the inside of the tube.

Of course, INTERNAL rust is only half the problem. EXTERNAL rust is the other, and they both need to be treated differently.

I've already mentioned the former; how about the latter?

Picshooter's observation about how rust forming at the cable guides is interesting, valid, and something I never considered. My personal experience has been rust developed EXTERNALLY due to sweat. 95% of my problem was on the top tube. Cable housing ran the entire length of the top tube and was the perfect place for sweat to collect, as well as difficult to clean, which I never did then. Both sides of my top tube look particularly nasty, especially after one repaint and one powdercoat job. It's now got two holes in it large enough to insert a paperclip. It has made me aware of some truths:

One; split cable guides on the top tube will help prevent rust better than an enclosed cable housing running along the top tube. They will also make the area easier to clean.

Two; SWEAT is a prime cause of external rust, so wipe your bike down after sweating on it, or exposing it to salty conditions such as when wet sand on the roads leftover from sanding winter roads, gets on your bike. I ride my commuter bike in the rain a lot and it's got no rust after 10 years, so I don't think plain water is the culprit. I wipe my frame down after every ride with a dampened 8x8" square of an old towel. I bound the edges so it doesn't fray. I'm not fastidious about it, i.e., removing wheels and such, but I do pay attention to the top tube cable guides, STI stops on the downtube, and around the waterbottle cages. It takes me two minutes, tops. I don't concern myself with the components because they're mostly aluminum, so rust isn't a concern.

I hope some of the framebuilders that view this forum will add their wisdom to the mix.

[Ken Robb]

I'm going to guess that a lot of moisture inside frames is athe result of bringing a bike that is cold from a ride on a chilly day into a heated garage or room causing condensation inside the tubes. Those of us who wear glasses know what I'm talking about. I don't think sealed tubes will stop that.

[rwsaunders]

Is there a lifetime warranty on the frame, in terms of internal rust? Perhaps you can contact the shop and or the builder and ask their opinion of how to apply the framesaver.

[KeithS]

Odd juxtaposition for me, I am having some work done on my older steel bike. Chatting with the mechanic and he asked me if I ever used framesaver and I admitted I hadn't, since this is my rain bike I said I probably should. He mentioned that one manufacturer suggests the application of framesaver every 3 months or whenever riden in wet conditions. Just went out there, sure enough, don't store it where it will get hot and cold transitions, and Framesaver often. I thought my bride was high maintenance..

Glad I ride Ti/CF. BTW IF you were wondering, same hint DBRK provided.

[saab2000]

I bought my Grandis SL frame in 1987. I brought it to France in 1988 and raced it there and rode it and raced in all over the US and Switzerland until the mid-90s. The first rust I noticed was the year Pedro Delgado won the Tour. Surface rust. I rode it up the Coudon et le Mont Faron in spite of the rust. Rode that effer 25 miles on a flat once there too from near Pierrefeu to Cap Brun. Still rides well today.

I still ride that beast several hundred miles per year. It has been across the ocean a good number of times.

The rust has affected exactly nothing.

Ride your bike. Ride it fast. Enjoy it. If you want a rustfree bike get a Ti bike. If you want a bike you'll remember forever get one that rusts.

[DarrenCT]

I bought my Grandis SL frame in 1987. I brought it to France in 1988 and raced it there and rode it and raced in all over the US and Switzerland until the mid-90s. The first rust I noticed was the year Pedro Delgado won the Tour. Surface rust.

I still ride that beast several hundred miles per year. It has been across the ocean a good number of times.

The rust has affected exactly nothing.

Ride your bike. Ride it fast. Enjoy it. If you want a rustfree bike get a Ti bike. If you want a bike you'll remember forever get one that rusts.

wow

well said

time for a beer

[Blue Jays]

I've got an older Pinarello with surface rust that forms on the chromed fork crowns. If I stay after it faithfully, most of the rust can be removed with naval jelly, Mother's Mag Polish, and strong elbow grease. Bike otherwise looks great...

[rwsaunders]

Ride your bike. Ride it fast. Enjoy it. If you want a rustfree bike get a Ti bike. If you want a bike you'll remember forever get one that rusts.

SAAB; I don't think that you ever have to worry about any of the steel builders plagiarizing your quote on their websites. On second thought, perhaps Bilenky might, though. They're a wild bunch of guys.:cool: