Car dealers crack me up.

[J.Greene]

I'm in the process of negotiating the price on a new Honda for my Mom. To me it's just a commodity. I just dial around to the 5-6 closest dealers and take the best price. I state what I'm looking for upfront and don't play the dealers off one another usually.

Yesterday a dealer about 40 miles away quoted me a really good price, an out the door, sign and drive price :). A closer dealer didn't give me a price, they just said they'd match whatever I found. The sales gal said she'd could match any price.

Later when I told her what I had in writing she said she'd get right back to me and we'd conclude the deal. Well it turns out she could not match the further Honda dealer. I'm going with the further dealer because it's the best deal but I got a chuckle with the idea that "could price match" and "price match" are not the same things.

The funny part of the whole story is the dealer I'm getting the car from does not have the exact model/color in stock and is getting the car from the closer dealer.

JG

[t. swartz]

also, beware of the "located a car at a nearby dealership"-"nearby" usually means nebraska. then, they drive the car to your local dealership from nebraska (or from parts unknown) which adds however many thousand miles to the odometer of your "new" car. so you basically get a used car. a dealer in orlando tried that with me-i insisted they ship it on a car transport, the cost of which was added to my final price, non-negotiable. i walked. :crap:
so i special ordered my new car at another dealership (it's in palm bay with a blue oval logo...); 6 weeks later it was delivered with 1 mile on the odo... :banana:

[CaliFly]

Well it turns out she could not match the further Honda dealer.

It's likely she "wouldn't" match the price rather than "couldn't". She just didn't want to drop more of her commission.

[J.Greene]

It's likely she "wouldn't" match the price rather than "couldn't". She just didn't want to drop more of her commission.

same thing.

Interestingly this sales gal works many dealerships for her parent company. He office/desk was not even at a dealership. It would not surprise me if she was more volume oriented.

JG

[WadePatton]

The fiction of "MSRP" in any sales situation amuses me.

[saab2000]

When I bought my GTI I researched a bit and found the invoice price. I don't know if it's a real sham or not, but I told them I'd pay invoice plus a couple hundred. And I really was ready to walk away from the deal.

Oddly, they came back and accepted it. No hassle. I actually liked that.

Still, as much as I like the car, I don't like the payments each month and when this one is paid off there will be no new cars for me for a long, long time.

[djg]

I like the internet thing. You send out your specs for bids, you have a couple back-and-forths to nail down the everything, out the door number, and, typically, you do much better than just asking or calling around.

We bought the wife a new mini-van this past fall. We looked at the neighborhood Honda dealer and, with a little discussion, but no pull out the checkbook we're buying today or walking today sturm und drang, we got an ok but uninspiring price. They said they might do a bit better when we were really ready. The woman my wife spoke to initially seemed nice, and helpful, and keen to make a deal, so I thought I'd give her a shot after doing the electronic bid solicitation (which produced a bid about 1700 bucks lower than the one we'd been offered at her dealership before). After several calls, and back and forth, she got to within about 700 bucks of the best other bid, but I wasn't interested -- I'd gladly have paid a little more to stay in the neighborhood and reward the initial pitch -- a couple hundred bucks give or take -- but 700 was more than I felt like shelling out to one car dealer who really didn't mean anything more to me than the one in the more distant suburb (who proved, despite the nearby dealer's "caution," to be perfectly straightforward and reliable).

[J.Greene]

I like the internet thing. You send out your specs for bids, you have a couple back-and-forths to nail down the everything, out the door number, and, typically, you do much better than just asking or calling around.


That was the start of my process, but pretty quick you got to pick up the phone and talk to someone.

JG

[redir]

When I bought my GTI I researched a bit and found the invoice price. I don't know if it's a real sham or not, but I told them I'd pay invoice plus a couple hundred. And I really was ready to walk away from the deal.

Oddly, they came back and accepted it. No hassle. I actually liked that.

Still, as much as I like the car, I don't like the payments each month and when this one is paid off there will be no new cars for me for a long, long time.
That's how my Dad always bought a car and it worked every time. You just go in there all matter of fact and they either take it or leave it. Dealerships just want to move product.

My general rule of thumb is that I will never pay over 3K for a car. It's worked great for me so far. If you shop around it works. Or if you have good friends, my current ride is a Mercedes e420 I picked up for just over 2K :)

[Kervin]

What if I got my bike stuff the same way and posted a story how I saved $300 on a $5000 bike? Would that be cool? You can guess that I sell cars to support my family.

