interesting quote from rock lobster [Archive]

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Climb01742

01-01-2008, 10:34 AM

given all the heated debate on the forum over carbon in the rear of metal bikes, this quote from the rock lobster site caught my attention:

"The top of the aluminum line is the Team Carbon built with a Scandium 7000 front triangle and full carbon Easton EC-90 rear triangle. This frame weighs a little less than 3 lbs. and is designed for long road races where comfort over rough roads is just as important as immediate pedal response in climbing and sprinting. This combination of materials offers the best ride quality of any I have personally ridden in my 28 years of designing and building frames."

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 10:57 AM

The man has got to make living too.

JG

given all the heated debate on the forum over carbon in the rear of metal bikes, this quote from the rock lobster site caught my attention:

"The top of the aluminum line is the Team Carbon built with a Scandium 7000 front triangle and full carbon Easton EC-90 rear triangle. This frame weighs a little less than 3 lbs. and is designed for long road races where comfort over rough roads is just as important as immediate pedal response in climbing and sprinting. This combination of materials offers the best ride quality of any I have personally ridden in my 28 years of designing and building frames."

Viper

01-01-2008, 11:06 AM

And Lucky Charms are, "Part of a nutritious breakfast" atmo.

DarrenCT

01-01-2008, 11:11 AM

The man has got to make living too.

JG

u mean u think he is ummmm just saying that to increase his sales ????????????

:crap:

Viper

01-01-2008, 11:20 AM

u mean u think he is ummmm just saying that to increase his sales ????????????

:crap:

Lucky Charms is, "Fortified with 12 vitamins and minerals, and is a good source of calcium." Plus, as we know, they are, "Magically delicious."

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:KFcFxFKilakJ:www.generalmills.com/corporate/brands/brand.aspx%3FcatID%3D69+lucky+charms+cereal+fortif ied+with&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Dr. Doofus

01-01-2008, 11:20 AM

he really likes his personal bike, which is one of the AL/CBN things

he had a personal lugged bike but sold it last year

everybody is different

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 11:23 AM

u mean u think he is ummmm just saying that to increase his sales ????????????

:crap:

When I was taught to sell it was all about explaining the features, and telling the benefits.

JG

davids

01-01-2008, 11:47 AM

he really likes his personal bike, which is one of the AL/CBN things

he had a personal lugged bike but sold it last year

everybody is different+1

Are we ever going to get past the materials debate? A framebuilder who knows what he's doing can make a great frame out of any material. There's nothing sacred about steel or lugs. There's nothing inherently evil about carbon or aluminum.

Move on folks, there's nothing to see here.

p.s. Happy New Year, everyone!

William

01-01-2008, 11:49 AM

Ahh, carbon fiber. The "Wonder Bread" for the masses. A man's got to eat you know. If I could turn Wonder Bread into lettuce, I'd do it to.

Just Sayin'

William

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 11:57 AM

+1

Are we ever going to get past the materials debate?
Move on folks, there's nothing to see here.

p.s. Happy New Year, everyone!

My impression was that this was really about marketing.

JG

Ginger

01-01-2008, 12:23 PM

My impression was that this was really about marketing.

JG

Yeah, and I love ya James....but I was wondering about someone who's involved in the marketing industry slapping up some marketing quip from a competitor.

:)

Steve Hampsten

01-01-2008, 12:34 PM

If Paul says he likes that combo, then he likes that combo. He doesn't strike me as a BS artiste.

Grant McLean

01-01-2008, 12:36 PM

And Lucky Charms are, "Part of a nutritious breakfast" atmo.

that's 'effin funny!

-g

Viper

01-01-2008, 12:41 PM

Marketing. Isn't that what George Costanza did?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhhzwjt2AG0

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 12:46 PM

If Paul says he likes that combo, then he likes that combo. He doesn't strike me as a BS artiste.

