Doctors and Athletes

[CNY rider]

Thought this would be of interest to many here, since this topic comes up from time to time.
Full disclosure: I am a Doctor, and I sometimes pretend to be an athlete!

Times Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/health/nutrition/03Best.html)

Excerpt:

YOU are an athlete, or, at least, very active. Should you seek doctors who are athletes, too? After all, some obese people pass around lists of “fat friendly” doctors who treat them with respect. Women often want female doctors.

Are athletes also a special group? And, if so, do they fare any differently if they see doctors who are athletes?

[Ginger]

Are athletes also a special group? And, if so, do they fare any differently if they see doctors who are athletes?

Yes.

Emphatically yes when it comes to physical therapy.

Actually...your PT and doctor don't have to be athletes themselves, but they should be familiar with working with high level athletes (if you ride 50 miles at a shot comfortably, feel free to consider yourself more athletic than most of the people PTs in some areas of the country see on a daily basis.)

That's just been my experience.

My last knee doc has actually heard of the Mt. Washington hill climb and was taking up snowshoeing as cross training last time I had to visit him.

The worst doc I had was my ankle doc. When I told him I couldn't walk three miles anymore, his nurse piped up with: "Why would you want to do that?"

[avalonracing]

About 10 years ago went to a sports medicine doc about a knee problem and he said: "You cyclists ride too much. The knees aren't supposed to do that motion for thousands of miles per year. You just need to ride less."

Nice huh?

I guess it goes with saying that I found another doc (who was shocked that the first doctor said that). The second doc got me a little PT which cleared up the problem.

[CNY rider]

About 10 years ago went to a sports medicine doc about a knee problem and he said: "You cyclists ride too much. The knees aren't supposed to do that motion for thousands of miles per year. You just need to ride less."

Nice huh?

I guess it goes with saying that I found another doc (who was shocked that the first doctor said that). The second doc got me a little PT which cleared up the problem.


Particularly surprising from a sports medicine Doc.

[GregL]

Our family orthopedic surgeon is a triathlete/cyclist/mountain climber. We met him eleven years ago when my wife ruptured her Achilles tendon. She was a pro racquetball player at the time and wanted to be at the US Open in six months. All the docs she spoke with said absolutely no way, 1 year recovery at the minimum. The last doc she saw said he could have her playing in six months if she followed his recovery protocol exactly and worked well in PT. Six months later, she made it to the quarter-finals at the open.

Needless to say, we have stuck with this doc. In addition to my wife's Achilles tendon, he has also performed surgery on her ankle, my knee, and gave my wife a great referral for a foot operation. When the timing is right, he will be cleaning up my shoulder. He understands the mindset of an athlete and knows both the physical and emotional tolls an injury takes. If you need an orthopedic surgeon in CNY, PM me for details.

BTW, the athlete/doctor connection also helped out my wife big-time when she had her first serious bike crash last fall. After a crash during a fast group ride, my wife had her first ambulance ride and ER visit. Only one ER in the city was accepting patients and it was backed up badly. The ambulance almost couldn't get to the hospital emergency entrance due to the amount of ER traffic! When they wheeled my wife through the doors, I had visions of an 8-12 hour wait. To my joy, the first face we saw was a cyclist/nurse friend of ours. He (male nurse) managed to get no less than two cyclist/docs to quickly triage and treat my wife. Once it was ascertained that she had no head injury or broken bones, the cyclist/nurse quickly treated my wife out in the hallway (no rooms available) and got us on our way. We were in and out of the ER in under 3 hours!

Regards,
Greg

[Viper]

My Doctor is Chuck Norris.

[Johny]

Full disclosure: I am a Doctor, and I sometimes pretend to be an athlete!



See Eric that's the problem. :) I wanna see the best doctors, not the best athletes. :D

[Fixed]

bro I want a nerd doc ..you need the cat and he's out riding his bike
cheers imho

[Ginger]

Particularly surprising from a sports medicine Doc.

No...I heard the same thing from one who played tennis...
(not an old guy either...)

[dsb]

Well... I'm sad to hear that I'm not alone in this, but maybe if it's happening enough the medical professionals will get a clue...

My latest in a long line:

I hurt my lower back doing O-lifts (clean pulls specifically...) 3rd time in as many months and it's kept me from my training for about a month... So I go to the Doc and tell him that 'I've hurt my lower back lifting weights'. He asks if I can sit, stand yada yada yada... Basically, by this time I'm a fully functioning couch potato, and I'm not likely to have my pulse quit so I guess no red flags went up... He gives me a script for Percoset and muscle relaxers and he's on to the next... No dialog what-so-ever about how it happened, what I'm doing or trying to do, history of the injury, no PT referal, nada... I guess he figures it's a self correcting situation, if I hurt myself bad enough I'll stop doing whatever is causing the injury without any intervention on his part... The sad thing is that this is so typical of the responses I've gotten over the years from a wide array of Doctors that I have no idea of where to go next to try and improve my odds of getting any meaningful treatment...

