Racing Wheels

[Miranda]

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday I was at my LBS getting adjustments made to my roadbike for the State Crit Championship this Sunday and out of curiosity I asked them to weigh my front wheel. My wheelset is originally from my 1986 Peugout Triathlon and they are Wolber Alpine clinchers. I guess my front wheel weighed in at 2.7 pounds which they said was fairly heavy. This is all I have ever raced on!

I have seen where Campy Hyperon or Neutron wheelsets are advertised to help with climbing but can I use them for my race day wheels such as what I really enjoy crits? Would wheels such as these really make a difference? I would probably get a tubular version.

Thank You!

Miranda

[Climb01742]

have you considered Mavic Cosmic Carbones? look at any euro race and when speed matters, these bad boys are there. just a thought.

[Roy E. Munson]

I wouldn't put too much into what the pro's are using. An awful lot of it has to do with sponsorship as opposed to rider preference. And I wouldn't spend too much on wheel's if crits are your game.

[bostondrunk]

velocity sparticus...

[flydhest]

Miranda,

If your front wheel actually weighed 2.7 pounds . . . just about anything will be a sizable difference.

You don't say anything about your weight or price range. The Hyperions are carbon rim lightweights that are outrageously expensive. You'll need to change brake pads as well.

The Neutrons are good solid wheels, a heck of a lot lighter than what you're riding. Pretty good bang for the buck, but I don't think they are necessarily the value leader out there.

I assume that the races you do are mostly flat. Aerodynamics are something to consider as well as weight. For crits, the constant pace changes makes lighter wheels desireable, but if you're likely to be in a break, aero will help more. If your a good wheelsucker who pips people at the line, aero is not worth much. If you're a kilo master who breaks with three laps to go -- get aero.

[gt6267a]

while I am not going to claim that 2.7 lbs is light, maybe there is one detail to clarify: what was weighed? was the it wheel, tire, and skewer(sp)? or, just the wheel? most published weights are for wheel only.

while still probably high compared to a current production wheel, maybe the 2.7lbs is not so crazy once the tire and skewer(sp) are factored in.

[OldDog]

You say the wheels are from a 1986 bike? With newer wheels consider compatibility. I would guess 126 spacing and maybe a freewheel at the back? If your hubs are still good maybe just a rebuild with a lighter rim and spoke.

Or a new Ottrott :D

[chrisroph]

Miranda: The neutrons--particularly the tubular version-- are excellent, strong, light and exceptionally nice racing wheels. I have a set which are my typical race wheels (zipps are for special occasions) and they are wonderful. I found mine used on rbr.com for around $300.

[flydhest]

while I am not going to claim that 2.7 lbs is light, maybe there is one detail to clarify: what was weighed? was the it wheel, tire, and skewer(sp)? or, just the wheel? most published weights are for wheel only.

while still probably high compared to a current production wheel, maybe the 2.7lbs is not so crazy once the tire and skewer(sp) are factored in.

oooh, good point. 1000 gram front wheel without skeweres and tire/tube would be a touch heavy, but about right for a wheel of that era, I should think. Thats 2.2 pounds. .5 pounds is ~250 grams which could easily be tire and tube.

[kong79]

1 pd = 453.6 g so your wheel weighs in at 1224.7 g.

[LowCel]

I would have to say that is pretty heavy. Especially considering that my new every day wheelset weighs 1424 grams for both front and rear. This is with rim strips but without skewers.

BTW, the wheelset is american classic hubs, dt swiss rr1.1 rims and wheelsmith spokes built by Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos. (www.oddsandendos.com ) If you are looking for a nice wheelset for a reasonable price give him a call. This wheelset cost me under $400 shipped.

[flydhest]

I would have to say that is pretty heavy. Especially considering that my new every day wheelset weighs 1424 grams for both front and rear. This is with rim strips but without skewers.

BTW, the wheelset is american classic hubs, dt swiss rr1.1 rims and wheelsmith spokes built by Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos. (www.oddsandendos.com ) If you are looking for a nice wheelset for a reasonable price give him a call. This wheelset cost me under $400 shipped.

you're forgetting Keith's point, that the shop might have weighed the wheel with skewers and tire and tube.

[LowCel]

I was going by the original posters question. "I guess my front wheel weighed in at 2.7 pounds which they said was fairly heavy."

Since he has not stated any differently we are just guessing if we say he was including tire, tube and skewer. I was making a comment based on the information that he provided.

I understand Keith's point but until Miranda either confirms it or denies that this weight is not just for the wheel I thought it would be better to answer his original question.

[Miranda]

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for all the replies! This board is so cool with everyone so knowledgible and passionate about cycling!

My front wheel is as I mentioned a 1986 Wolber Alpine 36 spoke clincher rim with the same year Shimano 105 hubs. The spokes are straight gage and I ride on Michelin 700x23 Pro Race Clinchers. It supposedly weighed in at 2.7 pounds.

My rear wheel has the same rims and spokes but I switched the hub to a 9 speed Campy Chorus back in 1992/3. Again, same tires. I suppose a couple more pounds?

