Pegoretti opinion

[sailorboy]

Getting on the wait list and probably looking at a new Marcelo. Still just a bit of doubt floating around though as to whether I really need the chainstays/dropout combo on that model, with the option of going with a Duende instead. Can anyone with some experience on these models, or good second hand knowledge comment on the differences. Specifically, is someone who generally weighs 160 or so going to notice significant differences? either negative or positive.

The intent is for this bike to end up as the occasional race day or climbing bike. I have more compliant frames for all-day riding if need be. So, if it is a little more harsh in the rear end, that is probably not a big deal. I Definietly appreciate a bike that handles poor road surfaces well, and would prefer that over all out power transmission if one must be marginalized for the other.

Thanks

[DarrenCT]

no clue, however, make sure to get the cool crown fork

[flux]

You will notice the difference. Rear end is a rocket ship... comfort being sacrificed. I say go for the complete package.

[Climb01742]

a duende is a very good bike. a marcelo is amazing. as flux says, go for the rocket.

[itspeedmoore]

I have a Marcelo and it is an impressive rocket. I also have another frame that I would choose for a century. For pure performance, the Marcelo is the way to go... fast!

[Jack Brunk]

Sean,

For me the Marcelo was way too stiff and not fun to ride at all. The frame was so stiff that it was uncomfortable to ride. After speaking with the Jerk, the Duende would be be my choice.

[sailorboy]

Yea, this is similar to what some previous threads spoke of. Only problem is I would guess that folks who leaned toward the less stiff choices were either a little bit toward the older age groups here, or the lightweights. Just a guess, but most folks don't say that in the posts. I'm sort of in the middle on both-- 37 y/o and normal weight about 160. Opinions from speedsters like flux and climb are taken with the appropriate grain of salt!! I was racing as a 3 before coming to Japan and definitely appreciate a zippy frame, but I guess I would say most of my racing days are behind me at this point.

For me the Marcelo would represent a pure Pegoretti race bike experience, which could be worth it all by itself, just may not be the best choice for me given age, riding habits etc. Something to chew on for a while, thanks for the input.

[vaxn8r]

I'd "want" the Marcelo. I'd probably like the Duende.

If I had multiple rides...Marcelo, hands down. Then you can use it as a tool for the job.

[davyt]

Sailorboy,

I found myself in the same sort of situation, waffling between a Duende and a Marcelo. For the record, I'm 50 and weigh about 175 pounds. I have no racing pretensions but do like to ride in the hills here in rural Santa Cruz County. After Dario measured me, we talked about my dilemma and he told me that what I really wanted was a Responsorium. That's what I got and I couldn't be happier with it!
--
Davy

P.S. I haven't ridden a Duende but I didn't find the ride of a Marcelo overly harsh at all. It was a fairly short ride, though...

[sailorboy]

Very cool, straight from the source. Well, I hope he doesn't call me and tell me the same thing since I'd be compelled to drop an extra grand lest I go against his recommendation. I think Vax might've encapsulated the answer the most succint way yet, I wish I could have the Marcelo--and ride it like it deserves, but I probably belong on the Duende. A welcome compromise might involve taking the $500 price difference and throwing it into a racier wheelset which, when combined with ultra-torque cranks, will probably offer up as much drivetrain stiffness as I am prepared use. Sailorboy,

I found myself in the same sort of situation, waffling between a Duende and a Marcelo. For the record, I'm 50 and weigh about 175 pounds. I have no racing pretensions but do like to ride in the hills here in rural Santa Cruz County. After Dario measured me, we talked about my dilemma and he told me that what I really wanted was a Responsorium. That's what I got and I couldn't be happier with it!
--
Davy

P.S. I haven't ridden a Duende but I didn't find the ride of a Marcelo overly harsh at all. It was a fairly short ride, though...

[davyt]

Very cool, straight from the source. Well, I hope he doesn't call me and tell me the same thing since I'd be compelled to drop an extra grand lest I go against his recommendation. I think Vax might've encapsulated the answer the most succint way yet, I wish I could have the Marcelo--and ride it like it deserves, but I probably belong on the Duende. A welcome compromise might involve taking the $500 price difference and throwing it into a racier wheelset which, when combined with ultra-torque cranks, will probably offer up as much drivetrain stiffness as I am prepared use.
Do keep in mind that there were other factors that influenced this choice: comfort (read as crappy pavement), rust resistance (since we live near the coast and often ride to the beach), budget (my family wanted to give me a special birthday gift, so I used the opportunity to get a very special bike).

I used to think the same as you: this is a Pegoretti after all, a pedigreed race bike and I will never be able to ride it in the manner it deserves. But, ultimately, it will get used regularly, it's found a good home and no one, I repeat no one, could enjoy this bike more than me; this bike belongs to me and I belong on this bike. So, there you go...