I hope I didn't imply that he made it up. Buyers and sellers like different stuff. It's one of the reasons to have a product line. I believe him when he says "this is my favorite frame or combo". But would he ever say "this is my second favorite", or "this one is almost as good"?

It's all features and benefits

JG

Viper

01-01-2008, 12:50 PM

For ti-boi and the world, some of the best Glenn Frey/Pepsi/Vice marketing, ever atmo lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HByh60JAlc

Also, successful marketing atmo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fses09xX34

flux

01-01-2008, 01:12 PM

This combination of materials offers the best ride quality of any I have personally ridden in my 28 years of designing and building frames."

Funny (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg)

Dr. Doofus

01-01-2008, 01:22 PM

how many cats here have ever talked to this guy?

djg

01-01-2008, 01:38 PM

The man has got to make living too.

JG

Well, I dunno, but my guess would be just that he's found a way to make something he really likes using certain available pipes -- including carbon stays made by Easton -- and that what he's choosing to market is a product which he's actually glad to make and sell because he believes in it. Just because there are great bikes -- maybe even bikes you'd prefer -- built differently, doesn't mean it's all just hot air.

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 02:01 PM

Just because there are great bikes -- maybe even bikes you'd prefer -- built differently, doesn't mean it's all just hot air.

I don't think I ever said he was hot air or BS.

Features/benefits.

JG

Ginger

01-01-2008, 02:38 PM

If Paul says he likes that combo, then he likes that combo. He doesn't strike me as a BS artiste.

Didn't say it was BS. It is persuasive subjective opinion and...marketing.

There will always be a new "best I've ever ridden" bike for everyone. Yay!

I will say that I have a bit more critical audience for technical marketing materials I create than required on some web sites, so perhaps I'm over sensitive to the persuasive vs real factor. It's a legal thing.

There is 'safety' in using that sort of employee quote...and I'm jealous that I can't. :)

(Yes, he builds bikes and he has a lot of experience and has been riding a long long time and he's credible, that's not my point.)

My point was:
This is a competitor's marketing pitch.

That's all.

A.L.Breguet

01-01-2008, 02:41 PM

:argue:

swoop

01-01-2008, 02:50 PM

there is absolutely no reason that a carbon frame is better than an aluminum frame just because its made of carbon.
if you believe carbon is better you have been marketed into a way of thinking that isn't based on anything real.

if someone like parlee or crumpton had the same relationship with the materials they get from carbon... with aluminum... i believe that they'd be making equally sublime bikes in that material. craft happens in any medium.

atmo.

Climb01742

01-01-2008, 02:57 PM

experienced builders can intelligently disagree. would that were the case amongst ourselves. why is the rock lobster quote "marketing" vs just the builder's honest opinion? he makes many bikes; if it was just marketing hype, why wouldn't he hype all his bikes?

doc doof has a rock lobster. he likes it. he seems to respect the builder. that's what got me to visit the site. why slam the builder as a hypster, when he simply may be giving his opinion...an opinion based on many years of frame building experience? heck, our esteemed hosts believe in carbon ST.

Fixed

01-01-2008, 03:00 PM

bro he's doc's bro go easy
my fav bike the merckx the miele the cannondale ?
no ....my cheap 7005 alum fixed gear mt bike with a nice steel fork perfect for me
cheers

e-RICHIE

01-01-2008, 03:02 PM

ps paul is a 'crosser and supports 'cross.
ergo he gets it atmo.

Dr. Doofus

01-01-2008, 03:05 PM

paul sadoff gem:

when first ordered a frame, it was a TIG steel. i asked if he'd do a steel fork, cause i'd heard some informed voices say that a lot of them were poorly aligned...i told him that i had an ouzo at home, though...he said: carbon forks poorly made? what is that, some (framebuilder name deleted) thing? i use reynolds and alpha q all the time, and they're great.

pretty funny and to the point guy

J.Greene

01-01-2008, 03:19 PM

climbo,

why make the stupid post if you didn't want a discusson? You yourself reffered to a heated debate that has already taken place. Why start another?

btw, weren't you the one going after Dr. Doof's Pacenti last year because it offended your inner pegoretti?

