Ron paul??

[William]

Ron Paul? I just can’t vote for a guy with two first names. Reminds me of my cousin Billy Bob. Now, he’ll vote for a guy with two first names. He seems to like this guy….

Billy Bob’s thoughts on Ron paul (or “Ebenezer” as he calls him):

Here's whut ah desuhe in a kindidate:
1) Someone who unnerstan's thet wawkin' varmints haf prio'ities like th' fine-bein' of their fambly, their health, an' their future
2) Someone who spends billions of dollars on health an' fineness, ejoocayshun, an' green opshuns thet nourish an' suppo't our invironment
3) Someone who treats varmints of colo', minoirities, an' varmints in povahty wif respeck.
4) Someone who includes varmints of colo' on their team in leadership posishuns.
5) Someone who will does whutevah he o' she axs of others.

Finally, ah truly desuhe a kindidate who upholds th' values our country is built on, wif particular care fo' th' Consteetooshun an' th' Billy Joe of Rights. ah reckon Congressman Ebenezer is doin' a fine job articulatin' whut he plans t'do wif his Presidency. Varmints, less o'ganize an' git in front of all th' can'idates wif our vishun fo' th' future.

Old Billy bob ain’t as dumb as you’d think.



William :rolleyes:

[Too Tall]

Big Man, you've out done yourself. Where is Li'l Abner now when what the world truly needs is a candidate who understands critters n' stuff ;)

[Ahneida Ride]

Dr. Paul will eliminate the incredible preserve system, the greatest form of slavery ever created by mankind.

end the most pernicious tax of inflation (frn dilution)

[paczki]

the greatest form of slavery ever created by mankind

And here I thought slavery was the greatest form of slavery created by man.

[PaulE]

watch out for people with no first names and people who have a first initial and a middle name, e.g. J. Edgar Hoover, L. Ron Hubbard.

[Too Tall]

watch out for people with no first names and people who have a first initial and a middle name, e.g. J. Edgar Hoover, L. Ron Hubbard.
Are we talking about cross dressers...again?

[I H8Rabbits]

watch out for people with no first names and people who have a first initial and a middle name, e.g. J. Edgar Hoover, L. Ron Hubbard.


What about people with symbols for names? You know, the formerly princely sort..... :confused:




"R"


http://www.informaction.org/images/kids/ifa_gifs/rabbit1.gif

[Acotts]

I am stoked about voting for Ron Paul. Back in my college years, I got crucified for voting for Nader. (give me a break, i was in college. I didn't understand reality yet.) All my buddies said that I was throwing my vote away and stealing votes from the Democrats.

This time, however, I can vote for the candidate I truly like, Ron Paul, and I will be throwing away a republican vote, adding one to the winning team. Everyone is happy.

I truly feel that Paul could put our nation onto a new course. One that makes sense, one that works, and one that is inherently just. That said, too many piggies in power would loose their tails in the process for it to ever happen. Kinda sad, really.

[davids]

Dr. Paul will eliminate the incredible preserve system, the greatest form of slavery ever created by mankind.OK, that's just offensive. You've got your issue, OK.

It's one thing to go off on the poor guy behind the counter at Dunkin' Donuts. But it's beyond the pale to compare fractional reserve banking to slavery (http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/).

[PaulE]

And also people with no first name or a last name as first name and a first name as a last name. And then there are three-named people. Jerry Seinfeld is currently being sued in part because on the Letterman show, referring to someone with three names, who wrote a cookbook similar to one his wife wrote, he said "if you read history, many of the three-named people do become assasins."

What about people with symbols for names? You know, the formerly princely sort..... :confused:




"R"


http://www.informaction.org/images/kids/ifa_gifs/rabbit1.gif

[Samster]

for prez.

[HSG Racer]

Having two first names is more normal than having two last names. Some parents in my neighborhood have really come up with some silly names as first names for their children. We have a Jackson, a Boone and an Emerson (girl) in our neighborhood.

As for Ron Paul - No thanks! He may be making some more sense than the other Republican candidates on some issues but I'll stick with the Democrats for now.

:argue:

[J.Greene]

for prez.


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=456835&postcount=136

JG

[rwsaunders]

The original Mr. Paul (Les).

[MarleyMon]

I just heard an NPR Day to Day interview w/ James Kirchik a New Republic writer who is publishing a story about newsletters published under Ron Paul's name that were full of racist, homophobic rants and wacko conspiracy theories. He claims to be unawares, but admits it was his name & newsletter.
link here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17990685)
audio available after 3.
Kirchik's article here (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca)

[jemoryl]

I just heard an NPR Day to Day interview w/ James Kirchik a New Republic writer who is publishing a story about newsletters published under Ron Paul's name that were full of racist, homophobic rants and wacko conspiracy theories. He claims to be unawares, but admits it was his name & newsletter.
link here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17990685)
audio available after 3.
Kirchik's article here (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca)

Not only the above, but the guy doesn't accept the theory of evolution.
This is another side of him that isn't given much attention:
http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm

[sspielman]

I just heard an NPR Day to Day interview w/ James Kirchik a New Republic writer who is publishing a story about newsletters published under Ron Paul's name that were full of racist, homophobic rants and wacko conspiracy theories. He claims to be unawares, but admits it was his name & newsletter.
link here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17990685)
audio available after 3.
Kirchik's article here (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca)

NPR teaming up with the New Republic?......How did the geniuses at the Paul campaign dream up such a ringing endorsement!

[jeffg]

:crap: OK, that's just offensive. You've got your issue, OK.

It's one thing to go off on the poor guy behind the counter at Dunkin' Donuts. But it's beyond the pale to compare fractional reserve banking to slavery (http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/).

+1

Want to go for the Holocaust analogy as icing on the cake? ;)

I thought this was a bike forum some time ago ... now it has morphed into something between the old forum and MySpace :crap:

[Grant McLean]

I'll admit I'm late to the Ron Paul party, as I only heard of him recently.

I'm not totally up on all the 'code' for what some of the words mean,
so take this with a pinch of salt... but the guy has some points. I mean, he didn't
come off as a total whack-job in the debate on Saturday. There are a few
pretty mainstream ideas in there... balanced budgets, states rights, etc...
I think it's important for guys like him to be part of the process. I'm not voting for the guy
(well, becasuse i'm Canadian...) but he represents his positions quite well. There's a
what you see is what you get quality to his message. Is the guy Presidental
material? No way. But he's part of the process. I think it's pretty surprising
how many of his current positons are ones the republican party have abandoned
in the last several elections, and I wonder if Paul serves as an uncomfortable
reminder of this fact to many Republicans?

-g

[sspielman]

I'll admit I'm late to the Ron Paul party, as I only heard of him recently.

I'm not totally up on all the 'code' for what some of the words mean,
so take this with a pinch of salt... but the guy has some points. I mean, he didn't
come off as a total whack-job in the debate on Saturday. There are a few
pretty mainstream ideas in there... balanced budgets, states rights, etc...
I think it's important for guys like him to be part of the process. I'm not voting for the guy
(well, becasuse i'm Canadian...) but he represents his positions quite well. There's a
what you see is what you get quality to his message. Is the guy Presidental
material? No way. But he's part of the process. I think it's pretty surprising
how many of his current positons are ones the republican party have abandoned
in the last several elections, and I wonder if Paul serves as an uncomfortable
reminder of this fact to many Republicans?

-g


Bingo! It really is the "Ron Paul Movement". The hope is that the movement will outsurvive the candidate and become an impetus for a meaningful return to conservative (now libertarian) principles....I have been expecting the attacks from the republican party for a long time...I guess that 8-10% is above the threshold number of votes for Paul that they are willing to tolerate...

[Acotts]

I have been checking out Mr Pauls site, and frankly his positons just dont make much sense.

http://voteseanpaul.ytmnd.com/

[Acotts]

Mr Pauls site did make a lot more sense than Huchabee's site. This one will give me nightmares!

http://klausnomi.ytmnd.com/

[MadRocketSci]

the good:

adherence to the constitution
fiscal responsitiblity - he's the only guy who calls out Bernanke and the FED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM

the bad:
everything else

[Acotts]

the good:

adherence to the constitution
fiscal responsitiblity - he's the only guy who calls out Bernanke and the FED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM

the bad:
everything else

Does bad equal state's rights, ending unjust wars, fixing social security, stopping cesorship and protecting our right to privacy?

P.S. this is Norman Nevile's que to come in and rip me a new one.

[MadRocketSci]

Does bad equal state's rights, ending unjust wars, fixing social security, stopping cesorship and protecting our right to privacy?

P.S. this is Norman Nevile's que to come in and rip me a new one.

the war, censorship, right to privacy (patriot act, etc) i believe fall under violations of the constitution.

social security falls under fiscal responsibility.

state's rights are beyond my educational level.

[72gmc]

Y'know, it's a strange state of the union when "adherence to the constitution" becomes a differentiating factor for a presidential candidate.

[Acotts]

the war, censorship, right to privacy (patriot act, etc) i believe fall under violations of the constitution.

social security falls under fiscal responsibility.

state's rights are beyond my educational level.


Wow, I totally missed that part of your post. It looks like my eyes went straight for the link. My bad. Sorry for the sass.

Still, there is not much more to his platform than that. I love his platform. Its not like he is peddling religion on the side or anything like that.

The "bad" for me is; too many dirty politicians have too many stakes in the current system for his plan to ever shake out.

-Andrew

[Acotts]

Y'know, it's a strange state of the union when "adherence to the constitution" becomes a differentiating factor for a presidential candidate.

+1

[davids]

Still, there is not much more to his platform than that. I love his platform. Its not like he is peddling religion on the side or anything like that.Well, he's certainly not Huckabee, but when asked directly about Evolution, he answered (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw) , "I think it's a theory...And I don't accept it, you know, as a theory."

Does he accept the theories of genetics? The theory of gravity? The theory of relativity? Gödel's theorem?

If he rejects all of these, he's a no-nothing, an idiot. He's rejected the methodologies and practice of science, despite overwhelming evidence in support of the scientific method. This guy is a physician, by the way.

If he only rejects the theory of evolution, I'd like to know why he singles this one out. He'd better have good, scientifically valid evidence to disprove the prevailing theory. In my experience, the only people trying this approach have a different agenda - They are engaged in a rear-guard action to preserve the notion that the Old Testament is literally true.

I'm far from a single-issue voter, but I couldn't support someone with such an agenda (or someone pandering to people with that agenda) to be this country's president.

[sspielman]

Well, he's certainly not Huckabee, but when asked directly about Evolution, he answered (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw) , "I think it's a theory...And I don't accept it, you know, as a theory."

Does he accept the theories of genetics? The theory of gravity? The theory of relativity? Gödel's theorem?

If he rejects all of these, he's a no-nothing, an idiot. He's rejected the methodologies and practice of science, despite overwhelming evidence in support of the scientific method. This guy is a physician, by the way.

If he only rejects the theory of evolution, I'd like to know why he singles this one out. He'd better have good, scientifically valid evidence to disprove the prevailing theory. In my experience, the only people trying this approach have a different agenda - They are engaged in a rear-guard action to preserve the notion that the Old Testament is literally true.

I'm far from a single-issue voter, but I couldn't support someone with such an agenda (or someone pandering to people with that agenda) to be this country's president.

Except.....that his belief in creationism is part of his faith, which at last check was a constitutionally protected freedom.

I think you have made it very clear that you are not going to vote for him in your previous posts....but you can't expect to discredit the man's entire platform based on a religious belief that you do not share. That is a "straw man" propaganda scenario at best and religious bigotry at worst.....

*For the record, I am not extremely religious myself......AND, I believe in evolution...(not that either should matter but apparently does)

[davids]

Except.....that his belief in creationism is part of his faith, which at last check was a constitutionally protected freedom.

I think you have made it very clear that you are not going to vote for him in your previous posts....but you can't expect to discredit the man's entire platform based on a religious belief that you do not share. That is a "straw man" propaganda scenario at best and religious bigotry at worst.....

*For the record, I am not extremely religious myself......AND, I believe in evolution...(not that either should matter but apparently does)I'm not discrediting his entire platform. This is the only statement of his that I've even referenced. And he is absolutely free to believe (and say) what he wants. Absolutely!

Like I said in my post, "I'm far from a single-issue voter, but I couldn't support someone with such an agenda".

I really don't think of this as "religious bigotry". I personally have extreme reservations about the intellectual rigor & honesty of someone who rejects the theory of evolution, especially a person like a physician who's had a good, liberal education.

I'd hope that the person we choose to be our president would be able to consider facts and situations without bias and prejudgement. Someone who rejects evolution doesn't strike me as the kind of person who's open to re-evaluating their biases and presuppositions.

Just a public service announcement. You're free to believe and do what you want, too! ;)

[MadRocketSci]

Wow, I totally missed that part of your post. It looks like my eyes went straight for the link. My bad. Sorry for the sass.

Still, there is not much more to his platform than that. I love his platform. Its not like he is peddling religion on the side or anything like that.

-Andrew

No worries! :beer:

I do like those aspects of his platform, especially his efforts to expose the FED's role (blowing bubble after bubble) in the state of the economy. Unfortunately, I have my litmus tests and he doesn't pass them:

1) the environment - probably the issue I care most about
2) evolution - if he doesn't accept this as a valid scientific theory, then he just doesn't understand science, and how can you let someone like that be in charge of funding for science? or make any policy decision involving science?
3) the stuff I don't agree with Libertarians about

[davids]

I read something very interesting about Mr. Paul last night, and wanted to share:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca

And this, for more detail:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/124426.html

[roman meal]

I read something very interesting about Mr. Paul last night, and wanted to share:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca

And this, for more detail:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/124426.html


Paul/ Koo-Koo-Kucinch 2008

Get out
the recount

[Viper]

Well, he's (Ron Paul) certainly not Huckabee, but when asked directly about Evolution, he answered , "I think it's a theory...And I don't accept it, you know, as a theory."

Does he accept the theories of genetics? The theory of gravity? The theory of relativity? Gödel's theorem?

If he rejects all of these, he's a no-nothing, an idiot. He's rejected the methodologies and practice of science, despite overwhelming evidence in support of the scientific method. This guy is a physician, by the way.

If he only rejects the theory of evolution, I'd like to know why he singles this one out. He'd better have good, scientifically valid evidence to disprove the prevailing theory. In my experience, the only people trying this approach have a different agenda - They are engaged in a rear-guard action to preserve the notion that the Old Testament is literally true.

I'm far from a single-issue voter, but I couldn't support someone with such an agenda (or someone pandering to people with that agenda) to be this country's president.
They are engaged in a rear-guard action to preserve the notion that the Old Testament is literally true.

Are you certain it's (the Old Testament) not true? Why hate Christianity so very much? If you were a Christian, you might consider/view the Old Testament differently than you currently do. Are you able to respect and see other's pov? Is Ron Paul not allowed to have faith?

Here's a guy who's just so sure of himself atmo. And another guy who didn't display 3-D thought (according to Spock).

[J.Greene]

Are you able to respect and see other's pov? Is Ron Paul not allowed to have faith?


For me it's yes and yes he is.

But...some things are a deal killer.

JG

[stevep]

im in the camp that anyone who refuses to accept the theory of evolution is unsuitable to be president....because he ( or she ) is a moron.
sorry if i offend anyone.

ok to run. pee wee herman can run ( hey, he took office in 2001 ) but it is impossible to put someone with a basic disrespect of the most basic scientific principles into high office. next thing you know we'll have women in burkas.

and we wonder why the country is falling further and further behind the science of other nations.

you expect the cure for cancer to be found in a country where the funding is determined by some jaackass who doesnt believe in evolution?

[Grant McLean]

you expect the cure for cancer to be found in a country where the funding is determined by some jaackass who doesnt believe in evolution?

No. God will choose which country gets to find the cure.

-g

[stevep]

No. God will choose which country gets to find the cure.

-g

grant, this thread is only for american citizens. you cannot appreciate our painful process of election sufficiently. go back to counting loonies and leave us to our pain.

you should hold a mock primary in toronto and see if romney shows up
" cause he has a house there.."

