And, how is it possible to overthink something as simple as riding a bike?

[Tom]

I'm not talking about riding in a group, race tactics or managing ultra distance.

I'm talking about getting on the bike by myself, riding over there and then riding back over here. It's supposed to be mindless and fun at that level, isn't it?

"You're not riding with correct posture. You're riding with correct posture, but you're going slow with a tailwind. What's that noise? You're going good, but you can't ride in a straight line. You're riding in a straight line but you're in the wrong gear. What's that noise? You're in the right gear but you shouldn't be feeling this tired. You're feeling OK but you should be drinking more. What's that noise? You're drinking enough but your posture is all wrong." Repeat for two and a half hours.

I think I'm going to go stick my finger in a light socket.

[soulspinner]

Better yet, stick your pump in the guys front wheel, repeat as necessary, and above all let the ride be fun.... :)

[Tom]

I don't carry a pump and I'd have to stick it in my own front wheel. That's the voice inside my head speaking.

[toaster]

Compared with life's real problems, cycling is simple.

I like to consider that on a bike my mind is nearly empty with only those cycling related thoughts occasionally drifting in and out. I call it therapy.

[Ginger]

I'm not talking about riding in a group, race tactics or managing ultra distance.

I'm talking about getting on the bike by myself, riding over there and then riding back over here. It's supposed to be mindless and fun at that level, isn't it?

"You're not riding with correct posture. You're riding with correct posture, but you're going slow with a tailwind. What's that noise? You're going good, but you can't ride in a straight line. You're riding in a straight line but you're in the wrong gear. What's that noise? You're in the right gear but you shouldn't be feeling this tired. You're feeling OK but you should be drinking more. What's that noise? You're drinking enough but your posture is all wrong." Repeat for two and a half hours.

I think I'm going to go stick my finger in a light socket.

No.

You just have to get used to the voices.

(2.5 hours is not "over there and back")

[Ti Designs]

Watch a child as they first learn how to walk. There's no understanding of the process, the arms are flailing, the feet come way up in the air so they can see them, and they fall down a lot. It just gets worse when they try to go faster. You don't see adults doing that, do you? Nobody stops the learning process at 2 and says "I just walk to get places, I don't race" do they? Nope, they learn the process, make it second nature and never think about it again (unless they suffer an injury which causes them to relearn how to walk)

Most people on the bike never get much beyond the first stages of learning how to ride. They have all kinds of excuses - I don't race, I just ride for fun... I've always found that the good riders have more fun, the people who never took the time to learn get frustrated. There is a cost of getting into cycling, and I'm not talking about the price of the bike, I'm talking about learning how to ride. That learning process is just like learning how to walk, do you practice walking, or do you just do it? Any sport would suck if you had to concentrate on the mechanics of it all the time. There's a huge difference between those who have made the mechanics of cycling second nature and those who just never learned.

I've been coaching new riders for a decade, I notice things about how people ride. It's to the point where I have to tell myself I'm not coaching when I'm on a group ride. I've seen so much need to learn the sport that I've started a coaching business dedicated to just teaching technique. Oddly enough, the first clients I had when I started my coaching business are still with me every Sunday morning. Once they realized how much better cycling can be, they couldn't get enough.

Lastly, why would anybody buy a sports car and not learn how to drive?

[William]

All I ever hear in my head is: "Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? GET THAT SQUIRREL!!!! GET THAT SQUIRREL!!!! GET THAT SQUIRREL!!!!" ...

THUMP!! THUMP!!

:banana:

"Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel? Where's the squirrel?......


Or something to that effect....



William

[Ginger]

Ah see...my voices are more on the:

Spin
spin
spin
neutral back
spin
spin
Why aren't my quads firing?
All I'm doing is pulling through and up and not pushing down
That's f'd up
spin
ok left quad is firing
spin
right quad
spin
yay
wooo hoo
faster!
where's my rpm?
uh oh...
I'm not pulling through
spin
better
neutral back
spin faster!
geeze, loosen up those shoulders, you're thinking to much
well that was a square
now it's all fallen apart again
spin
neutral back
spin

So...yeah. Every single pedal stroke.

But it's not too loud and it goes on all the time, so I'm used to it...but it's always there.

And yes...I need to do my OLP drills.

Lots.

[Fixed]

bro some stuff i thought was gospel ...now I think is garbage imho
cheers





i feel more at home riding than walking but i do both a little

[Ginger]

bro some stuff i thought was gospel ...now I think is garbage imho
cheers
Yep.
I'm still doing some retraining. My legs don't always remember what they're supposed to be doing and my back doesn't always stay where it's out of trouble....

