Seat Masts

[caleb]

It appears that integrated seat masts are making their way into the custom market.

Who aside from S. White/Vanilla is doing them? (see the Speedvagens (http://www.speedvagen.com/)).

Good idea? Bad idea?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and you know you're keeping the bike forever and a day, then I don't see anything wrong with it. Better make sure you're fitted correctly, though!

BBD

[DarrenCT]

anyone here on board for a road speedvagen??

[swoop]

given that i think he's only making 30 of them... one can only hope...

[DarrenCT]

u missed the memo swoop

im on board. maybe its not too late?

[A.L.Breguet]

They look cool, but will make it tricky to fit the bike into a travel case.

[Sacha White]

Good idea? Bad idea?

Good idea. :beer:

[ergott]

Good idea. :beer:


What about that idea with a lugged bike? Think it's a good idea to have the seat tube go all the way up to the saddle with some sort of adjustment like you have? I think a lugged bike like that would be pretty cool. Can you get seat tubes that long with the proper butting?

[Fixed]

i'm dumb but mast? why ?
just wonderin
cheers :beer:

[ergott]

i'm dumb but mast? why ?
just wonderin
cheers :beer:

It would seem to me that the builder has control over one more tube when he builds the bike.

[Fixed]

i like the idea of a quick seat change from bike to bike just take the post out of one and put it in another takes less than a min. you give that up what do you get in return ..? just askin :beer: cheers

[ergott]

I've never swapped seat/seatpost from bike to bike. I'd go mast if the builder likes it. I don't move the seat around (there is some adjustability). Even if it performs at least as good as regular post, the aesthetics work for me.

[bhungerford]

the seat masts have been around for awhile, Cherry Bikes in W. Lafayette, IN has done them since he started, both in steel and Ti...although i don't remember if he did a lugged one, would be cool i think :beer:

whether it's better or not, who knows, probably just an aesthetic thing

[Jeff N.]

A stupid idea, right up there with integrated headsets. Jeff N.

[ergott]

A stupid idea, right up there with integrated headsets. Jeff N.

That's why there are lots of different bikes out there.

PS your bike is stupid too :beer:

[duke]

Bad Idea.
A solution for a problem that does not exist.
duke

[jerk]

good idea. makes big sloping bikes alot less stupid.

jerk

[stevep]

Bad Idea.
A solution for a problem that does not exist.
duke


no no,
its a good idea
but not for everyone.

[jerk]

no no,
its a good idea
but not for everyone.


huh? you told me they were for everyone. overheard at some nameless shop: "hybrids yeah-translink frames make great hybrids. the seatmast helps make sure mom can't ride dad's bike insuring another sale."

jerk

[swoop]

stevep told me the seatmast makes my a88 look smaller.

[RPS]

Good idea? Bad idea?Any middle ground?
Maybe of little difference?

[Fixed]

good idea. makes big sloping bikes alot less stupid.

jerk
thanks that's what i was looking for
cheers :beer:

[michael white]

I don't know, I can look at it as a structure, and I see the purpose of the seat mast. I mean, if you're riding a bike where all the junctures are as strong and streamlined as possible, but one of the main contact points has this excess metal shoved down into the frame and held in place by a single pinch bolt . . . well, I can see how the seat mast strengthens and streamlines that juncture.

Personally, no, I don't need it, but I can see how it makes sense for a cyclist concerned about such things.

[jeffg]

no no,
its a good idea
but not for everyone.

Yep, I can see the merits of it; however, I travel with all my bikes and all except one have level TTs, so they don't make sense for me ...

[ergott]

Any middle ground?
Maybe of little difference?


This site's not about middle ground. Pick a side already!
:beer:

[michael white]

Yeah, well, I've noticed that some forumites get all twitchy about something as insignificant as an extra 5mm spacer in the headset. For someone like that, I can see the appeal of a system where you lop off a few inches of seatpost and get a (at least theoretically) stronger structure.

To pick for myself, the answer is uh, thanks but HELL no. I will ride my horizontal frames with normal posts, and I'll use as many spacers as I damn well need.

[stevep]

Yeah, well, I've noticed that some forumites get all twitchy about something as insignificant as an extra 5mm spacer in the headset. For someone like that, I can see the appeal of a system where you lop off a few inches of seatpost and get a (at least theoretically) stronger structure.