[Viper]

im in the camp that anyone who refuses to accept the theory of evolution is unsuitable to be president....because he ( or she ) is a moron.
sorry if i offend anyone.

ok to run. pee wee herman can run ( hey, he took office in 2001 ) but it is impossible to put someone with a basic disrespect of the most basic scientific principles into high office. next thing you know we'll have women in burkas.

and we wonder why the country is falling further and further behind the science of other nations.

you expect the cure for cancer to be found in a country where the funding is determined by some jaackass who doesnt believe in evolution?

Find me an atheist, agnostic or scientific-model-lover and I'll show you someone who can't ever win a US Presidency. Hate it, but what, 90% of Americans believe in a higher power; President Bush went to China several years ago, back in 2002 and told them the same thing.

Our kids suck in science, math and we should blame our teachers, our educational system, parents for not pushing their kids and X-Box for producing games etc. Blame where it's due, our President's faith isn't the reason our kids' math and science grades stink.

Faith is one of the key issues every politician faces. I'm prepared for the questions on this topic, I'll quote Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy etc...especially Clinton and Carter. :D

Your boy Clinton carried a Bible when he needed to for the media, what say you? Huh???

(also here he is with God who wears shades by Gucci)

[Grant McLean]

Your boy Clinton carried a Bible when he needed to for the media, what say you? Huh???


I'm pretty sure Clinton believes in evolution... even Bush does, doesn't he?

-g

[stevep]

viper, you are arguing something that i did not say.
read it again.
faith is not the issue. religion is not the issue.
it is the denial of basic science in the name of RELIGION that offends me.
every candidate pays homage to some faith or other... believe what you want.

notable. clinton is not my boy. he is actually older that i am. he had a fine 2 terms though he had his own issues undeniably. i, and quite possibly, many more wish he were still in office, because we would not be involved in a tragically unsolvable war in the middle east. he was too smart for that.





Find me an atheist, agnostic or scientific-model-lover and I'll show you someone who can't ever win a US Presidency. Hate it, but what, 90% of Americans believe in a higher power; President Bush went to China several years ago, back in 2002 and told them the same thing.

Our kids suck in science, math and we should blame our teachers, our educational system, parents for not pushing their kids and X-Box for producing games etc. Blame where it's due, our President's faith isn't the reason our kids' math and science grades stink.

Faith is one of the key issues every politician faces. I'm prepared for the questions on this topic, I'll quote Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy etc...especially Clinton and Carter. :D

Your boy Clinton carried a Bible when he needed to for the media, what say you? Huh???

(also here he is with God who wears shades by Gucci)

[Viper]

I'm pretty sure Clinton believes in evolution... even Bush does, doesn't he?

-g

Bill Clinton believes in the power of:

[roman meal]

Are you certain it's (the Old Testament) not true? Why hate Christianity so very much? If you were a Christian, you might consider/view the Old Testament differently than you currently do. Are you able to respect and see other's pov? Is Ron Paul not allowed to have faith?

Here's a guy who's just so sure of himself atmo. And another guy who didn't display 3-D thought (according to Spock).


"woof"= this man's a mean troll.

[Bud_E]

A politician can believe anything he wants or that his religion tells him. What's disturbingly scary is forcing public schools to present it to students thinly disguised as a "competing theory" to hard science.

[stevep]

I'm pretty sure Clinton believes in evolution... even Bush does, doesn't he?

-g

bush feels that it's a theory... therefore theoretical by definition.
( same word root, get it? )
true dat.

[davids]

I believe in the efficacy of the scientific method, and trust that the theories it supports are reasonable approximations of the truth. I believe that reason and the scientific method reveal a lot about the universe to us.

I do not believe that science is the "truth", only that its practice will help us rigorously study and understand our universe, and get us ever closer to that truth. I believe that when the scientific method shows that a previously-held theory is fallacious, that theory should be replaced with one that better explains the evidence.

I believe that there are whole realms of experience that science cannot address, and that religious faith, morality and ethics continue to offer people crucial comforts and understanding in those areas. (Accusing me of hating Christianity, because I don't believe Genesis 1-3 is literally true, is laughable and moronic. That would make the Catholic Church anti-Christian, too.)

I believe in God as the creator and moral perfection.

I believe that the only part of this post that Viper will understand is the following:

I believe that people who don't believe in biological evolution are either uneducated or stupid.

[Viper]

I believe that there are whole realms of experience that science cannot address, and that religious faith, morality and ethics continue to offer people crucial comforts and understanding in those areas. (Accusing me of hating Christianity, because I don't believe Genesis 1-3 is literally true, is laughable and moronic. That would make the Catholic Church anti-Christian, too.)

I believe in God as the creator and moral perfection.

I believe that the only part of this post that Viper will understand is the following:

I believe that people who don't believe in biological evolution are either uneducated or stupid.

Viper understands more than you suspect, or care to admit. Viper is offering you that stating, "I believe that people who don't believe in biological evolution are either uneducated or stupid" is simply too large a paintbrush; you're offending millions and millions around the world. It is Campy vs. Shimano, the Creation vs. Evolution, Faith vs. Science...but I don't buy that people who ride Shimano, believe in evolution and lack faith are any more or less intelligent than those who ride Campy, believe in creation and have a deep faith.

I offer my two cents in posts 26, 31, 34 and 48 of the 'UFO' thread...




.

