Zipp 404's

[mail2josh]

I'm thinking about purchasing a set of Zipp 404 clinchers for my Ottrott ST. I'd like to hear any opinions from people who have owned/ridden these wheels. How much of a difference in time does a rim with this depth (58mm) save per mile at 20-25 MPH? Will crosswinds be much of a problem?

[EdK]

They are fast but not very stiff. They were terrible crit wheels for me always rubbing the chainstay ( i weigh 185lbs though) . I would pick Cosmic Carbones or Reynolds stratus over the zipps. Both are fast and stiff. Good luck!

[saab2000]

.... Zipp 303s. They are reviewed on www.cyclingnews.com and get rave reviews. Worth thinking about at least.

[Scott]

I have 2004 model 404 clinchers and am surprised that someone could flex them enough for them to rub the chain stay. Maybe they meant the front der. Either way I think these wheels are awesome. They are very fast and plenty stiff for me (170lbs). They are also much lighter than the Carbones (never ridden the Reynolds although they have a great rep). Carbones weigh in at over 1900 grams. The 404's a hair over 1600. If you're going for way light get the tublars at just over 1200 grams. My other wheels are Mavic K's and these wheels weigh about the same, feel faster and are more comfortable (They climb great for aeros). The only down side is the carbon cap that's on the end of the hub. It rattles a litte on rough pavement which is annoying. Anyone know how to stop this?

BTW, Got mine for $900 including zipp Ti skewers on Ebay.

[zap]

If Zipps aren't stiff, the build is off or something broke.

After crashing on the tandem and seeing the side loading our Zipp front wheel took for 30-40 ft., I'm sold on there stiffness. The darn wheel stayed true. My Zipp 303 on one single is also very stiff.

Crosswinds will be an issue to consider with 58mm rims. Consider Zipps 38mm rim since I consider that depth manageable on windy days.

As for the amount of time saved, check the web for aero stats. Others might post some info later.

[EdK]

These were factory built on factory 2nd gen hubs. In my opinion wippy POS! If you like em buy em!

[bostondrunk]

First of all, do yourself a favor and get the tubular version. Lighter, rides nicer, can use higher pressure, and no aluminum rim glued to a carbon rim, just a nice one piece carbon rim.
If they were touching your chainstay, then yes, there was a problem with the build. 180 pounds or not, the pros can't flex them that much, neither can you.
My teammate and I both have the 404 tubies. My carbon hub caps don't make a sound, his do rattle a bit, no biggie, and we haven;t had a close look at them to see if we can eliminate it.
Oh, BTW, mine are in their 3rd Summer of racing use (including crits) and have never needed to be trued, I weigh 175.
Cosmic Carbones are damn nice too, and probably have nicer hubs, but they are about a pound heavier, so it depends on whether or not that is important to you. I've never had the opportunity to try a pair.

[Bruce K]

If you are looking for clincher carbon rims you might want to also check out the HED ALPS wheels as well.

They are a little less money thatn the Zipps and plenty durable.

I have been riding them for 2 seasons now and am a 203-213# rider. I have used them on about 50% of my rides.

They have remained quiet and a real pleasure to ride.

No truing issues. One problem with an older design rear hub flange, no problem with the new design (replaced for free by HED).

Like all deeper rims, cross winds can make your life a little "exciting" but they are great in all other situations.

BK

[EdK]

Why does every discussion asking an opinion become a holy war? I gave my opinion and my experience. I am not looking for anyone to refute what I have personally experienced! I am 180+ pounds I have raced 40+ races this year I am a cat 2 senior plus race masters. I believe I am qualified to answer the question and have an opinion. In my opinion Zipp 404s are junk. I am not looking for alternatives or reasons, they are what they are. It wasn't the build they were brand new factory built TUBULAR Zipp 404s... JUNK!! Sorry but as the handle says my .02.........

[zap]

EdK

I don't think anyone was refuting your experience. On the contrary, the posts indicate that the build may have been off or as I stated, something broke. Doesn't matter if they were brand new or not. Every once in a while something goes wrong in production.

Did you contact Zipp regarding your problem with the wheelset?

[EdK]

Zap

Sorry misinterpreted, no joy from Zipp.

[vaxn8r]

Ed, that's a lot of racing! What kind of races do you do and where? Do you have a regular job too?

I hardly race any more due to time constraints. I do all the training because that's time efficient. And basically I just like being in shape and riding hard. Racing...that just wrecks your entire day!

[bostondrunk]

Ed,
Wow, with that much racing, I would have hoped that you would know that it isn't normal for any wheel to flex so much that it hits your chainstay. Guess we skipped bike mechanics 101 when we started cycling??
Then again, maybe I am wrong, and the zipps were built perfectly, and your massive senior 2 quads are simply beyond the limits of the Zipp wheels....
Hey, you asked for it! I mean, did ya ever have a qualified shop mechanic look at the wheel??? :crap:

oooo...that was harsh, wasn't it!!! But its kinda like <burp> me saying that my rear carbon stay on my ottrott makes loud creaking noises when I sprint, so it must be flexy. It might be true that it creaks, but its probably indicative of a build/structure problem, not my strength and/or the 'stays weakness.... :bike:

[jerk]

the jerk likes cosmic carbones. they may be heavy but they are stiff, fast strong and make really stupid noises so when you're bridgeing up everyone knows you're coming. as for zipps go....they are a little flexy....the hubs do suck....but they are also really fast and really light.....the reason for the existence of the clincher is something the jerk will never understand. would you put all season tires on a formula one car?

[bostondrunk]

clinchers are for people who are afraid they will become addicted to sniffing tubular glue.......Mmmmmmmmmm.....conti rim cement....

[dirtdigger88]

sir drunk,

I know this is an age old question, but what about flats on tubs. are you talking about for racing only or for every day riding. I ask because I live in down town St. Louis. I ride on some the uglest roads one can encounter. Rocks, pot holes, glass, needles, etc. yuck!!! I have wanted to try tubs, but I fear that for my type of riding I may just be asking for trouble

Jason

[zap]

Jerk,

the way formula one is going, they just might do that. There almost there as it is :rolleyes:

[EdK]

Vax

Mostly 40 and 45 plus racing lately. I do have a real job plus three kids. Just a very understanding wife and some job hours flexibility. I live in Southern Ca. and there are usually two races a week to choose from.

Drunk

Not certain what the problem I do know it was not something obvious and I don't trust any shop employee more than myself. They seemed true and straight they just flexed lots and lots.

[jrisles]

Hi Groovers

Just wanted your opinion on the Zipp's 440's compared with the models being discussed on this thread??

cheers
Jeff
Brisbane, Australia