[2LeftCleats]

I'm an internist who's an avid cyclist and runner. I'm hesitant to label myself an athlete given my so-so speed, power and endurance. That said, I have an appreciation of what it means for vigorous patients to be sidelined by an injury or illness. As a group, athletically-inclined people tend to push very hard to get back to their pre-injury performance. Sometimes they rush too much, but my anecdotal experience is that the highly motivated are able to safely speed the healing process because they expect to get better quickly. And I suspect their restorative systems are better equipped to deliver on that expectation. Inactive folks have lesser expectations and they achieve at a slower speed and less completely. Tough to motivate them. I think most physicians fall into the inactive category and are rather conservative in their expectations, following guidelines that are more based on tradition than grounded in science.

[zank]

It's one reaon I want to be a physician.

[avalonracing]

It's one reaon I want to be a physician.

Are cute nurses the next reason?

[zank]

And risk my marriage to a cute doctor?

[Onno]

Great question. About some issues it probably doesn't matter, but if I had a choice, about most of the things I see a doctor about, I'd prefer an athlete. They'd understand why particular injuries and kinds of pain really matter if they interfere with our ability to do something we love, or to perform at the level we'd like (I'm still talking sports here). As has already been noted here too, athlete doctors have a better sense of how athletes recuperate. I'd bet that most people that doctors see are not fit, and don't really take a lot of care to their own health. In this sense, athletes are a different species. Aren't most of you envious of professional athletes, many of whom have their own personal doctors and physical therapists and trainers?

On the other hand, for the majority of my aches and injuries, I realize that I probably already know what I should do (rest, stretching, strengthening, learning to cope). As I get older, I realize that I'm getting slowly less inclined to see doctors, even with good health insurance. My sore back, knee, hip, elbow, etc., are not going to get better by visiting a doctor, but by learning how to deal and live with these problems on my own.

[swoop]

i just want a doc that doesn't conceptualize everything the same way. i want a doc that works in and out of the box and sees each patient as an individual rather than as a diagnosis. i wanna doc that knows their own weakness.

and i wanna doc maybe that's had some time being a patient.



who cares what angle they take or what they do on the days off... its that they get it.

[Ginger]

i just want a doc that doesn't conceptualize everything the same way. i want a doc that works in and out of the box and sees each patient as an individual rather than as a diagnosis. i wanna doc that knows their own weakness.

and i wanna doc maybe that's had some time being a patient.



who cares what angle they take or what they do on the days off... its that they get it.

Yeah, and he has to be really really easy on the eyes and he has to tell me what he would tell his family member (whom he likes) with the same injury.

If someone needs an ortho like that in the Detroit area, I found one. He's never operated on me, but he's clarified the heck out of my situation for me and sent me where I needed to go to see the docs I needed to see and has treated everyone I've sent to him in the same considerate, considered manner.
I usually laugh when someone says they have a favorite orthopedic surgeon...but it dawned on me...I do too.

[Dave B]

my sister-in-law just graduated med school and is now in residency. She told me that never was a bedside manner discussed or taught.

Imagine the intellect it takes to become a doctor...maybe there are some who also lack the personality it may take to become a good doctor.


What surprises any of you.

are there not crappy teachers, lawyers, gardners, or even friends.

There are people who enjoy interactions and people who don't/

Doctors are people we often convince ourselves to see as better as they have answers we are looking for.

Funny how this isn't often the case.

[mgm777]

+1

A very good and brilliant friend whom I went to college with opted to attend Med School following our undergrad experience. He had always wanted to be a doc and felt it was his life's calling. During his last year of med school, he discovered that he really didn't like treating sick people...thought they "smelled bad and whined too much." As a result, he became a Pathologist. Recently, he admitted to me that the only class he ever failed, in his entire academic career, was in his words..."some fuzzy course in doctor/patient relations." At least my friend was self aware enough not to pretend. He is currently a very successful Chief of Pathology at a major hospital in the SW.

[shaq-d]

+1

A very good and brilliant friend whom I went to college with opted to attend Med School following our undergrad experience. He had always wanted to be a doc and felt it was his life's calling. During his last year of med school, he discovered that he really didn't like treating sick people...thought they "smelled bad and whined too much." As a result, he became a Pathologist. Recently, he admitted to me that the only class he ever failed, in his entire academic career, was in his words..."some fuzzy course in doctor/patient relations." At least my friend was self aware enough not to pretend. He is currently a very successful Chief of Pathology at a major hospital in the SW.

omg, you know DR HOUSE!!

