ot: ipod/mp3 ignorance

[eddief]

I do not own any ipod or mp3 device. My Rav4 has a stereo with an Ipod interface. So I'm thinking it might be fun to do the Ipod thing. I already have downloaded a bit of stuff from Itunes to create my own CD's.

What I want to know is can you mix formats on an Ipod. In other words can I download from Itunes as well as other non Itunes stores such as yahoo music, amazon, etc and mix the downloads on the one Ipod?

Let's start there.

[SoCalSteve]

Yes, as long as they are MP3's and not protected.

CD's will work as well through iTunes.

Good luck!

Steve

[konstantkarma]

is only one alternative for obtaining MP3s. You can also "rip" your personal CDs to MP3 files using several pieces of free software. My favorite is one called CDex. Then insert them into you Itunes library, and upload. Easy and painless.

CDex (http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/?q=download)

[Ray]

Yes, as long as they are MP3's and not protected.

I think RealAudio or RealPlayer or whatever they're called has a workaround to let you use their protected mp3 files on an Ipod also. I have a Creative Zen and so haven't tried it, but its another option if you don't want to be tied to Itunes all the time.

The car I just bought has an aux jack to hook up an ipod or other mp3 player directly, but it also takes WMA/MP3 cds in the cd player, which is pretty handy. I'd never used one of those before, but its really easy to burn a disk of the 20 or so albums I have in rotation at any given time in wma or mp3 format and always keep it in the car. Burn a new one every couple of weeks or so. Plenty of music for my typical driving and then take the mp3 player along for any longer road trips. I don't know if that works with itunes format music - can you download from itunes in mp3 or just in Apple's proprietary format?

-Ray

[SoCalSteve]

I think RealAudio or RealPlayer or whatever they're called has a workaround to let you use their protected mp3 files on an Ipod also. I have a Creative Zen and so haven't tried it, but its another option if you don't want to be tied to Itunes all the time.

The car I just bought has an aux jack to hook up an ipod or other mp3 player directly, but it also takes WMA/MP3 cds in the cd player, which is pretty handy. I'd never used one of those before, but its really easy to burn a disk of the 20 or so albums I have in rotation at any given time in wma or mp3 format and always keep it in the car. Burn a new one every couple of weeks or so. Plenty of music for my typical driving and then take the mp3 player along for any longer road trips. I don't know if that works with itunes format music - can you download from itunes in mp3 or just in Apple's proprietary format?
-Ray

iTunes format is mp3, plain and simple. Any sond will work through iTunes as long as it is mp3, not protected or iTunes can turn some other formats into mp3's as well (again, as long as they are NOT protected). Not sure there is any kind of "work-around" for iTunes and protected music.

The problem with buying music from iTunes is that it is not useable anywhere else but iTunes and an iPod....So, you spend your $.99 a song and the music is NO GOOD anywhere but through Apple s/w and hardware...quite the rip off!

Just sayin'

Steve

[FMS_rider]

My daughter just gave me an iPod clone for Christmas --a 2 Gbyte Sansa from Best Buy. I was using a Sony Walkman for my yoga tapes, which she found very amusing --she laughed out loud when she saw it. My s-Pod, as I call it, is a revelation --I now know why every “kid” I know has had an mp3 player for the past decade or so. It is not only much more convenient for yoga, but has had a major impact on my insomnia --it is easy to fall asleep with the ear buds. Perhaps best of all, the sound quality with the ear buds is so much better than my stereo (with Bose speakers) that it has rekindled my interest in music.

It took me something like an hour to master the software, including the program that came with it that enables me to convert my CDs to mp3 format (it wasn’t entirely straightforward as I suspect the Apple stuff is, but works just fine). It also installs a shortcut for buying music files through Best Buy, but I haven't tried it yet.

I copied a lot of music from my daughter's iPod, and was initially puzzled because I could play it through my laptop from the memory on the attached s-Pod but it was invisible on the s-Pod itself. After some Googling I discovered that her music is in mp4a --I presume the "a" signifies an Apple proprietary format.

After a bit more Googling (and fighting off an attempted virus attack) I found a good shareware program that converts mp4a to mp3: “Switch” --it works perfectly and is convenient to use. Here’s the link: http://www.nch.com.au/index.html --hit the Download tab and Switch is at the top of the list.

Good luck.
Lew

[Ray]

iTunes format is mp3, plain and simple. Any sond will work through iTunes as long as it is mp3, not protected or iTunes can turn some other formats into mp3's as well (again, as long as they are NOT protected).