[dbrk]

I may be stupid about this but when my dealer offered me what I thought was fair, I took it. Since then I have had half a dozen little things and all were done immediately and for no cost. I think there's less margin on certain cars or with dealers less wiling to move. I bought rugs in India in my day, so I know from a good haggle and walk away. It just depends what you think the deal is. In bike shops I never ask for a deal, never haggle. Sometimes I buy on the web to save if it's a lot, sometimes not. Keepin' it local matters some to me. In my neck of the woods (and that's literal, given the woods here), you need some friends.

dbrk

[J.Greene]

What if I got my bike stuff the same way and posted a story how I saved $300 on a $5000 bike? Would that be cool? You can guess that I sell cars to support my family.

A car is a commodity to me in this case. I was completely honest with what it would take to win my business. I knew what I wanted and didn't waste anyone's time.

I make my living in an industry that is commoditized. If all I sell is product we get beat on for price. So I have learned that I have to sell my services and expertise to make my living. Bike shops that are good do that also.

I have a problem with people who will use a sales person (bike, car, investment) to get knowledge then just go buy off the internet. I did not do that here.

JG

[Fixed]

I hate cars they want to hurt me
cheers :beer:

[sg8357]

What if I got my bike stuff the same way and posted a story how I saved $300 on a $5000 bike? Would that be cool? You can guess that I sell cars to support my family.

A Tale of two Ford dealers, me leasing a car.

One dealer would give me the price of the car and lease info,
I do the calc, the price in the lease and the price the dealer tells me
match.

The other dealer will hem and haw about monthly payments, the price
they quote on the car and the lease numbers don't jive.

Then there is the Saturn dealer, he shows me the area used car guide
with the wholesale for my trade, so no mystery there, the price on the
car matches the lease numbers, time spent jawing 15min, no bs.
Now if the cars were better I'd just drive a Saturn.

I bought the Ford, from dealer one, even the finance guy was quick,
with no mystery charges.

Some car dealers are fine, some are hmmmm, exploiting the mathematically challenged lets say,
which makes them no worse than lottery agents or credit card companies, but I still don't like it.

[Ray]

I may be stupid about this but when my dealer offered me what I thought was fair, I took it. Since then I have had half a dozen little things and all were done immediately and for no cost.
My approach is to go to the local dealer for a test drive and to figure out what I want. Then I shop around a bit for price. Then I let the local dealer match the best price and get the sale. Sometimes they don't QUITE match it, but if the difference is small enough, I still buy from them. Nobody's gonna sell the same car in the same market for a notably different amount. I'd like to give the local dealer my business for the reason Douglas states.

In terms of shopping for price, I check out what the invoice price is and whether there are any dealer incentives or anything else to move the bottom line dealer cost. I know that since buyers started doing this the car makers started hiding some of the dealer profit, so even if the car sells at invoice, they're making something on it. If it's a high volume car and you know they have a zillion of them in stock (easy enough to find out through auto trader or something), I usually just offer them invoice (minus any incentives) plus a few hundred dollars. I've never been turned down, although I know there are situations when a car is really hot and in short supply that you basically pay the sticker price if you want one. I don't tend to buy those cars though.

-Ray

[J.Greene]

A Tale of two Ford dealers, .

Ford is an interesting case. They have expanded their X plan pricing plan to friends as well as family. I saw an email recently that read that Ford was asking retired employees to help sell cars by offering a pin code (required for x plan) to friends. Ford is essentially cutting traditional salesmen out of the loop with this strategy. Pricing is something like 99.6% of invoice plus $75. Works for Volvo and Jag too for the time being.

JG

[93legendti]

I'm in the process of negotiating the price on a new Honda for my Mom. To me it's just a commodity. I just dial around to the 5-6 closest dealers and take the best price. I state what I'm looking for upfront and don't play the dealers off one another usually.

Yesterday a dealer about 40 miles away quoted me a really good price, an out the door, sign and drive price :). A closer dealer didn't give me a price, they just said they'd match whatever I found. The sales gal said she'd could match any price.

Later when I told her what I had in writing she said she'd get right back to me and we'd conclude the deal. Well it turns out she could not match the further Honda dealer. I'm going with the further dealer because it's the best deal but I got a chuckle with the idea that "could price match" and "price match" are not the same things.