These wheels have been all I have known and raced on. They have always been trouble free and reliable considering the roads and potholes I have ridden and they never need trueing! So! After my visit to my LBS yesterday I thought I should plan on getting a premium set of race wheels since I plan on upgrading my racing category next year anyway and use my Wolbers for training.

Besides loving crits I am trying to be an allround good road/track racer and hills are so far a challenge for me. I grew up and started cycling on the flat and windswept upper plains of South Dakota. So! I'd like a good wheelset to help me not only in crits but climbing too! Wind is no problem but hills are a challenge so far. I'm working on them though!

BTW! I ride on a steel frame am fairly tall at 5'10" and weigh 160 pounds at most. I have read on previous posts that the Mavic Krysriums ride is a little too stiff which so many local racers ride on so I looked into what is offered by Campy such as the Neutron and Hyperon tubular rims. Anything that can help give me an edge and at the same time be a little different from what everyone else has.

Again, Thank You!

Miranda

[gt6267a]

ok, so the front wheels weighs 2.7*453.6 = 1224. Now, take off 220 for the tire, 100 for the tube, and 100 for the skewer* and the weight of the wheel is 804.

So, roughly 1/4 pound heavier than modern wheel bling but still lighter than some.

804 Miranda's Front Wheel
690 Eurus
680 Ksyrium
820 Kosmos

* it sounds like the weighing was a quick, off the bike and onto the scale type deal. i'm still guessing the skewer was weighed with the wheel.

flyd -- well done.

[gt6267a]

miranda -- i forgot to put in my thoughts about your wheel biz. if my math above is right and your front wheel weighs approx 125 grams more than modern stuff, especially when considering the bike is older, groupo is older ... i am wondering if the wheels are a problem.

if the bike is a problem -- and i really question whether working equipment is ever the problem -- than it is probably the whole rig. my serotta weighs 22lbs, in all its glory, and i'm guessing your bike is about the same. dropping 1/4lb on the front and another 1/4 on the back does not do much to the whole equation. plus, wheel bling is very expensive. factor in compatability problems and i'm wondering if a new set of wheels is money well spent on an older bicycle.

[flydhest]

Let's guess 300g difference front to rear, on the no skewer, no cassette, no tire standard.

800 and 1100 makes a 1900g wheelset.

That's 300 to 500 grams more than most modern wheelsets. About a pound--there's a difference you would notice in a race, but I'm not convinced it would make all the difference in the world. Still, if it was me and I was still racing, it would seem like a good idea.

Miranda, do you have a budget in mind? At 5'10 160, I would put you in the middle range for amateur cyclists, but small in my book.

Price is going to matter a lot, but a simple, durable CHEAP set of wheels could be Chorus 32H hubs, 14/17 front spokes, 14/15 rear. A bit more would be to get Record to get 28 spokes. Velocity and Sun make inexpensive tubular rims that are 28 Hole. This is all off-the-shelf stuff that is very serviceable. For race only wheels at your weight, 28 spokes in a standard setup should be very sturdy.

Neutrons come highly regarded. I've ridden them and think they are great. I'm not a big Ksyrium fan, but many here are. I'd vote no . . . but then, I don't get a vote.

If light is a priority and money is no object . . . wheee, the possibilities are myriad.

Keith's note above about compatibility and where wheels fit into the whole bike, is a point worth considering.

[Miranda]

Weighing my front wheel was really quick just taking it off my roadbike with everything on it including skewers. Thank you for the quick comparison! It puts things in perspective!

[MarinRider]

Miranda,

Nothing will make you feel, if not go, faster in races than a pair of strong, light,tubular racing wheels. I went overboard on racing wheels over the last two years and following are some quick thoughts:

Campy Neutron / Nucleons are wonderful feeling and strong wheels. To me they feel similar to conventional lace-up 32 spoke wheels but are just much lighter. They accelerate well coming out of corners and on jumps. They are my normal racing wheels and in 2+ years of riding they only have only required minor tuning. If you get the tubular version, you'll need to remove the tires to true the wheels.

Reynolds Stratus DV are deep dish carbon wheels that are relatively light. They ride much stiffer than my other wheels but not overly harsh. I use these for special flat races or time trials.

Velomax Ascend Carbon are my hilly race wheels. They are amazingly light and have stayed true over 10+ races this year. They also accelerate very quickly. As with all carbon wheels they don't brake well. I experimented with numerous brake pads but found none came close to matching the braking feel of conventional rims. You must pay a lot of attention descending on carbon rims. Some pads on carbon rims also make horrible noises. IMO, however, the joy of climbing on light wheels are worth the extra attentiveness.

I also have a pair of Campy Hyperons. They are simple works of art. I use them only for speical hill climb races like Mt Washington. They ride similar to Neutrons but are much lighter still. Too nice to race for other races.

Good luck at state this Sunday.

[vaxn8r]

Campy Neutron / Nucleons

Reynolds Stratus DV are deep dish carbon wheels that are relatively light.