The problem with buying music from iTunes is that it is not useable anywhere else but iTunes and an iPod....So, you spend your $.99 a song and the music is NO GOOD anywhere but through Apple s/w and hardware...quite the rip off!

I thought Apple used a different format, like AAC, or something like that? If it was just pure mp3, I should be able to play them on my Creative Zen. But as you said, you can ONLY play them on ipods. Anything I buy from Real Audio I can download onto just about any device pretty seamlessly (I have a creative, my wife has a sansa, and my daughter has a Rio, and I can put the same music on all of those). Except the Ipod. Which, as I said, they have a workaround for, but I read the instructions and it sounded like a pain in the butt.

Yeah, Apple is the 800 pound gorilla in the mp3 world and they're just as obnoxious as IBM was in the early days of the PC. Perhaps they'll end up in the same place, but Apple seems to be able to continue to out-innovate and out-design the other makers. For now, at least.

-Ray

[davep]

iTunes format is mp3, plain and simple. Any sond will work through iTunes as long as it is mp3, not protected or iTunes can turn some other formats into mp3's as well (again, as long as they are NOT protected). Not sure there is any kind of "work-around" for iTunes and protected music.
Well, sort of. From Wikipedia: "Tunes 7 can currently read, write, and convert between MP3, AIFF, WAV, MPEG-4, AAC, and Apple Lossless. iTunes can also play any audio files that QuickTime can play (as well as some video formats), including Protected AAC files from the iTunes Store and Audible.com audio books."

The problem with buying music from iTunes is that it is not useable anywhere else but iTunes and an iPod....So, you spend your $.99 a song and the music is NO GOOD anywhere but through Apple s/w and hardware...quite the rip off!

Just sayin'

Steve

This is because record labels demanded DRM (digital rights management) as a condition of letting Apple sell music on iTunes. iTunes now sells some music that is not copy protected, as do the new Amazon store and number of other outlets, which you can play on the iPod.

[FMS_rider]

I am quite sure that the mp4a files I got from my daughter's ipod were purchased from the Apple site, and the shareware program I cited in my earlier post converted them to mp3s that I could play on my ipod clone. You can drag a long list of files into the program and it does the conversion in the background. However I will check with her --perhaps they have changed the format after she downloaded them, or she might have already laundered them with another program.

[Dave]

Im curious to know if you can download all of the files from your Ipod to a PC or external hard drive for backup, so the files aren't all lost when the Ipod inevitably fails. Hundreds of downloaded songs represent hundreds of potentially lost dollars.

[SoCalSteve]

Im curious to know if you can download all of the files from your Ipod to a PC or external hard drive for backup, so the files aren't all lost when the Ipod inevitably fails. Hundreds of downloaded songs represent hundreds of potentially lost dollars.

iTunes does not let you do this from your iPod. The music you have in iTunes is on amy hard drive you chose.

There is 3rd party software that does let you take whatever music you have on your iPod and back it up to a hard drive of your choosing...

I have pretty much hand selected about 1,100 songs that are now on my iPod (8 gig nano). I would hate to have to go through this selection process again. So, I spent the $20.00 and bought "iPodcopy" a 3rd party piece of s/w that allows me to back up my iPod.

Also, when I gave my wife my 4 gig I was able to pull off all the music from it and put it in my 8 gig. iTunes does not allow this to happen. You need 3rd party s/w to do this.

[FMS_rider]

I am quite sure that the mp4a files I got from my daughter's ipod were purchased from the Apple site, and the shareware program I cited in my earlier post converted them to mp3s that I could play on my ipod clone. You can drag a long list of files into the program and it does the conversion in the background. However I will check with her --perhaps they have changed the format after she downloaded them, or she might have already laundered them with another program. I checked with my daughter --it turns out that a friend of hers had already done the conversion on her ipod files --I got them off her hard drive, not the ipod directly. Sorry for the misinformation. Lew

[Bernie]

Some good info here. SoCalSteve got a lot right.

Think of ITunes as a software that allows you to manage audio files, load them into your Ipod, sort them and listen to them on your computer, burn cd's to listen to in your car (limited number), buy from the retail store that apple has thru download, etc. It is the only software I know of that lets you load music onto your IPod, but maybe there are some 3rd party softwares out there that will do it as well.