[Fixed]

g i'm thinkin about something as simple as sitting on the bike my idea's change as I ride through time .. most of the time i'm in the yay mind thing goin
cheers
mind = good servant bad master

[Blue Jays]

Observe the number of people riding on their brakehoods with elbows locked. A decent portion of riders have difficulty getting everything correct (in terms of technique) each time they're out.

[chrisroph]

jeez i'm usually in a bunch of different wonderful places when i'm out pedaling alone. i'm worrying about form and stuff only if i'm doing structured work. if i'm in a group then there's another gestalt.

find some flowing trails and go ride your mtn bike thats the best place to get lost inside your head.

[Tom]

mind = good servant bad master

Wow. Talk about distilling a thought to its essence. That's fantastic. I just found my new siggy for work.

[Grant McLean]

Ah see...my voices are more on the:

Spin
spin
spin
neutral back
spin
spin
Why aren't my quads firing?
All I'm doing is pulling through and up and not pushing down
That's f'd up
spin
ok left quad is firing
spin
right quad
spin
yay
wooo hoo
faster!
where's my rpm?
uh oh...
I'm not pulling through
spin
better
neutral back
spin faster!
geeze, loosen up those shoulders, you're thinking to much
well that was a square
now it's all fallen apart again
spin
neutral back
spin

So...yeah. Every single pedal stroke.

But it's not too loud and it goes on all the time, so I'm used to it...but it's always there.

And yes...I need to do my OLP drills.

Lots.


Sounds like someone needs an iPod for christmas....

:banana:


-g

[Ray]

jeez i'm usually in a bunch of different wonderful places when i'm out pedaling alone. i'm worrying about form and stuff only if i'm doing structured work.
Since I don't do 'structured work' per se, I tend to only think about form when I don't have any. On any reasonably good day of riding, I don't think about the mechanics of riding much if at all. I'll think about how good the ride feels and there's the occasional moment of conscious thought when I'm deciding to stand on a climb, but most of it is waaaaaay in the background.

On those rare days when I just feel like garbage on the bike, though, I can't stop thinking about what's not working and how to make it better. That thinking rarely helps - some days just suck, but every now and then I'll break through and start feeling good, so I keep thinking about it on those occasions whether I want to or not. After a bad ride, I'll usually spend the next couple of days not riding a road bike and just cruising around town and a little beyond on my upright townie bike. There's no good form or bad form or feeling good or feeling bad on that and there's DAMN straight not any speed on that bike - you just ride. That usually helps me once I get back on the road bike a couple of days later.

-Ray

[David Kirk]

Sounds like it's time for -

handball
soccer
skiing
snowshoeing
skateboarding
XC skiing
basketball
running
walking
couch surfing
reading a good book
riding in sneakers and a t shirt
fun


Dave

[Karin Kirk]

There is some sort of ideal balance between conscious thought and instinctive flow. As Ti points out, when you are learning something new, it has to be conscious at first and then it becomes ingrained to the point where it happens automatically. However, many seasoned athletes maintain a certain level of consciousness as they do their sport - that's what keeps them sharp, or allows them to experiment with subtle tweaks to otherwise good technique.

I think it's essential to spend at least some of your time being conscious about what's going on. However, thinking about only one thing at a time is usually a good strategy. An overloaded brain is probably not productive.

And if you have too much going on in your brain, then that may be inhibiting flow, and preventing your body from doing what it already knows how to do. Plus, it's not much fun.

So yeah - there is a balance. An ipod can definitely help. A mantra can help too, or a coach.

[texbike]

I'm not talking about riding in a group, race tactics or managing ultra distance.

I'm talking about getting on the bike by myself, riding over there and then riding back over here. It's supposed to be mindless and fun at that level, isn't it?

"You're not riding with correct posture. You're riding with correct posture, but you're going slow with a tailwind. What's that noise? You're going good, but you can't ride in a straight line. You're riding in a straight line but you're in the wrong gear. What's that noise? You're in the right gear but you shouldn't be feeling this tired. You're feeling OK but you should be drinking more. What's that noise? You're drinking enough but your posture is all wrong." Repeat for two and a half hours.

I think I'm going to go stick my finger in a light socket.

Wow! Fortunately I never have these self conversations while riding alone (which could be why I'm so f'n slow). I just zone out to the subtle symphony of bike sounds (hum of the tires, click of the freewheel/cassette, chain, etc), the wind in my face, the beauty of the day, the surrounding scenery, the birds/wildlife, etc. Cycling is my escape and therapy. It is where I manage to develop my best and most creative ideas/solutions for work and life in general.

