fixed or float?

[Climb01742]

just curious...how many of you ride pedals with float? if so, what degree of float? and how many ride fixed cleats?

when i had more biomechanical problems, float was a godsend. but now that i'm slowly fixing them, my feet seem to be floating less and less...to the point where any movement is now kinda bugging me.

i wish lance pedals had adjustable float like looks. but with shimano, it's the cleat you need to change, over to the red cleat.

i know a fixed cleat could create injuries, but if you really have your shoe/cleat position dialed, fixed could transfer more power, yes? especially out of the saddle?

[dave thompson]

....... if so, shoe/cleat position dialed, fixed could transfer more power, yes? especially out of the saddle?
No, I don't believe that a fixed pedal/cleate interface would transfer more power. I would say the reverse would be more likely to be true, i.e. less power. No one has perfect bio-mechanical linkage between the hips and feet, therefore some rotational movement (float) would be desireable. If your feet couldn't rotate to compensate, you would have, the scientifice term, a hitch in your get-along.

Some riders need a fixed small amount of float, while others (like me) want/need more float, and that's why I like my Speedplays.

[bcm119]

I'd agree with Dave, I don't think a restriction in float would add any power. All the power comes from pushing forward and down; any side to side rotation is just due to biomechanics of the hip/knee/ankle. Further, I think the idea that clipless pedals give you more power is overhyped. I think they give you better control and safety out of the saddle, but the notion that you can "pull up" on the pedals is a bit of a myth. You lighten the load on the upstroke, but legs just aren't designed to pull up in a seated position. The best you can do is minimize the counterweight to the other leg's downstroke.

[Ozz]

As stated previously, no one is bio-mechanically perfect. If you have fixed cleats, the rotation has to be taken up somewhere - typically in the joints and ligaments of your knee, ankle, foot and hip. Having some float eases the strain on these joints. I imagine that the closer you are to "perfect", the less float you need to avoid injury.

[NateM]

Climbo,
I think that fixed cleats will yield more power if you can use them without injury. If your foot is stable throughout the stroke as well as your knees,more power will go directly to the wheel. With the fixed cleat I was having left knee pain.My problem is that my knee feels retricted on the downstroke,most notably when standing. My foot wants to (point)rotate out a little.I switched to using the yellow cleat with 6 degrees of float on my left and kept the fixed on the right. I feel the difference between the two but it doesnt make much difference in my speed. These days its all about comfort.

[Kevan]

I've worked hard to convince Sandy that I am in fact...

bio-mechanically perfect. :D

If I might clarify, float "shouldn't" impact power, but in fact I think it sometimes can happen. The situations are pretty rare when this happens and it usually occurs when the rider is in a period of transition, like when going from a seated to standing position, that the rider's heel might slip. Not enough to unclip necessarily, but enough where the rider has to break stride slightly to correct themselves. This isn't a race losing situation. My Bebops have alot of float built into them and occasionally I'll slip. But that's no big deal.

As far as the upward pressure we apply during our pedalling is concerned I think we'd be surprised just how much strain we are actually applying. With the cleat problems I recently had I was amazed at how fast and hard my foot would pop from the pedal on the up-pull during a steep climb. Actually, the problem is a pretty dangerous... :confused:

[BigMac]

I personally do not think their is an absolute answer as to whether float is a good thing or not, its a very individual thing. A case in point is a friend of mine I occasionally ride with who for years drove me nuts if I rode behind him. One of his knees, his right as I recall, would consistently flale outward, especially as he pushed harder. I consistently inquired whether he suffered any pain in said knee or leg, which he always claimed to have none. Finally he began suffering some tendonitis in the knee as well as some hip pain and proceeded with visits to Orthodist. We adjusted his saddle height which made problem less pronounced but did not eliminate the problem or the pain. Finally he was fitted with custom orthodics and the orthopedist (a fellow cyclist) suggest he try fixed cleat pedals. This all worked to eliminate the problem except now the opposite knee began to hurt and had some localized swelling on lateral side of this other knee. The fix? He used fixed cleat pedal (Look) on one side and Speedplay on other. About a year later Speedplay introduced the Zero pedal which he installed on both crankarms and continues to use to this day, riding many more miles than he ever had before with oneside adjusted to zero float, the other side with 10 or more degrees of float...it works for him.

My experience with Speedplay was basically awful, I hated the disconnected feel but I really suffered severe knee pain. My left knee has very little meniscus left, the right a bit more although it has been scoped twice. If I use a pedal with more than 5* float, particularly one as free as Speedplay, my knees swell up, tendonitis insues and it soon looks like a couple of grapefruit sized lumps where my knee joints should be. It is my theory that the free float pedals, particularly the one's with LOTS of float put greater strain on tendons and ligaments to maintain biomechanical alignment. If you are not prone to tendonitis or have no ligament damage, these pedals can be fine but my knees which have undergone the knife or been scope a combined 9 times definately do not like lots of float. I can comfortably ride float free pedals -- I used Campy ProFits w/fixed float cleat for nearly 2 years -- but my preference is the Time Equipe's or Impacts set to maximum tension. FWIW the Impact's are easier entry and float is less noticable than Equipe's, possibly less angle of float as well but I never paid any attention other than both systems agree with my knees.

