Track tires

[Jack Brunk]

What's the feeling on the elite brands of track tires. Do track tires work any different that road tires? Sew ups only.

Thanks

[dbrk]

Dugast. Ask the jerk for the old ones.

Otherwise Soyo Keirin #30A, 130gm, 18mm if you are looking for a pursuit style tire, Soyo Keirin #35A, 140gm, 18.5mm Cotton, 18.5mm, or for a bit more tire the Soyo Keirin #40A, 170gm, 21mm Cotton, 21mm. These are the real deal.

dbrk(eirin rocks)

[learlove]

ooo good topic, something I was going to ask.

not to ruin the original guys question and instead of starting another thread - what about clinchers? Specifically for sprinting type track events.

what about for tires that would go good for a specific track like say t-town? ominum type events?

Thanks

[11.4]

Plenty of choices out there but it depends on how specialized you want to get. If you're looking for pinks (ultra-thin latex band painted on the casing for the greatest possible suppleness) you only have a couple choices (Dugast and FMB). If you're looking for silks you again have only a couple choices. But pinks last for only a couple rides in world championship level events and silks aren't that important under track conditions -- only at a handful of tracks in the world do they give you any edge. For track training, you really don't want to be on ultra-fine track tires because you'll simply puncture more and endanger other riders. One of the nicest training tires is the Conti Steher (at $50 MSRP but with the ride of an old-school Dugast and it sticks like crazy on steep bankings). Some people like to train or race on Veloflex Records, but they are somewhat fragile. If you just want to spend some money on premium tires, you can buy some Conti Sonderclasses -- they are fairly durable and very comfortable, just quite expensive. (Remember that on the road you just have to change a tire if you flat; on the track, you may be on the banking and take a slide, bringing down a whole paceline below you. You have to be responsible to others.) As for high end tires, here are your choices:

Dugasts aren't what they were. I've stopped buying them simply because there are better tires out there.

FMBs are a bit better but frankly there are better tires out there. Good for the specialty event tires, but that's all I'd go for.

The Soyos are made for high adhesion on Japanese keirin tracks (they have to race in all weather conditions including rain) but for racing in the US there are again better tires. I had rather a spate of unexplained flats on a couple different batches of them. If you are trying for a 100% NJS bike then you are stuck with them but again, better tires out there. They aren't all that light compared to some of the competition; don't believe the published weights.

Challenge makes some good track tires, comparable to their cross tires in quality. Supple, fairly puncture resistant, nice treads with a lot of adhesion.

Conti track tires are rather so-so in my experience. The one standout is the Conti Olympic. It's only a 19 mm tire, but it's beautifully made. It is extremely tight to mount on a rim, if that bothers you. Olympics stick incredibly well and on steep wood tracks are wonderful tires. If you're riding in very fast massed start events with narrow, deep-section carbon rims, you'll have some aero advantage with them. They do tend to cut a bit but are actually fairly resistant to puncturing. They are extremely supple but don't have much tread thickness so they don't last all that long. At many European six-day races, these are the most popular tires.

The nicest track tires for ADT and most US tracks are the Vittoria Evo Pistas. You can get them in different diameters. These are the most popular tires on the World Cup circuit. They are predictable, reasonably puncture resistant, very supple, and very light. You can race them safely on most tracks and even train on them at ADT (not great mileage, but reliable).

[11.4]

ooo good topic, something I was going to ask.

not to ruin the original guys question and instead of starting another thread - what about clinchers? Specifically for sprinting type track events.

what about for tires that would go good for a specific track like say t-town? ominum type events?

Thanks

For track clinchers the most popular choice is usually the Conti Supersonic. It sticks well, lasts well, is extremely light, and is just a nice tire. Some people like to ride Veloflex Record clinchers, but be sure the label is on the left side of the tire because Veloflex labels can slip when they contact the banking. If you want a somewhat more durable tire for tracks that aren't quite smooth, check out Vittoria Rubino Pros -- these are perhaps the most common tires on rental track bikes, and they stick well. If you find them, the Vredestein Piste is a nice tire, but nothing better than the Supersonic. I'd definitely recommend getting a pair of Supersonics if you haven't tried them. If you have very tight clearance issues (not uncommon on track frames), the Supersonic comes in both a 20 and 23 mm diameter.

I'd add that people who don't race track seem to think all tracks are glass smooth. Far from it. Some US tracks are really a mess, and even the good ones have bumps, ridges, chips, ripples, rough surfaces, slippery surfaces, you name it. A wood track like ADT is suprisingly hard on tires. None of these are like riding time trial wheels on a newly-repaved high-quality asphalt. The g-forces also put a lot of extra strain on the tires. So when you consider the ramifications of puncturing and sliding down into an oncoming paceline, it really pays to be conservative on the track. It just isn't a place to be as equipment-crazy as on the road. You'll notice in the six-days that the bikes are pretty conservative, many frames are still aluminum, and weight is not at a huge premium. Mavic Cometes and Ios are heavy wheels but are so universally accepted because they are durable and strong. People pick tires the same way.

[Fixed]

bro cool post as always
cheers

[flux]

These are the most popular tires on the World Cup circuit.

Are you a mechanic at the World Cup's or simply a spectator with a good eye?

[FlaRider]

Are you a mechanic at the World Cup's or simply a spectator with a good eye?


I think he races the World Cups but I may be wrong!