[Grant McLean]

you're offending millions and millions


That's ok, they likely can't even find Canada on a map, and it doesn't
really offend me, it just makes me sad.

-g

[jeffg]

That's ok, they likely can't even find Canada on a map, and it doesn't
really offend me, it just makes me sad.

-g

Careful Grant. That's what we have GPS and smart bombs for :)

Honestly, it's these putative millions and millions that offend me.

Bravo to the Italian university for blocking the Pope coming to speak at the convocation on the basis he earlier justified the trial of Galileo. Shrub, Paul and Huck would be taking turns showing Galileo the implements to be used if he did not recant.

Folks are free to believe the sun revolves around the Earth, but let's not elect them leader of the free world. Why don't they just render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's ... or would Jesus run for Senate these days?

[Viper]

Careful Grant. That's what we have GPS and smart bombs for :)

Honestly, it's these putative millions and millions that offend me.

Bravo to the Italian university for blocking the Pope coming to speak at the convocation on the basis he earlier justified the trial of Galileo. Shrub, Paul and Huck would be taking turns showing Galileo the implements to be used if he did not recant.

Folks are free to believe the sun revolves around the Earth, but let's not elect them leader of the free world. Why don't they just render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's ... or would Jesus run for Senate these days?

I spoke of Mr. Galileo Galilei just last week, you can do a search. I pointed out that he was a devout Roman Catholic. Kinda throws an air pump in the spokes eh?

Brilliant that a university in Italy denied the Pope the freedom of speech, brilliant. :rolleyes: Fear not, on January 20th 2009 the next President will place their hand on the good book and swear the oath (and why is it this doesn't bother the Left when it's a Democratic President?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inauguration_Day



.

[Louis]

DavidS - amen to that.

Where there is data one can interpret and explain. Sometimes not perfectly, but often very well.

People have always been superstitious. When there is superstition you can believe whatever you want, data be dammed.

[Viper]

What really cracks me up is the Left loves to denounce and attack Christianity (see above) yet they embrace Scientology and Kabbalah.

Pope = bad

This equals cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQXLuWz6OqU

[bcm119]

What really cracks me up is the Left loves to denounce and attack Christianity (see above) yet they embrace Scientology and Kabbalah.

They do?

My religious ignorance is showing here, but my far-left instincts are

Scientology = something to do with tom cruise(?)

Kabbalah = a type of Jewish pet food?

[jeffg]

I spoke of Mr. Galileo Galilei just last week, you can do a search. I pointed out that he was a devout Roman Catholic. Kinda throws an air pump in the spokes eh?

Brilliant that a university in Italy denied the Pope the freedom of speech, brilliant. :rolleyes: Fear not, on January 20th 2009 the next President will place their hand on the good book and swear the oath (and why is it this doesn't bother the Left when it's a Democratic President?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inauguration_Day



.

Not in the least.

The fact remains that Galileo backed down from what the world now holds to be incontrovertible in the face of threatened torture by the very church he was a member of. The church was out for power at the expense of the truth, plain and simple.

And what freedom of speech do you think you are talking about? The pope can believe whatever he wants and there are many places he can voice his views. I cannot believe the president is denying me the freedom to speak in the rose garden tomorrow ...

Read some Kant ... Understand the freedom to hold views and the limits on expression in a free society

You are just proving the point that David made earlier ...

[stevep]

What really cracks me up is the Left loves to denounce and attack Christianity (see above) yet they embrace Scientology and Kabbalah.

Pope = bad

This equals cool:
l]

hey,
where did good viper go?
bad viper is back.
bad viper doesnt read carefully.
bad viper make stuff up out of thin air.

viper,
say i told you ( im gonna be careful here ) that i believed in the easter bunny still- i dont, but theoretically-
you would say.. ok, thats cool... maybe he'll come to you and bring you a chocolate bunny... and you would walk away thinking i was an idiot... understandable.

now fast forward ... here is me running for president and easter bunny is real is part of my platform.... ok.... now fast forwrd again and i want easter bunny is real taught in science class... cause i got a lot of votes from the easter bunny constituency.
good idea? bad idea? you decide.
or would the basic premise of me believing in the bunny even disqualify me from holding office... because clearly its a ridiculous belief.
stuff like the earth is 6,000 yrs old and there is no evolution are the equivalent to believing in the easter bunny. they disqualify a candidate at the gate.

[Viper]

hey,
where did good viper go?
bad viper is back.
bad viper doesnt read carefully.
bad viper make stuff up out of thin air.

viper,
say i told you ( im gonna be careful here ) that i believed in the easter bunny still- i dont, but theoretically-
you would say.. ok, thats cool... maybe he'll come to you and bring you a chocolate bunny... and you would walk away thinking i was an idiot... understandable.

now fast forward ... here is me running for president and easter bunny is real is part of my platform.... ok.... now fast forwrd again and i want easter bunny is real taught in science class... cause i got a lot of votes from the easter bunny constituency.
good idea? bad idea? you decide.
or would the basic premise of me believing in the bunny even disqualify me from holding office... because clearly its a ridiculous belief.
stuff like the earth is 6,000 yrs old and there is no evolution are the equivalent to believing in the easter bunny. they disqualify a candidate at the gate.

bad stevep.
viper like RIF.

Bro, are you taking it that I singled you out as the yellow jersey of Christianity-attacker? What I say is that a huge movement (it exists in this thread and others) in America (look at what the Italian University did to the Pope) exists and it's anti-Christian-ity.

