Road bike for 6'7" rider?

[Brons2]

Hi,

I have been getting increasingly serious about doing long road rides. I first started pursuing it last year when I went to the finish line at the MS150 to meet my sister and I saw all the ordinary people crossing the line. The next big ride that came around, Shiner BASH, I signed up for. I outfitted my 1992 vintage Cannondale M500 with road tires, bought a jersey and padded shorts, and off I went. Since then I have done several other rides, which have lead me to one conclusion: I am ready for a road bike.

After doing some shopping, I am distressed to find that the 62 and 63cm bikes on the market don't fit. They're just not tall enough for me. I need a taller bike, or one with bigger tires and longer crank at least. One of the bike shops suggested I look into the Serotta, as they have a fitting station there. Another shop suggested I look into Zinn Cycles. After visiting both web sites, I am filled with questions. I had planned to spend no more than $1500 on this purchase initially, yet now I am looking at a $3000-$3500 purchase. Since I have had my mountain bike for 12 years and am still happy with it, that does ease my mind somewhat. However, my preference would still be for an off the shelf bike.

Questions:

1. Could a 63cm frame work with larger diameter wheels/tires and longer crank pedals? I noticed that on Zinn Cycles' site, they do offer longer cranks as a $275 option. They also offer 29" wheels for road bikes. Additionally, Mr. Zinn is a tall person about my height as well. That being said, I like the selection here on Serotta's site better.

1.5: Is there an off the shelf company that offers these options, such as larger tires/crank that might make a 63 cm workable? It doesn't seem like it's that far away from a good fit, I think a 65cm would do it in the ordinary tires/crank, but of course nobody makes that size.

2. If I order a custom bike, will I like it when it gets to my house? I did ride some Specialized and Felt bikes today that I did like, however, they were a bit small for me.. What if I get my custom bike and I don't like the ride? I chose my last bike because I thought it had the best seat-of-the-pants feel. In this case that feel will not be an option.

3. Do I need the upgraded components? One is tempted when already spending $1750 on the frame, to throw in upgraded components such as the Campy stuff, the $575 fork, etc, etc. However, will the Shimano Ultegra and the $225 fork do just fine for me? Is there a compelling reason to upgrade?

4. In addition to being 6'7", I am also 260 lbs. Will I break it? I ride hard and I am not exactly easy on my bike. (I'll have to skip the curb jumping that I do on my mountain bike though). I want the carbon seat tubes for the comfort level, yet those are the ones that I am most afraid of tweaking.

5. Any other comments/suggestions, or other custom manufacturers I should check out? Price is a big consideration as I have effectively doubled my original budget just getting into the custom built category at all. (the fact that I will keep this bike forever is not lost on me though, and that may make it worth the money to go custom)

Your opinions are appreciated.

Regards,
Jim
Austin, TX

[jrm]

I am 6'4" and have allways tried to fit on 63 cm bikes. I would put a stem on that was high and a longer seatpost and then longer cranks. I use 180 and this did help a lot but the problem is that your head is still bent up to see and my neck would get sore and would limit my rides. Plus you allways feel like you are sitting on top of the bike. I bought a Serotta after getting fitted and this is something I should have done years ago. Bike is comfortable and I feel like I sit in the bike instead of on top of it. More of an upright position and I can ride for 70 plus miles and get off with just my legs being tired.
I thought about a Colnago but my dealer would make me buy it before he would order it they make a 65 cm but the headtube isn't as long as you can get in a custom.
The bigger bikes are plenty stiff the bb area on mine is 1 3\8 and tapers up for a 27.2 seattube. The tubes have some thought not just longer to fit a bigger frame.
Who you buy from is up to you. Zinn blew me off a few times so I stopped talking to him and went with Serotta. My bike did come with some paint problems and weld splatter under the paint that I had to send back and get repaired under warranty so who you choose? I don't think either is any better than anyone else. Goodluck see ya John. :banana:

[flydhest]

Jim,

Fear not, there are some in your size on this forum. I, however, at a mere 6'2" feel petite just typing this to you.

First, welcome to the nutty world of (quasi) serious cycling. You'll find that you will lose all sense the more time you spend around us.

First general principle that will likely get echoed is that fact that having a professional fitter size you up can do wonders. Very tall and very small people, I think, benefit the most from this. It would be worth going to Serotta's webpage and looking at their list of shops to see if there is a fitter near you. This is not the end-all/be-all of bicycling, and not all fitters are created equal, but it is a really good first step that can make a world of difference.

I humbly assert that at your size, a 62 or 63 is going to be way too small and you shouldn't even go down that road. Wheel size is something I would also caution you against. 700c size wheels are industry standard and are by far more common, easier to replace and repair, and share spares that any minor benefit you'd get from a larger wheel would be not worth the cost. Most importantly, you don't need it.

Cranks are a matter of size and personal taste. At your height, I would suspect that 180mm cranks would be best. I am small (heh, heh) and have switched up to 180s to try and like it. I suspect that smaller cranks could work---175 would be acceptable--but you'd likely be most efficient on 180s.

There are plenty of builders who will make a 65, however, for the most part you'll be looking at custom builders. Serotta does a bang up job for larger folks, but you could look around. In particular, you mention Zinn, who specializes in bikes for the larger set.

One of the benefits of custom builders is that you get to define what you like and don't like about a ride. Fit is paramount, but describing what you like to do with a bike (e.g. long scenic riding versus high speed racing) will let a good builder/designer make a frame that will knock your socks off. Sounds like you're interested in longer-distance fitness riding, so make sure you communicate that to the builder.

I think you'll find that having a properly fitting frame will take care of most of the comfort issues. The cautious side of me says stay away from carbon at your size. Lots of people may say otherwise, but I don't think you gain much of anything and you risk much. Plus, it's costs more.

Given the cost is a consideration (although you don't say what the budget is) I would suggest you consider a custom steel frame. For Serotta, I'd give Kelly Bedford (the designer) a call (the number should be on the website) and discuss your concerns with him. A custom 65 or 66 C-III seems like it would do wonders. Built for all day comfort, I think you could be very happy. Slap on some 36 spoke Open Pro wheels and 28c tires and you're talking about a very comfortable ride at a very reasonable cost.