You can upload nearly any audio file into ITunes, and then in turn load it onto your IPod. The software will do the conversion for you, be it a CD, an audio file you have on your PC (maybe your music library in Windows Media), or other mp3 and audio files. Downloads from other sources can be put into ITunes as long as they are not protected files.

Where I find Itunes to be a pain in the butt is if you ever lose your hard drive on your computer, you lose everything you have purchased or placed into itunes. I would strongly recommend you find a 3rd party backup software that lets you save it so if something ever happens to your computer, you at least can save and reuse your music library. This type of cr#p seems peculiar to itunes, as there is no trouble saving and reusing any of the other music I have on my computer thru an external hard drive.

[SoCalSteve]

Some good info here. SoCalSteve got a lot right.

Think of ITunes as a software that allows you to manage audio files, load them into your Ipod, sort them and listen to them on your computer, burn cd's to listen to in your car (limited number), buy from the retail store that apple has thru download, etc. It is the only software I know of that lets you load music onto your IPod, but maybe there are some 3rd party softwares out there that will do it as well.

You can upload nearly any audio file into ITunes, and then in turn load it onto your IPod. The software will do the conversion for you, be it a CD, an audio file you have on your PC (maybe your music library in Windows Media), or other mp3 and audio files. Downloads from other sources can be put into ITunes as long as they are not protected files.

Where I find Itunes to be a pain in the butt is if you ever lose your hard drive on your computer, you lose everything you have purchased or placed into itunes. I would strongly recommend you find a 3rd party backup software that lets you save it so if something ever happens to your computer, you at least can save and reuse your music library. This type of cr#p seems peculiar to itunes, as there is no trouble saving and reusing any of the other music I have on my computer thru an external hard drive.

Here ya go:

http://www.wideanglesoftware.com/ipodcopy/?gclid=COC20IaK8pACFRUmawodOV651Q

Works really well. I have a copy of it myself and back up every few months or so.

Good luck!

Steve

[konstantkarma]

"own" your music (MP3s) and have a permanent backup, buy CDs and rip them. No proprietary digital rights management (DRM) to keep them from playing on your player. It is absurd that Itunes charges you .99 or so for a song that you have limited options with. Alternatively, lot of web sites are available that sell straight MP3s. No proprietary formats. For example, Amazon.com.

[SoCalSteve]

"own" your music (MP3s) and have a permanent backup, buy CDs and rip them. No proprietary digital rights management (DRM) to keep them from playing on your player. It is absurd that Itunes charges you .99 or so for a song that you have limited options with. Alternatively, lot of web sites are available that sell straight MP3s. No proprietary formats. For example, Amazon.com.

Or: http://www.mp3search.ru/

Give them a whirl (you can thank me later!)

Just sayin'

Steve

[Bernie]

"own" your music (MP3s) and have a permanent backup, buy CDs and rip them. No proprietary digital rights management (DRM) to keep them from playing on your player. It is absurd that Itunes charges you .99 or so for a song that you have limited options with. Alternatively, lot of web sites are available that sell straight MP3s. No proprietary formats. For example, Amazon.com.


Yeah, you are right, a lot of web sites let you buy mp3s without the DRM crap that you suffer thru I tunes. However, you still have to use Itunes to put in onto your Ipod, consequently you have to deal with Itunes if you have an apple device (I'm saying this without full understanding of the 3rd party software out there to back up your Ipod that SoCalSteve noted..If someone knows a way to load up and use the ipod without Itunes then let me know). For mainly that reason I bought my daughters IRiver MP3 players years ago. Smaller, less expensive, better warranty, greater storage and a longer battery/run time than the comparable Ipod at the time. However, Ipods and Apple are the 800 lb gorilla. If you want a docking station, then it better be an apple product or very little is out on the market, and this is true about most any accessory.

[csm]

I have an ipod nano 8gb. I love it. it works.

[davep]

Where I find Itunes to be a pain in the butt is if you ever lose your hard drive on your computer, you lose everything you have purchased or placed into itunes. I would strongly recommend you find a 3rd party backup software that lets you save it so if something ever happens to your computer, you at least can save and reuse your music library. This type of cr#p seems peculiar to itunes, as there is no trouble saving and reusing any of the other music I have on my computer thru an external hard drive.

Its a better idea to have software to backup your entire hard drive. And if you don't, why do you need specialized software to backup your music files? Your music files are generally in a folder named iTunes Music, just copy it to an external hard drive.