JG

experienced builders can intelligently disagree. would that were the case amongst ourselves. why is the rock lobster quote "marketing" vs just the builder's honest opinion? he makes many bikes; if it was just marketing hype, why wouldn't he hype all his bikes?

doc doof has a rock lobster. he likes it. he seems to respect the builder. that's what got me to visit the site. why slam the builder as a hypster, when he simply may be giving his opinion...an opinion based on many years of frame building experience? heck, our esteemed hosts believe in carbon ST.

Dr. Doofus

01-01-2008, 03:25 PM

we are the world moment

can we all hold hands and agree that there is a serious taste deficit at work here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0uallayZYs&feature=related

?

vaxn8r

01-01-2008, 03:37 PM

Didn't say it was BS. It is persuasive subjective opinion and...marketing.

There will always be a new "best I've ever ridden" bike for everyone. Yay!

I will say that I have a bit more critical audience for technical marketing materials I create than required on some web sites, so perhaps I'm over sensitive to the persuasive vs real factor. It's a legal thing.

There is 'safety' in using that sort of employee quote...and I'm jealous that I can't. :)

(Yes, he builds bikes and he has a lot of experience and has been riding a long long time and he's credible, that's not my point.)

My point was:
This is a competitor's marketing pitch.

That's all.
You want proof? You can't handle the proof!

manet

01-01-2008, 03:38 PM

why make the stupid post if you didn't want a discusson?
JG

2008's opener

A.L.Breguet

01-01-2008, 03:47 PM

we are the world moment

can we all hold hands and agree that there is a serious taste deficit at work here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0uallayZYs&feature=related

?
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal!

manet

01-01-2008, 03:51 PM

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e-RICHIE

01-01-2008, 03:53 PM

.
atmo - (http://www.internetis****.org/)

BumbleBeeDave

01-01-2008, 04:05 PM

. . . for something to argue about here. I went and looked at the web site and the frame descriptions are very matter-of-fact. He's a master frame builder--he's giving his opinions on his own web site. Why all the hoo-hah?

It's a holiday. Relax!

BBD

e-RICHIE

01-01-2008, 04:07 PM

. . . for something to argue about here.
BBD
overheard in austen atmo -
for what do we live, but to make sport for our
neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?

Climb01742

01-01-2008, 04:36 PM

why make the stupid post if you didn't want a discusson?

wow. why do you feel it's necessary to call it "stupid"?

Dr. Doofus

01-01-2008, 04:54 PM

atmo - (http://www.internetis****.org/)

01110111011001010111001001100101001000000110000100 10000001101000011000010111000001110000011110010010 00000110011001100001011011010110100101101100011110 01000011010000101001110111011001010111001001100101 00100000011000010010000001101000011000010111000001 11000001111001001000000110011001100001011011010110 10010110110001111001000011010000101001110111011001 01011100100110010100100000011000010010000001101000 01100001011100000111000001111001001000000110011001 10000101101101011010010110110001111001000011010000 10100110110101100101001000000110000101101110011001 00001000000110110101101111011011010010000001100001 01101110011001000010000001100100011000010110010001 10010001111001

swoop

01-01-2008, 05:06 PM

for the record, climb is the least argumentative, most drama free cat ever. he's just sayin'....

shinomaster

01-01-2008, 05:30 PM

Ginger

01-01-2008, 06:24 PM

for the record, climb is the least argumentative, most drama free cat ever. he's just sayin'....

James is lovely.

The cat knows what marketing is and isn't.

:D

Chris

01-01-2008, 07:22 PM

All this talk has made me want to get a Rock Lobster. Anyone want a freshly custom painted 60cm System 6?