Re: components, I don't think you want to think of Campy as an upgrade, just a different choice. Were I you, I'd lean a bit more heavily to get the frame right in terms of initial dollars spent. Campy Centaur is, in my view, one heck of a value. Shimano 105 is actually no slouch in terms of performance, either.

[Needs Help]

1. The problem is that to get your seat high enough to get your knees properly positioned relative to the pedals, you will have a massive drop from the saddle to the handlebars. That means you will have to bend your body in half and crane your neck up to see down the rode. Riding in that position will cause you a lot of pain and you won't be able to breathe well. You can try and get a super riser stem to help solve that problem, but it still might not be enough.

1.5 You can always buy longer cranks. Search around for some 180’s or bigger if that’s what you need.

2. Some do, and some don't. It's a bit of a risk. A lot of people who order custom know what they want geometry wise from previous bikes.

3. Who can say what you "need"? As for a fork, if the bike is large enough, you might only have once choice for a fork: an Alpha Q ($400) which is made with a long 400mm steerer and has straight blades.

4. Sounds like you definitely need the Alpha Q fork. It also has a thicker carbon steerer than other forks. As for the carbon seat tube--forget it. You might require a "compact design" which means the top tube will slope upwards from the saddle to get the handlebars high enough without requiring a riser stem and lots of spacers under the stem. In that case, you would need a long seat post.

5. If price is a major consideration, forget about carbon stuff and go with cheaper components. Heck, today the Campy Centaur stuff is nearly as good as Campy Record components were 3 years ago, and they are more durable than current Record components.

[M_A_Martin]

Why does anyone *need* a carbon fork? A custom steel fork is an option as well, isn't it?

[flydhest]

MaryAnn is exactly right. A steel fork is a good thing. Nevertheless, I think the AlphaQ is plenty strong to hold up. I have one and like it a lot.

Steel forks are very responsive, very comfortable, and allow a lot of options in terms of frame size.

[Brons2]

flydhest,

My first stop was at the Trek dealer here in town (Bicycle Sport Shop) who is also a Serotta dealer. They have the fitting station and everything out in the open for all to see. I had stopped into this shop to try the 63cm Trek 2100 and 1500, which they did not have in stock. So I rode a 62cm Specialized which was a very nice ride but definitely too short. So they steered me towards a custom bike. They also mentioned the Colorado III btw.

This is a big jump for me. My budget WAS up to $1500, now it seems to be something more like $3000(+!). I do have the money, it's just that I have other priorities for it. Ah well.

Your point about wheels is well taken, the 700c is the standard size and going away from it could be expensive and difficult.

As far as ride goes, the reason I was interested in the carbon seat tubes was for ride quality. Then again, I ride a aluminum Cannondale mountain bike with the tires aired to 100psi on road rides, and the ride could only be described as bone-jarring, so anything may be better than that. Also I am becoming more competitive and faster the longer I do this (relatively speaking) so I may want a more aggresive bike. I'm a former college football player and I like to compete at things...

Oh well I guess I just have to get my mind around spending the addtional money on a road bike. I broke my elbow last month so I probably won't be riding (seriously) the rest of the summer anyways, which gives me some time to think about it all.

[ols]

As an also tall rider, I too am always on the lookout for large frames. An "off the shelf" option not yet mentioned for you to consider is the Rivendell Rambouillet. Its available as a 68cm frame (27inches!) and as a complete bike (though I'm not sure how much.) Here's a link:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_rambouilletframes.html

I also recently saw a 68cm Rivendell Atlantis roadbike (off the shelf) on eBay that didnt sell 2 days ago. He was asking $700 for the complete bike. You could always shoot him an e-mail and see if it's still around. Item was 3690702864

Neither of these is a race bike. But they're both really nice. I do love Serotta as well and you'd definitely get an outstanding bike fit exactly for you. These are just some other options while you're figuring out what feels like a good fit.

[flydhest]

Jim,

$3000 is a good sized budget. Much less need for compromise. An example works the following way. The MSRP on the C-III is $1500. The AlphaQ (I don't think the Reynolds have a long enough steerer) is around $350 and a custom steel fork would be anywhere from $150 to $250. A Campy Centaur full build kit (with no skimping) is something like $1300 on the high side. That puts you at 1500+350+1300=3150 before taking into account the fact that you likely won't have to pay retail. I suspect if you walk into your bike shop and say "here's what I want, what can you do for me, I'd like to keep it at $2500" they could probably work for you.

As much as I love my Serottas, they are not the cheapest bike going. However, the lowest you'll likely find a really good custome steel frame (without fork) is in the 1200 range, so, while $300 ain't squat, it's not going to get you back to your original budget. Usually, when stock bikes come in around $1500, they have a mix of components and some no name stuff in some places to save money.

The setup I describe above would be a rig worth crying for. It is, in my view, a bike where you could pay more, but you wouldn't get much more out of the bike.

I think 28c tires are often overlooked in terms of ride comfort. With a properly fitted steel road bike, 36 spoke wheels, and 28c tires, you will notice a world of difference over the Cannondale Mtn bike.

[Ahneida Ride]

Big Bad Jim

1.) a joke Jim, 63 is toooooo small for you. suggest 65-67

1.5) look at the redwood bikes at the Rivendell site.

2.) It's a crap shoot. You need a great fitter. !!!!!!!!!!!
Incidently, my Legend is perfect.

3.) Upgrade fork only. Save $$$$$. Upgrade components later.

4.) No No No No !!!!! A Properly built Custom Serotta can EASILY
handle you. NO PROBLEMO !!!!!! My bike can easily take 260 lb.

5.) I went 64 Legend Custom Rapid Tour.
.. Never looked back. Finding a frame in your
size capable of bearing your weight is a low Probability event.
You may be wasting $$$$$$$$ by NOT going custom.

