Axiom versus Steel Elium

[hooverone]

i wanted to purchase a Serotta but I have no local delears and I have decided I want to stay local. I have tried to go to dealers out of my city but decided I would rather have a local contact sohould any problems arise so now I am looking at Seven and the msrp for a steel elium is 2200 while the axiom is 2600.

While I would enjoy a bike with some carbon dampening, I think there woiuld be longevity and less damage should an accidental crash occur from an all ti frame, any suggestions from the forum?

I have test ridden a ti elium and I enjoyed the ride there is not a axiom in my area to test ride but conisdering I come from a backround of only riding steel frames, with stell forks, I would imagine I would enjoy riding an all ti bike. I have test ridden an Ottrott and it was too stiff for me for whatever thats worth.

[dbrk]

Okay, I'll say the first, obvious, unimportant things...All of these bikes are "tuned" to be more or less compliant and suit the rider's weight, power, and tastes as far as "feel" goes. I have had two Sevens and they could not be more different from one another. I've kept the Odonata, which is a beautiful ride, but mostly because (to be honest) I have too much into it to sell it. I prefer the feel of it to the Axiom I had which was as stiff as any Legend I've owned (and all the Legends I have owned, and that's quite a few, have been stiffer titanium bikes than my Ibis, Moots, or HampstenMoots). (I now have a 60x57.5 polished Legend/August 2000 built for sale but not posted anywhere but in this paratheses, so far.) So I think you would be correct in assuming that the carbon bike will dampen and caress a bit more. Is the Odonata out of the picture for price? Mine feels a lot like Thom Byrnes's Ottrott ST which I've ridden: like quiet titanium.

As for damage, ti dents and carbon usually shreds a bit when you go sliding along the asphalt. Serottafolks will rave on about their crash program, of course, but I have a more Darwinian view of life (less prevention, less extra warranty, body armour, etc.), so my opinion is not to worry about it. Considering the miles and the crashes I've taken, I've ruined _very_ few bikes. Don't buy for future crashes materials-wise or whatever just buy what you really want to ride. Between the two bikes I would get the Axiom and ask for it to be easy on the body. I am skeptical of the "mixed media" bikes advantages over their costs. I am repeated on record here that I think the carbon/ti bikes are not worth the extra cost to the benefits they bring to the ride. If I were looking to save, I would just get the steel Axiom which I think would ride every bit as nice as the steel Elium. Again, I am skeptical of adding carbon into steel just as I am to ti, not because it doesn't effect the ride _some_ but because it's far more costly for not that much gain. Of course, regarding these Sevens this opinion is based on nothing but analogous impressions (and an honest declamation of ignorance regarding direct experience).

dbrk

[Smiley]

Hooverone , Not a problem to buy a Frame and fork from an out of town LBS and have a local LBS purchase parts and build it up. Thats where the service comes into play. I have suppiled a frame and fork for a few out of town clients with this stradegy in mind so they could get warranty on the mechanicals. Good luck and don't let not having a Serotta dealer near you deter your purchase.

[Smiley]

Hooverone , Not a problem to buy a Frame and fork from an out of town LBS and have a local LBS purchase parts and build it up. Thats where the service comes into play. I have suppiled a frame and fork for a few out of town clients with this stradegy in mind so they could get warranty on the mechanicals. Good luck and don't let not having a Serotta dealer near you deter your purchase.

[Climb01742]

smiley, was the second post for emphasis? :p

[Kevin]

Could it be Stuttering Smiley? :beer:

Kevin

[Dekonick]

I bought my frame and fork from texas, and had a non Serotta LBS build it up. Couldnt be more happy!

Serotta's are really worth the $$ IMHO.

[Jeff N.]

Go for the Axiom Ti. Jeff N.

[caffeine power]

As DBRK stated the construction of the Seven will be 'tuned' to your style/needs/desires (without getting kinky) Part of why I bought an Axiom 5 years ago was the level of customization vs $$$. I was able to duplicate my Serotta Phinney but make it have a stiffer rear end and a 73.5 seat angle vs 74. Otherwise I find it hard to justify the expense. I'm not overly fond of the 'mixed media' concept either. I'd prefer the KISS approach to frame construction but nobody wants plain old lugged/SL tubed bikes for everyone. In the end it's your money and your but on the bike. Get what you want and can live with. The only things I find myself wishing I'd done differently 5 years later are a pump peg on the frame and Record Ergo instead of the Mavic Mektronic :crap:

[davids]

I love my Steel Axiom, and I imagine that the Steel Elium could be made as smooth as you'd like - probably smoother than the Ti Elium you tested. It would be heavier, but probably not as you'd notice.

Personally, though, I'd go for the Ti Axiom. As caffiene power said, Seven will tune it any way you'd like. It's simple and elegant, lighter than the Elium, and will outlast all of us. Plus you can ride it in the rain! (My wife's been teasing me about hating to get my Axiom wet...)