[bnewt07]

I'm a doc (GP) and a sportsman. I tend to see a fair number of sporty patients. I also have patients who are professional musicians, sewage pump manufacturers, builders, heads of major financial organisations, teachers, newborn infants.....etc. I enjoy looking after my fit and sporty patients but they are ultimately just a small slice of the population.

Patients need a doctor who treats them with regard to their occupation and lifestyle. Their advice and treatment should be tailored to that patient. What could be worse than an 'athletic' doctor who encouarages every single patient (including those who detest the thought of regular exercise) to take up mountain biking because that is what they like themselves!

When a doctor has insufficient specialist knowledge about your sport then they also need the wisdom to refer to somebody who does.

I do not think athletes are 'a different species'. They have particular needs and demands (not always reasonable!) for sure but then so does a 15yr old first-time Mum with learning difficulties and a sick baby.

As for communication skills, as a medical teacher I can assure you that a large chunk of specialist training (and assessment) involves communication skills. You cannot practice as a GP (what you might call a family practitioner in the US) without completing this. Having taught for many years I can also say that the standard of med school graduates even before they enter specialist training are noticeably increasing.

[Too Tall]

Well said Bnewt07. My primary care doc. is not an athlete...he is a genius and happens to be in a group practice with a woman and another doc who is an ultracyclist. They talk to eachother :) Life is good. PPO is better.

[RABikes2]

GP Doc -- Marathoner and sprint triathlete
Ortho/knee Doc -- Ironman triathlete and cyclist
GYN Doc -- Runner and mountain biker

I learned a long time ago, I needed docs taken care of my medical needs that understand my lifestyle. Many years ago, I had a woman doc who couldn't for the life of her understand why I'd want to do tri's and Ironmans. Her biggest exercise was walking from her parked car into her office. She just didn't "get it"; "Why would you want to do that, it's going to tear your body down." I moved on and found the docs I have now. My ortho/knee doc states we're (cyclists, triathletes, runners) some of his favorite patients because we don't like being on the down list and want to get "back to training". We work with him on getting those results with less meds and hassle. If I do call him, he knows there must be a really dang good reason, not a little owie; gets me in right away, too.

Athletes, though, are not the easiest patients, doctors said. “They drive you nuts,” Dr. Thompson said. “They are very demanding. They are innately a select group, and a lot of athletes have a superior attitude. They are a little bit defensive.”

They tend, in fact, to be like one of my running partners, who told me that when it comes to a diagnosis, she regards doctors mainly as a source for a second opinion. The first opinion is her own, she said.

Yep, my ortho and gyn docs especially "get it" They understand the above statement from the article and don't take offense or get an attitude.

RA
Almost forgot, my chiropractor is a cyclist (century rider) and his wife is an Ironman triathlete. His type of chiropractic care (NUCCA) probably plays the biggest part in my overall health and well-being.

[ERDR]

i tell my friends who are athletes that if their doc tells them to just do less, they should find a new doc. the doc needs to understand that some of us live for our sport/hobby. me included. work is something i do in between riding and going to the gym etc. it is not my all consuming passion like they would have you believe on tv. and that is what makes me a better doc, i think. your doc needs to have those life experiences that make him a well rounded person, just like the patient. not just some uni-focused geek.
it helps if your doc has experience being a patient too.
in summary; get yourself a well-rounded geek of a doctor who knows how to suffer in life, not just in his practice. you'll both be better off.
s.

[bnewt07]

i tell my friends who are athletes that if their doc tells them to just do less, they should find a new doc....


in summary; get yourself a well-rounded geek of a doctor who knows how to suffer in life, not just in his practice. you'll both be better off.
s.

Bitter pill to swallow it may be but sometimes the best advice IS to do less, or even to stop! Not often what I say to my patients but sometimes it has to be said. Maybe easier to take from me because they know my interests but the assumption that a doc must always be wrong when they suggest a reduction is unhelpful.

I've cared for a few elite athletes, either current or retired. One in particular sufferred from a doctor (a keen athlete himself) who effectively colluded with the strongly held opinions of the patient that the cure for all his ills (and performance concerns) was just greater intensity exercise; right up to the progression if his tibial stress fracture....

We should also all have doctors who are prepared to be honest, not just to agree with us. As patients we are poor at self-diagnosis (and that includes me).

[ERDR]

my point is that too many docs see their patients as the typical couch potato american. of course rest is important, as in over use injuries. but to many, exercise is an important part of life. my cross sectional view of patients is worrisome. most can't walk to the mail box without taking a break. the point is the athletic patients should be encouraged, not brought down to the level of functioning of the stereotypical american. one of my riding buddies lost the genetic lottery and has significant cardiac family risk factors. i use him as my example. instead of encouraging him to get in the best shape possible, his cardiologist more or less has him sitting around. there surely is middle ground.
that is my point, and i'm sticking to it.
s.