To pick for myself, the answer is uh, thanks but HELL no. I will ride my horizontal frames with normal posts, and I'll use as many spacers as I damn well need.

good stevep
michael,
there are well constructed intelligent comments on a technical subject.
well explained. totally correct and indisputable.

bad stevep
there's no room for this kind of stuff here...you gotta mix in a little fury to stir the pot...
" anyone who wants one is an idiot..."

like that. otherwise no one will respect you.

call swoop, call swoop, tell him his xl shorts came in...
not to worry they stretch a lot...
make fun of campy a little... always works with these guys
bust on grant... tell him bikes all suuck...

ooops, football game on...gotta go.

[Smiley]

It kills re-sale since now you need to be concerned with head tube ext. plus seat mast height. I keep my bikes but others who do not will have re-sale issues.

[Bill Bove]

It's just one more way for the frame makers to take money out of the parts
makers pockets!

On some bikes it just a matter of looks, and that's cool but on the Time VXRS it really does add performence.

Smiley, doesn't buying a custom sized bike also diminish resalability due to thesmaller number of potential customers who will fit your own dimensions?

[stevep]

It kills re-sale since now you need to be concerned with head tube ext. plus seat mast height. I keep my bikes but others who do not will have re-sale issues.

the reality is it has very little effect on resale.
the saddle can be adjusted ( on the time anyway ) 3cm up.
that is more than enough to adapt to almost anyone who would fit the size anyway..
3cm up is plenty...could be trimmed down if necessary
not a resale issue really.

a travel issue... not really a resale issue if you really think about it.

[swoop]

whether you get the saddle to where it needs to be because the seat tube is long .. or because you clamp some plumbing in.. isnt a good thing or a bad thing.. its just a thing.

that the industry adapted to the seat tube ending at the top tube is just as arbitrary is it is letting the seat tube go all the way up. it isn't better or worse.. the bike is either well designed or its not. a well designed bike with a seatmast should be just as good as a well designed bike without one.


i this era of dropped top tubes essentially smaller bike frames... its a fairly elegant design choice and there is a conceptual logic behind it (if not real logic). the bike is as much an expression of an aesthetic as it is a functional tool.. that's why we love em.

i don't know why people so need to fit things like this into this is good or this is bad.. it seems wankerish to me. (except things i think are good and bad.. like mirrors and big bottles and .. wait, the list is growing... prefab bikes that don't fit).

[Len J]

whether you get the saddle to where it needs to be because the seat tube is long .. or because you clamp some plumbing in.. isnt a good thing or a bad thing.. its just a thing.

that the industry adapted to the seat tube ending at the top tube is just as arbitrary is it is letting the seat tube go all the way up. it isn't better or worse.. the bike is either well designed or its not. a well designed bike with a seatmast should be just as good as a well designed bike without one.


i this era of dropped top tubes essentially smaller bike frames... its a fairly elegant design choice and there is a conceptual logic behind it (if not real logic). the bike is as much an expression of an aesthetic as it is a functional tool.. that's why we love em.

i don't know why people so need to fit things like this into this is good or this is bad.. it seems wankerish to me.

wankerish?

is that a technical term?...copyrighted?...psycobabble?

Len

[swoop]

wankerish?

is that a technical term?...copyrighted?...psycobabble?

Len

its an early derivation of the irish jewish self talk i give myself so that i know the world i've constructed is somehow the right world... it justifies the nails in my hands and the cool breeze i get up here on this cross.

:P

you know... i have an opinion therefore i exist atmo.

[Len J]

its an early derivation of the irish jewish self talk i give myself so that i know the world i've constructed is somehow the right world... it justifies the nails in my hands and the cool breeze i get up here on this cross.

:P

you know... i have an opinion therefore i exist atmo.


LOL......

I like the word.

Len

[14max]

*

[A.L.Breguet]

LOL......

I like the word.

Len
I prefer wankeresque.

[swoop]

wanktacular?

on the level of aesthetics.... the speedvagens with the seatmast... make me feel porn feelings in that part of my brain that thinks bikes are sexy.

[Climb01742]

wank-a-tude: a noun and an adjective.

[swoop]

wankenstien.
a wanker from the cabal?

[Climb01742]

wankster. a wanker who plays tricks.

[cs124]

in polite company i prefer to use the term "owner-operator"

:D

[davids]

you know... i have an opinion therefore i exist atmo.
Epigram for a Forum

[J.Greene]

It would seem to me that the builder has control over one more tube when he builds the bike.

Or...... has one more highly stressed tube that can fail? Just askin'

JG

[cpg]

What's new is old and what's old is new. Was done in the 30's. Go look. It's a look. Not my look but it's a look.

Curt

[93legendti]

2 thoughts:
Seems a like another part that may break/bend/dent in a crash that would be much more of a pita to repair as opposed to replacing a seatpost.

