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Onno
12-04-2007, 05:13 PM
Does anybody have any specific information on when VW diesel vehicles will be available again, specifically the Jetta "Sportwagen"? I had read a few months ago that the release would be early in the new year, but I've also heard rumors that the release has been delayed.

davids
12-04-2007, 05:15 PM
The Jetta Sportwagen was the one car MIA from the Car Show that I really am interested in...

Nothing at vw.com either.

Kirk007
12-04-2007, 05:37 PM
I spoke to a dealer about a month ago who was saying this summer/fall but it sounds like even the dealers are having a hard time getting a straight answer

dirtdigger88
12-04-2007, 05:54 PM
the new version of diesel fuel thats at the pumps have car companies scrambling-

the new fuel is messing with things in a big way-

Im not buying another diesel for a bit

Jason

TMB
12-04-2007, 06:10 PM
My understanding is summer 2008.

I couldn't wait any more and bought another gasser.

P's me off - I wanted another diesel.

What I understood the problem to be is the size of the NA market - supposedly diesel's in NA represent about 3% of VW worldwide sales - so VW NA is having a lot of trouble getting confirmed delivery dates from the engine plants.

rwsaunders
12-04-2007, 06:15 PM
Diesel is $3.70 per gallon here. Loved my 52hp 1981 Rabbit diesel, though. 45mpg city/52 highway with minimum maintenance.

nm87710
12-04-2007, 06:23 PM
Maybe late '08 if at all. Emissions/EPA Cert. is slowing down US introduction. Also expect EPA mileage estimates to probably go down into the high 30's w/more hp & torque. Plus I think it will only be offered in a "loaded" mid 20 priced version - VW's no dummy.

FWIW, If I needed new high mileage wheels for biking/racing( drive ~25K yr) a '08 Honda Fit or '08 Scion xB would be top contenders. You can buy a lot of gas with the ~8K difference between a Sportwagen and those vehicles.

John
'05 TDI Jetta Wagon

P.S. If you want some inside scoop on TDIs(past, present and future) you'll find it here http://forums.tdiclub.com/

Oakely-Erik
12-04-2007, 06:53 PM
I might be mistaken but I was hearing things like 50+ mpg highway and city for the new 2.0 TDI's. This was a while ago so It might be old information. I heard that despite the 40% HP gain and about the same torque gain with the new motor it still gets better MPG then the last generation cars.

Also my VW dealer said they would get their first cars some time in January. I just hope some are still around when I can afford one after I graduate. :).

andy mac
12-04-2007, 07:10 PM
my better half has an '06 2.0 TDI Golf.

goes for ever and them some.

it hammers - she has an auto though :confused: and the turbo lab is pretty wild.

fun car to tool around in.

stevep
12-04-2007, 07:22 PM
i had a 02 jetta tdi...gave it to my kid.

killed in mileage.
was 50+ w/ a roof rack.
ridiculous actually.

it was a standard and it went plenty as fast as i go in cars.
good car.

TMB
12-04-2007, 07:42 PM
My wife drives an 05 Passat Wagen TDI.

I drive an 07 A4 Avant Quattro.

Both take 55 litres of fuel.

Hers is 1.05 / litre she gets about 900 km per tankful, around town.

Mine is $1.20 / litre and I gt about 510 km around town.

She drives like she stole something, I drive like there's an egg under my foot.

Her car is a blast to drive.

I wanted one of those, used ones were selling for more than we paid for hers - new.

JAY33
12-04-2007, 08:34 PM
New to this forum this is my first reply....I own a 03 Jetta and 05 passat wagon both diesels....just spole to the local VW dealership the other day and was advised fall of '08. Also heard the cars may be made in China, that is driving the prices of used diesels up.

Onno
12-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Thanks for all the information, though I'm still pretty confused. It sounds as though late next year, if at all. I don't get it, really. It's hard to imagine VW is holding things back, since I think there is a LOT of pent up demand for these vehicles.

Why would federal and state (California?) regulators be holding these cars back? Doesn't their super high mileage mean that they have less impact on greenhouse gas emissions? And hasn't the particulate problem been addressed by the higher quality fuel now in the US, and new exhaust management? Why are they fine for Europe, and not for the US?

Onno

jwb96
12-04-2007, 10:27 PM
Thanks for all the information, though I'm still pretty confused. It sounds as though late next year, if at all. I don't get it, really. It's hard to imagine VW is holding things back, since I think there is a LOT of pent up demand for these vehicles.

Why would federal and state (California?) regulators be holding these cars back? Doesn't their super high mileage mean that they have less impact on greenhouse gas emissions? And hasn't the particulate problem been addressed by the higher quality fuel now in the US, and new exhaust management? Why are they fine for Europe, and not for the US?

Onno
The US is getting a new engine, isn't it? Anyway, on the car blogs I follow there were reports a few weeks ago about a delay due to reliability of . . . was it the particulate filter? Anyway, something wasn't passing muster.

I really want to want the new TDi sportswagon, but first generation VWs are scary. My girlfriend had a '99 Jetta and had just about anything that could fall off fall off. VW liked to have their customers test things, I guess. VW's reliability is supposed to be up and the wagon is on sale in Europe, so there's hope things have been worked out. But I'm still nervous.

Ahh - here's a link: http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-delays-jetta-tdi-launch.html

Squint
12-04-2007, 10:35 PM
Thanks for all the information, though I'm still pretty confused. It sounds as though late next year, if at all. I don't get it, really. It's hard to imagine VW is holding things back, since I think there is a LOT of pent up demand for these vehicles.

Why would federal and state (California?) regulators be holding these cars back? Doesn't their super high mileage mean that they have less impact on greenhouse gas emissions? And hasn't the particulate problem been addressed by the higher quality fuel now in the US, and new exhaust management? Why are they fine for Europe, and not for the US?

Part of the higher mileage of diesel is due to its higher energy density. That offsets some of the efficiency gains while putting out more particulates and other pollutants like NOx. Even using biodiesel just shifts the pollutants around.

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/the-diesel-dilemma.html

davids
12-05-2007, 08:35 AM
FWIW, If I needed new high mileage wheels for biking/racing( drive ~25K yr) a '08 Honda Fit or '08 Scion xB would be top contenders. You can buy a lot of gas with the ~8K difference between a Sportwagen and those vehicles.

John
'05 TDI Jetta Wagon

P.S. If you want some inside scoop on TDIs(past, present and future) you'll find it here http://forums.tdiclub.com/
Two of the three (currently available) high-mileage, bike-carrying cars that jumped out at me at the car show were the Honda Fit and the Scion xB. The third is the Toyota Prius. The Prius is more along the lines of the Sportwagen - higher mileage, higher cost. But, d@mn, that thing is roomy...

pjm
12-05-2007, 11:02 AM
Honda supposedly has a diesel CR-V in the works. A diesel with Honda reliability sounds like just the ticket.

JAY33
12-05-2007, 12:28 PM
Honda has had a diesel in Europe for some time now...I would think VW doesn't want to see Honda bring a diesel to North America.

musgravecycles
12-05-2007, 12:30 PM
Yeah, rumor on the street is that Honda will have a diesel Odyssey in North America within 2 years. I'm holdin' out for one of those...

JAY33
12-05-2007, 12:43 PM
I read an article in the local rag that the "BIG 3" are throwing tons of money into the R&D of lighter more efficient cars as well as diesels.

pjm
12-05-2007, 01:16 PM
I read an article in the local rag that the "BIG 3" are throwing tons of money into the R&D of lighter more efficient cars as well as diesels.
Yeah, 10 years behind the Japanese and Euros.

Pastashop
12-05-2007, 01:57 PM
http://www.fruitlands.net/tdi/

No connection, etc.

goonster
12-05-2007, 05:20 PM
Yeah, rumor on the street is that Honda will have a diesel Odyssey in North America within 2 years. I'm holdin' out for one of those...

Don't hold your breath. Seems like Honda and Toyota have been threatening this for ten years, or so.

musgravecycles
12-05-2007, 09:32 PM
Yeah I know, and to make matters worse Toyota already makes some of the worlds most reliable diesel truck engines (featured in the venerable Hilux' and Land Cruisers). Oh how I wish I could get my hands on one of those for my FJ-62...

yarsec
12-06-2007, 03:04 PM
Honda is releasing a diesel accord for MY2009. Supposedly larger diesels for the Ridgeline and Odyssey will follow a year or two later.

New diesels are having such a hard time coming to the states because of our emission laws. The new Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards are actually stricter than Europe's standards. We finally got clean, low sulfur diesel last fall, but that does not fully solve the emission problems. Urea injection solves it, but its costly, complicated, and the government does not like it due to high maintenance and the ability to not fill up the Urea canister when required and having your car run dirty.

The Honda diesels will be using a new style catalytic converter without the need for urea injection.

RPS
12-06-2007, 03:29 PM
Don't hold your breath. Seems like Honda and Toyota have been threatening this for ten years, or so.Don't know much about Toyota except that they seem to be more committed to hybrids, but Honda is serious about diesels in US. Everything I've read suggests that 4-cyl versions (updated version of European engine) will come out first in Accord, Civic, and CR-V and then followed by V-6 versions in Pilot, Odyssey and Ridgeline.

xlbs
12-06-2007, 04:07 PM
they are releasing a new TDI engine for 2008. It has a urea-based filter (Mercedes calls it bluetec) which reduces emissions considerably. the torque and horsepower numbers are elevated.

The (new) US diesels are also supposed to use this new technology.

Try a gander at ww.vwvortex.com for some longer term discussion.

The delay is, from all that I've read and discovered, based on new low-sulphur content regulations for diesel fueling, and therefore emissions too.

I'm driving my third TDI and I get about 55 mpg against imperial gallons. The US gallon is smaller than the imperial gallon, so the mpg ratings get posted differently, but the efficiency is definitely there. So is the torque and related fun factor. An added bonus up here in snowland is the additional traction one gets with a heavier engine up front.

andy mac
12-06-2007, 04:25 PM
Don't know much about Toyota except that they seem to be more committed to hybrids, but Honda is serious about diesels in US. Everything I've read suggests that 4-cyl versions (updated version of European engine) will come out first in Accord, Civic, and CR-V and then followed by V-6 versions in Pilot, Odyssey and Ridgeline.


toyota diesels are very popular in australia. my old man gets around in a turbo diesel prado - similar to the 4runner. great rig.

http://www.toyota.com.au/prado

RPS
12-06-2007, 05:01 PM
toyota diesels are very popular in australia. my old man gets around in a turbo diesel prado - similar to the 4runner. great rig.

http://www.toyota.com.au/pradoYes, a lot of great companies have extensive experience building diesels. The problem now seems to be dealing with latest US diesel emission standards which require much R&D.

Honda seems committed to the "lean" concept more than others IMHO -- it's been part of their company goals for decades (at least since the early 70s as I recall).

Diesel is just the first step ATMO. I expect new engines that will operate much like diesels (i.e. -- Combustion Ignition Engines) but on gasoline are right around the corner. Some are starting to go in that direction already.