How do you feel knowing that what, 90%+ of American Presidents believe in creation, your so-called 'Easter bunny', these men made it through the gate...of the White House...all the way to the Oval Office atmo. What say you?

[93legendti]

hey,
where did good viper go?
bad viper is back.
bad viper doesnt read carefully.
bad viper make stuff up out of thin air...

Yeah, I hate when people make stuff up:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=445472&postcount=31

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
"quiz
who was the celtics back up center around 1980?
never played but in practice?
not fernstrom... i forget

in the day he lived in lynnfield and came into my (then) shop to buy a bike for his kid...
me.." how old is yr kid?"
him... "he's 12"
me " he probably wants a bike like his buddies...like a bmx bike"
him..."he's 6'4""

me..."oh, oh" "

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Doofus
"greg kite? "

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
"doofus wins a sachs frame...
contact e-richie to collect. "


So in ~1980, Greg Kite walks in your store to buy a bike for his 12 year old kid, huh? Let's see, Greg was born in 1961. He played with the Celts from '83-'87, when he was 22-26. So at the time his (then 12 year old) son was born, Greg must have been between 10-14 years old.

That is one, AMAZING story:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...k/kitegr01.html
Greg Kite
Gregory Fuller Kite (Greg)

Position: C
Height: 6'11" Weight: 250 lbs.
Born: August 5, 1961 in Houston, TX
High School: James Madison in Houston, TX
College: Brigham Young University

Fernsten was born in '53. Your story plays better if the kid was his.
http://www.databasebasketball.com/p...ilkid=FERNSER01

[davids]

...you that stating, "I believe that people who don't believe in biological evolution are either uneducated or stupid" is simply too large a paintbrush; you're offending millions and millions around the world.Nothing wrong with being uneducated. There's lots of things each of us knows little to nothing about. I'm not offended if someone says I'm uneducated about microbiology, for example.

"Stupid", well.... Yep. If someone's been educated about the theory of evolution and all the other science that backs it up, and chooses to believe instead in the literal authority of a 3,500 year old book, they're not very intelligent.

Go ahead and be offended. I mean it.

[J.Greene]

How do you feel knowing that what, 90%+ of American Presidents believe in creation, your so-called 'Easter bunny', these men made it through the gate...of the White House...all the way to the Oval Office atmo. What say you?

Viper,

your tarring all presidents with the same brush. There is a huge difference between fundamental, evangelical, born again southern baptists and other christian faiths. As a methodist I can tell you we are much more open in thought than our neighbors the southern baptists.

JG

[Fixed]

bro you cats upset with mike h. rewriting the constitution to be in line with the bible ..hmm the founding fathers were they men of faith ? less than today? just wondering
cheers

[Viper]

Nothing wrong with being uneducated.
There's lots of things each of us knows little to nothing about.
"Stupid"

Go ahead and be offended. I mean it.


You get an Award for the Day, print and place on your fridge at home:


http://www.abcteach.com/free/a/award_brilliant_line.jpg

(someone isn't smart enough to read threads and see who believes in creation and who believes in evolution...furthermore...someone isn't brilliant enough to see that the same someone is merely defending the rights of man to believe AS HE CHOOSES aka free will...the belief in creation may seem to annoy the living heck outta you, but it's never, ever going away...no matter how hard Alan Dershowitz wants it to go away).

Just as you are free to believe in evolution, mankind is free to believe in creation.

[Viper]

bro you cats upset with huckelberry hound rewriting the constitution to be in line with the bible ..hmm the founding fathers were they men of faith ? less than today? just wondering
cheers

They spoke and wrote openly of our/the "Creator" atmo.

[fiamme red]

I don't care whether people believe in the theory of evolution or not. By itself, it's not a practical question that determines a course of political action. Likewise, I don't care if they believe that the Earth is flat, or that it's the center of the solar system. What does worry me is people who deny global warming. That is something that urgently needs to be acted on politically (if it's not already too late).

From today's NYT: Climate Talk’s Cancellation Splits a Town (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/us/17climate.html?_r=1&ex=1358312400&en=afc26eeed9f9b1aa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin)

[J.Greene]

hmm the founding fathers were they men of faith ? less than today? just wondering
cheers

If your asking if the wingtip tap was around in colonial times I'd say no. It's a behavior that has been observed most recently in very right wing republicans. Another odd beahavior that seems to be more modern is the glory hole. It was a more liberal act that has been co opted by state and county legistators. The act is mostly performed in county parks after sundown, or so I read in the local paper.

JG

[Grant McLean]

What I say is that a huge movement (it exists in this thread and others) in America (look at what the Italian University did to the Pope) exists and it's anti-Christian-ity.


Yes, it's a war on Christmas.

btw, how does what an Italian university do to the Pope, proof of a movement in America?

Didn't you say earlier in this thread that almost everyone believes in God?
How can there be a huge anti-chrisitan movement by definition if most
Americans are believers?

g

[roman meal]

Viper:

I admire your debating prowess. I found the award photo. What row are you in?

[Viper]

Viper:

I admire your debating prowess. I found the award photo. What row are you in?

I can share that I'm not the future endomorph in the back, middle.

[davids]

...There is a huge difference between fundamental, evangelical, born again southern baptists and other christian faiths.I've met Jews who believe the Old Testament is literally true.

Thinking my belief in the efficacy of the theory of evolution means I "hate Christianity" could also be a sign of stupidity. It's also very, very offensive.

[bcm119]

What I say is that a huge movement (it exists in this thread and others) in America (look at what the Italian University did to the Pope) exists and it's anti-Christian-ity.