Riding is my way to Turn On, Tune In, and Drop Out. I love it! :)

Texbike

[Fixed]

You're only as young as the last time you changed your mind.”
cheers

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . where I consciously go out to hammer and watch my form. There are others where I make the conscious decision to . . . Just. Go. Ride. On those I don't care about my form. I'm just grateful to be out on my bike enjoying the day.

Just be grateful the voices in your head are not telling you to do, uh, other things . . . :eek:

BBD

[deechee]

aside from key workouts where I'm watching the power meter, I find that I can let myself work on technique without having to consciously think or say it.

On the other hand, I think I'm enjoying running less lately since I'm so focused on technique/position/strides per minute lately...

its as complicated as you make it. that said, I still prefer slopping on my running shoes and running out the door over pumping tires, getting tools (pump, tube etc.), cycling shoes, helmet etc.

[Fixed]

aside from key workouts where I'm watching the power meter, I find that I can let myself work on technique without having to consciously think or say it.

On the other hand, I think I'm enjoying running less lately since I'm so focused on technique/position/strides per minute lately...

its as complicated as you make it. that said, I still prefer slopping on my running shoes and running out the door over pumping tires, getting tools (pump, tube etc.), cycling shoes, helmet etc.

a bike ride can be easy just grab the bike and ride it with what you have on
imho

[Ken Robb]

Lastly, why would anybody buy a sports car and not learn how to drive?[/QUOTE]
I've probably taught as many people to really drive as you have to ride bikes and I'll bet we both know that the vast majority of people in the USA with licenses have never progressed beyond the toddler stage where they can sort of point themselves where they want to go and hope to get there if nothing goes wrong.

When you're on the road check how many idiots sit semi-sideways with their right hand crossed over their bodies gripping the wheel on the left side. There is no way they can take effective evasive action if an emergency comes up. They are pretty much assured that they will over-react and skid or roll their vehicle. If they are driving something tall like a big SUV or pickup they rollover is more likely than the skid. Oh yeah--if their airbag goes off with the crossedover hand position they deliver a punch to their face that Mike Tyson would envy. Rant over. It must have been caused by the fool who almost killed me yesterday when he swerved ointo my lane while yakking on his cell phone with one hand and drinking coffee with her other. :crap:

[gt6267a]

i find it helps to go out for a bike ride from time to time. go about 5mph slower than ussual. don't get out of breath. just chill and look at sheot. ride for 10 min hands free just because its fun to ride with my hands straight up in the air or out to the side. there is none of this, why is my body whatever on these rides. instead of a training ride, give this a whirl.

[Ginger]

A mantra can help too

spin spin spiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnn

That IS a mantra

:)


About the only time I don't think about it (or don't hear the voices in my head), is when it's all working. That takes about a thousand miles of consistent, constant attention to the task at hand...

but my brain doesn't know where my foot is in space, so that's sort of understandable.

[Ginger]

a bike ride can be easy just grab the bike and ride it with what you have on
imho


Absolutely.

[whitecda]

I noticed last week that my right knee is tracking a nice linear track, but my left is flaring out more than what I'd call "normal". Now, do I let it go and say that's just the way that one wants/needs to go, or do I try to correct and bring it in? Worried about messing up the hip/knee worse than it's normal sorry state, vs. letting it track the way it wants and looking like a wounded bird flopping down the road!? (As if I don't already have enough to worry about :crap: )

The good news is that the voices have gone south for the winter....or maybe just waiting over there by the trainer!?

[sn69]

:crap:

It's simple.

Just go ride.
Pedal faster = ride faster.
Pedal slower = ride slower.
Sit where you're comfortable.
If you think you're fit sucks, consult someone you trust.
Keep riding.

It ain't rocket surgery. :beer:

[Ginger]

It really has nothing to do with fit.

It's just the mechanics of going faster. :)

[Viper]

Voices I hear:

Knees together
Small circles
High knees
Relax shoulders
Soft upper body
Faster
The Italians are coming!

But mostly I think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8STGeV6jc

[cadence231]

But mostly I think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8STGeV6jc

Trying to plane!

[Ginger]

Wow! Fortunately I never have these self conversations while riding alone (which could be why I'm so f'n slow). I just zone out to the subtle symphony of bike sounds (hum of the tires, click of the freewheel/cassette, chain, etc), the wind in my face, the beauty of the day, the surrounding scenery, the birds/wildlife, etc. Cycling is my escape and therapy. It is where I manage to develop my best and most creative ideas/solutions for work and life in general.

Riding is my way to Turn On, Tune In, and Drop Out. I love it! :)

Texbike


Yeah...when I do that I go about 9mph. But you know...When I'm doing that...I'm good with that. :)

[Louis]

When it stops being fun I stop doing it.