[Grant McLean]

There is a lot of half truths and misinformation is this thread.
I'd suggest checking out a more Apple informed forum for answers.



-g

[Grant McLean]

The problem with buying music from iTunes is that it is not useable anywhere else but iTunes and an iPod....So, you spend your $.99 a song and the music is NO GOOD anywhere but through Apple s/w and hardware...quite the rip off!

Just sayin'

Steve

Say what?

Burn your iTunes purchases to an audio CD,
and you can use them anywhere you want...
even re-import them to any MP3 application
for use on a non-apple player.

Time to get on the ball there my pal,

just sayin'

-g

[Grant McLean]

Yeah, you are right, a lot of web sites let you buy mp3s without the DRM crap that you suffer thru I tunes.

I guess i'm anti DRM too,
but what exactly are you wanting to do with your songs that you can't with iTunes?

-g

[djg]

[

[SoCalSteve]

Say what?

Burn your iTunes purchases to an audio CD,
and you can use them anywhere you want...
even re-import them to any MP3 application
for use on a non-apple player.
Time to get on the ball there my pal,

just sayin'

-g

Of course you can do this! What a HUGE PITA it is! And, so unbelieveably time consuming!!!

Why not just buy them at a fraction of the cost (in MP3 format) and then just one click and they are imported into iTunes...

Again: http://www.mp3search.ru/

You can thank me later!

Just sayin'

Steve

[Ray]

Again: http://www.mp3search.ru/

You can thank me later!

Just sayin'

Steve
Do you know anything about the US legality of that site? They talk about something called "fairlaw" as the regs they follow, but the link to the details was broken and I don't know anything about whether the artists get royalties when I buy something from them? Their prices are too good to believe that everything is on the up and up. I know this doesn't mean a lot to some folks, but I'm not into ripping off artists and, if I was, I wouldn't want to pay some Russian business-geek for making it easier.

What do you know?

-Ray

[chrisroph]

is there a way of taking the music off of an ipod formatted for mac and loading it on to a non mac computer? whe conected to the windows computer, the mac formatted ipod triggers a message asking if you want to reformat the ipod for windows. and, ipod copy does not recognize the ipod.

[rounder]

Some good info here. SoCalSteve got a lot right.

Think of ITunes as a software that allows you to manage audio files, load them into your Ipod, sort them and listen to them on your computer, burn cd's to listen to in your car (limited number), buy from the retail store that apple has thru download, etc. It is the only software I know of that lets you load music onto your IPod, but maybe there are some 3rd party softwares out there that will do it as well.

You can upload nearly any audio file into ITunes, and then in turn load it onto your IPod. The software will do the conversion for you, be it a CD, an audio file you have on your PC (maybe your music library in Windows Media), or other mp3 and audio files. Downloads from other sources can be put into ITunes as long as they are not protected files.

Where I find Itunes to be a pain in the butt is if you ever lose your hard drive on your computer, you lose everything you have purchased or placed into itunes. I would strongly recommend you find a 3rd party backup software that lets you save it so if something ever happens to your computer, you at least can save and reuse your music library. This type of cr#p seems peculiar to itunes, as there is no trouble saving and reusing any of the other music I have on my computer thru an external hard drive.


I can confirm that it is a pain in the butt when your hard drive crashes. Besides losing irreplaceable pictures and other stuff that was gone forever, I lost about 200-300 albums that were in my Itunes library. I had to re-load all of the CDs into my Itunes library and it took hours. My solution to prevent it happening again was to get an external hard drive and save all of my and wife's files into My Documents. From time to time, I copy everything from My Documents (including Itunes) into the external hard drive and let it overwrite what is already there (periodic file backup). I also copied my Itunes library onto my laptop, so now have a pretty large music supply to listen to on both my iPod and laptop when commuting and traveling

[Grant McLean]

is there a way of taking the music off of an ipod formatted for mac and loading it on to a non mac computer? whe conected to the windows computer, the mac formatted ipod triggers a message asking if you want to reformat the ipod for windows. and, ipod copy does not recognize the ipod.

Just to be clear, your music isn't really in your iPod.

Your music is held in a library in your computer.

When you plug an iPod into the computer, it erases what's on the iPod,
and replaces the current content of the library from the attached computer.
So you can use an iPod with more than one computer.

If you want to transfer music from one computer to another computer,
your iPod is not designed to do this, for obvious copyright issues.
To move your music to another computer, you need to transfer the contents
from the library of your hard drive.