What you may perceive as an anti-christianity movement is simply the backlash to the religious right's anti-separation of church and state movement. Its a necessary checks/balances in this country to support that important constitutional amendment. So far its prevented anything extreme from happening- you can still practice whatever religion you like, and my kids aren't subjected to any of your beliefs in science class.

[jeffg]

They spoke and wrote openly of our/the "Creator" atmo.

What about Franklin, Jefferson, Paine? Deism is not fundamentalism. Jefferson believed in the absolute wall between church and state and took scissors to the good book to illustrate what he thought was useful ...

Rousseau spoke of a creator as well but was more or less an atheist by today's standards.

Look, america always is in tension between Paine and the Puritans,
secularism and Great Awakenings.

That's why the wall is important and those individuals whose beliefs disqualify them from respecting that wall disqualify themselves in my opinion from the top office. Its the Enlightenment public/private distinction -- Cf. JFK

[sspielman]

I don't care whether people believe in the theory of evolution or not. By itself, it's not a practical question that determines a course of political action. Likewise, I don't care if they believe that the Earth is flat, or that it's the center of the solar system. What does worry me is people who deny global warming. That is something that urgently needs to be acted on politically (if it's not already too late).

From today's NYT: Climate Talk’s Cancellation Splits a Town (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/us/17climate.html?_r=1&ex=1358312400&en=afc26eeed9f9b1aa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin)


I'm sure that a carbon tax will fix that situation.....that is, as soon as certain people's pockets are sufficiently lined, the "problem" will go away....

[stevep]

I'm sure that a carbon tax will fix that situation.....that is, as soon as certain people's pockets are sufficiently lined, the "problem" will go away....


that quote is from galileo, right?
shiits,
wrong thread..

funny thing. i graduated from boston college. which was/ is a jesuit university ( dont ask for a definition of that...takes a lifetime to figure out...but its not a religious school ).
when i was there in the basement of babst library there was ( maybe still is ) a section called the cage.
in the cage are books banned by the church. but able to be used by approved researchers only. students could not get into the cage.
galileo was still on the banned list and his material in the cage.

no particular relevance but stills strikes me as funny...sometime i gotta go and see if its still there.

[sspielman]

that quote is from galileo, right?
shiits,
wrong thread..

funny thing. i graduated from boston college. which was/ is a jesuit university ( dont ask for a definition of that...takes a lifetime to figure out...but its not a religious school ).
when i was there in the basement of babst library there was ( maybe still is ) a section called the cage.
in the cage are books banned by the church. but able to be used by approved researchers only. students could not get into the cage.
galileo was still on the banned list and his material in the cage.

no particular relevance but stills strikes me as funny...sometime i gotta go and see if its still there.

Is banning a book still the shortest route to the bestseller's list?

[stevep]

Is banning a book still the shortest route to the bestseller's list?


it is as they say...
" a godsend"

ask the guy who wrote the devinci code

[roman meal]

it is as they say...
" a godsend"

ask the guy who wrote the devinci code


Didn't he teach at Exeter?

[Louis]

ask the guy who wrote the devinci code

You call that "writing"? I read that book well before it became a bestseller and could barely force myself to get to the end. I'll never bother to read anything else by Dan Brown again.

[stevep]

You call that "writing"? I read that book well before it became a bestseller and could barely force myself to get to the end. I'll never bother to read anything else by Dan Brown again.

you hated that?
pretty easy read i thought.
banned by the church, though, pushed sales through the roof.

de gustibus non disputandum

[J.Greene]

you hated that?
pretty easy read i thought.
banned by the church, though, pushed sales through the roof.

de gustibus non disputandum

I waited for the movie. The chick was pretty hot.

JG

[stevep]

You call that "writing"? I read that book well before it became a bestseller and could barely force myself to get to the end. I'll never bother to read anything else by Dan Brown again.

louis,
serious question. did the anti church bias effect you or did you just not like it?
s

[davids]

louis,
serious question. did the anti church bias effect you or did you just not like it?
sMy wife read "Angels & Demons" and thought it was howlingly bad - cliched writing, plot, and characters. Aside from that, though...

[Grant McLean]

Is banning a book still the shortest route to the bestseller's list?

maybe Stevep should ban shimano from this list.
oh wait, the majority Righteously ride campy...

:banana:

g

[stevep]

maybe Stevep should ban shimano from this list.
oh wait, the majority Righteously ride campy...

:banana:

g

the pope is infallable.
he rides shimano.

[mschol17]

My wife read "Angels & Demons" and thought it was howlingly bad - cliched writing, plot, and characters. Aside from that, though...

And impossible physics to boot!

[Louis]

did the anti church bias effect you

Not in the least. I disliked it because Brown can't write worth a *****.

[Viper]

Not in the least. I disliked it because Brown can't write worth a *****.

Dan Brown and very on topic here...I enjoyed 'Deception Point'. It was good, read it last summer.

I am considering 'Shutter Island' by Dennis Lehane or 'Digital Fortress' by Brown for my next read.

[Viper]

It's funny that in a Ron Paul thread we've wound up on evolution/creation; Ron Paul's main thrust is always three things: The Constitution, The Constitution and The Constitution.