The funny part of the whole story is the dealer I'm getting the car from does not have the exact model/color in stock and is getting the car from the closer dealer.

JG
Same thing happened to me when I got my Volvo XC90. I took it up with the owner of the dealership and ended up with a screaming deal. As I see it up, the salesperson did me a favor.

[Volant]

Why don't dealers sell the new car at wholesale? That's what they offer for your trade. They should be apples-to-apples; after all, if you drove the car off the lot and turned around to trade it back in (except where law allows a 3-day grace period) do you think they'd give you what you paid? Nope. They'd go to the wholesale price on your 'new' vehicle.
For me, there's no need for car dealers (almost all cars are commodities). I just wish I could buy direct. I could do final prep myself. But, I guess I'm the exception. I have to go overhaul my engine now....

[YO!!!]

Why buy new???

In recent years a grey market of quasi dealers has emerged. These folks are buying program cars from all the major manufacturers, since they can not dispense of their off lease vehicles through their own dealerships. The vehicles are mostly 3 years old or newer and have less than 40k miles. Generally prices are 20-30% below the going used car rates and many have original factory warranties in place for 6-18 months.

[Pete Serotta]

I may be stupid about this but when my dealer offered me what I thought was fair, I took it. Since then I have had half a dozen little things and all were done immediately and for no cost. I think there's less margin on certain cars or with dealers less wiling to move. I bought rugs in India in my day, so I know from a good haggle and walk away. It just depends what you think the deal is. In bike shops I never ask for a deal, never haggle. Sometimes I buy on the web to save if it's a lot, sometimes not. Keepin' it local matters some to me. In my neck of the woods (and that's literal, given the woods here), you need some friends.

dbrk


Sir Douglas is a wise man.... THe true cost is not always the initial SALE price :confused:

[J.Greene]

Why buy new???


In this case it's what my mom wanted, so I bought the car for her.

To answer the guy who took offense to trying to get the best price, would you let your elderly mother go buy a car alone? I've seen how the dealerships treat the elderly.

JG

[Fixed]

Same thing happened to me when I got my Volvo XC90. I took it up with the owner of the dealership and ended up with a screaming deal. As I see it up, the salesperson did me a favor.
i saw one today it looked nice like it would hold a lot of bikes
cheers

[Bud_E]

Why buy new???

In recent years a grey market of quasi dealers has emerged. These folks are buying program cars from all the major manufacturers, since they can not dispense of their off lease vehicles through their own dealerships. The vehicles are mostly 3 years old or newer and have less than 40k miles. Generally prices are 20-30% below the going used car rates and many have original factory warranties in place for 6-18 months.

I agree that this is a very sensible point on the curve to buy a nice car. Do you find the best such deals by scanning ads online or is there a better way to locate such a source ?

[93legendti]

i saw one today it looked nice like it would hold a lot of bikes
cheers

Not when you're hauling 2 kids and their stuff on a trip--then it's bike rack time.

[Kervin]

To answer the guy who took offense to trying to get the best price, would you let your elderly mother go buy a car alone? I've seen how the dealerships treat the elderly.

I guess that means me, but I took no offense in you wanting to make sure your elderly mother got taken care of. I've owned a bike shop and now I sell cars in the same town. It's funny how the same guy that I stayed open late to fix his bike, would come in the next week wanted me to beat a Nashbar close-out price. I just saw him today complaining in our service department about getting a loaner car that wasn't as nice as the one he has in the shop. I read your post just after that and posted in a weak moment.

If I was looking to get a really low price on a new car, just call your local dealer, ask for the person that sells the most cars. Tell them you what a price low enough that another dealer won't be able to beat it. Tell them you'll give them a perfect score. That person will know the right things to say to the "price" person to get you the deal you want.

[Ozz]

...would you let your elderly mother go buy a car alone? I've seen how the dealerships treat the elderly.

JG

Here in Seattle, a car salesman was just sentenced to nine months for stealing / taking advantage of an elderly mentally ill man. Others employees of the dealership broke into his home and stole money and stuff too. Punks.

The story here. (http://www.kirotv.com/news/14981794/detail.html)

FWIW - the dealership went out of business for lack of business shortly after this story broke about a year ago.

[djg]

That was the start of my process, but pretty quick you got to pick up the phone and talk to someone.

