PayPal sucks

[gdw]

I've been having problems with PayPal since a sleazy buyer claimed he never received an item sold on Ebay and disputed the sale. PayPal initially ignored emails from me proving the item had been delivered and took money from my account to compensate the buyer. I was eventually able to get my money back, after several months, but PayPal capped my spending limit at .00 until I verified my account. I closed the bank account that was in their records during the dispute and have been trying to get PayPal to send me a check for the funds I have in their system. Their system is set up to make closing an account and withdrawing your cash practically impossible unless you verify your bank or credit card information. Classic catch 22 since I don't want them to have any more financial information after the way they initially handled the dispute. This morning I was unable to log in to PayPal and it appears that my account no longer exists. I made the mistake of keeping several hundred dollars in the account for on-line purchases and really would like it back. I've been trying to contact them by phone but not having much luck. Has anyone else experienced similar problems with PayPal? Anyone have advice on how to deal with the b*stards?

[Big Dan]

I'm done with Paypal. Closed my account last month.

:(

[trophyoftexas]

...were filmed today Raymond would say "Paypal sucks!" instead of saying it about K-Mart!

I'm done with Paypal. Closed my account last month.

:(

[BumbleBeeDave]

I made the mistake of keeping several hundred dollars in the account for on-line purchases and really would like it back.

The only way to deal with them is to not let them have access to any more of your money than absolutely necessary. I have a separate checking account that I only keep $25 in to keep the account active. When I buy something I only tranfer in enough to pay for the purchase. If I sell something I transfer the money out of my PayPal account ASAP. That way they can't get their mitts on it.

Learned to set it up this way at: www.paypalsucks.com The web master there obviously has an axe to grind, but there's lots of good info there as well.

BBD

[C5 Snowboarder]

+1
I closed my account last year after several attempts by hackers to get in. Paypal would do nothing about it - Now it is cashiers check only on ebay and to those who only accept other payment methods other than paypal.

[gdw]

My account is now open after a half hour of waiting on the phone. Apparently someone tried to log in "10-20 times" with the wrong password so they locked it. Sure. Customer support locked it after my last conversation with them.

I've been checking out that site and was able to get PayPal's phone numbers from it. I guess the only way to get my cash back is to open a new bank account, withdraw the funds from PayPal, and then close both accounts. Fun.

[ti_boi]

Tiffany and eBay in Fight Over Fakes

By KATIE HAFNER
Published: November 27, 2007
SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 26 — For years, eBay has defined itself simply as an online marketplace that links buyers and sellers.

Donna Alberico for The New York Times

Tiffany & Company has accused eBay of being a distribution network that enables the trading of counterfeit Tiffany items.
But in a weeklong bench trial in Federal District Court in Manhattan that ended last Tuesday, lawyers for Tiffany & Company argued that the online auction house was far more than that: it is a distribution network that enables the trading of counterfeit Tiffany items.

If Tiffany wins its case, not only could other lawsuits follow, but eBay’s business model could be threatened because it would be difficult and extremely expensive for the company, based in San Jose, Calif., to police a site that now has 248 million registered users worldwide and approximately 102 million items for sale at any one time.

Tiffany has requested injunctive relief that would require eBay to alter its procedures to eliminate counterfeit silver Tiffany merchandise from its auctions. Judge Richard Sullivan instructed both sides to file post-trial briefs by Dec. 7.

“I will hopefully turn this around quite quickly after that,” he told the lawyers.

Hani Durzy, an eBay spokesman, said eBay was not responsible for determining whether each product sold on the site was fake.

“As a marketplace, we never take possession of any of the goods sold on the site, so it would be impossible for us to solely determine the authenticity of an item,” Mr. Durzy said. “And we go above and beyond what the law requires us to do to keep counterfeits off the site.”

But in his closing argument last Tuesday, James B. Swire, the lawyer for Tiffany, told Judge Sullivan that eBay directly advertised the sale of Tiffany jewelry on its home page, and “because eBay profits from the sales generated by these and other actions,” Tiffany considers its actions direct copyright infringement.

Mr. Swire added that “there’s certainly much in the record to show that eBay is liable for contributory infringement.”

Bruce Rich, eBay’s lawyer, told the court the company had fulfilled its obligation to prevent the sale of counterfeit goods. In his closing argument, he said the law places the primary policing responsibility on the trademark owner, Tiffany, because Tiffany has the necessary expertise to identify counterfeits of its products.

Of course, fakes are sold everywhere, as anyone trying to dodge the street vendors selling fake designer handbags in Times Square can attest. But the anonymity and reach of the Internet makes it perfect for selling knockoffs. And as the biggest online marketplace, eBay is the center of a new universe of counterfeit products.