That said, I can no longer contain the truth of Mr. Galileo Galilei. The man was totally wrong about Keppler's theory of moon/tides (which I enjoy while surfing) as well as denying the elliptical orbits of objects (he felt the circle was the most efficient orbit, something I remind myself when I pedal). However, little is known about what he actually saw at 32X magnification and I believe that Galileo saw V'ger first. Yes, Galileo saw V'ger, which was later written about by Mr. Gene Roddenbury and turned into a Motion Picture.

Perhaps, the maker, the creater is V'ger atmo (proud to say I saw this in the movie theater at age ninemo).

Galileo = Producer/Director of Star Trek the Motion Picture.

[roman meal]

the pope is infallable.
he rides shimano.


Ernesto gave JPII campagnolo. Benedict rides SRAM.

[stevep]

Ernesto gave JPII campagnolo. Benedict rides SRAM.


interestingly ..those 2 are fallable. obviously.

papal rules committee section 5 pages 23-24.
"the pope will be fallable when in consideration of cycling parts and accessories... unless said pope puts the comp group from shimano on his colnago frame thereby making his shifting practically effortless...*"

there is more to this but i have to go eat. look it up...its in the papal regulation book... in the cage at the bc library.

* old testament, either genesis or book of numbers.

[PedroC]

Ron Paul?

[roman meal]

.

[Viper]

FTR:

One of my best friend's brothers married a Southern girl. They moved from the NY area, wound up in Austin TX. They are now hardcore Baptists, hardcore. They were Roman Catholics for their entire lives, before they moved.

Now? Now every other word from them is "Jesus this" and "Jesus that"; they believe the Earth was created just as the Bible states, the Bible is 100% factual, dinosaurs are no big deal, carbon-dating is irrelevant and and and.

I get sick at Thanksgiving, listening to them. I grab my beer and move to another room with my food. Yeah I think they both LOST their religion (a Catholic Priest would tell them such) rather than finding whatever it is they found...and yes they can be super annoying, but they have the right to do it. I don't admire them, don't look up to them, but they're not dumb nor ignorant (he's a pilot in the US Navy for about 20 years).

Never argue with a fool, they'll lower you to their level and defeat you with experience...I remind myself of this quote when I see my old friends at Thanksgiving. They have the right to think Jesus wears Birkenstocks and chills out in Berkeley CA, parts of TX and of course, the Middle East just as I have the right to tune them out.

To me, faith is something that should remain between your ears, in your heart and between your loved ones.

[Louis]

To me, faith is something that should remain between your ears, in your heart and between your loved ones.

Sounds fine to me. Just remember, though that "it is written" (say it with a deep, powerful voice) that you're supposed to go out and recruit as many folks to join the party as possible, and if they don't want to join your party they are bad.

[Viper]

Sounds fine to me. Just remember, though that "it is written" (say it with a deep, powerful voice) that you're supposed to go out and recruit as many folks to join the party as possible, and if they don't want to join your party they are bad.

Agreed, Matthew 28:19 is a little much for me. I prefer Matthew 4:19, it's less-filling and very Quint-esque. Didn't Quint tell Hooper about 4:19 when they were in dock at Amity?

[bcm119]

To me, faith is something that should remain between your ears, in your heart and between your loved ones.
Amen to that, brother viper. You've got a place to stay and a free beer in Berkeley, CA, the next time you need to stock up on incense and birkenstocks.

[Louis]

Some Jehovah's Witnesses stopped by my house last weekend. A woman and her two children. Just doing their job, I guess. I smiled, was polite, and took the pamphlets they were handing out. One of my cats came over to say hello and they left. I usually look over their stuff just for kicks, but when I saw that one of them was about prevention of violence toward women I lost interest. (Not because I don't think that it's an important issue, but it's just not the type of thing that's in the Top 10 of my theological issues of the day.)

[ti_boi]

FTR:



To me, faith is something that should remain between your ears, in your heart and between your loved ones.

Disagree.....you live your faith if you are a believer. The issue is that most of us who are not Christian really know two things....one....we are not trusted or embraced by Christians....and thus we have created our own society....and homeland....and two....we don't want our government venturing into the realm of mysticism and religion. It is bad business. And we understand business.

[Louis]

FYI, guys, we're pushing the forum envelope pretty far, and I would not be surprised if someone puts a stop to it. I count myself as one of the offenders, and have been enjoying it while it's lasted, but it will soon be over.

[stevep]

Never argue with a fool



words to live by.

viper hits the nail on the head.

the line that could be added...
" you'll end up talking to yourself.."

[JohnS]

The issue is that most of us who are not Christian really know two things....one....we are not trusted or embraced by Christians....and thus we have created our own society....and homeland.
That sounds a little paranoid to me.

[ti_boi]

That sounds a little paranoid to me.


http://www.amazon.com/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/0385482582

[DRZRM]

Thanks for doing this Steve, so the rest of us don't have to.

Hmmm...fire...gasoline? Why not.

Link has some PG language, all written by our friends the faithful. If easily offended, you may want not to click.

"One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1

FTR:

Never argue with a fool, they'll lower you to their level and defeat you with experience...

[rwsaunders]

Ron asked that we post a pic of him in cycling in DC.

[cadence231]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/cadence220/RP_black.jpg

[97CSI]

Disagree.....you live your faith if you are a believer. The issue is that most of us who are not Christian really know two things....one....we are not trusted or embraced by Christians....and thus we have created our own society....and homeland....and two....we don't want our government venturing into the realm of mysticism and religion. It is bad business. And we understand business.All religions are bad. They are exclusionary by design. Totally 'you are either with me or against me'. No middle ground. Amply proved by your "own society". Some are just worse than others.