Help me understand credit card fraud.

[flux]

1. Customer buys very expensive set of wheels.

2. After all invoicing, payment transactions, shipping, receiving (this part by USPS in Florida), it is spotted by USPS that this is most likely fraud as the package was ordered to be re-directed to Indonesia.

3. USPS contacts me. I go into my records. Sure enough there is no mention of the billing address to be in Indonesia.

4. It is concluded this is fraud.

5. The wheels are now being sent back to me (on my own dime fyi).

Question.

1. Am I now responsible for the $2600 (cost of wheels) to Mastercard or do I never hear from anyone and am left with a sweet pair of wheels that Mastercard payed for?

Thank You,
Justin

[girlie]

I believe the companies loose in this situation.
i.e. I think you eat it :( Have to resell the wheels and be happy they made it back to you....not sure about this though it is what I heard recently.

[stevep]

wait and see what happens.

you are lucky to get the stuff back.
the cc companies can/ will charge your account back eventually so dont spend the money yet.

[Dave B]

man that sucks big time.

Maybe someone here wants to pick them up from you?

[Blue Jays]

If you didn't order wheels, you shouldn't expect to receive those wheels. You also should refuse to pay for them if you are not the customer who ordered them.

[flux]

If you didn't order wheels, you shouldn't expect to receive those wheels. You also should refuse to pay for them if you are not the customer who ordered them.

Is that possible? Can I say "no" to Mastercard?

[Blue Jays]

If I didn't order an expensive wristwatch, yet some diamond-encrusted Patek Philippe arrives on my doorstep...I'm certainly not going to keep it. And I'm certainly not going to pay for it, either.
Did you order a new wheelset when this situation arose?

[flux]

If I didn't order an expensive wristwatch, yet some diamond-encrusted Patek Philippe arrives on my doorstep...I'm certainly not going to keep it. And I'm certainly not going to pay for it, either.
Did you order a new wheelset when this situation arose?

I am (represent) the company whom these were ordered from... I own the company... process all the orders.

[Blue Jays]

Ahhh, got what you're saying now! I thought you were the cardholder, not an agent of the vendor. Much clearer now, thank you.

[stevep]

Is that possible? Can I say "no" to Mastercard?

the truth lies in yr cc agreement.
dont try to read it.

you will get a chargeback ( the money will be deleted from yr account ) when the whole thing goes through... might take awhile so dont be surprised.

i thk that is what you will find...too bad..but at least you didnt lose the wheels too.

[shinomaster]

the truth lies in yr cc agreement.
dont try to read it.

you will get a chargeback ( the money will be deleted from yr account ) when the whole thing goes through... might take awhile so dont be surprised.

i thk that is what you will find...too bad..but at least you didnt lose the wheels too.


I agree with Steve. If we (at work) get bad card info it's our fault and we eat it. You really need to check the billing address info etc. when you sell something over the phone or online.
You are really lucky to get the wheels back.

[flux]

I agree with Steve. If we (at work) get bad card info it's our fault and we eat it. You really need to check the billing address info etc. when you sell something over the phone or online.
You are really lucky to get the wheels back.

How would I check? Both shipping and billing address were on the invoice and checked out through Paypal. There was nothing out of the ordinary.

Only after USPS noticed the package was being forwarded to Indonesia did a red flag pop up.

[shinomaster]

Hmmm..we don't accept paypal. I'm not sure how they verify things. Maybe you can take it up with them? If their security measures are faulty?

[Blastinbob]

I have "address verification" programed into my credit card processing machine for internet and phone orders. I must put in the street number and zip code for approvals. It will sometimes still approve it without a match but it always tells me if they do match and I can then void the transaction if they don't without any cost to me.
If it was a stolen credit card, or not, it could take a month or two before mastercard takes the money back from your account, so don't spend it too quickly.

[CNY rider]

If you keep the wheels...

and don't get charged for them.....

then yes there is credit card fraud going on.