Good luck with your decision: I don't think you can really go wrong with any of your choices!

[jchasse]

Can you share any info on the Pegoretti wait list? Wait time? Do you work through the US distributor, or directly with Dario? How / where did you get measured?

[Climb01742]

believe me, i ain't in flux's speedster category, not by a long way!! and jack b. is right, a marcelo can beat you up over bad roads on longer rides. if it was your only bike, i'd say the duende for sure. but if you have other, more forgiving rides, the jet-ride of a marcelo is such a hoot. it accelerates like no other bike i've ever ridden. the respo does everything amazingly well; if it's in your budget, that would be my #1 suggestion. but if not, and if you have other bikes, the marcelo is like a lotus sports car: not all day but for shorter rides, yippee!! :D

[Ángel García]

I ride a Duende and it is a joy to ride, very responsive and easy to handle. Did not consider a Marcelo as I do not race, but I do not miss anything.

[amg]

Sailorboy,

I echo some of the comments here, if it's in your budget, I think the Responsorium represents the best choice given your requirements. If not, then the Marcelo or the Duende would do fine. I run through this "dilema" in my head almost daily. When I'm actually ready to pull the trigger I'll probably being posting the same question on the board! :D

I curretly ride an 8:30am which I believe along with the Fina Estampa were desigend as aluminum counterparts to the steel Marcelo. The 8:30am is fast, very responsive and a hoot to ride at 10/10ths, but it's a bit harsh on longer rides, but only just a bit.

Good Luck,

Antonio

[justinf]

I think the stiffness of the Marcelo and the other race Pegs is overstated here a bit. Sure they are stiff, but I would never describe the Marcelo as harsh. I would and have taken mine on centuries and rides with rougher roads with no problems. It's not going to beat you mercilessly, but it is made for speed. I think for the OP's intended use I would go Marcelo or Responsorium.

[sjbraun]

My Marcelo is not in anyway harsh, in fact (err in my opinion,) it is the smoothest bike I've ever ridden. It is orders of magnitude more comfortable than the bike it replaced, a Reynolds 753 Waterford.
The rest of what other commentors claimed is true for me: it handles like a dream, it descends confidently (it is not twitchy like the Waterford was,) it climbs better than I do- (it accelerates more like an AL bike, yet with the bounce of a nice steel frame.)

Dario claims a Duende would be more comfortable than a Marcelo, for the life of me I can't imagine needing more comfort from a frame, but if that's what he says, its probably true.

I think you'd be hard pressed to regret owning any Pegoretti, that said, I really like my Marcelo. After two years, I still am amazed by how much I like the bike.

Steve-who has to get dressed and ride
Tucson, where its a balmy 32 degrees and sunny

[vaxn8r]

Kirk007 just purchased, and is building up a new Marcelo. Might want to talk to him in a few weeks.

The tubeset is pretty trick. The HT is massive (though it was a 62). The strays are massive as well. The welds are only fair, if that matters. The cool paint are really decals. Still, I'd want one just because of the tubeset.

[1centaur]

The cool paint are really decals.

Really? Had not heard that, I guess. What here is a decal?

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road-bikes/frame/2008-pegoretti-marcelo-47.html

[dsb]

I think my Marcelo rides great... It's stiff, responsive, climbs well, and I've taken it on century rides without any ill effects... But I'm considerably heavier than you, and I ride on old school 32/36h wheels w/ box section tubular rims. I might not feel the same if I had low spoke count deep sectioned clinchers on it...

Since you are having to wait on it, perhaps Dario would build it with the smaller Responsorium diameter chain stays? I don't know if it's possible, but it couldn't hurt to ask...

Dave

[Waldo]

I've owned both, riding the Marcelo quite a bit more, including a double century. Marcelo was a MUCH better descender, but it was also too much bike for me -- or I was not a man enough for it. Duende didn't really "speak" to me. Now, having sold both some time ago, I've happily come to the following conclusion: Order a Kirk. :banana:

[davyt]

Can you share any info on the Pegoretti wait list? Wait time? Do you work through the US distributor, or directly with Dario? How / where did you get measured?
I had seen a Duende in Matt Barkley's shop in Palo Alto and was getting ready to accept his offer of a test ride when I mentioned this to the owner of my LBS (http://www.bikestationaptos.com/). She said, "Hey, I can get you a Peg!" and we were off to the races, figuratively speaking. I mentioned reading that a Forumite had gotten measured by Dario at Interbike so she made arrangements with Nick at Gita to meet in Vegas. Once there, we met Dario and Nick and Giorgio (Andretta, founder of Gita) and hung out at the booth, talking about the stuff that bike nuts talk about: food, music and wine. Oh, yeah, and bikes.