[Ti Designs]

It's simple.

Just go ride.
Pedal faster = ride faster.
Pedal slower = ride slower.
Sit where you're comfortable.
If you think you're fit sucks, consult someone you trust.
Keep riding.


Golf is pretty simple too - basicly hitting a little ball with a stick.

Hit it harder = it goes far.
Hit it soft = it doesn't go slow.
Play at your own pace, don't worry about how many digits there are in your score or that it takes a long weekend to finish 9 holes...

Driving is simple too!

Right pedal makes it go.
Left pedal makes it stop.
Use the round thing in front of you to aim.
Why are my insurance rates so high???

Oversimplification is the common justification for sucking as something. There's this group of riders who ride most weekday mornings. As with any ride, more than 4 guys together and it becomes a race. One of the riders was getting sick of getting his legs ripped off and came to me for some coaching. Now he has an easy time of staying in, and he's making it look easy, and having fun in the process. The other guys are scratching their heads wondering what happend - he was getting dropped just last season. He didn't get any younger, he's on the same bike, must be the ceramic bearings...

The real problem I face as a cycling coach is that people don't have a clue about what they don't know. Most riders who want to go faster next season work on pushing harder and generating more watts. I first work on learning where not to push. Simple example: Take one of those spring loaded hand strength gizmos and squeeze it. Hold it for 10 minutes. Can't? Maybe muscles under tension don't get blood flow and lose their ability to work - just a guess. Now look at what happens to most untrained riders on the bike. They think "push harder" and what they do is push longer. No amount of pushing down at the bottom of the pedal stroke is going to make the bike go faster, but it will decrease the amount of recovery time before those muscles are asked to fire again.

I'm sure everybody on this forum is a far better rider than the clients I work with and nobody here has ever complained about their quads burning on a long climb...

[Tom]

My sister's dog, it was "Ball/Not Ball"
William, it's "Squirrel/Not Squirrel"
Ti D, it's "Nobody ever knew how to ride a bike unless I coached them. Nobody. Never. Not even nobody that rode before I was born."

Ti, it's not about knowing how to ride a bike. It's about not knowing how to shut off my brain when it won't stop saying useless ****.

There's a time and a place for working on how to ride the bike most effectively, a ride where the whole idea is just to go out and screw around and have a good time is not that. That was the point of the original post.

Furthermore, I used to play golf. There, I admitted it. Anyhow, for most of the guys I teed off with it was really only an excuse to drink beer before 7am on a Saturday. If they gave a crap they would have taken lessons. You're right on that part. Without lessons unless you're Jim Thorpe or something you're probably not going to figure it out.

[julia]

a bike ride can be easy just grab the bike and ride it with what you have on
imho

now that's profound

i never had so much fun on a bike as i did this fall, riding one of 3 family beaters, whichever wasn't in use that day, into florence, flat pedals, basket, wearing a skirt and sandals. felt like a local. i took one ride up into the hills like that too, just couldn't get over what a blast it was. it changed my attitude to riding...

[swoop]

bikes are about balance.

ride to ride.. but don't be afraid to work on things. feeling connected and riding beautifully feels good. so does just riding. you have to find your balance and then tell us about it, no?

[Cary Ford]

I just do my best not to fall off.

[swoop]

I just do my best not to fall off.

i've seen this dude amost kill an old guy on the bike path... but i have to tell you.. he has an otherwordly spin.
and nice buns.

[Ginger]

now that's profound

i never had so much fun on a bike as i did this fall, riding one of 3 family beaters, whichever wasn't in use that day, into florence, flat pedals, basket, wearing a skirt and sandals. felt like a local. i took one ride up into the hills like that too, just couldn't get over what a blast it was. it changed my attitude to riding...

Sounds lovely.
There's a group of us who ride old bikes with baskets and flat pedals around town, to bar b ques, and pic nics, and farmer's markets. It's a different speed.

For some reason we often end up at a bar or a patio, drinks all around. Lovely way to spend a summer evening in the city.

[davids]

TiD,

Tell me more about those ceramic bearings.

[julia]

i've seen this dude amost kill an old guy on the bike path... but i have to tell you.. he has an otherwordly spin.
and nice buns.

trying to do the math on this one

does it even out?

[flux]

. No amount of pushing down at the bottom of the pedal stroke is going to make the bike go faster, but it will decrease the amount of recovery time before those muscles are asked to fire again.


This makes no sense.