Serotta can build an excellent Clysdale frame. Locate a fitter
you can work with. Serotta needs to know you weight and intended
use of the bike ( Racing, Touring , etc ) Talk to Kelly Bedford at Serotta
a true Gentleman, Kelly knows it all.




There was a recent thread on large frames started by William. It
contains a wealth of information.

PM me, if I can be of additional assistance.

Best Regards,

[flydhest]

Thus spake Ahneida.

[Peter]

Well, you've certainly picked the two most qualified/competent frame companies to address your extraordinary needs.

My concern with Serotta would be a fitter that has little experience with tall riders. I don't know whether they merely measure you and plug the numbers into a calculator, but that could be a little too simple in my view.

Zinn certainly speaks from personal experience in the tall rider department, and with that in mind, I think he's more qualified to assess the proper size for you. But I will temper that by saying Serotta is most likely qaulifed enough not to do you wrong.

Definitely consider 180mm cranks. Don't forget wide bars as well.

And since you're large as well, consider having the rear end spaced for 135mm hubs instead of 130mm. This will reduce the offset of the rear rim, making for a longer lasting wheel. Also consider requesting clearances for 25-28mm tires. These will go a long way towards wheel longevity and a comfortable ride. Tire weight of the wider rubber is virtually irrelevant.

I'm also another one to recommend you investigate the Rivendell Redwood. My only caveat is Grant Petersen tends to size bikes somewhat larger than typical for a more upright than normal riding position, and it's something that doesn't appeal to me. If I were to buy a Redwood, I would measure myself ( you could use the procedure on the Zinn website) and ignore Rivendell's recommendation, or at least get rid of the long stem. At $1500, you'd be well within your budget.

If you go the custom route, you could always keep the price down by spec'ing a Shimano 105 or equivalent group. It's quality stuff for the budget minded. For you, all your focus should be on that proper fit.

Carbon won't last under your size, so ignore that option. A properly fitting frame is key for providing comfort. Wider tires are also extremely effective, which would steer you towards the Redwood with it's generous clearances for such stuff.

I highly recommend you pay for the Serotta fitting, just to see where their numbers fall, then contact both Zinn and Rivendell for more education. If any of them size you above the 63cm frames you found too small, then you know you can trust them to fit you properly.

[Brons2]

Well I talked to the Rivendale folks. They have an orange Rambouliet 68cm frame for $990. It seems like the price got real high real fast though when I started adding on stuff like the Ultegra set, wheels and the STI shifters. We were talking near $2800 with build costs ($210) and shipping ($100). For that price, I may rather want to get a custom build Serotta.

He also suggested that I might want to try building the thing myself. I am pretty mechanically inclined. I have rebuilt engines in my car and jetski before. What is the degree of difficulty on this? Also what is a good source of components online?

[Brons2]

Another question, is it possible to pick up an assembled Serotta in Colorado if you are visiting? I am coming up sometime this fall whenever Texas plays CU in football. If I take it immediately back to Texas, do I still have to pay Colorado sales taxes?

I am thinking perhaps it is the local shops that do the final assembly.

[flydhest]

Despite the name of the models, etc., Serottas are actually made in Saratoga Springs, NY.

go figure.

[pale scotsman]

Brons2 - I'd go with the Orange Rambouillet, nitto bar and stem, and order a build kit from Colorado Cyclist or Excel sports in Colorado. You can buy an Ultegra triple kit for ~ $920 and have them build you a sweet pair of 36 spoke Mavic Open Pros.

That's what I did with a Romulus frameset posted in the custom gallery. They are great riding frames, especially for long distance comfort and it will be much faster than your ATB.

If you want something racier then you can't go wrong with a Colorado III or the like.

[Dekonick]

You can save $$ by going with a mix of components - centaur and veloce mix - or just veloce. Its a little heavier than centaur, but its still good quality. I would rather have a veloce components on my bike than ultegra (nothing wrong with ultegra, I just prefer how campy shifts)

You are in Austin - from what I read. Try Richardson's Bike Mart. They are a large outfit, and also a Serotta dealer.

as far as bike build up, I am no expert BUT I did see a LeMond bike that had the rear spokes practically eaten in half because the rear der. had not been properly limited. The headset and bars were also loose. (and this was a prof. build! - wow!)

You can probably buy your components online, (full groupo) and bring em in and have em installed on your custon Serotta Colorado frame...

Good Luck!

[Larry]

Hey Jim,

This is Larry in Dallas.
Come up to Richardson and visit the Richardson Bike Mart.
You will get an education by browsing the store for several hours.
You will get the ultimate in selection and service....... I really mean
this!!! This is the best shop in the area......hands down.

I think that you are a prime candidate for a Colorado III. I saw a CSi for a guy that was over 7 feet tall. Ben Serotta was the first person to design him
a bike that really fit. It was a work of art. This guy was well over 300 lbs.

They do sell Serottas at Bike Mart, and they will do an excellent fit with at least 3 excellent fit specialists. It would be worth a one day visit.
Call Woody at 972-231-3993.

[Brons2]

Brons2 - I'd go with the Orange Rambouillet, nitto bar and stem, and order a build kit from Colorado Cyclist or Excel sports in Colorado. You can buy an Ultegra triple kit for ~ $920 and have them build you a sweet pair of 36 spoke Mavic Open Pros.

That's what I did with a Romulus frameset posted in the custom gallery. They are great riding frames, especially for long distance comfort and it will be much faster than your ATB.

If you want something racier then you can't go wrong with a Colorado III or the like.

I looked for your pics in the custom gallery, but did not find them. Is this on the Rivendell site or here?

[Ahneida Ride]

Jim,

It ain;t just about the size of the bike. Serotta will custom tune the
bike for you. Tubes are selected to accomodate your weight and
reflect how you desire the bike to feel.

Question like, how are are the handle bars ? Seat Post Hight ? Top Tube
Length ? all need to be addresed. If TT is too long you will be stretched out. Perhaps you perfer this position, and then maybe not.

I know zippo about fitting, but I can assure you that the final product
is quite exemplary if properly executed.

Garbage in = garbage out.

Step 1 is to locate a Serotta Fitter with previous big guy experience.
Then talk with Kelly. Kelly is a rather imposing individual also.