Velomax Ascend Carbon are my hilly race wheels.

I also have a pair of Campy Hyperons.

WOW!!!

[Miranda]

MarinRider double wow! You do have the wheels! Would you be willing to loan me some wheels? :) Since the State Crit Championship is this Sunday, time is running out and my old reliable wheels are fairly heavy should I ride my 1992 Specialized Tri-Spoke Tubulars with 9 speed titanium cogs for the crit? They are in immaculate condition and I have only used them for triathlons and time trials.

If I remember correctly back in 1992/1992 while watching the Norwest Cup in downtown Minneapolis the Coor's Light Bicycle Racing team rode their Serotta's with Specialized Tri-Spokes during the crit. The Coor's Light Team could probably have replaced those Tri-Spokes more easily than me if they crashed and wrecked them with their budget.

Would my Tri-Spokes be a better alternative for racing on than just time trials? Are they lighter? Are they durable to withstand a crash? With a total of 8 years of racing I have been really lucky and crashed only once and that was on the track this year but there was nothing I could do in that incident. One never knows.

[va rider]

Miranda -

check out the Campy Eurus, very nice all around wheelset. Medium profile, Record hubs, I have 'em and love 'em.

Also, Colorado Cyclist has the Campy Neutrons on sale (great price) plus free shipping. Pretty good deal.

Finally, Senior Jerk was a pro racer, if you want some good advice, go right to the horse's mouth....

good luck, lots of good choices.

[shinomaster]

how much do you want to spend?? People are recommending wheels priced at $2000 a pair, and $300...

You could buy a nice new race bike for $2000...

Or you could get a decent set of bontrager race lights for $350, or Campy Zondas..

Neuutrons are nice, but I don't think you will find them much faster than a set of open pro's .. Anything will be better than your old wheels.

[MarinRider]

Miranda,

The only tri-spoke wheels I have ridden, and only for short distance, is the Hed Aero 3. I thought the Hed wheels were pretty heavy so I wouldn't be good for crits. I also don't think the tri-spoke are laterally stiff, again not good for crits. The Heds are fast, however, once you get them up to speed.

Don't have direct experience with the Specialized; this is all conjucture. I also have both Ksyrium tubulars and clinchers. They are stiff but spin up pretty slowly. I prefer Neutrons to Ks.

If you do well on Sunday, you can borrow any of my wheels for the Nationals.

Good luck!

[JackL]

Velomax Ascend Carbon are my hilly race wheels. They are amazingly light and have stayed true over 10+ races this year. They also accelerate very quickly.

I have have used Velomax Ascent clinchers (aluminum rims) for almost 3 years now. They are very light and accelerate well. They are also unexpectedly durable.

They have stayed very true, and I have only touched the spokes twice in 3 years . I once dropped into a rain grate, flatted, and put a small dent in the rim, but the rims were still true.

Negatives: (1) the cartridge bearings cause some side-to-side movement, (2) their lateral stiffness isn't on par with some wheels , and (3) they are not an 'aero' wheel, so not as good on the flats as in the hills.

[oracle]

are you serious, miranda? i find it hard to believe that after 8 yrs. of racing, that you are asking such basic equipment questions of an internet salon.

"Would my Tri-Spokes be a better alternative for racing on than just time trials? Are they lighter? Are they durable to withstand a crash? With a total of 8 years of racing I have been really lucky and crashed only once and that was on the track this year but there was nothing I could do in that incident. One never knows."

i really dig the "one never knows" bit, because truly, one does not really ever know.

[Miranda]

are you serious, miranda? i find it hard to believe that after 8 yrs. of racing, that you are asking such basic equipment questions of an internet salon.

"Would my Tri-Spokes be a better alternative for racing on than just time trials? Are they lighter? Are they durable to withstand a crash? With a total of 8 years of racing I have been really lucky and crashed only once and that was on the track this year but there was nothing I could do in that incident. One never knows."

i really dig the "one never knows" bit, because truly, one does not really ever know.

Hey Oracle,

This is my first season back into racing in 10 years. All the equipment I mentioned I owned was fairly new then and I was living and racing out of my hometown in South Dakota with very little exposure to what was the "latest and greatest" at the time. It was also before the Interent was so popular out there too so my resources were very limited! One did the best they could with what they had!

That final season before my 10 year break I just needed to do one more race and I would have been upgraded to CAT 3 but I had to drive 6 hours for each race because we were so isolated. It didn't happen! After that season I had a very demanding and consuming sales position in which I was unfortunately totally away from my passion of cycling.

One major reason I relocated to major metro area was to do what I love best and that was to be around an established cycling community, learn, grow, race and ride. Basically to push myself beyond my previous limits! It helps that there is an awesome world class velodrome here too!

Life is too short! Work to live!

Miranda

[shinomaster]

you might just want to get a new bike?? You can get a great race bike for a couple of thousand.. Like a fuji with dura ace 10 speed.

[Larry]

Speeddream Wheels come in around 1525 grams for both the front and rear.
They are clinchers, and they are fast!

Go to; www.speeddream.com