“The fact that eBay has chosen to set up its business in a manner that makes it extremely difficult for it to monitor the merchandise that is sold at its auctions is not a defense,” said Geoffrey Potter, chairman of the anticounterfeiting practice at Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel, a New York law firm.

Mr. Potter said that if the judge found that eBay had the same duty as flea markets and traditional retail stores to not sell counterfeit products, “eBay will likely have to either stop auctioning famous luxury products or radically alter the way it does business so that it can precertify the authenticity of those products.”

“One way that eBay could do this would be to require proof that Tiffany had been paid for the items, before eBay permits an auction of multiple, identical alleged Tiffany products,” Mr. Potter said.

Mr. Potter said eBay did manage to keep other illegal items — human organs, firearms, and child pornography — off the site. “The truth of the matter is that if eBay wanted to keep counterfeit Tiffany goods off, it probably could,” he said.

When Tiffany filed its suit against eBay in 2004, it said that Tiffany employees had trolled eBay to find fake Tiffany silver jewelry and concluded that 73 percent of 186 pieces they purchased on eBay were counterfeit.

In its original complaint, Tiffany maintained that anyone selling five or more pieces of jewelry said to be Tiffany’s at a discount “is almost certainly selling counterfeit Tiffany goods.” Other makers of luxury goods have complained that sales of counterfeit items are hurting their businesses.

“Louis Vuitton believes that people avoid buying their signature bags because of all the fake ones out there,” Mr. Potter said.

In his opening statement last week, Mr. Swire, Tiffany’s lawyer, said that in 2003 Tiffany put eBay on notice about the counterfeit items and requested that the company investigate. Yet “eBay simply turned a blind eye,” Mr. Swire said.

Last Tuesday, Judge Sullivan questioned Michael J. Kowalski, Tiffany’s chairman and chief executive, about the measures Tiffany has taken to track down and prosecute the counterfeiters.

Mr. Kowalski said it had been difficult — and often fruitless — to pursue sellers who list counterfeits on eBay, as they frequently change identity.

“We simply felt that we were chasing ourselves,” he said, and “chasing phantom sites that would be taken down one day and pop up another day, and so we were in a vicious circle.”

In the end, Mr. Kowalski said, “The heart of the issue was the distribution network,” referring to eBay.

Mr. Durzy said that eBay had put in place additional anticounterfeiting measures since Tiffany filed its suit. These include closer monitoring of categories chosen most often by counterfeiters, like expensive jewelry and handbags, as well as PayPal verification requirements, selective restrictions on sales volume and limits on cross-border sales.

“We’re very pleased with the way the trial went,” Mr. Durzy said.

After each side presented closing arguments, the judge noted what he called “a fundamental disagreement with respect to what the law is here.”

Although Judge Sullivan gave little indication of how he might rule, he pointed to legal precedents that have found that if a manufacturer or distributor continues to supply a product knowing it is engaging in trademark infringement, that manufacturer or distributor is “contributorily responsible” for any harm done as a result of the deceit.

[atdamico]

I've been having problems with PayPal since a sleazy buyer claimed he never received an item sold on Ebay and disputed the sale. PayPal initially ignored emails from me proving the item had been delivered and took money from my account to compensate the buyer. I was eventually able to get my money back, after several months, but PayPal capped my spending limit at .00 until I verified my account. I closed the bank account that was in their records during the dispute and have been trying to get PayPal to send me a check for the funds I have in their system. Their system is set up to make closing an account and withdrawing your cash practically impossible unless you verify your bank or credit card information. Classic catch 22 since I don't want them to have any more financial information after the way they initially handled the dispute. This morning I was unable to log in to PayPal and it appears that my account no longer exists. I made the mistake of keeping several hundred dollars in the account for on-line purchases and really would like it back. I've been trying to contact them by phone but not having much luck. Has anyone else experienced similar problems with PayPal? Anyone have advice on how to deal with the b*stards?

Not sure what your issue is, but I'm positive that you can simply request that they send you a check. I am positive as that is how I cash out my account every few months or so. Its pretty simple. Also, maybe they have changed the rules but I did not have to give them any bank information when I set up my account there about 7 or 8 years ago. The only thing they have on file from me is a credit card number and demographic info. Not any other financial data at all. But perhaps they grandfathered me in when they changed the rules...

[Polyglot]

I have not officially offered paypal as a payment option on any of my auctions for a few years now as they are so one-sided in their support of the buyer. If anybody asks whether they can indeed pay using paypal, I explain the reason why I don't like paypal and that I would prefer other means of payment instead. I do however say that I would be willing to accept it if there is a good reason why they cannot use any other of the means that I offer. NOBODY has ever paid using paypal since receiving the explanation.

As far as I am concerned, anybody insisting on paying with paypal after hearing how shabbily they can treat honest sellers (of course this only applies if the seller offers sufficiently easy other payment options) is a questionable buyer that I would rather not deal with.