[Needs Help]

If I take it immediately back to Texas, do I still have to pay Colorado sales taxes?

Yes. And, even if you didn't you would still have to pay tax on it in Texas. On anything you buy over the internet or through mail order where you don't pay sales tax in some other jurisdiction, you have to pay the equivalent of the sales tax in Texas.


Also what is a good source of components online?

Excel Sports, Colorado Cyclist, Branford Bike. You should be able to get your Serotta dealer to match any online prices.

[pale scotsman]

I looked for your pics in the custom gallery, but did not find them. Is this on the Rivendell site or here?


Here you go. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=2059

[djg]

from the Serotta (or to advocate the Rambo over the Serotta), I think that you could manage to build the frame up yourself--especially if you're mechanically inclined, use a decent guide, and take your time--and that this will save you considerable coin over Rivendell's package price. It will also be a good way to learn a fair bit about what's on your bike and how it works. Make sure that Rivendell preps the frame for you so that it's ready to build (bb shell chased and faced, for example). You might also want to spring for a headset and hs installation from them, as this is typically done with a special (expensive and little-used) tool (although folks use home-made solutions too) and it's one thing you don't want to botch.

For that matter--the build it in the garage with various sale parts to keep the price down--can work with Serotta or any custom frame as well as it can with the Rambo.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Brons2]

I think I have decided that no matter what I choose I am going to build it up myself. I have some friends who worked on the Yellow Bike project here in Austin and they have given me quite a bit of encouragement. The other encouragement is the amount of markup on components at the bike shops, it's really high. As someone mentioned, the whole Ultegra Triple kit is $920 at Colorado Cycles, and the fiber upgrade is $160 more which I would probably get. Then, if I get the Ramboulliet, I will have a custom fit job, if I get a Serotta or other custom bike then the fit will already be tailored to me.

[Brons2]

Oh by the way, in case you were curious, the Yellow Bike Project was an attempt to build a crtical mass of free bikes that could be used to get you where you needed to go, and then when you got there, you would just leave it for the next person. The bikes were normally cruiser style bikes and would be spray painted yellow.

[alembical]

On of coolest things I have seen is Copenhagen Denmark's version of the "Yellow bike" project. They have these cruiser, single speed (not fixed) type bikes everywhere. To finance the project, they sell advertisments on the disc wheels. These bikes are cheap, but it is so nice. They cost a coin (can't remember the denomination), but when you are done with the bike and lock it up anywhere, you get the coin back. There are heavy fines for taking the bikes out of the city, and the bikes are not really worth much anyway. What a nice way to cruise around the city.

Alembical

[NateM]

Jim,
The only frame or bike on the mkt that I know of that might fit you 'off the rack' is a Rivendell Redwood. Of course you would have to fit it.With your size and weight you need a custom bike and components.Having just gone through the process of helping my 6'8", 260 lb nephew purchase a custom BIG bike,here are some of my observations. I would personally suggest all steel with the possibility of a carbon fork. Given that you are on a budget that frowns on $3k+,your choices need to be selective. Zinn at zinncycles.com could build a steel bike for around $3300.Serotta would also be around $3k+. Carl Strong at strongframes.com could bring it in slightly under $3k. No matter what you buy, a very detailed, educated in big bike fitting needs to be done. There is no doubt in my mind that Kelly at Serotta can build you a very nice bike but he can only do a competent job if he has all your measurements and honest intents on usage.That goes for any builder.Fit is key to a great bike and worth the money many times over.I would ask any potential fitter about his or her experiences with extra large riders .Try to get some references and contact the riders that were serviced to see how things worked out for them.Custom cranks will be an important part of frame design and can be had through Zinn at www.zinncycles.com or www.hscycle.com I would suggest at least contacting them and discussing this. The thought of you being restricted to 180 cranks is..lets just say inefficient. Longer cranks,choice of pedals, along with bigger feet can result in bad toe overlap and heel clearance problems if not addressed, so be aware of these critical measurements. Wheels for someone your size are also somewhat different.My nephew used Peter White at peterwhitecycles.com to build a set of 36 hole XT hubs, laced 3 cross to Mavic 717 rims.Not the lightest setup but both comfortable and built to last.Carl Strong built my nephews bike,a 66cm sloper,all steel w/disc brakes,9sp Ultegra,aprox 23lbs.It's a rocketship.Good luck and ask as many questions as possible in your quest.

[Larry]

Brons 2,

I would spend the $120.00 or slightly more to get an experienced serviceman at a bike shop to build it perfectly.
For a bike of this quality you want it to have no issues.
You want it to be exactly right, especially at 30 mph.

[BigMac]

One thing you need to be aware of with Rivendell sizing is that frame sizes are listed by measuring ST from center BB-top of TT @ seatlug. Most frames, including Serotta are measure c-c thus a 68cm Riv is roughly 66.5cm Serotta. Honestly, ST length is the least important frame dimension, imo, check out TT length, STA(or setback), cs length and front center for proper fit. Redwood (big Rambulliet) is a very nicely constructed frame and relatively stoudt for a production model. If you're riding is limited to Texas, especially the Dallas area and you have even a marginally smooth cadence, i suspect the Redwood is about the best value in a quality frame you will find. I would have just 2 reservations if I were in your shoes; the quill stem and frame durability.

You are obviously a very large rider, considerably bigger than your average rider and if you have large upper body build you likely generate excessive torque on bars/stem. I am 30lbs your junior, albeit very large and powerful upper body build, and I have bent my share of forged alloy stems. I love the threadless stems and particularly a custom fillet brazed steel stem, they are far less prone to flex/bending than most production gear, particularly the current plethora or weight weenie sub 200g stems which should be avoided by anybody your size (actually they should be avoided by everybody but let's not go there right now). The Redwood uses a threaded fork-quill stem setup, it may be fine for your size if you are gentle on torqueing bars and you avoid stem extensions beyond 11cm max. The other alternative is Riv sells a Nitto-produced lugged steel stem which is apparently extremely stiff and strong, although extraordinarily pricey to boot (>$200). Salsa also offers a TIG welded cr-mo stem but it has minimal quill length and is very soft flexing, ime. Of course Serotta and most other builders are now employing threadless setups in which case I would suggest you purchase a custom filet brazed steel stem of any necessary length, be sure builder of said stem is aware of your size, strength and mass.