JG

I didn't actually -- I wanted to nail down the details in writing and almost all the dealers seemed willing to do that -- with the exception of the useless calls back to the neighborhood dealer, I didn't speak to anybody by phone until we had a complete, out-the-door price agreed to for a specific vehicle. At that time, I let the guy call me to arrange a time to meet for us to get the mini van.

[djg]

I may be stupid about this but when my dealer offered me what I thought was fair, I took it. Since then I have had half a dozen little things and all were done immediately and for no cost. I think there's less margin on certain cars or with dealers less wiling to move. I bought rugs in India in my day, so I know from a good haggle and walk away. It just depends what you think the deal is. In bike shops I never ask for a deal, never haggle. Sometimes I buy on the web to save if it's a lot, sometimes not. Keepin' it local matters some to me. In my neck of the woods (and that's literal, given the woods here), you need some friends.

dbrk

If you're happy, you're happy, and good business relations can be pretty valuable, but it's very hard to say after the fact how much less you could have paid. IME, lots of dealers take care of a few little things after the sale, and many things nowadays are covered under warranty for some period. The signals after the sale may or may not say much about long-range service (which often is managed differently from sales).

With our last two purchases, we paid, respectively, more than 6K and more than 5k below sticker. In one case, a certain dealer incentive from the mfg was disclosed up front, but not all of them, and in another case a 3k incentive publicized on all the boards was not. With the mini-van, the nice local dealer with a good reputation was way off the price we got 20 miles away -- only the customer can say whether they were a couple hundred bucks nice or a couple thousand. Car dealers can be highly variable in how they treat you in response to all sorts of pressures, and timing issues, that have nothing to do with you, and unless you've done a bit of research it's hard to know their cost basis, or whether the local fudge factor is 50 bucks, a couple hundred, or thousands. There's no wrong or right -- it's just that some folks care to know more than others.

[Pete Serotta]

There are always two sides to every negotiation. You bring up a very good point.

I recall many years ago a guy who was a pain in the xss in the bike store,,,,,then I go up to the diner and he is giving them pain, It seems like the waitress asked him if he wanted tuna on his salad. He said yes BUT when it came time to pay, he fought for not paying for the tuna >>He did not order it (the waitress asked him if he would like some - so he should not be charged for he did not order.)

I guess that means me, but I took no offense in you wanting to make sure your elderly mother got taken care of. I've owned a bike shop and now I sell cars in the same town. It's funny how the same guy that I stayed open late to fix his bike, would come in the next week wanted me to beat a Nashbar close-out price. I just saw him today complaining in our service department about getting a loaner car that wasn't as nice as the one he has in the shop. I read your post just after that and posted in a weak moment.

If I was looking to get a really low price on a new car, just call your local dealer, ask for the person that sells the most cars. Tell them you what a price low enough that another dealer won't be able to beat it. Tell them you'll give them a perfect score. That person will know the right things to say to the "price" person to get you the deal you want.

[stevep]

my last 2 car purchases have been entirely done online, never talked to the dealership until i had a price on the car i wanted.
"how much for this?"..." ok, when can i pick it up?"
easy as pie.
dont care about a test ride or anything, dont need some guy to take me through the car, etc not wasting anyones time.

went in with a check and picked them up.

the whole dealer sit down,etc is a drag. dealer has been fine after the purchase.

[tch]

who was a car salesman for a short bit said that industry research/wisdom is that about 85% of car sales occur on the occasion that the customer walks in the door. Essentially, no one ever "comes back" when they say they will. So there is no incentive to act like a real human being; everything is predicated on making the sale that day.

[Ahneida Ride]

New Car Salesmen are a unique breed.

Although I have had a few help me out. Even when they knew full well
they were not going to make a sale.

Never prejudge.

[Elefantino]

When car salesmen treat me fairly and honestly, I reciprocate.

When, as has been the case in all but my dealings with the local BMW dealer, they try to jerk me around, I fall back on words my father told me:

"There are no purgatory points for how you treat car dealers."

Name a game they play, and I know it better. And if they try to play, I have them for lunch and dinner.

It shouldn't have to be this way. Dave Barry once wrote in a column that he felt the only way he could get a straight answer from a salesman as to the price of the car was to point a gun at the salesman's forehead and say, "tell me the price of this car or I will shoot you."

[dave thompson]

<snip>... Dave Barry once wrote in a column that he felt the only way he could get a straight answer from a salesman as to the price of the car was to point a gun at the salesman's forehead and say, "tell me the price of this car or I will shoot you."
Even then, he would have to "ask his manager".