[cleavel]

Hi,

Everything that 11.4 wrote sounds right on. I can only add that Roger Young says cotton tubulars only on ADT. Don't know why. I used to ride silks on the old 7-11 velodrome and I liked them. Bought them because I got them really cheap. :D

[chrisroph]

i love the vittoria evo pistas for racing and conti sprinters are very good for training. i ride at alpenrose. these would be good choices for encino. if roger says cottons only for adt, i'd get a bunch of the vittorias.

[swoop]

just do what roger young says....

[Jack Brunk]

As usual you guys are awesome. Thanks for the insight.

[e-RICHIE]

As usual you guys are awesome. Thanks for the insight.
www.noproblem.com

[Jack Brunk]

www.noproblem.com
Hey your track bike rocked at the ADT Velodrome.

[e-RICHIE]

Hey your track bike rocked at the ADT Velodrome.
thanks atmo.
ps i'm next in line for that bicycle, okay?

[Tom Byrnes]

Great topic, Jack. Thanks for starting this thread.

Tom

[J.Greene]

I think he dines at the World Cups but I may be wrong!

Yeah,

he has dined with Theo Bos. I'm sure he gets the best infield seats.

JG

[jerk]

Are you a mechanic at the World Cup's or simply a spectator with a good eye?

i think he's theo's boss.

brunkman-
conti olympics are the only way to roll.
jerk

[flux]

I think he races the World Cups but I may be wrong!

Wow. That's big time. 11.4 you should say hi to my teammate Martin Gilbert for me at the next World Cup you do. Good Luck!

Heck... you probably already know him. Never mind.

[Jack Brunk]

i think he's theo's boss.

brunkman-
conti olympics are the only way to roll.
jerk
You owe a email concerning paypal. Let me know what's on the Pinarello and I'm sure you know where I can get some?

[11.4]

I think he races the World Cups but I may be wrong!

Nope. Too old. What's the point of a sub 12 200m when the best are going under 10?

[fiamme red]

www.noproblem.comLink doesn't work. Try www.noproblematmo.com. ;)

[jerk]

You owe a email concerning paypal. Let me know what's on the Pinarello and I'm sure you know where I can get some?

i know. i need to get the right address from an associate. tomorrow.

c

[Jack Brunk]

i know. i need to get the right address from an associate. tomorrow.

c
What about the tires? What about Vittoria's?

[e-RICHIE]

What about the tires? What about Vittoria's?
screw the vittorias atmo -
you want the royal deluxe II...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHetg_A8_g0

[duke]

I learned more in three minutes than I could have sorted out on my own in five years. It is appreciated.
duke

[Jack Brunk]

I learned more in three minutes than I could have sorted out on my own in five years. It is appreciated.
duke
You are so correct. Hey 11.4, are coming out to LA for the world cup? If so I want to buy you a cocktail of your choice. Most would want to set down with world leaders to pick their brain but I want to set down with 11.4.

[manet]

Y are track tires pneumatic, not solid rubber?

[Jack Brunk]

Are the Vittoria EVO Pista that much better than their standard pista tire at almost double the cost?

[RudAwkning]

Not meaning to hijack this tire thread, but I've been thinking of building up a tubular wheelset for the track. I'm running C-Record high flange 24h/2cross laced to Aerohead Velocity rims with Supercomp HD 700x20s right now for my clinchers.

I've got a set of NOS Mavic GEL 280 36h rims. Will these build into decent track wheels? I was told I'm too heavy for them as I weigh 175ish, but I'm assuming that was for road application. The demands on the track are different.

If not, what should I be on the lookout for?

[11.4]

Are the Vittoria EVO Pista that much better than their standard pista tire at almost double the cost?

Yes. The Pista CS's are pretty much junk -- a Conti sprinter is much better. The Evo CS Pista is a superb tire. Get them from Ribble Cycles for about $50 per tire -- worth it if you buy a dozen or so at a time to cover shipping. I get them for about $41 apiece when I'm in Belgium but am not heading over anytime soon.

[11.4]

Not meaning to hijack this tire thread, but I've been thinking of building up a tubular wheelset for the track. I'm running C-Record high flange 24h/2cross laced to Aerohead Velocity rims with Supercomp HD 700x20s right now for my clinchers.

I've got a set of NOS Mavic GEL 280 36h rims. Will these build into decent track wheels? I was told I'm too heavy for them as I weigh 175ish, but I'm assuming that was for road application. The demands on the track are different.

If not, what should I be on the lookout for?

Depends on your events and your track. GEL 280s tend to wobble a bit if you are doing all-out starts and jumps on them. For anything else, they are usually OK. If your track is very uneven (Alpenrose is a perfect example, with very awkward transitions) or you're riding a lot on a very steep track, you might want a slightly stiffer wheel. At track speeds, aero issues in your wheels are arguably more important than weight ones (Mavic Io and Comete track wheels are notoriously heavy), so better to go to GP4s or something like that. If you're on a substantial improvement curve, you'll find that if you are getting faster but your equipment is unstable in accelerations, you just won't put your all into it. Stable and heavy is often faster than light and bling.

[mister]

lol, everytime i see atmo written it seems funnier and funnier, atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

lol, everytime i see atmo written it seems funnier and funnier, atmo.
richiepedia (http://serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=447649&postcount=3) atmo -

[chrisroph]

http://agouracycles.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=6405

these used to be realy good but I haven't used any for a while....