The frame durability may be a moot point if you are remotely smooth pedaller and ride in relative flatlands of Texas. If you intend to ride competitively, likely sprinting would be your strength or travel with bike for riding in more vertically challenging terrain, I suspect the Redwood is insufficiently stout in bottom-end. I have personally ridden a 64cm Rambu and honestly felt the lateral movement at BB was sufficient enough while climbing that frame would have failed within couple thousand miles. This however does not make it a bad choice for you riding the flatlands, I could have spun all day on flat ground and enjoyed the frames ability to smooth weathered roadways, its just not a suitable climbing or sprinting frame for bigger, heavier riders. Frame builders must make certain choices for production bikes. If one were to build a production frame intended for a rider your size performing out of saddle sprints or hard climbs, the poor "diminutive average" rider fitting same size frame, weighing 200lbs would likely feel beat up, unable to produce a desirable amount of frame flex. I suspect the 68cm Riv production frames were built around former Riv employee Bhima who stood at least 6'6" but weighed maybe 185lbs...soaked through in the rain ;) If you can find a demo Redwood/Rambu to take for a 30-40 minute spin, that would be an invaluable experience, otherwise frankly anything short of a full custom frame is a crapshoot. FWIW: Serotta makes great bigboy frames, probably the best anywhere, if you can afford it they are your safest choice.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Peter]

The $990 quoted for the Rambouillet is a bargain since the price has been increased to $1300.

I recommend you choose a Shimano 105 group versus Ultegra to keep the price down. Since you don't have a lot of mechanical experience with bikes (even though your are mechanically inclined) 105 would be better to "learn" on because mistakes wouldn't be as expensive to make.

Rivendell might be limited in the parts they can offer you, so another option is to purchase the Redwood from them and purchase the parts group from a local shop, and ask the local shop to assemble it.

As far as avoiding taxes, I believe you'd have to purchase it from the shop and have them ship it to you Some states already have agreements with other states to collect and remit sales tax, so you may wind up doing so anyway.

[Brons2]

Well I went out and did some more shopping around today. My first encouraging stop was at Nelos Pro Cycles, a shop that does nothing but custom cycles. They are the Merlin dealer in town, so they deal in a lot of high end bikes. However, they carry frames from 48 other small manufacturers. Well, I mean they can order them anyways. They said they could probably get me into a custom Guru for around 1500-1800 but they wanted to fit me. So I scheduled a fit for Monday. It will cost $65 but it would be applied to the purchase price if I were to buy a bike from them.

My next stop was Freewheeling Cycles, where I bought my mountain bike. They had some of the really expensive 63cm Treks, so I thought I'd just kick them around to see what the 5000 series was like. They are nice bikes, but too small for me of course. But then they informed me that they had an older (but new, never been used) 66cm Cannondale frame built with brand new Ultegra components. Right away when I sat on this bike I knew it was the right size for me. When the seat was raised to a height that gave me full extension, it was about the same height as the handlebars, looking more like a normal setup that I see other riders on. It really fit me well and I was very comfortable on the bike. The all-aluminum frame definitely has a stiffer ride, however, something that was not lost on me. I did however ride the bike on some extremely rough roads around campus in Austin, to be fair.

I had thoughts of buying the bike on the spot, but I don't imagine that 66cm bikes are flying off the shelves. The $1550 pricetag seems pretty fair considering the full-on Ultegra component set...but lower would always be nice. They don't seem to know whether the frame was built in 99 or 2000 but they indicated it had been there at the shop for quite some time until recently they had built it up into a full bike. I have some concerns about warranty issues on Cannondales being that their company has been in some turmoil. And of course, I was hoping for a slightly more compliant ride. The Treks seemed to handle the extremely rough road surfaces a bit better, not that I could buy one to fit me correctly.

Still, all in all I was very positively impressed by the bike and I am definitely thinking about going back Monday and buying it. My one thought is that maybe I should go through with the fitting at Nelos in order to get their recommendations. Perhaps a steel custom built would be better considering the miles of rock chip over tar construction that I tend to come across in my rides. Or maybe some of the harshness of the Cannondale could be tamed by just using a slightly wider tire as some have suggested.

Oh well, I have all weekend to think about it.

[Brons2]

One thing you need to be aware of with Rivendell sizing is that frame sizes are listed by measuring ST from center BB-top of TT @ seatlug. Most frames, including Serotta are measure c-c thus a 68cm Riv is roughly 66.5cm Serotta. Honestly, ST length is the least important frame dimension, imo, check out TT length, STA(or setback), cs length and front center for proper fit. Redwood (big Rambulliet) is a very nicely constructed frame and relatively stoudt for a production model. If you're riding is limited to Texas, especially the Dallas area and you have even a marginally smooth cadence, i suspect the Redwood is about the best value in a quality frame you will find. I would have just 2 reservations if I were in your shoes; the quill stem and frame durability.


I live in Austin, which is not anywhere near Dallas. (where does that misperception keep coming from...?) It's pretty hilly around here, although not mountainous. I don't come out of my saddle that much on climbs, but I do shift down on the steeper hills.

Also, for the folks that suggested Richardson Bike Mart, I'm sure they are fine and wonderful people, but I am not driving to the Dallas area to go bike shopping, period. There is a plentiful sufficiency of great bike shops in the Austin area. Plus, I plain just don't like Dallas and avoid it whenever possible.

[Needs Help]

They said they could probably get me into a custom Guru for around 1500-1800 but they wanted to fit me. So I scheduled a fit for Monday. It will cost $65 but it would be applied to the purchase price if I were to buy a bike from them.

Anyone can fit you, but whether they have the experience and expertise to do it correctly is another matter. It's a tough thing to do, but if you value your money, you will go to several fitters and ask them how many years experience they have and why they think they can fit you correctly vs. the guy at the other shop. If you go custom, you are going to wager a lot of money that the fitter was right, so you need to make sure you have a good one.

Good luck.

[flydhest]

I had thoughts of buying the bike on the spot, but I don't imagine that 66cm bikes are flying off the shelves.

lol.

You're exactly right. That c'dale sounds like a great option. The bike shop ought to be motivated to get it out the door if it's been there since 99 or 2000. I'd humbly suggest that it might be a touch over priced after 4-5 years, time does not good things for the market value of frames or components. In terms of functionality, I think it would be great for you.

What kind of wheels did it have? I would still recommend trying it with 28c tires. That will help a lot with the comfort of the ride.

Please keep us updated on your bike quest. I find this very interesting.

[big D]

Hello Brons2

I'm a fellow big boy (really big boy, 6'3" 350+). If you are looking for parts for your big boy bike I would suggests for steering componenets, the New Thomson X4 oversized stem and either the Bontrager Racelite handlebar or Salsa Oversized handlebars. They come with wider widths and are really strong. i would stay away from most of the european bars. Aswell, I would look at a set of 36 spoke wheels, either a set of deep aero rims like Mavic CXP30, Velocity Deep V's or Fusions or Ambroiso FCS (Focus) or strudy touring rims like the DT TX 7.1, Mavic T717 or Velocity Dyads. You can see my bike in the Non Serotta gallery. I think it was the first one posted. I have also included a link to a pic of my bike completed. Any of the good builders will make you bike that works as long as you stay involved in the build process and ask questions. Aswell, be honest with yourself on your intended uses with the bike and you should be fine in the end.

http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1177&password=&sort=1&cat=514&page=7

BigD

[Brons2]

lol.

You're exactly right. That c'dale sounds like a great option. The bike shop ought to be motivated to get it out the door if it's been there since 99 or 2000. I'd humbly suggest that it might be a touch over priced after 4-5 years, time does not good things for the market value of frames or components. In terms of functionality, I think it would be great for you.

What kind of wheels did it have? I would still recommend trying it with 28c tires. That will help a lot with the comfort of the ride.

Please keep us updated on your bike quest. I find this very interesting.

They are actually 2004 Ultregra components (triple). Knowing that this component set costs $920 online, I don't think that $630 is too bad for the frame and assembly. They had it listed at 1700, but had marked it down to 1550 before I even came in the store.

The frame is the Cannondale CAD3, btw.

I am forcing myself to not go buy it today. I think I really want it though. I gave the shop some sob story about not getting paid until next week so they would not pressure me. I am going to do some maintenance on my jetski instead to get my mind off of it.

[William]

Hey Brons2,
Another fellow BIG BOY here. Lot's of good info being funneled your way. Here is a link to the "Big frame" thread I started a while back. If you haven't checked it out yet there is a lot of great information here.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3442

Best of luck!

William

[dmsi]

TA makes plenty of longer cranks, peter white cycles is a good supplier for these 180, 185 etc. No need for custom even though the TA's are not cheap.

[jrm]

Go get the cannondale. That's what I rode in a 63 before I got my c3 and it was a good bike. I would highly recommend a carbon post and some stiff wheels since the frame is so stiff poor wheels will be noticeable right away. That was all I upgraded on mine and rode it for years. Good luck. :banana:

[Brons2]

Go get the cannondale. That's what I rode in a 63 before I got my c3 and it was a good bike. I would highly recommend a carbon post and some stiff wheels since the frame is so stiff poor wheels will be noticeable right away. That was all I upgraded on mine and rode it for years. Good luck. :banana:

That's just what I did today, I went over there after closing time (I thought they closed at 6 not 5) and asked to ride it again. They were gracious enough to let me in and ride it again for a few minutes. I rode the bike over as many expansion joints and potholes that I could find. I decided that with the carbon fork it didn't really ride that bad. So I offered them a little less and told them I wanted free pedals too and they agreed, so I wrote them a check, they looked it over in the shop and them I was on my way! Yay.

Here's a breakdown of the bike.
Cannondale CAAD3 66cm frame, aluminum.
Brakes/STI shifters: Ultegra
Front/Rear derailers: Ultegra
Front sprocket: Ultegra Triple
Rear casette: Ultegra 9 speed (ratios unknown)
Front hub: Ultegra
Rear Hub: Ultegra
Front Fork: Unlabeled carbon fiber.
Wheels: Mavic Open Pro, 32 spokes.
Tires: Continental Ultra Gator Skin 700x25c
Handlebars: Ritchey Logic Comp, aluminum T-6061
Seat Post: Icon, aluminum.
Seat: Bontrager, model unknown.

On a side note, I'm glad I got the triple after riding it up some steep hills this evening. I did not use the lowest range but it's nice to know that it's there.

Yes I know that I did not get the 36 spoke wheels, but we'll see how these ones hold up. The tires seem fine, and I am not in a hurry to change anything after dropping a bunch of cash today. Future upgrades might include a wireless speed computer, longer cranks and clip in pedals (I requested lightweight pedals with toe clips because it's what I am used to and I do not own those clip in shoes and did not want to make the investment today.

Overall, I am very pleased so far. Now to go ride somewhere far away ;-)

[Tom]

Down the road a piece if you do decide you want another bike and custom is in the cards, you'll be able to relate what you like and don't like from this one to get a perfect ride. Unless, of course, you discover that what you're now riding is the perfect ride, in which case you've scored a coup.

Here's hoping for many good miles.

[weisan]

Hey Jim,

Sounds like you just got yourself a great bike. :hello:
I lived in Austin too and is a regular visitor of this forum. Sorry I am late in the game in following your thread but it looks like you've been getting the typical high-quality reception from folks here. I think overall you made a wise choice with the Cannondale purchase. Let's hook up and ride sometimes.

For more riding choices, I recommend that you check out the ACA website:
http://www.austincycling.org/rides.html
They have organized rides every weekend.

Boy, with your big size, I look forward to sucking your wheels...
(I can't believe I just said that!!!) :o

weisan

[jrm]

Great choice. Remember you don't have to go broke to enjoy road biking. Have fun with your Cann. See ya John. :banana:

[Brons2]

Hey Jim,

Sounds like you just got yourself a great bike. :hello:
I lived in Austin too and is a regular visitor of this forum. Sorry I am late in the game in following your thread but it looks like you've been getting the typical high-quality reception from folks here. I think overall you made a wise choice with the Cannondale purchase. Let's hook up and ride sometimes.

For more riding choices, I recommend that you check out the ACA website:
http://www.austincycling.org/rides.html
They have organized rides every weekend.

Boy, with your big size, I look forward to sucking your wheels...
(I can't believe I just said that!!!) :o

weisan


Thanks for the tip on the site, it's great for rides around here.

I agree that this is a pretty high quality forum. I applaud Serotta for letting so much discussion of other bikes go on here. Maybe I will end up buying a custom at some later point, I just didn't feel like it was warranted at this juncture, although I was willing to do it if it had been my only good option.

Well, I am about to head down to the Veloway, or ride along S. Mopac. That is if it doesn't rain....looks kind of threatening here!

email me offline at jim.bronson@gmail.com and let me know when you are going riding. notice that, I am not an expert! beginner to intermediate would be about my skill level. I am good for 40-50 miles and then I start to lose momentum, although I have done 100 mile rides.

[Brons2]

Well I went to the Veloway here in town and immediately something didn't seem right. It felt like the tires were out of balance like what happens with your car when the wheel weights aren't right. After a few circuits around the course, I kept looking at my rear wheel and it seemed like it might be out of true. So I stopped and put the bike upside down and spun it by hand. Unfortunately my fears were confirmed. So now my wheel is already wobbly at 11 miles. :crap: :crap:

Maybe this was just part of the break in process. But what I fear is that this wheel is not enough for me. Better break out the 36 spoke wheel, I guess. I'm going to ask them at the shop if I can pay the difference for a more stout back tire.

Also, the free pedals I got suck. My feet are really wide and they were rubbing against the cranks. I need ones that come out farther.

Oh well, hopefully this is like getting a sports car and it just needs to be dialed in. I can't lie, it was pretty disheartening when my wheel was bent after a ride around my neighborhood and three laps at the veloway.

My mountain bike wheels are pretty indestructable. I have had one wheel trued once in 12 years. And that was only because I had broken a spoke and not realized it. Oh well.

[weisan]

Hey Jim,

I tend to think that was just the break-in process for the wheels. You've got a good set of wheels to begin with. Maybe it's not such a bad idea to exchange for the 36 spoke count for the extra strength and long-term durability.

It's quite possible that you might find yourself having to do some additional tuning for about a month or so after you got the bike. Actual riding conditions are very different from taking the bike out for spin or two in the parking lot. So, I would say, give yourself a couple more weeks or rides to fully evaluate the whole setup of your bike. The bike shop should offer free tuning for the first year or so.

I usually ride on Saturday morning and do the "dam loop" mostly. But of late, to throw in some variety, I have gone as far as Liberty Hills, and Johnson City. I am planning to ride with the ACA this Saturday. They welcome riders of all abilities and you don't have to be a member to ride. Maybe you will be interested to come join us. Here's the details from their website:

August 7 -- Lake Victor Vector -- 8:00 am
!!NOTE: NEW START LOCATION!! Meet in Bertram at Bertram Elementary School on FM 1174/243 1/2 mile north of SH 29 on the right (parking lot is behind the school) for rides of 26 to 55 miles. Ride the gentle hills of the Edwards Plateau all the way to Lake Victor (where's the lake?). Plenty of cattleguards, hills and very little traffic, combined with LOTS of WOW scenery make this a memorable ride. Patti - 799-4833

Again, I think you made a wise choice with the fat tube C'Dale. See you out there sometimes.
weisan

[flydhest]

Jim,

Even knowing how big you are, I'm shocked that the wheels would have given up the ghost so quickly. This suggests to me that they weren't completely up to snuff, and that the shop should have checked them more carefully before selling them. I understand the timing of your purchase likely made everyone want to get everthing done expeditiously, but nevertheless . . .

So, your options as I see them are as follows. Ask the bike shop if they will retrue/retension the wheel for you. Depending on how screwed up it is the rim may or may not be salvageable. If you go this route (and I would hope they'd do it free) you should do the same type of controlled riding you discussed so that if something goes awry, you're not stuck in the hinterlands.

To move up to 36, you'd need a whole new wheel. You could probably ebay the hub or see if the shop would give you some credit toward a new wheel. Likely not looking at much more than $50 coming in, though. A 105 or Ultegra 36-hole hub laced to some CXP-33s could be the ticket. These have a V-shaped rim and as such are a bit stronger than the OPs. Ahneida Ride--who is about your size--loves his that are like this but different hub. In my view, the benefit of more expensive/better hubs is longer-wearing hubs and considerations for dish. I don't think actual strength is compromised much with standard issue hubs.

Re: the pedals. . . that's tougher. Sandy has big feet and got some Looks . . . CX-7 maybe??? anyway they have adjustable q-factor (distance of the pedal away from the bike) and these might work. Again, this strikes my as a result of trying to get the deal done, and the shop should have checked it, but such is life.

[BigMac]

Jim:

My apologies for my previous error in thinking you were located in or around Dallas. I had read the Richardson, Tx shops mentioned and errantly assumed you were located in that area. I do know the distance to Austin is substantial, my inlaws are currently in Richardson and my wife grew up in Plano.

Good to hear you got a fine deal on a Cannondale, if it fits well that is a very good choice for someone of your size. i do believe C'dale has discontinued production of such large frames, you buying an NOS model should have no negative impact, in fact I would say you are a very fortunate fellow.