There are those here who don't like Seven. I think it's nitpicking in the extreme. I've had nothing but good experiences with them, and I bought my Seven used! In my opinion, they're a great company who make superb bikes. You can't go wrong with either.

Good luck!

[hooverone]

If I am going to have the Seven custom builit is there a optimal stem length that I should try to get and change the tt length accordingly, this is all within reason of coarse.

Would 110 be optimal? I have heard that some ppl think diferent stem lenghts handle differently which suprised me I thought the lenght of the stem was just in relaation to the distance from seat to handlebars and that was it.


Jim

[hooverone]

If I ask for a pump peg and if there is some rise in the frame tt due to getting bars up so say 4 degree rise, would the pump need to be longer and not fit on the frame as well becuase the pump would not be on a straight tt bike but on a bike with a say 4 degree rise for example?

Would I also need them to put a peg on the other end so it has something to hook into on both sides?


Jim

[dbrk]

There is not one bike company that doesn't tout itself as the best, the greatest this or that, no one is exempt, we live in a world of hyperbole and enthusiasm (in that old sense of the word). The best we can do, of course, is relate our experiences. I too would say that I have had excellent service and relationships with Seven, every bit as positive as my interactions with Serotta, Waterford, etc. Even when I have had a mild rub (let's not go there), it has worked out because with small companies you are dealing with are just a few folks. My "complaint" with "dealer only seller" companies, like Seven and Serotta, is that there is no provision for folks like me who don't want or need the help of an LBS. I go to the LBS for different reasons but not to buy frames. Because I have had to go to a dealer I have actually not bought a bike and this includes Serotta. If Serotta and Seven had provision for direct sales with real rules and criteria (such as, you know the precise size you want, you sign off on being responsible for the result you requested, etc), I think I would be less put off. Others can be happy with their dealer but this either-you-are-a-dealer-only company or direct-sales-company is terrible solution, imo. Rivendell gets this right, as I see it: they have an either/or view of things.

This is a bit off-thread but every time someone asks about buying a bike we are put between dealers and builders. I admit that I may be the rare bird who wants nothing to do with the dealers but it does stifle sales. For example again, I have a Serotta that I may want to repaint, but there we go again and I've got this rigamarole with the dealer. So it goes.
Suits some, not me.

dbrk

[mso]

I sold my Legend Ti and replaced it with a Seven Axiom Ti and never have I regretted it. Both are beautiful bikes of excellent quality and craftsmanship, however, I do find the ride of my Seven to be a little stiffer and I prefer its quick acceleration on the flats. Overall the Seven is just a better fit for me, its a lighter frame and the Axiom and I love to climb. It's :) a pleasure to ride and isn't that what it's all about!

Pump Peg - I have an actual 47CM ST with a 52TT w/pump peg and can use a Small Zefal frame pump. You only need the one pump peg on the HT, the spring action of the pump in conjuction with a velcro strap will keep the pump in place.

[Jeff N.]

I've always thought a 120mm stem is the middle road "optimum" length to shoot for. With SEVEN, you should opt for the pump peg, AND chain hanger (an option Serotta doesn't even offer with the Legend for some reason...not a big thing, for sure, but nice to have it and not need it, than to want it and not have it, know what I mean?). No extra charge for either. Jeff N.

[Jeff N.]

I think SEVEN allows for better factory direct communication than Serotta does...if you are the type who prefers to leave the LBS out of the loop in some aspects of the build process. In fact, theres a local bike shop nearby where I live that dropped SEVEN because of this. They apparently insisted on being the go-between throughout the entire process. I've always thought that there are just some things that the LBS just doesn't understand about a customers needs/wants that the company WILL understand. And it gives the customer peace of mind to know that they've talked directly with the manufacturer and that there won't be any misunderstandings brought on by the middle man (LBS). It HAS happened to be. Big time. Jeff N.

[RichMc]

Nice to see that Serotta allows some discussion about it's competitors here. I got a Seven Axiom Ti late last spring and couldn't be happier. Went with Seven because there was no local dealer for Serotta and because of waiting over five months for a Colnago CT2 (with no end in sight). The bike rides great & the factory did a good job with the fit (along with my local shop). In fact the fit is so good I'm going to have to part with my old backup trainer as it's too uncomfortable to ride. Now I'm stuck trying to decide between an Axiom steel and a Serotta C3, which I will have to travel to an out of state shop for a fit. Damn. Decisions, decisions. The Axiom works so well that it made me a serious believer in fitting. I don't think you could go wrong with either manufacturer.

[Jeff N.]

My Axiom Steel is a magnificent frame. Superb ride and build quality. You just couldn't go wrong with one. Jeff N.