William

01-01-2008, 07:30 PM

Rocks Rock!! :cool:
&
James is a cool cucumber. :beer:

I've propprd RL's for a number of years here. They are at the top tier of my want list. If he's going carbon, more power to him.

Hmmm, what would y'all say if "e" started sniffing glue? Red tinted carbon.....? :p

William

Lifelover

01-01-2008, 07:30 PM

overheard in austen atmo -
for what do we live, but to make sport for our
neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?

Best A&E Mini series ever. If you are a Chick!

Pete Serotta

01-03-2008, 09:36 AM

:bike: ride what you want, like what you want, respect others opinion and let go :beer: :beer: after we ride

jerk

01-03-2008, 10:14 AM

a made to measure Easton scandium bike is about as badaess as it gets. welding aluminum sucks in a small production setting. its dirty, smelly and sort of awful by most accounts. most builders don't like doing them...nonetheless, a bike like those rock lobsters, toyota united's house bikes from a few years back and of course, the merckx premiums rocked by chocolade jacques represent to me, what every pro team in the world would be riding if part of the job wasnt to sell bikes.

effective tools. i think aluminum race bikes are one area of equipment that is not about marketing.

jerk

iml

01-03-2008, 10:21 AM

Agree. My Easton scandium RL 'cross race frame is awesome. I will keep getting frames from Paul as long as he makes them.

grosmerou

01-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Might be go !

but Al is a killer material for most if not every rider.

And may be it is good to look forward, and live with your time.

Al has no perks, steel, Ti have character, Al is bland.

So far every body is free of his choice.

J.Greene

01-03-2008, 10:59 AM

:bike: ride what you want, like what you want, respect others opinion and let go :beer: :beer: after we ride

Hey Pete,

This has been dead for 2 days. Are you trying to throw gas on the fire? :D

JG

Pete Serotta

01-03-2008, 11:02 AM

no, I got some notes form a few folks on it....That is why I read it and posted. I did not look at dates. (I should have) Sorry...PETE

Fixed

01-03-2008, 11:04 AM

i have 2 alum bikes one i ride everyday the other never i'm dumb but a steel fork makes even alum. doable for me
cheers :beer:

93legendti

01-03-2008, 11:20 AM

i have 2 alum bikes one i ride everyday the other never i'm dumb but a steel fork makes even alum. doable for me
cheers :beer:

I'm with fixed (except for thinking he's dumb: he's not). I've had good alum bikes and bad. I thought we decided a long time ago that it is not the material, but the design.* I have talked to Paul about stems and forks and he seems like a straight shooter. If he says he likes a scandium bike with a full carbon rear triangle, I believe him. I know Carl Strong builds in alum and I have not heard anyone question his approach.

*To wit: The worst bike I ever road was a steel Carrera in Majorca. It sucked the joy out of riding and I could not wait to get off it.

davids

01-03-2008, 11:47 AM

I'm with fixed (except for thinking he's dumb: he's not). I've had good alum bikes and bad. I thought we decided a long time ago that it is not the material, but the design.* I have talked to Paul about stems and forks and he seems like a straight shooter. If he says he likes a scandium bike with a full carbon rear triangle, I believe him. I know Carl Strong builds in alum and I have not heard anyone question his approach.

*To wit: The worst bike I ever road was a steel Carrera in Majorca. It sucked the joy out of riding and I could not wait to get off it.
I don't often agree with Adam so, yeah (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=452222&postcount=8)!

93legendti

01-03-2008, 11:54 AM

I don't often agree with Adam so, yeah (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=452222&postcount=8)!

I have my moments. :)

Satellite

01-03-2008, 07:30 PM

Hmmm... This thread made me take a closer look at Rock Lobsters website. I am thinking about putting in an order for a Road Tandem. Anyone have experience with RL's Tandems?

Satellite

Dr. Doofus

01-03-2008, 08:38 PM

swoop

01-03-2008, 08:56 PM

Jeff Weir

01-03-2008, 09:01 PM

I have only heard good things about Rock Lobster.