What is wrong with Microsoft??

[jhcakilmer]

Seriously, why is Vista so problematic? Almost every day there is an issue with the presentations at school. I'm sure the IT people want to throw it out the window. I don't even use it, and I want to!

I just don't understand how a company like Microsoft can release something like Vista. I just hear about issue after issue, apparently it wasn't quite ready.

I'm an Apple user, and just updated to Leopard, and it works just....well like it should. It actually seems faster then 10.4, even with Microsoft Office, and other 3rd party programs. I also like the new features of Stacks, Time Machine, and the new modifications to Mail! Man, it really took up a lot of space though....something like 4 gigs, just to update from 10.4......operating systems are getting so large.

Started using Macs back when I was doing undergrad research at UMASS and I'll never go back!!

[thwart]

Shimano = Microsoft

Campagnolo = Apple


Duck! Here it comes!

[Len J]

I have an IPod....love it....had it about 2 years, lots of use........battery just died.....

$100 to have a battery changed and I have to send it to Apple....***?

I hate planned obsolesence......it's easier to get a new unit....I refuse.

Len

[Louis]

What is wrong with Microsoft??

Maybe it's the fact that they have a near-monopoly on operating systems?

Why bother improving, when a huge majority of the market continues to buy your product, regardless of how cr@ppy it happens to be?

Seems to me what most of us would do if we were in their shoes.

[Grant McLean]

I have an IPod....love it....had it about 2 years, lots of use........battery just died.....

$100 to have a battery changed and I have to send it to Apple....***?

I hate planned obsolesence......it's easier to get a new unit....I refuse.

Len

No need to send it to Apple for a battery.
Most cities have independent iPod service centers springing up all over.
There's one near my place, they do battery replacements for $29.99

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=iPod+battery+replacement&btnG=Search&meta=

-g

[Grant McLean]

Seriously, why is Vista so problematic? !

What's wrong with people, is the better question...
Or maybe it's the IT department at every company...
People are so afraid of trying anything but MS products,
they don't even give Apple (or any other brand's) products a try.
You read so much misinformation about Apple, it's laughable.
In the iPhone thread, someone said you can't open word docs?
Whatever!

-g

[avalonracing]

What's wrong with people, is the better question...
Or maybe it's the IT department at every company...
People are so afraid of trying anything but MS products,
they don't even give Apple (or any other brand's) products a try.
You read so much misinformation about Apple, it's laughable.
In the iPhone thread, someone said you can't open word docs?
Whatever!

-g

It was also said the iPhone was large compared to other "smartphones".
Whatever... again.

I really don't get the Apple haters either. My Apple computers have rocked in every way and I LOVE my iPhone. I could care less if other people want to use MS products but do you really need to bash my stuff because it is stable, fun and easy to use? If it weren't for Apple pushing the envelope the MS OS would probably still look like DOS.

My office uses MS and I was on the phone with my company's tech support this afternoon because an office computer was locking up. Supports fix: We're not sure. Try it again in a half an hour. Nice.

Some people just don't want to try something new. Hell, there are still people driving around with "W" stickers on their cars. I always want to tap on their window and ask, "How's that working out for you?" I know, I know... Off topic, don't start. I guess I'm pissed because I was almost run over while waking out of the local Safeway tonight by a woman in a black pickup who ran the stop sign. As she drove away all I saw was the stupid NASCAR number and W sticker on the tinted back window. Okay, that rant is over.

[Elefantino]

It was also said the iPhone was large compared to other "smartphones".
Whatever... again.

I really don't get the Apple haters either. My Apple computers have rocked in every way and I LOVE my iPhone. I could care less if other people want to use MS products but do you really need to bash my stuff because it is stable, fun and easy to use? If it weren't for Apple pushing the envelope the MS OS would probably still look like DOS.

My office uses MS and I was on the phone with my company's tech support this afternoon because an office computer was locking up. Supports fix: We're not sure. Try it again in a half an hour. Nice.

Some people just don't want to try something new. Hell, there are still people driving around with "W" stickers on their cars. I always want to tap on their window and ask, "How's that working out for you?" I know, I know... Off topic, don't start. I guess I'm pissed because I was almost run over while waking out of the local Safeway tonight by a woman in a black pickup who ran the stop sign. As she drove away all I saw was the stupid NASCAR number and W sticker on the tinted back window. Okay, that rant is over.
Another reason not to shop at Safeway.

[Pete Serotta]

google apple battery replacement - - there is an entire industry around repairing these......in fact places buy the ones you do not want - just for parts... e-Richie is commissioning a red one :D

pete


I have an IPod....love it....had it about 2 years, lots of use........battery just died.....

$100 to have a battery changed and I have to send it to Apple....***?

I hate planned obsolesence......it's easier to get a new unit....I refuse.

Len

[Pete Serotta]

Just installed Leopard on my macBook pro...it does seem to be a little faster on some of the programs, Has some neat new features,

We can go into many debates on Microsoft problems....THey seem to let the public do trouble shooting for them, They can do this because they are pretty much the only "game in town".

