Toe clip overlap

[News Man]

I know this has been asked before, but I want to ask in a very specific way. I am typically sized to a 61-62cm frame, with a 59cm TT. I know that toe clip overlap is a non-issue for most riding, especially on a bike set up for going fast. My question is even if its a virtual non-issue, should I insist on a design that avoids it altogether? Would I be compromising anything by spec'ing this in a new frame design?

Thanks

[capybaras]

try smaller shoes

[dbrk]

Given the size of your frame ---it's not as if the top tube is particularly short--- there really shouldn't be any TCO. Design requires a picture of the whole and can't be reduced to any particular feature, such as rake, tt length, ht angle, setback, all of which have to be treated as a piece. I'll get in trouble with folks here if I call it a design flaw except under the most pressed design parameters (like very small frames), but it just doesn't need to be there.

dbrk

[fixednwinter]

Would I be compromising anything by spec'ing this in a new frame design?


If you push the front-centre too far out, yes, you could possibly be compromising the handling. With your frame size & especially if you're not using fenders, you should probably be OK, unless you have a "perfect storm" of extra long crank arms, large shoe size and like your cleats further back (therefore toes are forward of the spindle).

Other possibilities to increase clearance include using smaller wheel sizes - 650B, 650C and 26", but this opens another can of worms in that it will alter the feel considerably, but for your frame size, 700C is probably the best choice.

For a road bike, if you have to sacrifice toe clearance or handling, give up the toe clearance. This is more of an issue for someone like myself, who rides a very small road frame - 51cm, with a top tube no longer than 54cm in most cases.


Having said that, there are two cases where I absolutely must have toe clearance:

1. On my cyclocross frame - lots of slow speed manuevering inevitably means turning the wheel instead of leaning the bike. I also wear warmer, winter SPD boots that are two sizes larger than my road shoes. So a long front centre is required. Usually not a problem on most cross frames, as they have a longer wheelbase than a pure road bike (although I've seen some pretty serious toe overlap on an Empella).

2. A fixed frame for city use - I like to do track stands at stoplights. I'm not as skilled as some of the downtown couriers, so I need to be able to swing the front wheel back & forth to maintain balance, and sometimes one of the crank arms is in the forward position. I had an older fixie where the front fender would overlap my toes. I attempted a track stand, hit the front fender, and down I went.

One final note - if you absolutely must have toe clearance, a careful designer/builder will also balance the rear stays and BB height to match. He or she won't simply increase the front centre by itself.

I just went through this process with Steve Hampsten, on two frames he designed for me. The first, a freewheel Strada Bianca with fenders, we decided on a bit of toe overlap in order not to compromise the road handling.
The second, a fixed machine, we went for the toe clearance and lived with the resulting handling, due to my needs for fixed as above.

If you work with a meticulous and careful builder like Steve, you'll be able to achieve the best combination of handling and reasonable clearance.

[capybaras]

or trim toenails regularly. If you can't reach them ask a friend for help

[e-RICHIE]

I know this has been asked before, but I want to ask in a very specific way. I am typically sized to a 61-62cm frame, with a 59cm TT. I know that toe clip overlap is a non-issue for most riding, especially on a bike set up for going fast. My question is even if its a virtual non-issue, should I insist on a design that avoids it altogether? Would I be compromising anything by spec'ing this in a new frame design?
Thanks
douglas is right atmo -
Given the size of your frame ---it's not as if the top tube is particularly short--- there really shouldn't be any TCO.
i can't imagine a design that will have such
short a front center in your frame size that
any of this will matter atmo.

[KeithS]

Air your concerns, make sure you're heard, but understand they usually know what works and what doesn't. I have been in sales for many years and I learned early on that customers really want me to:

"Give me what I want, not what I asked for".

[Fixed]

ride a mt bike
imho cheers



don't worry about it on a road bike if you want a responsive bike imho

you have two cats who said what is .. one being the watch maker ... listen
anytime you get e-richie to say something imho

[News Man]

Great answers from knowledgeable folks like always.

Thanks.

[capybaras]

Great answers from knowledgeable folks like always.

Thanks.

Thank you.

[mister]

on that large of a frame you don't have much to worry about.
TCO is something you get used to anyways.

[93LegendTG]

I always assumed that a frame with a 58 -59 TT would never have TCO. I was suprised, however, after buying a NOS 60 cm Waterford 1100 for a foul weather trainer that I did have TCO, (58 TT, 74 degree HT w/ 4.0 fork rake). Its a wonderful ride, but I'd never get another bike with that steep a head angle, just to avoid the TCO issue.

[Blue Jays]

If the optimal design calls for a bit of overlap, don't sweat it. At normal riding speeds, approximately 99.99% of enthusiasts will ever notice overlap. It typically becomes problematic only at very slow speeds.

[Peter P.]

At the size frame you're riding, it's a non-issue. It's great that e-Richie chimed in as you can't get more affirmation than from him. However, feel free to express your concerns to the builder; a good builder will answer your questions politely, completely, and/or offer alternatives.

[capybaras]

on that large of a frame you don't have much to worry about.
TCO is something you get used to anyways.

the only time it is a problem is when you are trying to make a left hand turn from a stop sign. then you might fall over in the middle of an intersection if your right foot hits the turned front wheel. try to remember to start out straight before you turn