I got measured which was, in itself, worth the trip: Dario yanked on my waistband hard enough to lift my heels off the floor and then I got a laptop shoved up into my crotch for the PBH measurement. He felt around for protrusions on various bones, the tape measure went here and there, some questions were asked and answered, et voila, you're done!

Due to some extenuating circumstances (http://www.gitabike.com/media/dario.jpg), it took one year, five weeks and five days for my bike to arrive once the deposit was placed. This bike (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=36989) was utterly and unconditionally worth the wait!
--
Davy

[Kirk007]

on the Perche No? paint scheme the vargas girls are decals.

As the new owner of a Marcelo, I'm firmly in a get a Marcelo camp. (although its still a week or two from the first ride). But then I've got a couple of Kirks to ride all day and all night and all day again, so....

Greg

[MadRocketSci]

opinions of the marcelo, fina, and 8:30am on this forum can be categorized by size:

small (52cm or so) - old cannondale-like, harsh
medium (~55cm) - rocket ship, stiff ride, un-f'n believable race bike, not plush or comfy
large (57+) - rocket ship, stiff, yet surprisingly comfortable and even somewhat steel-like

Sounds like from the gitabikes website the tube diameters are constant throughout the sizes. From structural theory stiffness in closed section cantilevered tubes vary with the cube of length and linearly with mass, so there can conceivably be a very significant difference in feel between the sizes assuming constant diameter tubes. So, size matters for stock pegs. ymmv.

[Grant McLean]

Sounds like from the gitabikes website the tube diameters are constant throughout the sizes. From structural theory stiffness in closed section cantilevered tubes vary with the cube of length and linearly with mass, so there can conceivably be a very significant difference in feel between the sizes assuming constant diameter tubes. So, size matters for stock pegs. ymmv.

It's not so much the size of the frame, but the fact that
larger bikes are often ridden by heavier riders.

The heavier the rider, the smoother the ride...

ymmv.

-g

[MadRocketSci]

It's not so much the size of the frame, but the fact that
larger bikes are often ridden by heavier riders.

The heavier the rider, the smoother the ride...



perhaps. I'd guess that weight and size have similar effect, as a 190 lb person who rides a 58cm bike would weigh 35% more than a 140 lb rider on a 52, and from the theory a 52 cm tube will be ~40% stiffer (in bending) than a 58 cm tube. Same order of magnitude effects. Not very scientific basing a entire bike's ride characteristic on a single tube, so in practice, i'd be interested in hearing the opinion of a 180 lb person who rides a 52 peg.

[SoCalSteve]

It's not so much the size of the frame, but the fact that
larger bikes are often ridden by heavier riders.

The heavier the rider, the smoother the ride...
ymmv.

-g

I'll bite...Yeah, I have a 61 cm stock Marcello (2007) and its very smooth...(I weigh 250ish).

And yes, the Vargas girls are decals. But, its such a cool paint scheme, doesnt really matter much.

[jeffg]

I have a Marcelo and a Love#3 and I consider the Marcelo very stiff but more than comfortable enough, though I think the Love#3 is a bit more comfortable even with slightly shorter stays. FWIW, the Love#3 is team Nerac geo and the Marcelo is custom.

Both bikes were built by Dario to be race bikes -- nuff said

As for aesthetics, the welds (and paint) on my Marcelo are top notch imho ... but the ride is better yet

I think this discussion is somewhat like the talk about Serotta Legends -- some people find them too stiff, I have a custom and I love it -- ymmv

[bigbill]

I have two Pegoretti bikes. The Fina is a good bike, smooth for aluminum, good head and seat tube angles for my long femurs and riding style. The BLE (thanks again SoCal) is a better bike overall. The best feature of the BLE is how it has improved my descending ability. The steel frame is stiff with just enough spring to allow me to confidently hold a line through tight corners. I also feel better at the end of a five hour ride compared to the Fina.

As far as comfort, they are both race bikes. I have never exited a corner in a crit and thought about how comfortable my bike was. If I want the bike to be more comfortable, I use my wheelset with 25mm tires at 110#.

[rickygarni]

I have a Marcelo and a Love#3 and I consider the Marcelo very stiff but more than comfortable enough, though I think the Love#3 is a bit more comfortable even with slightly shorter stays. FWIW, the Love#3 is team Nerac geo and the Marcelo is custom.

