cross questions for the unknowing

[Dave B]

I need help with some questions on cross.

1. Do cross bikes have a different (even if it is subtle) geo then a traditional road bike? Are you still in a road racing position or more up right almost in between road and mtb?

2. the brakes set up is for mud clearance..I get that, but is the use of disc brakes not allowed and for what reason. I seem in my mini research to find cross bikes set up with discs. With the conditions often in such sloppy conditions, discs make sense. Is it a weight issue or UCI nonsense?

3. People argue tubular and clincher here often, why does the tubular make more sense...pinch flats?

4. Are there cross specific magazines to learn and keep up with the goings on? What are they?

5. I have only seen pictures of race courses, but the courses are not true single track mtb courses right? Do there tend to be rocks, roots, drop offs?

6. Would a mtb v-brake offer a better stopping option then currently used? Why/Why not

7. I have read, but never tested carbon wheels and how braking is affected with carbon wheels. I hear and read all the time that wet carbon is a nightmare to stop. Why then do people use carbon wheels with the race conditions can be downright nasty...which by the way is freaking sweet! Do the brakes and pads offer stronger grab them road brakes?

8. Do racers ever use mtbs? especially 29er mtbs.

Thanks in advance, I am trying to learn as much as possible simply as I have a huge desire to learn more about it. It looks like a blast.

[e-RICHIE]

it's only cross if you are racing. and yes, the position
is event-specific. it's all about being comfortable and
efficient in the coffin atmo. if you are not racing, a road
bicycle position with cross tires is prolly the best deal
for toodling around on a cross course. but unless there
is a finish line and a prize list, what is used to race with
might be wrong for you. it's all atmo.

snow here.

[djg]

I'll let e-R tell ya about position and geo -- I can tell you just as much as he can, but what he tells you will be intelligent and right.

As for tires: yeah, pinch flats, because there are cross courses where you want very low pressure for traction and control, but where clinchers would be flat prone. Another thing is simply tire selection -- there's a good selection of high quality cross tubular tires and a much poorer selection of good cross clinchers (which may have something to do with the first point). Still, if you're just thinking of trying to go off road a bit, or give a cross course a whirl, and you already have clincher wheels, then just find some cross clinchers and give it a whirl -- michelin makes muds for mud/all around and jets for hard ground (and road); challenge makes a clincher, vittoria, etc.

[markie]

answer 6:

Cantilever brakes when set up OK normally have plenty of stopping power for cyclocross where breaking quickly is normally limited by the amount of traction your tires can get with the ground.

Cantilever brakes require different amounts of pull at the brake lever to a V-brake. Cantilevers work with road brakes. V-brakes work with MTB brake levers.

(((Dia Compe 287V looks like a road lever but has enough pull for V-brakes.)))

[hansolo758]

Prez-pal: Try this (http://cycle-smart.com/Articles/browse2.php?id=1). Have fun!

[velosport]

Your position is usually more upright/shorter so you can use the drops. I also like being forward and more over the bottom bracket.

Disc brakes are heavy and limit your wheel choices especially if you go for higher end road wheels.

Stick with clinchers to start so you can try different tires easily and the Michelin Mud tire is considered by many to be the best all around clincher tire. Tubulars are lighter and allow lower pressures for comfort and grip.

People use cross bikes because they are the fastest bike for the conditions. If you plan to race get a cross bike if you just want to go out and have fun use a mtn. bike.

Carbon wheels are used because they are the lightest wheels and pad compounds have made it where they stop almost as well as Al rims.

Buy the book by Simon Burney on Cyclocross make sure you get the latest edition. It's a great overview of cyclocross.

[J.Greene]

2. the brakes set up is for mud clearance..I get that, but is the use of disc brakes not allowed and for what reason. I seem in my mini research to find cross bikes set up with discs. With the conditions often in such sloppy conditions, discs make sense. Is it a weight issue or UCI nonsense?


We had a belgian pro speak to our bike club a few years ago. About the only thing I can remember almost word for word was how he said Americans are too concerned with using the brakes.

JG

[Dave B]

thanks all!

With regards to courses, I get the laps part of it, but what about length of typical races? How long (distance) say average r the courses?

[Bruce K]

Length around here has varied to try and attain approximately 8 minute laps.

Courses vary from wooded to wide open to twisty to hilly depending on whether they are inland, oceanside, or whatnot.

BK

[zank]

thanks all!

With regards to courses, I get the laps part of it, but what about length of typical races? How long (distance) say average r the courses?