There are two reasons for the number of bugs in the "production version" in my opinion
1 it is cheaper to let us do the PD, (for minor bugs, although once in a while the minor turns to major)
2 the faster they get the product to market the faster they get a "revenue stream".

There are many techs and programers out there and they could tell you a story or tow on the things that go into rolling out a new application.

Apple vs Microsoft in Corporate life becomes more difficult because of the applications that a business uses. Many are not Apple operating system compatible. (Yeah they could run both on an apple machine, but this is not something IT departments want to support (I know I would not),

Example - I have a Merrill Lynch account and can not down load my account info to apple. Additionally Quicken Apple version is not the most current for features as the MS version.

MS ACCESS does not run on APPLE - or if someone knows how, please let me know for SEROTTA has ACCESS and some of the folks like APPLE - but MS is the platform.

I have been using an APPLE for about two years....Now my daughters are using them too. SPOKES know has one. Someplace I read that APPLE know has about 16% of the portable market. (US I would assume)

Have a good day..... :D

[ergott]

It's enough to convert me. I'm not buying a new laptop just now, but the next one will be a Mac. I'm tired of it all. I have XP which is fine, but I'm ready for change.

[Climb01742]

an 800-pound gorilla is usually a lazy gorilla. until someone forces MS to change, they won't.

[DarrenCT]

funny thread. i woke up this morning and my vista PC desktop was rebooted with about 30+ updates

[Acotts]

All I got to say is that Internet Porn will ravage any computer. I am not pointing fingers...I am just sayin'
:no:

[3chordwonder]

I use Apple every day too. Started using them for work in 1987. They have had numerous issues. I've lost count of the amount of dodgy stuff coming out of Apple over the years and have asked myself the same question: how could a large company ship a product so defective?

If I sound out of tune with the rest of the Apple choir, why not just have a look at Apple's user forums (in their tech support area) and read up on the frustration the Leopard release brought to the early adapters who installed the first version, or the hardware issues experienced by Powerbook laptop buyers with warped lids, overheating cases and disinterested warranty responses.

I religiously stay behind on system releases with Apple, and that policy has served me well - by the time I install an OS update, they usually have either sorted out the bugs, or the fixes for issues I'll encounter due to the upgrade are already logged in a usergroup forum or the Apple tech forums.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that MS is better. I hear they're worse. If that's true then there must be some serious productivity hit on the national economy whenever they 'upgrade' an OS.

I guess the short answer to the question of how do they get away with it, is that en masse, consumers let them.

[Acotts]

My problem with apple:

I dont want to buy a life-style when all I want it a computer.

[keno]

partly because I remember the days when you had to actually stand up and walk in order to change the channel on your tv set. I still look at this gizmo in front of me somewhat in awe. I honestly believe that if the disappointment of our expectations for some notion of perfection upset us, we have more important problems to deal with than operating systems.

I used to work for an online brokerage firm and was amazed at the work that went into bringing out a new application or a simple change in an old one for our website, and have a few EE degrees (just establishing creds). My thinking heroes are the cryptanalysts who made this thread possible.

That said, I hate Vista and use XP Pro which suffices well for my "see Spot run" use.

keno

[William]

Mac user here. Have been for years.

I have to use a PC at work and it works ok, but way more problems then I've ever had on any of my Macs.




William

[Grant McLean]

My problem with apple:

I dont want to buy a life-style when all I want it a computer.


Admit it, you're on a mac right now, aren't you?
Good cover story!

:D



-g

[pale scotsman]

We got one PC with Vista and that was it. None of our legacy apps will work on it. Sitting still it uses 520mb of memory. We've got to keep on keepin' on, so we still buy PC's and laptops with XP.

If we had to go with Vista we'd be screwed. Windows 2000 with SP4 was rock solid with no frills, then XP with the classic desktop is fine too. Vista --- ***?

This really hurts business. I work for a small 90 bed hospital and we cannot use it period. We cannot afford to wait for new client access software, or for the vendor to customize their app to work with Vista. Besides replacing 120 desktops at once is a royal pain in the *** when you are a department of one.

I really hope microsoft comes out with service pack 3 soon for XP and go back to the drawing board to give businesses an OS without all the fru-fru crap.

[saab2000]

I use an ancient iBook G4. It has some issues but for the most part is pretty nice.

Plusses:

- Reliable
- Good service from Apple when it broke down.
- Easy to use*

Negatives:

- Won't run some basic things, or if it does run them they run poorly.
- Slow with Safari and iTunes and iPhoto open at the same time.
- Apple make is easy to use, but they are not as intuitive as Apple likes to make it seem.
- E-mail attachments very often don't open.
- No right mouse click. How do you do that on an Apple?
- Relatively limited instructions. You're just expected to know how to use everything.

* - works right out of the box. More or less. I am still inadvertently discovering features. They need to provide better instructions.

[72gmc]

saab, I'm replying to your post on a G4. You can buy a right-click mouse, even one with a wheel for scrolling, and it should work just fine on your Mac. You can't run Lego Star Wars on your old Mac, though, which is why we will be upgrading to a MacBook for the home pretty soon. The kids have priorities.