The wheel issue is fairly common one for folks of all sizes, at least if wheel is poorly built as I suspect. The spokes should have been pretensioned during build -- brought to full tension and trued, then backed off and retensioned and trued -- which I suspect was not done. Your ride simply stretched the spokes as would have occurred with a properly constructed wheel. It does not sound as if significant damage was done to rim so in truth I suspect the wheel could be properly retrued using existing wheel components and you'll be good to go...up to a point. These wheels are really a compromise for your specific needs that will likely require considerable maintainence, more than I would consider acceptable: retrue every 800-1k miles and periodic replacement of individual driveside rear spokes due to breakage. Solutions? Bontrager Aurora OSB rear rim. Available for $39 at any Trek dealer, some may even stock them, others could order with maybe 1 week wait. This is hands down the best available clincher rim on market -- welded joint, assymetric offset drilling, minimal decals/logos -- and its roughly 1/2 the cost of Open Pro/CXP33. Use DT straight 14 guage spokes laced 3x on driveside, DT 14g (you could opt for butted 14/15/14 but honestly that's a few cents more per spoke for absolutely zero benefit) laced 2x on left side w/Bontrager rim, the result will be nearly identical spoke length and tension on each side which equals a very torsionally strong and durable rear wheel. This wheel should be stronger torsionally than a traditional 36H rim of similar mass laced with similar spokes. The next step up would be a Bontrager Fairlane(or Maverick as they have recently changed model names but design is unchanged) OSB 36H rear rim. A bit wider and heavier rim (525g or thereabouts), still welded at joint and assymetric drilled but would require a new 36H rear hub to replace your current 32H unit. Personally, I would opt for the 32H setup, however you will need a much more skilled wheelsmith to perform the build than the one who laced the current setup. Speak to members of local cycling clubs for good recommendations of skilled local wheelsmith's (do NOT go mailorder!), I'm sure you will find at least one in a city like Austin.

Your pedal issues could be a bit more troublesome. The best solution would be to have a friend observe you from behind as you pedal at a normal cadence. Alternatively, use a video camera set at hs shutter on a tripod placed again just behind bicycle just left or right of rear wheel with bike on a stationary trainer. Be sure you are sufficiently stretched and warmed up, pedalling in a normal cadence. Now my suspicion is that you are pronating (or supinating as I forget which is which) wherein the ankle is rolling inward at bottom of stroke. This is a biomechanical issue that could be related to saddle height and/or fitness, strength or physiological issues. If your observer or video camera shows lateral ankle movement, this is in fact your problem, not the pedals per say. Solutions? Lowering saddle a bit can help, generally as your fitness improves, some stretching/yoga is highly recommended as well, you will again want to elevate your saddle for more efficient pedalling stroke. You may also need to experiment with orthotics or arch supports. I would recommend you avoid using running shoes while riding, the elevated foam midsoles may exacerbate your problems. If you are not using toe clips with your platform pedals (or even if you are) try a pair of PowerStraps and use the thinnest soled shoes you have...I prefer Mephisto sandals when I use platform pedals -- I find BMX style platforms (MKS brand) with the stubby knubbs hold my feet pretty well -- using PowerStraps for powering up the hills. If you do choose to convert to a clipless style pedal system with requisite shoes, be sure you identify whether an orthodic type device will be required as this will have significant impact on shoe fit choices. Clipless pedals are generally considerably higher q and stackheight (distance from pedal axle center to shoe platform) than platform pedals, with one exception; the Time brand road pedals. If you truly do require high Q pedals, avoid Time and probably look at Speedplay. They offer a model Zero that allows you to limit float rotation (could be very beneficial if you have lots of lateral movement) but they do have a very disconected feel which takes some acclimating and are very wide Q. Look also offers a model with an adjustable q that can be very wide if needed, the balance of pedals are all pretty similar (moderately wide q compared to traditional quill or platform pedals). The last solution could be to add a 1-2mm stainless washer between pedal and crank arm, this however should be a very last case solution given your size/weight to avoid bending of pedal axle. Best of luck to you.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[weisan]

I remembered reading an article in Velonews about how Cannondale put their frames through extrememly vigorous stress test.

One interesting thing mentioned in the story is about the C'Dale frame custom-built for Shaq O' Neal deemed to be practially indestructible. :p

[Brons2]

BigMac, I think you are correct in your assessment of the build quality of the wheels. When I took it in at lunchtime, we found a spoke that was very loose. This should not happen after 11 miles of riding. I doubt that they took the time to properly pretension those spokes, as you say.

As for the shoe problems, I think they will be cured by not wearing crosstraining tennis shoes when I ride! I currently have the toe-clip style of pedals. When I took my bike in at lunch, I looked at some cycling shoes and clip-in pedals that I think would be a much better long term idea. They are much narrower than my tennis shoes and I think would eliminate the crank clearance issues.

[Brons2]

Well they were able to true up the wheel pretty well, which makes me suspect that they did not build it well in the first place. I took a nice ride on Thursday, and will take another tomorrow. If all goes well I'll take a longer ride on Saturday.

I also picked up some clip-ins, mountain bike style though. They were pretty inexpensive, 45 for the pedals and 62 for the shoes. Man what a difference over my toe clips and tennis shoes!

[weisan]

Hi Jim,

How's you and the bike doing?

I was out on 360 this morning. The weather is awesome, nice and cool. My wife took the kids to a play, so I practically got until 2 pm to ride all I want.
It's been a long time since I don't feel rushed into completing a ride prematurely. I got about 85 miles in today, had to stop twice due to leg cramps, but still I am pretty happy to be able to get the mileage in. Let's ride together sometimes. I would really love that.

regards,
weisan

[Chief]

Jim,

check out the following on ebay. it may be just the frame/fork that you are looking for at a good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22681&item=3692896492&rd=1

[Needs Help]

That seems like a pretty short top tube (60cm) on that 65 cm frame. I wonder what Jim's top tube length is on his 66cm Cann(is that measured center-center)?

[dbodnar]

As luck would have it I noticed a listing on Ebay this AM for a 67 cm Serotta - have a look:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=3695204295&rd=1

dave

PS I am also a bit above the national average in height - I have two Serottas - a 63 cm and a 64 - both are set up the same and I can't tell the difference unless I look down!

[Jeff N.]

Check out the 67cm Serotta CSi on EBAY currently! Jeff N.