The typical course length is 2-3K, but that can be anywhere from 5 minutes a lap to 12 minutes a lap depending on conditions. That is why races go by time rather than distance.

Disk brakes are allowed for all races except UCI sanctioned elite events. If you are just getting into cross, this will probably not be a concern for you. But aside from the panic stops, your brakes are more for speed modulation than pure stopping power. Disk brakes are heavier than necessary and you will never find a neutral pit wheel with a disk on it.

Tubulars allow much lower pressure without as high a probability of pinch flatting compared to clinchers. I ran as low as 25 psi this season on some courses with my tubulars, but I would not run my clinchers that low. The lowest I would run my Mud 2 clinchers is 35. A top-quality tubular (Challenge, Dugast, FMB) is so much more supple than any clincher on the market. Night and day out on the course.

Check out http://www.cxmagazine.com/. It is a brand new cyclocross magazine. The first of its kind!

As mentioned, courses range from groomed grass to singletrack and everything in between. What makes it a cyclocross course is there are other people all around racing against you :) There are specidfic course design parameters for UCI sanctioned races, but promoters of smaller races often do some crazier (and more fun) things with their courses.

Road brake levers do not pull enough cable for a standard v-brake. You can use a travel agent to "fix" this, but it makes things too cluttered for my taste. Riders have been having good luck with the new bunch of mini-v's, but I find a good ol' canti is just fine.

I have never used carbon wheels, so I can't comment.

You can use a mountain bike (no bar ends allowed though), but you never see anyone grab a mountain bike because it is faster in a typical cross race in New England. I don't know about other areas of the country though. Even the lightest hard tail or rigid mountain bike is going to heavier than a typical cross bike. Cross is all about accelerations and then holdiing the highest speed you can attain between turns or transitions. Having a lighter weight bike really helps when accelerating and when on foot in obstacle sections.

Try racing cross. It's the most fun you will have on two wheels...

[Dr. Doofus]

even if you never race it, set it up 'cross style -- its just faster...all scrunched up gives you more power and better control (coming from the guy who bit it thursday)....

i've never had problems bouncing back and forth between road, cross, and my fixed during the winter...but my saddle position is low to start with (some roads down here bounce you around like a 'cross course), so the only difference on my 'cross is reach and drop. if you run a high saddle, you could get pretty doofed up bouncing between positions...

[caleb]

answer 6:

Cantilever brakes when set up OK normally have plenty of stopping power for cyclocross where breaking quickly is normally limited by the amount of traction your tires can get with the ground.

Cantilever brakes require different amounts of pull at the brake lever to a V-brake. Cantilevers work with road brakes. V-brakes work with MTB brake levers.

(((Dia Compe 287V looks like a road lever but has enough pull for V-brakes.)))

Problem Solvers allow you to use road levers and v-brakes. I have them now, and they work well. The Kool Stop Thinline pads in red are the best ones I have ever used - no squeal, no chatter, even at road speeds. Better than the salmon compound.

[manet]

9. what color is a cross bike?

[zank]

9. white

[Dave B]

that is funny, this started with my obsession of ergott's white zank! I have had it on my desktop at school and my students love it.

Being a mtber @ heart, a new way ( to me ) to ride on dirt sounds like a blast!

[Grant McLean]

Problem Solvers allow you to use road levers and v-brakes.

yes...

and a pocket protector lets you keep your pens in your shirt pocket...

just not happening. :)

-g

[roman meal]

9. what color is a cross bike?


red, of course.

[manet]

red, of course.

that's pink... take your sunglasses off.

[manet]

and by the way, i can't believe you didn't comment on grant's thought that canadian's inventing the pocket protector.

[junior2189]

We had a belgian pro speak to our bike club a few years ago. About the only thing I can remember almost word for word was how he said Americans are too concerned with using the brakes.

JG
my only work half the time. who needs to stop

JUNIOR

[roman meal]

yes...

and a pocket protector lets you keep your penis in your shirt pocket...

just not happening. :)

-g


Is this what cold winter nights up there lead to?

[caleb]

yes...

and a pocket protector lets you keep your pens in your shirt pocket...

just not happening. :)

-g

Not sayin' they're ideal, but you go with what you've got. My rig is pretty ghetto...

[caleb]

yes...

and a pocket protector lets you keep your pens in your shirt pocket...

just not happening. :)

-g

Ned Overend at CX nats today (http://www.velonews.com/view_full.php?image=/images/cyc/13801.21612.f.jpg)

[SadieKate]

Thanks, Caleb. I needed that.

[davids]

9. what color is a cross bike?
Zank's answer confuses me.

It's baby blue, atmo.