Both bikes were built by Dario to be race bikes -- nuff said

As for aesthetics, the welds (and paint) on my Marcelo are top notch imho ... but the ride is better yet

I think this discussion is somewhat like the talk about Serotta Legends -- some people find them too stiff, I have a custom and I love it -- ymmv

Jeff,

This is interesting. I never thought that the Love #3 might be actually more comfortable than the Marcelo. Do other riders of both agree with this? I finally gave up my Fina this year and as much as I adore Pegoretti steel I find myself eyeing the Love for a change of feel, Oh God, that sounds terrible. Meant in all innocence, though.

Ricky

[sailorboy]

Lots of good feedback here, thanks everyone. I think the rider weight and maybe to a lesser degree, the small frame size arguements have a lot to them. I imagine being toward the lighter end of the spectrum of most of his customers (conjecture) that I might find the stiffer bike to be less attractive, especially if not racing much. So I'm leaning toward the duende. Oh yea, and I almost forgot to mention that I might get a shot at a NOS CCKMP in the same size, so that would take care of the rocket-ship frame requirement. As someone else mentioned, settle the arguement by getting both!!

If that happens, there will be more clearance sales to come...hint: bridgestone and fat chance yo eddy. stay tuned

[rickygarni]

Sailor,

I went through the thoughts of having a Duende as well, even as a Marcelo owner. I think, though, if you have a Duende without a Marcelo, and continue to hear how the M. is a 'rocket' and all of that it might make you itchy for one after a little while.

I have had the Marcelo for five years. I rarely ride over two hours although I have done centuries on it (needless to say, in more than two hours.) Even though I had more 'comfortable' bikes, I have chosen the Marcelo for longer rides. I should mention that I don't ride competitively and I have thought that any discomfort I have experienced after rides longer than 40 miles has been attributable more to my conditioning than my bicycle.

I would still like to have a Duende. If it is more 'forgiving' than a Marcelo, though, I think I would probably opt for the XC options, possibly even 32 cc tires and go for the gold with that, in order to draw a greater distinction between the two bikes. Also, I would say 'What the Hell' and spend the extra 300 clams (Italian for 'dollars') and get a custom paint job – there are so many cool ones that you rarely see – still haven't seen the 'Gatti' or 'O'Kee' in real time before (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PEGORETTI_CUSTOM_FRAMESET_INFO) although I can't imagine never having the Marcelo 'Why Not' either...

So, as a lame body enthusiast, I can safely say the Marcelo is not 'too much of a bike' for anyone who loves to ride. I suspect that the more you ride, the better you like it, and more you have one, the more you will ride!

Ricky

[sailorboy]

I've happily come to the following conclusion: Order a Kirk. :banana:[/QUOTE]
Way ahead of ya on that one...Kirk already on order

[davids]

...I never thought that the Love #3 might be actually more comfortable than the Marcelo. Do other riders of both agree with this?
I've heard this more than once. I've never ridden a Marcelo, but I'd characterize my 51cm Love #3 as smooth and solid. I'd rather ride my Nove on a century, but I can imagine riding the Love that distance.

I'll echo a number of other folks here. If it was going to be my only bike, I'd rank them Responsorium > Duende > Marcelo. If cost were an issue, then I'd happily get the Duende. Painted with the "Manovela" or "Somebody" scheme, I think...

[davyt]

OT, but about the single best place to see the various paint schemes is in the 2008 Pegoretti catalog. You can request a copy from Gita (http://www.gitabike.com/) (follow the "Catalogs" link on their home page) or, better yet, download a .pdf copy. If you do the latter, go to pages 18 and 19 and view at about 800%...

[PK9]

rickygarni wrote:
> This is interesting. I never thought that the Love #3 might be actually
> more comfortable than the Marcelo. Do other riders of both agree with
> this? I finally gave up my Fina this year and as much as I adore Pegoretti
> steel I find myself eyeing the Love for a change of feel, Oh God, that
> sounds terrible. Meant in all innocence, though.

I have a custom Marcelo and a stock Love and, FWIW, I find the Marcelo to be a bit more comfortable. Though I don't find either of them uncomfortable.

In my experience, the Love has an uncanny way of keeping the rear wheel firmly on the ground (kind of similar to the way a full-suspension mountain bike does). It's not harsh but is _very_ direct and efficient with feedback from the road.

I think the Marcelo, OTOH, absorbs a bit more of the vibration from the pavement. This could be because I'm more streched out on the Marcelo and it fits me much better. Between the two, I have a preference for the Marcelo, but it has a fair amount to do with the fit and balance.

I've ridden both on very long rides and have never felt abused on either. (I'm 6'2" and 168 lbs. and I buy into the size vs. comfort line of reasoning.)

Anyway, I think they're both a LOT of fun to ride but are distinctly different in personality. And, if you're looking for something a bit different, the Love will give it to you.