But as opposed to the Indonesian, they know your address......

[DarrenCT]

hmmm.....

stevep pm'ed me yesterday about buying new Hyperon's for like $250

maybe something is up???

[jerk]

you'll get a charge back. if it smells fishy.....suffice it to say that a phone conversation with the card holder is usually the only way to roll....

[stevep]

hmmm.....

stevep pm'ed me yesterday about buying new Hyperon's for like $250

maybe something is up???

i sold the hyperions to roman meal for $300 worth of chimay ( i didnt know it was so expensive... 1 bottle cost $300? how do you get drunk in belgium at those prices )
but
i also have a new sachs frame for $200...yr size.
just send me the cash and you'll get a surprise.

send to stevep
po box urasap
hong kong, kentucky
00001

[DarrenCT]

i sold the hyperions to roman meal for $300 worth of chimay ( i didnt know it was so expensive... 1 bottle cost $300? how do you get drunk in belgium at those prices )
but
i also have a new sachs frame for $200...yr size.
just send me the cash and you'll get a surprise.

send to stevep
po box urasap
hong kong, kentucky
00001

my size?


sweet.

how did u now i run a 59 st and 48 tt w/ a 3cm extension?

[e-RICHIE]

i sold the hyperions to roman meal for $300 worth of chimay ( i didnt know it was so expensive... 1 bottle cost $300? how do you get drunk in belgium at those prices )
but
i also have a new sachs frame for $200...yr size.
just send me the cash and you'll get a surprise.

send to stevep
po box urasap
hong kong, kentucky
00001

Puccipedia 3:18 atmo -

[stevep]

my size?


sweet.

how did u now i run a 59 st and 48 tt w/ a 3cm extension?

yeah,
close enough
its a 63 w/ a 44 tt.
i have a 250 stem... it'll be ok...

[DarrenCT]

yeah,
close enough
its a 63 w/ a 44 tt.
i have a 250 stem... it'll be ok...

dood

total aero

cat 1 here we come

[steve575]

This has happened to us at work, construction equipment parts, not Hyperons. The crook oreders parts on a stolen account number. Has the parts sent to real card holder's address so everything checks out. Changes shipping at last minute. The credit card company will eventually take care of the real card holder and screw you. At least you got the wheels back. That usually doesn't happen.

[Redturbo]

This has happened to us at work, construction equipment parts, not Hyperons. The crook oreders parts on a stolen account number. Has the parts sent to real card holder's address so everything checks out. Changes shipping at last minute. The credit card company will eventually take care of the real card holder and screw you. At least you got the wheels back. That usually doesn't happen.

+1
You are very lucky if you get the wheels back. When the pros target you they usually win. ;)

[shinomaster]

dood

total aero

cat 1 here we come


Pucci sends good surprises! :beer:

[flux]

+1
You are very lucky if you get the wheels back. When the pros target you they usually win. ;)

Lesson learned. These guys got me this time but it won't happen again.

[Avispa]

i sold the hyperions to roman meal for $300 worth of chimay ( i didnt know it was so expensive... 1 bottle cost $300? how do you get drunk in belgium at those prices )

I think RM put them on eBay for One Grand, shipped... But he gave a Nigerian address to send the payment to.

Lucky me, I used Swoop's Credit Card and got a great deal! Wheels AND the money!!! :D :D Ain't life Grand?!!!

..A..

PS
Is there any warranty available for these wheels? Would Grant's shop in Toronto honor it? Double :D :D

[pedalcr8z]

Hey Flux......I've been in retail for 35 years. ONLY the shipper can re-direct a shipment, NOT the recipient. If you are indeed getting the wheels back count you blessings and plan on a chargeback. As far as you checking addresses, you sure as hell don't use PayPal for that verification, you contact the issuing bank of the clients card. However the MOST important thing to consider when taking a charge card for payment IF THE CLIENT IS NOT PHYSICALLY IN YOUR STORE WITH BOTH CHARGE CARD AND ID......you as a merchant have ABSOLUTELY NO PROTECTION FROM A CHARGEBACK if the card is bogus or stolen, period case closed!