Also, note that if you are using the most current copy of iTunes, you can
switch between windows and mac with your iPod without any problem.
Music files are not "apple" or "pc"... they are in the format they are, it works
with both, given the application.

again... go see a iTunes forum for the best info...this is a bike forum.

-g

[Grant McLean]

Of course you can do this! What a HUGE PITA it is! And, so unbelieveably time consuming!!!

Why not just buy them at a fraction of the cost (in MP3 format) and then just one click and they are imported into iTunes...

Again: http://www.mp3search.ru/

You can thank me later!

Just sayin'

Steve

what do you mean "of couse it can be done"... you said:
"The problem with buying music from iTunes is that it is not useable anywhere else"
Just sayin' that's not true.

So i don't even really need to argue that it's not too much work
to rip 15 or so songs onto a cd when you buy the tracks,
it takes like what, 2 minutes of your time?

I don't buy mp3, personally, the sound sucks.
I keep hard copy backups of my music, usually burn to 5 gig dvds
but personally, I think iTunes is the greatest application ever designed
for a computer, and I don't think it needs the iTunes music store to
be part of the feature. Between podcasts, playlists, buring, syncing,
and organizing, and coverflow... it's awesome. It's just too bad that
most people's experience with iTunes is on a PC, it looks crappy compared
to what iTunes looks like on a mac. atmo.


-g

[djg]

Just to be clear, your music isn't really in your iPod.

Your music is held in a library in your computer.

When you plug an iPod into the computer, it erases what's on the iPod,
and replaces the current content of the library from the attached computer.
So you can use an iPod with more than one computer.



-g

Is that right? I don't know a darn thing about quirks that might or might not reside with Apple's system, but I'm pretty sure that my mp3 player -- which basically is a glorified flash memory with some controls, a screen, etc. -- has the music "in" it (that is, the files containing the code for the music in mp3 format are saved in its memory) and that nothing is automatically erased when I plug into my laptop's usb port (the preferred method of recharging the mp3 player).

[Grant McLean]

Is that right? I don't know a darn thing about quirks that might or might not reside with Apple's system, but I'm pretty sure that my mp3 player -- which basically is a glorified flash memory with some controls, a screen, etc. -- has the music "in" it (that is, the files containing the code for the music in mp3 format are saved in its memory) and that nothing is automatically erased when I plug into my laptop's usb port (the preferred method of recharging the mp3 player).


The rules for the way an iPod is formatted is different from other MP3 players,
in a deal that was forced on Apple by the record labels.

When Apple signed the deals for the iTunes music store, to allow them to
sell downloads, the record companies forced Apple to disable the feature
of 'uploading' the content of the iPod to the computer.

It can easily be hacked back. The stock iPod setting just has the feature
disabled to that your computer doesn't "see" the content on the iPod, it's
set up to "sync" the content that's dictated by the computer.

If you google "ipod music upload" you'll find lots of ways to restore that feature.

-g

[chrisroph]

here's why i asked: i have a considerable catalog of music on vinyl albums and cd's. my kids got me an ipod for christmas. i haven't really started loading any of my cd's on to my computer. instead, a friend who runs mac loaded a bunch of his music on to my ipod. some of it is great music that i do not own. but i miss my tunes. whenever i plug my ipod in to my computer to recharge the battery, i am asked if i want to reformat the ipod for windows. i always reply no because i assume that the computer will overwrite onto the ipod my presently paltry library and i will lose my friends music. i'd like to load the music from my ipod (my friends library) on to my computer, if possible, and then also load some of my music. that way, i could load the music from my computer (comprising my friend's library and my library) on to my ipod and not have to choose either or.

[bostondrunk]

OK, I have a question.....I believe the answer is no, but:

If I have a ton of songs in Itunes (thus in itunes format), is there any way to export them out of itunes to MP3 files, other than burning a huge amount of audio cd's and then ripping them (at roughly 17 songs per cd...PITA)?
I have a car stereo that works with MP3, which is the main reason I am interested.

[Dekonick]

FWIW -

Burned disks are not a good permanent back up solution. The 'film' on the disks that is burned deteriorate with time - so that back-up CD or DVD may end up garbled junk...

I believe CD's - as long as they are pressed and not burned - are less prone to losing your data...problem is you can't press your own CD or DVD's...

An external HD AND bruned media (that you re-burn every couple of years) seem a better way to minimize the risk.

[eddief]

what is the world coming to when it is this complicated? i am glad i asked the question. i am gladder to have gotten some answers. unfortunately it appears more complicated and diverse than i could have imagined. guess i get to buy one and speriment. just like learning about anything new. an adult adventure. lifelong learning, blah blah blah.

seems as if i am not the only johnqpublic confusedly considering portable music players.

[Dekonick]

Blame DRM

[Grant McLean]

I have a car stereo that works with MP3, which is the main reason I am interested.


I think the popular course is to just plug your iPod into your car.
or get a car kit that transmits your ipod on FM,
and playback through the radio.

Burning discs to play on mp3 cd's still is a crappy solution,
regardless if you have acc/mp4 songs to convert or not!

-g

[Grant McLean]

here's why i asked: i have a considerable catalog of music on vinyl albums and cd's. my kids got me an ipod for christmas. i haven't really started loading any of my cd's on to my computer. instead, a friend who runs mac loaded a bunch of his music on to my ipod. some of it is great music that i do not own. but i miss my tunes. whenever i plug my ipod in to my computer to recharge the battery, i am asked if i want to reformat the ipod for windows. i always reply no because i assume that the computer will overwrite onto the ipod my presently paltry library and i will lose my friends music. i'd like to load the music from my ipod (my friends library) on to my computer, if possible, and then also load some of my music. that way, i could load the music from my computer (comprising my friend's library and my library) on to my ipod and not have to choose either or.

If you are not a lifetime apple lover, and diehard mac user,
BEFORE you load your CD's onto your computer, CHANGE THE DEFAULT.

Itunes will encode your cd's in apple ACC format if you don't change it.
choose to import your cd's in MP3 format, and preferably at a higher
bit rate of 160 kb/s for better sound quality. (see below attachment)


loading your friends music is stealing.

If you want to steal his music, here's how:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pc+ipod+upload&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

for more info, here's a great site:

www.ilounge.com

-g

[chrisroph]

thanks g i'll give it a shot. but its not stealing, its personal use. also, i buy a lot of music.

[Ray]

I think the popular course is to just plug your iPod into your car.
or get a car kit that transmits your ipod on FM,
and playback through the radio.

Burning discs to play on mp3 cd's still is a crappy solution,
regardless if you have acc/mp4 songs to convert or not!

-g
Plugging into the car stereo is the way to go if you have an aux plug - my new car has one and it's very nice not to mess with tape deck adapters or FM transmitters. Tape deck adapters work well enough, but are noisy as hell. FM transmitters suck in any sort of urban environment with lots of FM stations. Very tough to find a good frequency and I always had to hunt for new frequencies as I went through new places on a road trip. I always hated using those things and generally avoided them.

My new car also plays wma and mp3 discs and I like that as an every day solution. I'll certainly take my player on any long road trips, but for the minimal day to day driving I do, just having one or two wma or mp3 cds of the stuff I'm listening to lately in the car is a very nice option. They each hold 10-20 albums worth of music and it takes no time to burn a new one when you want to change your play list. In the first few weeks in a car with this option, I've been using one of these discs and the radio for all local driving and I took the mp3 player on the one short road trip I've done so far.

-Ray

[Grant McLean]

more info on converting aac files into MP3 :

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLR,GGLR:2006-44,GGLR:en&q=convert+aac+to+mp3+free


more info at www.ilounge.com

can't say enough good things about this site.

-g

[djg]

The rules for the way an iPod is formatted is different from other MP3 players,
in a deal that was forced on Apple by the record labels.

When Apple signed the deals for the iTunes music store, to allow them to
sell downloads, the record companies forced Apple to disable the feature
of 'uploading' the content of the iPod to the computer.

It can easily be hacked back. The stock iPod setting just has the feature
disabled to that your computer doesn't "see" the content on the iPod, it's
set up to "sync" the content that's dictated by the computer.

If you google "ipod music upload" you'll find lots of ways to restore that feature.

-g

Interesting. I guess then, I'm a bit extra-glad for having dealt with the folks at sansa/san disk instead (despite the relatively huge and available selection of I-pod compatible independent extras, attachments, etc.)

[Grant McLean]

Interesting. I guess then, I'm a bit extra-glad for having dealt with the folks at sansa/san disk instead (despite the relatively huge and available selection of I-pod compatible independent extras, attachments, etc.)

The issue is the iTunes music store files you purchase for download,
not the iPod.

You're free to put whatever format music you want on the iPod...

-g