Pedals, float, etc are much like saddles and shoes; whatever feels right and does not cause injury issues is the right individual choice. Variations in float has as much to do with power transfer as stiffer cranks or BB's; completely meaningless.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Kevin]

I love my Speedplays. Clip in it and forget it. Your body picks the angles that work for you.

Kevin

[dirtdigger88]

BigMac,

I agree 100% people seem to be sold of lots of float or none at all. There seems to be little middle ground. Me? I am a firm believer in Speedplays with full float. I have tried Shimano and Looks they just make my knees hurt. A friend of mine just took my bike out for a ride. He is a big Look fan, he hated my Speedplays- his Looks just killed my knees of glass

Jason

[csb]

fixed
keywin ti
custom foot beds
sidi (neutral last)

[Elefantino]

I rode looks for years. Loved Looks. Would likely still but for two knee surgeries. Switched to Speedplays in 2000. No regrets. Like walking in Looks better, though. And ARC pedals are cheaper!

[Bruce K]

zero float - bum knee and all.

I went to Bill Petersen and got a "pro-fit" and he set up everything, pedals, orthotics, cleats the works.

I have ridden for 2 seasons now pain free with zero float. The difference/improvement between this set up and my Speedplays was noticable immediately.

BK

[BikerGrl]

Agree as a percentage of cyclists, Speedplays seem to be a thumbs down for knees. Surprised Tyler uses them doesn't he? Dr Pruitt in Colorado who does a lot of work with the athletes hates them for the knee ending injuries you guys have previously mentioned. Was A NOT- DEFINITELY a no for my knees and also in the Drs recommendation.

[dirtdigger88]

Agree as a percentage of cyclists, Speedplays seem to be a thumbs down for knees. Surprised Tyler uses them doesn't he? Dr Pruitt in Colorado who does a lot of work with the athletes hates them for the knee ending injuries you guys have previously mentioned. Was A NOT- DEFINITELY a no for my knees and also in the Drs recommendation.

I think you got it all wrong, people with previous knee problem gravitate towards speedplays, the pedals don't cause knee problems

jason

[Dekonick]

Chicker .....egg......chicken.....egg.....

which came first?

Heck - screw it - just make a killer southwestern omlette!

I had the first set of SPD's (mtn bike) and they made my knee's hurt. When they inroduced float, that problem went bye bye...

[Dirtdog]

I had a friend who is a para olympian. Several years ago when going to his first olympic traning camp the very first thing they did was take him off the Speedplays. Not sure exactly why but I remember correctly it was there lack of effiecency. His name, look for him and pull for him, Ron Williams.... he'll be going for gold this year in several track events and the road race.

[Bruce K]

The way Bill explained it to me as I panicked when he said "zero float" was that float does several things.

First it allows for improper saddle position, or height without causing joint/muscle pain, second, it allows for misalignment of knee or ankle joints without joint/muscle pain, third, it allows for improper cleat palcement without joint/muscle pain, fourth, it dissipate energy from your pedal stroke (see high school physics) because if your foot is rotating that is lost energy from the pedal stroke.

He went on to say, and show, that when your saddle is placed in the correct position, both up/down and front/back, and when your cleats are placed correctly front/back, side-to-side, and angled correctly, and if any joint alignment is corrected by orthotics (or could be wedges I guess) then you maximize the power you can put in your pedal stroke by eliminating float.

I'm pretty sure this is something that you couldn't do yourself very easily, but could be done by a really good fitter in a session on your bike. I know it took about 2 hours for me including making the orthotics to correct fairly significant pronation in my ankles.

BK

[Dekonick]

did your orthotics require any wedges or did they ortho's compensate enough?

D2 told me that even with orthotics, a wedge might still be needed.

[Bruce K]

In my case orthotics were sufficient.

You must be REALLY pronated if you are going to need both.

The only way to find out would be to go through all the testing both on the bike and off.

Peterson does laser tracking of knee, ankle, etc. while you pedal and also does computer driven pressure tests of your weight distribution on your feet. He also checks your foot, ankle, & knee alignment as well as your arch height before he determines what you need in your shoe (if anything beyond the stock foot bed), if your cleats need off-set, etc.

It was a fascinating and enlightening process for me and as I said before, the difference was both postivie and noticable.

BK

[scottcw]

Bebop. 20 degrees of float IIRC. I absolutely need that because my heels naturally drift in toward the bike. Fixed pedals make my shins and knees hurt.