[Frankwurst]

www.paypalsucks.com[/url] The web master there obviously has an axe to grind, but there's lots of good info there as well.

BBD

+1 I transfer the money pronto. To many horror stories for my parinoid a$$ and I'm about done with ebay. Here I don't worry. :beer:

[gdw]

It's not that simple They will not allow you to close out your account and withdraw your money unless you have a confirmed account. To confirm your account you are required to send them current financial information, a bank account or credit card. No financial info on record, no check.

[DarrenCT]

is there another option other than paypal that is very easy to use but has lower fees?

for transactions outside ebay like on this forum...

[ciclisto]

the way to deal with them is to be persistent I had to spend three hours on the phone to get my situation fixed. First do not deal with the folks from India, ask for an americano or you will go crazy . Then ask for the fraud division guy; he actually knows what he is doing. Then do not take no for an answer, Get some food, porn whatever and stay on the line with them till it is done. They are big on not pissing you off just do not piss them off. just bite into them and hang on. I only use money orders now.

[jmc22]

I cancled my Paypal account about 2 yrs ago after someone that I sold an item to said he did not receive it, even after producing the receipt from the post office and everything else they requested, they still made a refund to the Buyer. But I never paid them as I took all of the money out of my account & moved it to keep them from withdrawing from it. To date I have received 2 collection notices, promptly tossed away & will only buy & sell using money orders, sure it takes a little longer but it beats dealing with someone as unfair as Paypal (which is an E-bay company)

[C5 Snowboarder]

Before I canceled my account I used to get 3-5 emails a week saying this Email address has been added to your PayPal acccount and asked me to log in to verify. As soon as I canceled my account these emails stopped and have not had one since. Wierd cus Paypal said they did not send emails like that so where did the hackers get the info and how did they know I stopped my account,

[Veloguy 915]

Wow, Im surprised by this negative feedback, I have never had a problem with Paypal while buying or paying for items on Ebay. Confirming your account it pretty simple it I have never had problems getting my money tranferred to my accounts.

[oldfatslow]

I had a fraud experience while purchasing a bike on eBay which I paid via PayPal. eBay cancelled the auction after I made my purchase citing fraud. I contacted PayPal, owned by eBay, as the money for the purchase had not be sent on to the seller. They were extremely uncooperative in either placing a hold on the money or providing me assistance.

It took several calls but I finally got the thing straightened out.

I always pay for things via PayPal on a credit card as my credit card companies have always been extremely responsive whenever I had problems with merchants (rare but it does happen).

I agree with the folks who only link PayPal to an account which doesn't have over draft protection which is used only for PayPal. It does afford some level of protection to the user.

[97CSI]

The only way to deal with them is to not let them have access to any more of your money than absolutely necessary. I have a separate checking account that I only keep $25 in to keep the account active. When I buy something I only tranfer in enough to pay for the purchase. If I sell something I transfer the money out of my PayPal account ASAP. That way they can't get their mitts on it.

Learned to set it up this way at: www.paypalsucks.com The web master there obviously has an axe to grind, but there's lots of good info there as well.

BBD+1, though I only keep a few cents in my registered account and purchase through my creditcard in hopes that it is another layer of insullation from Paypal. At least I can dispute anything bad from Paypal with my CC issuer.

[oldguy00]

I've mostly had good experiences as well over the past 10 years.
When I sell something, I always ship it with a tracking number. As long as the package shows as delivered, I believe I am covered.

I do lots of buying as well, and being in Canada, it would suck not to have a service like paypal. Most of my purchases are from the US, and I'd hate to have to pay the bank for a money order each time, then wait 1-2 weeks for the money order to go in the mail, etc etc.

I do like the idea of setting up a separate account and keeping it empty. I may do that..

[robertt8883]

Same here i have a paypal act lost my paypal card called up reported it missing they canceled my card.An hour later or less found my card called paypal to reinstate my card said i had to go thru the entire new qualifying system in order to receive a new card.What money i have left is locked up and unable to use until i go thru there process again.Yes paypal sucks! and i am done.

[steampunk]

pp seems to be operating much like a bank but without the oversight. i.e. they can do whatever the heck they please while they have their hands on your money.

what ticks me off the most is when i receive payments or refunds from eBay transactions is that MY money is put on "hold" for a ridiculous amount of time. i still don't get it as their published "reasons" to put a hold on money do not apply to me.

anyway with the eBay-paypal monopoly i do feel like the table is in favor of buyers. all it takes is a buyer who will downright lie about being dissatisfied with or never receiving an item and the seller is left with no money and no item.

[rugbysecondrow]

I like Pay Pal, especially for the flexibility it affords me, and I presume some of you all. Could it be better, sure. Is there an alternative that can offer the same services bit with the customer care you desire? I don't think so.