Seems like it would make it much harder to safely pack the bike in a travel case.

[swoop]

2 thoughts:
Seems a like another part that may break/bend/dent in a crash that would be much more of a pita to repair as opposed to replacing a seatpost.

Seems like it would make it much harder to safely pack the bike in a travel case.


its not like we've seen time ulteams with post crash mast issues. if you hit the deck that hard.. lots of areas of the frame may or may not be damaged including steerer tubes and stays.

if you crash any part of any frame may be damaged. should we build frame-less bikes?

[benb]

The only one that I like the looks of is the Vanilla one.

I don't buy any of the benefits other then weight saving... and if it's not a weight weenie carbon bike I think they have no point at all as it's definitely not needed to make the bike hit the UCI limit. If your custom frame is metal it's probably already pretty heavy so what's the point?

I have seen them claim seatmasts create a stronger frame... but I've never heard of a bike breaking at the seatpost/frame junction... if it happens it's pretty darn rare.. I've got a mile and a half of seatpost sticking out on my MTB with no problems... look at one of Ryan Trebon's bikes.. no problem there either. Even the downhill bikes that would be most likely to have this problem... they just make a little extension.. not the entire mast like the road manufacturers are doing. That way they preserve adjustability.

Like a lot of things with road bikes it strikes me as being yet another fashion item to try and get people to replace perfectly good bikes. More power to them.. just easy to see through what they're doing.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Fwiw, I like the seat mast thing.... Frishy was racing on a MTB with a "mast" in the mid 90's.


http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekataloge/PDF/Francesco_Paduano/Francesco_Paduano97.pdf

[zap]

Kirk, that rig looks kool.

Thanks for posting.

[zap]

Road model.

[JohnS]

I remember a big uproar a year or two on this forum about the Serotta headtubes sticking up an inch or two more than the seattube and how ugly it looked. Now many of these same people are going ga-ga over a seat mast that sticks up way farther than the HT. Wait 'til Dbrk gets ahold of this... :no:

[Volant]

its not like we've seen time ulteams with post crash mast issues. if you hit the deck that hard.. lots of areas of the frame may or may not be damaged including steerer tubes and stays.

if you crash any part of any frame may be damaged. should we build frame-less bikes?

"frame-less bikes" -- Figure that one out! Perhaps parts held together by static electricity? You have to spin faster to hold the bike together.

It's like the crazy idea I had when I was a kid that you could 'excite' a product that requires electricity without having to plug it in or have a cord - basically 'excite' it so that it would generate it's own electricity. Well, now they've figured out how to do that (magnetically coupled resonator - only good for short distances - but working on bringing it to market).

Swoop - you're ahead of your time!

[DarrenCT]

imho,

it looks cool on the right bike.

the vanilla speedvagen for example....

that looks very cool

cheers
-d

[Sacha White]

FWIW, I did the integrated seatmast on the Speedvagen because I wanted to get rid of all of excess brake hardware, brazeons etc. in the area, and run the cable straight through the seat tube. I think this is a genuine improvement.

The sexualissimo of the integrated mast was a welcomed side effect of this. :beer:

-Sacha

[brians647]

imho,

it looks cool on the right bike.

the vanilla speedvagen for example....

that looks very cool

cheers
-d

I agree! (big surprise, huh?) :beer:

[Fixed]

nice idea imho looks good on the right bike and v's the right bike
cheers imho merry christmas :beer:

[brians647]

FWIW, I did the integrated seatmast on the Speedvagen because I wanted to get rid of all of excess brake hardware, brazeons etc. in the area, and run the cable straight through the seat tube. I think this is a genuine improvement.

The sexualissimo of the integrated mast was a welcomed side effect of this. :beer:

-Sacha

Sexualissimo... You just added another dimension to my bike! I wonder if that'll get the wife to finally approve...

"Honey, you just need to appreciate the 'sexualissimo' of it all..." :D

[DarrenCT]

I agree! (big surprise, huh?) :beer:

exactly :0

btw, get serotta james to change your lame username

what the hell is 647 anyways? :)

[brians647]

nice idea imho looks good on the right bike and v's the right bike
cheers imho merry christmas :beer:

Yeah, on the Speedvagen cross bike, it doesn't look too thin or obnoxious - it fits the aesthetic.

[brians647]

exactly :0

btw, get serotta james to change your lame username

what the hell is 647 anyways? :)

HA! I hear you. It was my number when I raced motocross (still on the bike). I lack the creativity to come up with a better name. I'll take suggestions though!