[Grant McLean]

Is there any warranty available for these wheels? Would Grant's shop in Toronto honor it? Double :D :D

Sure, why not... Our store manager took back a toaster.
The lady swore she bought it from us, and who's he to call her a liar?
An then there was the guy returning a gap sweater that he said he bought
from us. There's a darn good reason i'm not on the sales floor anymore,
they keep me upstairs in the office :D


:banana: :banana:

-g

[Ahneida Ride]

Just be aware that the CC company charges the merchant 2-5% of the
purchase price for the "privilege" of using the card.

Hence you are paying a 2-5% tax/up-charge evey time you use the card.
The merchant just burrows the CC charge in it's price.

Cash (frns) are not identical to credit. If you pay in frns, be sure to ask for a frn discount. frn = fed reserve note.

I love it when they offer you 1% back. They take 2-5% up front and give
us back 1% and we thank then for it !!!!!

Now that is better then cold fusion. Instant arbitrage opportunity.

Always request a frn discount if you purchase a Serotta in frns or
in a check for frns. ;)

[flux]

ONLY the shipper can re-direct a shipment, NOT the recipient.

Then how did this thief order the wheels to be send to Indonasia when they touched ground in Florida?

[Ozz]

How would I check? Both shipping and billing address were on the invoice and checked out through Paypal. There was nothing out of the ordinary.....
Talk to your credit card processor (it's called "Merchant Sevices" at my bank) and ask them to review how you handle credit card transactions. They want to avoid fraud as much as you do.

Getting more info from the customer (phone / billing address / code on back of card / etc) not only reduces fraud but also gives you better pricing on the transactions you do process.

If your Merchant Services provider is not helpful...find a new one.

I'd also be wary of using PayPal...one of my customers is having headaches with Google Checkout (which is similar to PayPal, AFAIK).

As mentioned previously, a phone conversation on high ticket items might be worthwhile....

[johnyblue]

1. Customer buys very expensive set of wheels.

2. After all invoicing, payment transactions, shipping, receiving (this part by USPS in Florida), it is spotted by USPS that this is most likely fraud as the package was ordered to be re-directed to Indonesia.

3. USPS contacts me. I go into my records. Sure enough there is no mention of the billing address to be in Indonesia.

4. It is concluded this is fraud.

5. The wheels are now being sent back to me (on my own dime fyi).

Question.

1. Am I now responsible for the $2600 (cost of wheels) to Mastercard or do I never hear from anyone and am left with a sweet pair of wheels that Mastercard payed for?

Thank You,
Justin

Here is a nice and in-depth explanation of credit card fraud (http://www.bustathief.com/2007/08/credit-card-fraud.html)

[marle]

1. Customer buys very expensive set of wheels.

2. After all invoicing, payment transactions, shipping, receiving (this part by USPS in Florida), it is spotted by USPS that this is most likely fraud as the package was ordered to be re-directed to Indonesia.

3. USPS contacts me. I go into my records. Sure enough there is no mention of the billing address to be in Indonesia.

4. It is concluded this is fraud.

5. The wheels are now being sent back to me (on my own dime fyi).

Question.

1. Am I now responsible for the $2600 (cost of wheels) to Mastercard or do I never hear from anyone and am left with a sweet pair of wheels that Mastercard payed for?

Thank You,
Justin

The account holder's issuing bank will want their $2600 back b/c the true account holder will complain. So, don't spend it

[3chordwonder]

Key thing is an anonymous UPS employee saw the attempted redirect and instead of doing the easy thing, took the initiative to call you and save your company a pair of stolen wheels - that's good news, imho. Kudos to the UPS person.

[Redturbo]

flux
pm me if you have any of those 2600.00 lightweights left. :D