I make my living, in part, doing work for Microsoft. So I don't hate them. But I am a creative, so I do my work on a Mac.

[PaulE]

Microsoft Car
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating, "If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they painted new lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.

For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought "CarNT," but then you would have to buy more seats.

6. Apple would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but it would only run on five percent of the roads.

7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "general protection fault" warning light.

8. The airbag system would ask, "Are you sure?" before deploying.

9. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the antenna.

10. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally Road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 percent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

11. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

12. You'd have to press the "start" button to turn the engine off.

13. The radio would be computerized, but you'd need to install 64 Meg of RAM, a new sound card, a game card, a new video driver, a CD drive, and type C:\radio\talk\rush*.* to get it to play.

14. The entire engine wouldn't be in the bay at once, and the car would have to keep stopping and starting to load in the relevant parts.

15. The speedometer would read 70 even though you are only doing 50.

16. You would have to have a full service every 500 miles.

17. Your car would refuse to start with a message "Abort, Retry, Fail?"

18. For some reason the engine controller would need a 1G hard disc and would take 5 minutes to boot up.

18. The steering wheel would be replaced with a mouse and you'd need to memorize the keyboard short-cut for "Brake".

19. A particular model year of car wouldn't be available until after that year- instead of before it.

20. They wouldn't build their own engines but form a cartel with their engine supplier. The latest engine would have 16 cylinders, multi-point fuel injection and 4 turbos, but it would be a side-valve design so you could use Model-T Ford parts on it. There would be an "Engium Pro" with bigger turbos, but it would be slower on most existing roads.

21. New seats would require everyone to have the same butt size.

22. We would all have to switch to Microsoft Gas.

23. The U.S. government would be forced to rebuild all of the roads for Microsoft cars; they will drive on the old roads, but they run very slowly.

24. People would get excited about the new features of the latest Microsoft cars, forgetting that these same features had been available from other car makers for years.

25. Ford, General Motors and Chrysler would all be complaining because Microsoft was putting a radio in all its models.

[HSG Racer]

Microsoft has always had issues with their first releases. Microsoft makes great products for Business (SQL Server, Exchange and Windows Server) and for home use as well. But it generally takes them a release or two to iron out the bugs. The users are in effect the testers of any new products released by Microsoft. The real issue here is your IT department. They should have known this. The whole IT industry knows not to deploy any new releases of Microsoft software or any other software for that matter until the first service pack is released. Vista will be a great operating system eventually.

MAC is great for home use and for small business. But, who makes the most popular software suite that runs on MAC? That's right, it's Microsoft with their MS Office suite for MAC. Apple is not really capable of connecting to powerful Windows Servers that run Oracle or SQL Server or Lotus Notes or Exchange or .NET Servers and it is not designed for that. So Apple is not suited for large organizations and they do not pretend to be. This is not an Apple or Microsoft issue. It's a deployment issue and your IT department should have known to wait until service pack 1 of Vista is released.

:cool:

[William]

http://www.timfanelli.com/images/catastrophic_failure.PNG





William ;)

[bostondrunk]

If you want to buy a new laptop, just wipe it when you get it and install XP. Might take a little digging to get the proper drivers, but it usually isn't that hard. I did it with a Dell Vostro 1700, no probs.

[gt6267a]

Apple is not really capable of connecting to powerful Windows Servers that run Oracle or SQL Server or Lotus Notes or Exchange or .NET Servers and it is not designed for that. So Apple is not suited for large organizations and they do not pretend to be. This is not an Apple or Microsoft issue. It's a deployment issue and your IT department should have known to wait until service pack 1 of Vista is released.

:cool:

did you just say powerful windows server?

so, there is no email client for mac? hmmm, i thought there was one, even ms makes one, no?

if we get a little history going, for a long time windows was a desktop OS and unix (or a mainframe) was the server OS standard. ms has gotten into the server field, but let's not start polishing a turd. for the real big boy apps, most companies i know are running them on some flavor of unix.

true, companies are getting tired of paying for sun / hp / ibm hardware and support, but most of my peeps who have thrown their databases, oracle apps, and hardcore apps on windows are tired of the reboots, security issues, and general lack of day-in day-out workability.

it is true though, those companies are not going back to solaris / hp / ibm ... they are buying dell boxes and running redhat.

[HSG Racer]

did you just say powerful windows server?

so, there is no email client for mac? hmmm, i thought there was one, even ms makes one, no?

if we get a little history going, for a long time windows was a desktop OS and unix (or a mainframe) was the server OS standard. ms has gotten into the server field, but let's not start polishing a turd. for the real big boy apps, most companies i know are running them on some flavor of unix.

true, companies are getting tired of paying for sun / hp / ibm hardware and support, but most of my peeps who have thrown their databases, oracle apps, and hardcore apps on windows are tired of the reboots, security issues, and general lack of day-in day-out workability.

it is true though, those companies are not going back to solaris / hp / ibm ... they are buying dell boxes and running redhat.

No that's wrong. You are using old information that may have been valid in 2000 but not now. Windows Servers are extremely stable now and the server hardware with 64 bit architecture 64 GB of memory and powerful dual-core processors can blow away any unix server out there. That wasn't the case in the 1990s but it has been the case for several years now. Window 2003 Server is an extremely powerful and stable server operating system that completely dominates the server market. Windows 2008 Server will virtually eliminate any redhad or linux competition. Look at thse sites from the very well respected Gartner group to see the numbers for yourself.

http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/08/28/the-server-market-share-battle-microsoft-gains-2/

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=308743&intsrc=news_ts_head

I have a MAC and MAC book at home and I love them. They are great home and personal computers. But, MACs are not suited for larger businesses and they don't pretend to be. They are what they are - great personal computers.

[gt6267a]

Back away from the exchange server and think about harder core applications.

No doubt, MS products don’t suck like they did 5-8 years ago, but get a grip, if a company has a massive Oracle database, they don’t put it on a Windows server. Talking to an oracle friend, the large scale installations are NOT running their production Oracle DBs on windows. The predominant choices are Solaris and Linux.

[Tom]

(1) Years ago I read an interesting column that argued that if they waited until a product was ready to go to market, they'd fail. They have to roll it early. They'd never roll it ever if they waited until it worked every time.
(2) They roll into an uncontrolled environment. It doesn't matter how good their testers are, they can't recreate every combination of hardware, installed software, interactions and timings.

I'm not apologizing for them... I can't believe anybody anywhere ever thought MS products were 'enterprise products'. IBM and Microsoft got an early head start. Rightly or wrongly, people believed that there wasn't software for the Apple environment and Apple made an early mistake where they gave the perception you needed Apple hardware to run Apple OS and apps. Maybe that was true, I didn't follow it. But it does give one the opportunity to control things a whole lot more, and thus you don't have as many weird things screwing you up.

And as Climb said, once you're the 800 pound gorilla as long as the money rolls in why change?

[Tom]

.

No doubt, MS products don’t suck like they did 5-8 years ago, but get a grip, if a company has a massive Oracle database, they don’t put it on a Windows server. Talking to an oracle friend, the large scale installations are NOT running their production Oracle DBs on windows. The predominant choices are Solaris and Linux.

And the ones that want to save a lot of money are running Linux on zSeries. Sigh.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . No doubt, MS products don’t suck like they did 5-8 years ago . . . .

Hilarious that so many people (not you GT, just so many people in general) jump to defend MS. They still suck, but not as much as they used to!

Love my Mac . . .

BBD

[deechee]

funny, this guy (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2223921,00.asp) compares leopard to vista and thinks they're equally lousy.

I've had my share of frustrations on Macs (from the Plus to the current G5s), PCs, Sun and other various unix and linux platforms. They ALL have their pros and cons. For the mac-can-do-no-wrong people - remember this?

[thwart]

Now it's the rotating beachball of death...

Although I don't see it much. Certainly compared to my work PC :crap:

[BumbleBeeDave]

For the mac-can-do-no-wrong people - remember this?

I never have to restart my machine any more if some program crashes. Protected memory in the new OS just lets me go to the finder, select the "force quit" menu, and quit the offending program. And that happens rarely at work and almost never at home.

BBD

[roman meal]

I guess I'm pissed because I was almost run over while waking out of the local Safeway tonight by a woman in a black pickup who ran the stop sign. As she drove away all I saw was the stupid NASCAR number and W sticker on the tinted back window. Okay, that rant is over.


I was almost gunned down by a Subaru with a "Kerry/Edwards" sticker on the back. Stevep?

[avalonracing]

I was almost gunned down by a Subaru with a "Kerry/Edwards" sticker on the back. Stevep?

Was it a Forester? It could have been my wife. I'll ask her about it later.

[avalonracing]

I use an ancient iBook G4. It has some issues but for the most part is pretty nice.

Plusses:

- Reliable
- Good service from Apple when it broke down.
- Easy to use*

Negatives:

- Won't run some basic things, or if it does run them they run poorly.
- Slow with Safari and iTunes and iPhoto open at the same time.
- E-mail attachments very often don't open.
- No right mouse click. How do you do that on an Apple?
- Relatively limited instructions. You're just expected to know how to use everything.

* - works right out of the box. More or less. I am still inadvertently discovering features. They need to provide better instructions.

You may find the right click features that you are looking for by pressing the
'ctrl' or 'option' button before you click (select what you want to work on first)

For instructions check out Apples website, it has a wealth of info

As for your other issues you did say that you are running an ancient machine. You may need more ram as newer programs require it.

[sg8357]

And the ones that want to save a lot of money are running Linux on zSeries. Sigh.

I love irony, remember when IBM was the big evil beast of Armonk,
using Fear Uncertainty and Doubt to be a virtual monopoly ?

Personal Computers were supposed to free us from the Tyrants
of MIS. Now Microsoft is what IBM used to be.

And neu-IBM is fighting the good fight against the MS Hegemons,
with Linux, which is after all a child of Ma Bell the Mother of
Monopolies.

[Ti Designs]

I look at changes based on their added value vs. their added expense. When talking about an OS there's one expense that no software company has ever acknowledged - the cost of teaching the user how to use it. If there are significant changes in how things are done the user is slower over the whole learning curve, even with the faster machine. Given the correct drivers I can set up a network printer on a Windows98 machine in less than 5 minutes. The same task took me two hours and four tech service phone calls with XP. For all of the claims made of the new operating systems I see very few attempts to allow humans to work faster over the service life of the machine.

Human interface is something that very few companies have a clue about. Not long ago 60 minutes did a story about the growing tech service industry which has come about because everything is sold based on features. Their example was perfect, take the remote for your TV and at a glance identify what all of the buttons do. There are all kinds of features and functions that you don't know about, don't know how to undo should you press them, and frankly don't want. Every computer OS is 100 times worse. I was trying to buy a good quality digital point-and-shoot camera as a chrismas present - there are none. They all have 20 different modes, digital face recognition??? They even package them in larger boxes because they need to list all of the features/functions (taking a picture isn't one of them - I checked!).

Microsoft and Apple are both trying to build and OS that's compatible with the whole world, which just isn't possible. The best they can hope for is being compatible with what exists now, which is to say there will be a new OS some time in the near future. It would be nice if they could add to an OS without changing the user interface, but if it looks the same who would pay more for it? So we have the new OS coming out quicker each time while the learning curve stays just as long. It's an ugly game.

There are a few things which remain untouched by this cycle. I look at my piano and I know that the position and order of those keys have never changed. I'm sure it pisses off Bill Gates that people still use keyboard version 1.0, but that's the way it is. on the bright side, without having to relearn where the keys are every 18 months it's possible to get really good at using it. I've never had to call tech support to find out where C is...

[jbrainin]

[QUOTE=saab2000]I use an ancient iBook G4. It has some issues but for the most part is pretty nice.

- No right mouse click. How do you do that on an Apple?

Hold the ctrl key and click.

[Grant McLean]

I look at changes based on their added value vs. their added expense. When talking about an OS there's one expense that no software company has ever acknowledged - the cost of teaching the user how to use it. If there are significant changes in how things are done the user is slower over the whole learning curve, even with the faster machine. Given the correct drivers I can set up a network printer on a Windows98 machine in less than 5 minutes. The same task took me two hours and four tech service phone calls with XP. For all of the claims made of the new operating systems I see very few attempts to allow humans to work faster over the service life of the machine.

Human interface is something that very few companies have a clue about. Not long ago 60 minutes did a story about the growing tech service industry which has come about because everything is sold based on features. Their example was perfect, take the remote for your TV and at a glance identify what all of the buttons do. There are all kinds of features and functions that you don't know about, don't know how to undo should you press them, and frankly don't want. Every computer OS is 100 times worse. I was trying to buy a good quality digital point-and-shoot camera as a chrismas present - there are none. They all have 20 different modes, digital face recognition??? They even package them in larger boxes because they need to list all of the features/functions (taking a picture isn't one of them - I checked!).

Microsoft and Apple are both trying to build and OS that's compatible with the whole world, which just isn't possible. The best they can hope for is being compatible with what exists now, which is to say there will be a new OS some time in the near future. It would be nice if they could add to an OS without changing the user interface, but if it looks the same who would pay more for it? So we have the new OS coming out quicker each time while the learning curve stays just as long. It's an ugly game.

There are a few things which remain untouched by this cycle. I look at my piano and I know that the position and order of those keys have never changed. I'm sure it pisses off Bill Gates that people still use keyboard version 1.0, but that's the way it is. on the bright side, without having to relearn where the keys are every 18 months it's possible to get really good at using it. I've never had to call tech support to find out where C is...


I think it's called "feature creep" or "featuritis"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_featurism

Too many features prevents the user from easily using the product how
it was originally intended, and the product becomes frustrating and useless
in the process.


M$ is one of the worst offenders...imho.

Apple products are some of the best for streamlined use, without features
getting in the way. Compare an application like iTunes in Mac vs PC and
it's a total joke what the PC uses get...that said... iTunes is getting too
many features too. It was easier to use several generations of "upgrades" ago.


-g

[wtex]

Pale:

Both XP and Vista have upcoming Service Packs; both will, apparently, allow each to run faster. But, because XP already ran faster than Vista, the disparity in system speed will increase. So, for our 300 odd PCs, we'll continue to run and purchase XP. It just works :)

[big shanty]

I recently installed the new version of Norton on my ThinkPad (running XP). Seriously, Norton has to be worse than most viruses that might infect your computer, as far as how it impacts day-to-day usability. It is brutal. From what I've heard, dealing with Vista is a lot of the same crap.

[Karin Kirk]

I recently installed the new version of Norton on my ThinkPad (running XP). Seriously, Norton has to be worse than most viruses that might infect your computer, as far as how it impacts day-to-day usability. It is brutal. From what I've heard, dealing with Vista is a lot of the same crap.

Yes! I had the exact same experience with an XP Thinkpad. Norton was a horror.

I have to say that XP is pretty nice. With older versions of Windows, I used to have all the common problems with the computer freezing, etc. I'm on my 2nd XP Thinkpad and I've been happy with both. I used to be a Mac person because I worked in a department where everyone had Macs. I don't have a strong feeling either way. Either type of computer can drive you mad, and either one can be trouble-free. I do like the stylish-ness of the Mac stuff though, but that's not enough of a reason to switch.

[Tom]

I recently installed the new version of Norton on my ThinkPad (running XP). Seriously, Norton has to be worse than most viruses that might infect your computer, as far as how it impacts day-to-day usability. It is brutal. From what I've heard, dealing with Vista is a lot of the same crap.

Pull up task manager, see what is chewing up a ton of CPU, go out and Google it... apparently one of the recent Norton releases has a problem and there's some options you can turn off until they fix it.

[DukeHorn]

In the spirit of bad analogies

Apple = riders who need the bike shop to do all their maintenance or getting a bike with only SRAM components

Microsoft = riders who build up their own bikes or like swapping components between their frames.


It's sort of fun building your own computers up and having the flexibility of picking your graphic cards, your motherboard, your memory, etc.

Also, the premium you pay for a Mac is substantial. An Apple is something I get something that works and is cookie cutter. Doesn't that sound like a Trek (but at a custom bike price)?

to carry the bad analogy further

Vista = Shimano 10

XP = Shimano 9

[Tom]

My brother, who is a pretty smart guy (one of the first people to figure out what microRNA is and got himself elected to the National Academy of Sciences for that and other work), one time told me that he liked his Mac because he didn't have to figure it out, he could just work on what he needed to work on. He said he thought it was stupid to have to figure out how to use the tool or keep it working, he just wanted to use it.

What I see in the corporate world is that it's amazing how much productivity is lost as people monkeyfart around on their Windoze machines trying to get them to do stuff.

[avalonracing]

I read somewhere "The perfect computer would have only one button". That is how I feel... computers should allow us to be creative and be more human not the other way around.

[Avispa]

Maybe it's the fact that they have a near-monopoly on operating systems?

Why bother improving, when a huge majority of the market continues to buy your product, regardless of how cr@ppy it happens to be?

Seems to me what most of us would do if we were in their shoes.

an 800-pound gorilla is usually a lazy gorilla. until someone forces MS to change, they won't.

To a certain degree, these almost sound like the government and what it is now doing.... The thing is, there are little choices here.

..A..

[chuckred]

No need to send it to Apple for a battery.
Most cities have independent iPod service centers springing up all over.
There's one near my place, they do battery replacements for $29.99

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=iPod+battery+replacement&btnG=Search&meta=

-g

I never even thought of it... I found ipod battery source (http://www.batteryship.com/htmlos/htmlos.cgi/batteryship/catalog.html?item=EC003) . $24 or so, new battery, tool kit, instructions and shipping.

I'll let you know if an idiot can do this after I get it!

[Pete Serotta]

TO some the computer is a hobby or a challenge. TO others it is a utility just like the refrigerator or stove.....

Really depends on what camp we fall into........


I have 20 years of MICROSOFT and even IBM OS2. I look at the computer as an information tool. FOR those 20 years I was given a IBM Compatible or IBM until it was sold to CHINESE and became a LENOVO.

WHen I had to pay for it, the APPLE was the best for me (as of 2 years ago). I used APPLE in the 90s at the clients and was not impressed. I am impressed now.

This does not mean I will never use the Microsoft again - for I do when the client has Microsoft. They both work.

This is an argument that has no winner or loser,,,BUT LOTS of BEVERAGES can be consumed discussing it, :beer:

[Wayne77]

http://www.timfanelli.com/images/catastrophic_failure.PNG





William ;)

Yes, it does look familiar, this is what comes up on my PC:

[benb]

There is nothing wrong with Microsoft.. what people fail to realize is Apple & MS have different goals and priorities.

The two big things that are a massive thorn in MS'es side when it comes to windows:

- Preserving compatibility with old software
- Preserving compatibility with a huge range of hardware

Apple has to deal with neither of these things. As a result Leopard for example is incredibly simple compared to Vista. Want to run Leopard on a G4 slower then 800mhz? Tough luck. Want to run on a machine that's not an Apple? Tough luck. Want to run Classic software? Tough luck. Want to run a Mac 68k binary? Tough luck!

MS made different decisions about what to run and what to run on a very long time ago and they've arrived at their current place as a result of 20+ years of two different philosophies. Vista is actually one of the first signs that they are changing their philosophy.. that's what most of the incompatibility is.. people complain about X, and when they change, people complain about Y.

I disagree with the concept of MS being for the enthusiast who wants to build their own PC... if that's you then you should be running an Open Source OS.. why quit at plugging the hardware together when you can build your own OS as well?

[jhcakilmer]

There is nothing wrong with Microsoft.. what people fail to realize is Apple & MS have different goals and priorities.

The two big things that are a massive thorn in MS'es side when it comes to windows:

- Preserving compatibility with old software
- Preserving compatibility with a huge range of hardware

Apple has to deal with neither of these things. As a result Leopard for example is incredibly simple compared to Vista. Want to run Leopard on a G4 slower then 800mhz? Tough luck. Want to run on a machine that's not an Apple? Tough luck. Want to run Classic software? Tough luck. Want to run a Mac 68k binary? Tough luck!

MS made different decisions about what to run and what to run on a very long time ago and they've arrived at their current place as a result of 20+ years of two different philosophies. Vista is actually one of the first signs that they are changing their philosophy.. that's what most of the incompatibility is.. people complain about X, and when they change, people complain about Y.

I disagree with the concept of MS being for the enthusiast who wants to build their own PC... if that's you then you should be running an Open Source OS.. why quit at plugging the hardware together when you can build your own OS as well?


I think you hit on the exact point. Apple has the huge advantage of both designing the software and hardware.....another reason to buy a Mac.

Plus I have 3 Macs in my house
2001 Imac G4 700mhz
2003 Powerbook G4 1G
2006 Macbook Core Duo

The 7 year old 700mhz Imac is running Mac OS 10.3, and the only reason I haven't updated further is that it only has a CD drive.

Second, why not just partition your hard-drive install Mac OS Classic , and boot up. Plus why in the world would I want to go back to Classic, what's next DOS.

Maybe MS is changing, but it seems like they should at least make sure their OS works on the most basic level before releasing it. It seem statistically that they had to see some of these issues before the release.

IMO the G4 Imac were the best design from Apple, wish they stuck with it! I love mine....still to this day, it is the quietest computer I have ever used!

[Grant McLean]

Second, why not just partition your hard-drive install Mac OS Classic , and boot up.

I see this as the future of personal computing, when the OS becomes less
intrusive in the user experience. As a user, who cares about the operating system?
I use applications!
Why not just toggle between whatever system you need to run the
program you need. If M$ wasn't such a monoply, we'd already be there.

Given that Apple is rocking it in laptop sales, and will pass windoze in market
share in the next couple of years, i think the dual/multi boot system is finally
coming...

-g

[Len J]

Given that Apple is rocking it in laptop sales, and will pass windoze in market
share in the next couple of years, i think the dual/multi boot system is finally
coming...

-g

Are you smoking... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool: ....in 2006 Apple had 4.1 % of the worldwide laptop market share....http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03/20/notebook/index.php....how are they going to gain that much share in a couple of years? Especially considering that business, which is a hugh laptop market will be windows for the forseeable future.

Len

[Grant McLean]

Are you smoking... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool: ....in 2006 Apple had 4.1 % of the worldwide laptop market share....http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03/20/notebook/index.php....how are they going to gain that much share in a couple of years? Especially considering that business, which is a hugh laptop market will be windows for the forseeable future.

Len

Last quarter apple had about 17% market share in lap tops, and climbing fast.

About 46% of laptops purchased by consumers and schools are Mac.

Many businesses have stopped buying laptops, replacing them with workstations
and pda's.

Give me a call in a couple of years, and we'll see :D

-g

[Len J]

Last quarter apple had about 20% market share in lap tops, and climbing fast.
About 46% of laptops purchased by consumers and schools are Mac.

Many businesses have stopped buying laptops, replacing them with workstations
and pda's.

Give me a call in a couple of years, and we'll see :D

-g

You are talking US...and last qtr it was 17.5% US market.

Businesses are accelerating their purchase of laptops as they get powerful enough to replace desktops and allow people to work at home.

We'll see...but I wouldn't hold my breath as long as pricing stays the way it is.

Len

[Grant McLean]

You are talking US...and last qtr it was 17.5% US market.

Businesses are accelerating their purchase of laptops as they get powerful enough to replace desktops and allow people to work at home.

We'll see...but I wouldn't hold my breath as long as pricing stays the way it is.

Len

I think there is a dual trend going on in business.
My company just dumped 100 dell laptops, for IBM worksations.
All the laptops had half the life of a workstation, at double the cost,
and our IT guys realized that almost none of the laptops were ever
undocked. Obviously people in the work environment need lap tops too,
but there is going to be massive replacement of Y2K machines that
are not going to be laptops, if they do the cost/benefit of their choices.

I believe the fastest growing portable market is kids... and kids like macs.
-g

[Avispa]

Last quarter apple had about 17% market share in lap tops, and climbing fast.

Yeah, more Apple laptops that are sold are being used to run Windows on a greater % of the time!!! 4 out of 5 PowerBooks, that I see people in my office, they come to ask me how to install or run BootCamp or Parallels or VM Ware.

..A..

[stevep]

i'm worried about the y3k bug.

what a fraud that was.

[benb]

The Y2K bug was real.. it was just mitigated pretty well.

That was an example of one kind of software bug... the one that is easy to fix, and relatively easy to find, but you know the error exists thousands of times over and you have to find every one... making it easy to miss some.

As opposed to the nasty ones.. which are one needle in a haystack and you know something wrong but you have no idea the needle is the cause or that it's even in there.

[gt6267a]

In the spirit of bad analogies

Apple = riders who need the bike shop to do all their maintenance or getting a bike with only SRAM components

Microsoft = riders who build up their own bikes or like swapping components between their frames.


It's sort of fun building your own computers up and having the flexibility of picking your graphic cards, your motherboard, your memory, etc.

Also, the premium you pay for a Mac is substantial. An Apple is something I get something that works and is cookie cutter. Doesn't that sound like a Trek (but at a custom bike price)?

to carry the bad analogy further

Vista = Shimano 10

XP = Shimano 9

One problem with this analogy ... Under the hood, OS X is free BSD. If there is anything for the true dork & diyer its having a beautiful interface and unix on the back end. Before anyone points it out, I will concede Apple has locked down the OS more than most geeks would like.

Two things that I believe could enable Apple to make a serious move to compete with MS.

1) Instead of spending time pruning free BSD, embrace a new customer base … geeks / dorks / miscreants. Release OS X with all the functionality of free BSD. Softcore users won’t even bother knowing the full power of the OS. They’ll like the mousing and ease of use … but take the hand-cuffs off the hard core set. They’ll love the fun gui for school / work and driver installs … they’ll also love the ability to install MySql, Oracle and generally make their machine a development lab, production server, or whatever.

2) License OS X for sale on non-apple hardware. Price it so that there is enough profit for Apple such that they don’t mind not selling their hardware or even that a Dell costs about the same. Make it available via standard distribution networks and let users decide what they want.

[benb]

#1 is pretty much there already. MySql already installs.. Oracle is probably not going to happen. Oracle is not supported on FreeBSD anyway.. you do that by building in support for Linux binaries and running the linux Oracle release.

#2 isn't going to happen.. remember Apple already tried it... and it almost killed them.

[Bud_E]

i'm worried about the y3k bug.

what a fraud that was.

Forget y3k. Here's the next big threat ( I'll be so old by 2038 it'll probably stall the machine my heart will be hooked up to ):

GET READY FOR THE 2038 BUG

Here's a quick heads-up for a potentially nasty little computer bug that could ruin your day on January 19th 2038… This one will only affect computers based on the Unix operating system, which includes some versions of Linux, and Windows 2000 machines running exotic applications may also be affected. The bug is similar to the notorious Y2K bug in that vulnerable computers will register the time and date incorrectly when the bug strikes. It’s all to do with the way Unix computers work out time. Instead of relying on an in built calendar they count seconds from the notional date the system was conceived, at GMT 00:00:00, on Thursday, January 1st, 1970, and like a car’s odometer going round the clock, on bug day it will run out of digits and the counter will roll over and probably reset to January 1st 1901 or another equally invalid date.

[C5 Snowboarder]

I just bought a lap top with Vista - now wish I had not. My desk top is Xp Professional.. wish my laptop was.

today I spent 2 hours on the phone with MS. 3 days ago MS auto update wanted me to update my IE Explore from 6 to version 7 on my desk top. So I did so my desk top could be close to my lap top in operation, the story goes. Well the update to Version 7 went well I thought after restarting my lovely problem free machine downstairs. So a couple of days later I sent an email to a freind using desktop.. he and then several others said "nice email nothing there!" so I tested my new IE version 7 downstairs and I could type a message just fine but hit the send button then everything goes away in to the bit trash can. Long story short -- the Microsoft tech helped me today .. reset everything in internet option, unloaded IE 7 , Loaded IE 6 and everything works again.. He said as we closed our wonderful conversation... Yea, IE 7 is not designed for use on Windows XP , only Vista. "" I said with a laugh "NoW you tell me, why did not MS warn against it since they were the ones suggesting it!.!!!" And these guys are our most numbered millionaires - in my back yard!!!

[DarrenCT]

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9070/41305063qb5.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Grant McLean]

You know, this Apple thing is just a toy for kids...
and you real business people can't use one...
any day now virus's for macs are just around the corner...
you should sell that stock, vista is coming...
Those iPods are just a fad...
that iPhone is too expensive...
who would pay for downloading a song...
do you know how many cd's amazon sells...
steve jobs is in trouble with the irs...



-g

(I was in at $30....begged, i mean begggggedddd my dad to do the same
and since he worked for HP for 25 years, he didn't, because he knows more
than me...;) )

[avalonracing]

I wish you would have saved your breath with your father and told me!

[DarrenCT]

You know, this Apple thing is just a toy for kids...
and you real business people can't use one...
any day now virus's for macs are just around the corner...
you should sell that stock, vista is coming...
Those iPods are just a fad...
that iPhone is too expensive...
who would pay for downloading a song...
do you know how many cd's amazon sells...
steve jobs is in trouble with the irs...



-g

(I was in at $30....begged, i mean begggggedddd my dad to do the same
and since he worked for HP for 25 years, he didn't, because he knows more
than me...;) )

g,

no wonder u have all those nice bikes :)

[stevep]

big banner ad on nytimes this am...
DONT GIVE UP ON VISTA

hahaha, funny i just looked at the ad again. its an apple ad in (sort of ) disguise...hahaha the odd couple ...


-g, where's my share of the apple money?
remember 75%, like we talked...this time you can pay me in canadian dollars.