[atdamico]

And then there's the guy like me. Been riding a fitness bike for 3 years and never even knew that I was supposed to get trained. I get on, clip in my shoes, and ride hard for 10-15 miles a day. My mind is clear. My body fit. So I want a new road bike, pick Serotta, find this site, and then read this thread and start to wonder...have I been doing it wrong for the last 3 years? It it supposed to be complicated? What in the heck are some of you even talking about...spin spin spin, I need a coach or I suck, etc. etc. etc.

I guess I'll just go on in my own ignorant, merry way. I don't think about spinning, I don't think about how whether or not I'm pushing or pulling. I push down with the one foot. I lift up with the other. I don't give it any thought. And I love riding. Except now I'll do it on a nicer bike. :rolleyes:

[Ginger]

This makes no sense.
Yeah, it does actually...
Quite a few people continue to push down on the pedal when they should be starting the move to sweep through the bottom of the stroke.

At least that's my take on it.

[Ginger]

And I love riding.
And really that's the only thing that matters. That you enjoy yourself.

[Ti Designs]

Ti, it's not about knowing how to ride a bike. It's about not knowing how to shut off my brain when it won't stop saying useless ****.

I see it like how I learned to play piano [badly]. The first stage I learned notes and how to control my fingers to play 7ths and 9ths and octaves and chords... Then came the music part where I learned sequences and timing. Then came the practice part where I played the same thing over and over and over until my wife left me. Now when I sit down to play I don't have to think about any of that crap, I just play.

In cycling I spend the winter working on form and technique. While other people are looking for the most realistic cycling experience on a trainer (there's no such thing), I'm breaking down the pedal stroke into it's individual muscle contractions and practicing it over and over and over (it's far less annoying than my piano playing). In season I don't have to think about those things any more than I think about notes I'm playing or how to walk down the street.


Nobody ever knew how to ride a bike unless I coached them. Nobody. Never.

I get that a lot over the internet, never out on a ride - why is that?

[davids]

I don't normally pay attention to the niceties of technique when I'm riding, although they do pop into my head from time to time. But when I'm perched on the trainer... Oh, man. It's all I think about. Which is generally a good thing, as long as I also keep reminding myself, "This isn't riding. This is training for riding. I can endure 30-40 minutes of mind-numbing repetition in the name of training..."

I'm doing one-legged drills, which I've done for years, and have added high-rpm intervals in between them. I've never tried to hold a consistent 110 rpm for three minutes before, and I'm finding it very interesting and challenging. Interesting, because the leg speed seems to be forcing both of my legs move the same way (which they normally don't - it's an issue for me, and probably a lot of people). Challenging because it's a real effort after to maintain that cadence after about 2 minutes...

I'm looking forward to seeing where this all leads to come March.

[Fixed]

bro i thought about it today and i'm more like a deer( bike ) that is tryin to stay away from hunters (cars) most of my limted mental powers are devoted to not getting caught (hit) cheers

[atdamico]

bro i thought about it today and i'm more like a deer( bike ) that is tryin to stay away from hunters (cars) most of my limted mental powers are devoted to not getting caught (hit) cheers

Love your posts. :beer:

[flux]

Yeah, it does actually...
Quite a few people continue to push down on the pedal when they should be starting the move to sweep through the bottom of the stroke.

At least that's my take on it.

Well then they are idiots.

[flux]

1. Keep your head up.
2. Relax you upper body.
3. Pedal Circles.
4. Draft the fat fast guy and sprint past him at finish.

now send $500 to fluxyousosmart@serottaforum.com

[swoop]

you want to see a country of riders that get it.... check out italy. more folks understand the aesthetic of how to ride beautifully in italy more than anywhere i've ever seen. they get it.

[jmewkill]

you want to see a country of riders that get it.... check out italy. more folks understand the aesthetic of how to ride beautifully in italy more than anywhere i've ever seen. they get it.

Oh, those Italian riders - style and panache

[julia]

you want to see a country of riders that get it.... check out italy. more folks understand the aesthetic of how to ride beautifully in italy more than anywhere i've ever seen. they get it.

i wonder if they analyze, or if it's just out of soaking in it all their lives combined with a natural aesthetic sense

[jmewkill]

i wonder if they analyze, or if it's just out of soaking in it all their lives combined with a natural aesthetic sense


Its in the olive oil. Extra virgin.

[swoop]

i think for them.. its just vulgar to not ride beautifully. its like holding a cigarette the right way or knowing not to ever wear mom jeans.

[ClutchCargo]

Oversimplification is . . .
I'm sure everybody on this forum is a far better rider than the clients I work with and nobody here has ever complained about their quads burning on a long climb...

Nail on the head, brother . . . you need some new clients ! :D

p.s. What are these "burning quads" of which you speak ? and "long" climbs, what are they ? :confused: