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View Full Version : Reynolds 953 steel thoughts and opinons please


Jack Brunk
11-26-2007, 06:55 PM
Benefits/drawbacks?

I'm really liking the new steels. Is the stainless a step up?

Makers- IF number one on my list, anybody else?

Thanks,

J.Greene
11-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Benefits/drawbacks?

I'm really liking the new steels. Is the stainless a step up?
Thanks,

Like everything I'd choose some one that builds a bike that is what you want in geo, then material second. I never liked my IF that much.

I wonder if Hampsten would do it?

JG

Z3c
11-26-2007, 07:12 PM
Jack,

You might want to look at Badger Cycles; Rob did some of the test welding for Columbus on their stainless tubing and in general, knows tube sets in great detail. He is a great guy and will make you exactly what you want..

Scott

jeffg
11-26-2007, 07:13 PM
953: Carl Strong

Columbus stainless: Dario

Pete Serotta
11-26-2007, 07:14 PM
JACK, send a note to SPOKES, he has done lots of research on this,,,,,

paczki
11-26-2007, 07:18 PM
Chris Igleheart is building me a Ritchie travel fixie out of a mix of 953 and Columbus Spirit. I'll report back on it.

mschol17
11-26-2007, 07:19 PM
Bob Brown up in MN builds with stainless, and his prices are very reasonable. I think he was one of the earlier builders to work with it, too.

ThasFACE
11-26-2007, 07:31 PM
terry b got a very nice looking Strong 953 a while back, so you might want to check in with him: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=22781&highlight=strong+953

TimB
11-26-2007, 07:37 PM
I stumbled across the Bob Brown site a few years back - his work looks _real_ nice. If only I had an extra few thousand bucks...

http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/stainless_frames.htm

Bob Brown up in MN builds with stainless, and his prices are very reasonable. I think he was one of the earlier builders to work with it, too.

Russity
11-26-2007, 07:42 PM
terry b got a very nice looking Strong 953 a while back, so you might want to check in with him: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=22781&highlight=strong+953

ThasFACE is right. When I was looking at a 953 frame from Carl, I spoke with Terryb and he was a wealth of knowledge and good info. In the end I went with True Temper S3, and the bike is sweeeeet. Dealing with Carl was the best experience I've had with custom builders and he nailed it straight off. Top Bloke!!!

Steve Hampsten
11-26-2007, 07:43 PM
I wonder if Hampsten would do it?

JG

I'll pass, but thanks!

DarrenCT
11-26-2007, 07:51 PM
JB,

I saw an IF stainless rig today at this new sig cycles bike store here in greenwich. it looked pretty sweet and was very light if that means much...

I'd defiantly trust IF

go for it.

-d

Len J
11-26-2007, 07:53 PM
seems like not much actual benefit for the premium you pay.......IMO.

Although it can make a very pretty bike.

YMMV

Len

Ti Designs
11-26-2007, 08:04 PM
Jack,

I had a chance to try out the IF (the one that didn't fit you), and it's got that IF Crown Jewel ride with a bit of a twist. If you go way back when bikes were made of Reynolds 531 or Columbus SL (excluding french bikes), the 531 bikes had more spring, the SL bikes were a bit stiffer. The 953 has that spring to it that the 853 didn't. I've had both 531 and SL bikes that I've loved, but I could tell 'em apart with my eyes closed (which isn't the best way of riding). At very first I thought it was one of those light wimpy bikes, so I took it up the steepest [mostly] paved street in the area out of the saddle. I could feel a little movement at the bottom bracket, but I couldn't cause the chain to rub. I would have liked shorter chainstays, but that's my own taste.

Blue Jays
11-26-2007, 08:22 PM
Tom Kellogg of Spectrum Cycles isn't particularly a big fan of the stuff. It still needs to be painted if one opts for a non-welded, lugged frame using this steel...essentially eliminating the "stainless" feature of the 953 metal.

Tom_Kellogg wrote:
"...I was kind of hoping that this topic wouldn't come up. I have spoken with MANY folks about 953 since it was first announced a couple of years back. I even had about ten guys ask me this year at Vegas. Anyway, here is the short version:

It is very unlikely that we will be building with 953. Below, please fine a few reasons that apply to us, although not to all other builders;

Although the 953 main tubes are drawn in reasonable gauges and butt lengths for a significant portion of our custom customers, we can get non-953 tubing that will replicate the weight & feel of those tubes on almost any street corner.

The 953 chain stays and seat stays are not as good (functionally) as the ones we do use. Our chain stays are custom-drawn Reynolds 531 stays that we had them mill for us a number of years ago. There simply aren't any other steel chain stays out there that work as well in the real world.

The fact that 953 is practically stainless steel really does nothing for us. Since we don't weld our frames, we still would have the problem of corroding silver solder and bronze on our frames if we didn't paint them.

Along with the issue of the molecular structure of 953 ... it IS very strong stuff. In the real world of bicycles, the only advantage that 953 gives a rider is that it will hold up better in a crash than most other tubing ... all other things being equal. And there is the crux of the issue. Since 953 is really very thin tubing, it is tough for its weight, but it is not very tough.

And of course, that means that it does not make a very rigid frame. For its weight it feels just like any other steel frame, but it does not work as well as most steel frames that might be a couple of ounces heavier.

I guess that I am just too practical..."

So there you go from one of the masters of this craft. YMMV.

Fixed
11-26-2007, 08:38 PM
get it you want it imho .cheers

DarrenCT
11-26-2007, 08:44 PM
get it you want it imho .cheers

i guess it all comes down to this

fixed, what kinda beer u enjoying tonight??

Fixed
11-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Leffe Blonde Abby Ale
cheers and it's good
it was in the 80's today

Jack Brunk
11-26-2007, 09:24 PM
Thanks guys for all of your imput. I've really enjoyed both of my new steel bikes and I would like a lighter steel frame with all of the same qualities that are in the IF and Zank.

shinomaster
11-26-2007, 09:25 PM
Steel gets rusty. Hey don't shoot the messenger :confused:

xxoo

me

jeffg
11-26-2007, 09:35 PM
Thanks guys for all of your imput. I've really enjoyed both of my new steel bikes and I would like a lighter steel frame with all of the same qualities that are in the IF and Zank.

I am no sure anything will be appreciably lighter than an IF Factory Lightweight, and if it is I bet the Zank rides better ...

TMB
11-26-2007, 10:06 PM
953: Carl Strong

Columbus stainless: Dario

Strong is doing both 953 and XCr

Jack Brunk
11-26-2007, 11:54 PM
I'm going IF through my buddy the Jerk. Order goes in tomorrow. Seems around a 3-4 week lead time. Paint will be a 3/4 with the stays remaining stainless. Now I just need to decide on color and decals. Just got a Sram Red crank so I have a little time to secure the rest of the build. I'm livin on the edge with the Sram although it come come off quick if I don't like it. Thanks again for all of the info.

dvancleve
11-27-2007, 02:28 AM
Well, not to knock Tom K. but Bob Brown seems pretty sharp. He is a 3M engineer of some sort in addition to being a frame builder. To the best of my knowledge he has only done 953 silver brazed with SS lugs and no paint...

Doug

Tom Kellogg of Spectrum Cycles isn't particularly a big fan of the stuff. It still needs to be painted if one opts for a non-welded, lugged frame using this steel...essentially eliminating the "stainless" feature of the 953 metal.



So there you go from one of the masters of this craft. YMMV.

Steve Hampsten
11-27-2007, 02:35 AM
Back in my blacksmith/metalfab days on the mighty Duwamish, an employer once told me:
"two things to know about stainless steel: it ain't stainless and it ain't steel."

Jus' sayin'.

The guys at IF do rave about the ride of 953, however. And I hear good things about Responsorii - so there ya go.

Climb01742
11-27-2007, 05:46 AM
And I hear good things about Responsorii - so there ya go.

+infiniti

i would add this, or more accurately steal this from brendan:

"The Responsorium is Pegoretti's one-and-only steel bike that isn't made from Columbus Niobium Spirit tubing. Rather, it's built from Columbus XCr tubeset -- stainless steel. Why stainless? The obvious virtue is its rust-proofness. But Dario expressed his keenest interest in the attractive mechanical properties in XCr. It's 20% stronger in all the right ways in comparison to Niobium Spirit, allowing him to build the Responsorium with smaller tubing diameters, thinner walls, and more substantial butting than what you get on his Niobium Spirit bikes. The smaller diameter tubes, thinner wall thicknesses, and enhanced butting profiles on the Responsorium are complemented by 16mm seatstays (vs. the 18mm seatstays you get on the Marcelo). These changes to the tubeset have two net effects: First and foremost is that it gives, according to Dario, the most comfortable ride of any steel Pegoretti (which, in our minds, means it's the most comfortable ride of any Pegoretti). Secondly, it weighs 100g less than the Marcelo. Yeah, you don't buy steel to get a flyweight bike. But shedding weight is always a plus when you're not sacrificing ride quality or durability, so we're all for it.

A common (and very good) question is whether stainless steel in itself offers any unique ride qualities vs. what you get from Niobium Spirit. Dario's answer to this is an emphatic 'no'. The difference in ride quality between the Responsorium and his other steel bikes is a function of tubing dimensions, not tubing composition. The composition of the XCr tubing itself is what allows the specific tubing dimensions of the Responsorium. But if he built a bike from stainless steel with tubing dimensions identical to a Marcelo, Dario assures us that it would ride just like a Marcelo."

this is all true, oh so true. jack, do you know what tubing dimensions IF uses? the jerk knows what odd sizes dario used on mine; he could probably compare them for you.

it's funny, isn't it, jack, that two guys who love carbon are now head over heels over something that goes twang?

1centaur
11-27-2007, 06:09 AM
it's funny, isn't it, jack, that two guys who love carbon are now head over heels over something that goes twang?

Leaving me to pursue my purist view with yet two more in the pipeline.

corky
11-27-2007, 06:33 AM
I've owned an IF SSR 953 for 5 months now....(as he shed's his Lurker skin).

Why did I buy it?

Have previously bought IF's and love a) the Co. b) the product. c) the purchasing experience
Love Steel, always have.
Designed it myself.
It has the 'twang'.
doesn't need paint, in fact looks better without.....(any), to me.
It is 'reasonable' at everything, a good 'all rounder':-
reasonably light
reasonably stiff/responsive/any other adjective
reasonably shiny! :)

I Heart straight tubes (especially stays) my IF has v.straight stays.

It is v.expensive(for steel) but I still think it's 'reasonable'...to me.

Only you can decide what's reasonable. :bike:

..... slips Lurker cloak back on.....

Climb01742
11-27-2007, 06:42 AM
Leaving me to pursue my purist view with yet two more in the pipeline.

or you could give something twangy a try. i sure ain't in the "steel is real" crowd, because all the steel bikes i've ridden have been as different as the carbon bikes i've ridden. and only one twangy thang has, for me, beat that carbon thang. in the end, i suppose, it all comes down to what an individual builder does with his chosen thang.

DarrenCT
11-27-2007, 07:35 AM
I've owned an IF SSR 953 for 5 months now....(as he shed's his Lurker skin).

Why did I buy it?

Have previously bought IF's and love a) the Co. b) the product. c) the purchasing experience
Love Steel, always have.
Designed it myself.
It has the 'twang'.
doesn't need paint, in fact looks better without.....(any), to me.
It is 'reasonable' at everything, a good 'all rounder':-
reasonably light
reasonably stiff/responsive/any other adjective
reasonably shiny! :)

I Heart straight tubes (especially stays) my IF has v.straight stays.

It is v.expensive(for steel) but I still think it's 'reasonable'...to me.

Only you can decide what's reasonable. :bike:

..... slips Lurker cloak back on.....

can u post pictures in the gallery?? sounds pretty cool

Fixed
11-27-2007, 07:54 AM
bro what jack does imho has nothing to do with most cats he can afford to try it if he doesn't like it get rid of it or put it in line with the other great rides the cat has
cheers

soulspinner
11-27-2007, 07:55 AM
Call IF. I talked to them about the 953 and they have yet to get Reynolds to get them light stays. The main triangle is light, but the stays are way heavier than say TT S-3. The guys at IF are the most forthcoming with info I have ever come across with regard to intricate details. They seem truly passionate about what they do and encourage the weight weenie in all of us (even though it doesnt matter for some of us).

Simon Q
11-27-2007, 08:04 AM
or you could give something twangy a try. i sure ain't in the "steel is real" crowd, because all the steel bikes i've ridden have been as different as the carbon bikes i've ridden. and only one twangy thang has, for me, beat that carbon thang. in the end, i suppose, it all comes down to what an individual builder does with his chosen thang.
I read an interview with Fausto Pinarello in Ride mag a while back where he said that he still thinks the best material for a bike is expertly worked metals in terms of capturing certain ride qualities. People want carbon now and it's perfect for making frames that's it so that's baasically what Pina produce but there is plenty more to be explored in what more can be done with steel, alu, ti mag and maybe some new combos.

MilanoTom
11-27-2007, 09:22 AM
A local (and trusted) shop owner told me that there had been some cracking in the early IF stainless cyclocross frames. The problem (and I'm no engineer) had something to do with the steel getting brittle in the area of the welds. Has anyone else heard anything about this? I was also told that it was remedied in fairly short order, but it sounded like the kind of thing I would have read about either in the cycling press or on a forum.

Regards.
Tom

corky
11-27-2007, 09:29 AM
I believe, it was in the stays, the ones that were faulty were protos, Reynolds subsequently changed the spec prior to production models being shipped. It was one of the reasons why I had to wait so long for mine.

IF will elaborate, no doubt if you contact them for verification.

No need to worry, thats what prototypes are for......

J.Greene
11-27-2007, 09:31 AM
A local (and trusted) shop owner told me that there had been some cracking in the early IF stainless cyclocross frames. The problem (and I'm no engineer) had something to do with the steel getting brittle in the area of the welds. Has anyone else heard anything about this? I was also told that it was remedied in fairly short order, but it sounded like the kind of thing I would have read about either in the cycling press or on a forum.

Regards.
Tom

I have heard the same rumor and tried to verify it. I could never find much so if it happened it probably happened to only a few frames. I'm sure everyone has had issues with a batch of tubes or some other part.

JG

timto
11-27-2007, 09:58 AM
Here I go cross posting again!

I think this (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=113939) one is very nicely done.

timto

corky
11-27-2007, 10:15 AM
Here's mine, http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98432&stc=1&d=1187272637

some components have changed..... no longer running CT, stem is now longer and have some reynolds ULs, diff saddle.... but the Frames the same :)

MilanoTom
11-27-2007, 10:18 AM
I have heard the same rumor and tried to verify it. I could never find much so if it happened it probably happened to only a few frames. I'm sure everyone has had issues with a batch of tubes or some other part.

JG

From what I heard, it was in fact only a few frames, but they had been used in competition. I didn't hear that it was in the stay area - it was in the main triangle (I can't remember whether it was the bottom bracket or the head/top tube junction).

If the tubing walls were a little thicker or the construction been a little different (lugs would have eliminated the heat issue), I don't think the problems would have arisen. Unfortunately, the frames would also have been marginally heavier and not been as appealing to the gram-counters.

Based on what I was told, I'd be pretty comfortable at this point with the IF. Before getting any other stainless frame, however, I'd want to know more about the builder's welding and heat treating processes.

Tom

FlaRider
11-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Could someone please describe the advantages of stainless steel for bicycle applications as compared to "conventional" steel, other than the fact that stainless doesn't rust, may be marginally lighter and will leave your wallet lighter as well?

Thanks.

corky
11-27-2007, 10:23 AM
Makes Da Ladeez Swoon.....

RPS
11-27-2007, 11:25 AM
Could someone please describe the advantages of stainless steel for bicycle applications as compared to "conventional" steel, other than the fact that stainless doesn't rust, may be marginally lighter and will leave your wallet lighter as well?

Thanks.The weight (density) and stiffness (Young’s modulus) are essentially the same as most all steel.
If tubes are specified the same thickness, all will be pretty much the same (just short of failure).
Since most bikes are not stressed to the limits (except in crashes),
the higher material strength may not be all that beneficial.

But as you say, stainless doesn’t rust. And it can be shiny when polished.

soulspinner
11-27-2007, 02:00 PM
Here I go cross posting again!

I think this (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=113939) one is very nicely done.

timto


Oh my. :beer:

Nick H.
11-28-2007, 07:37 AM
Dave Yates is one of the most respected British frame builders and helped Reynolds with the development of 953. This is from Dave's site www.daveyatescycles.co.uk

"Dave has been carrying out development work for Reynolds on their new 953 tubing (photos below.) Reynolds had carried out previous testing on TIG joints and material 0.7mm thick. Dave's joints were the first fillet brazed ones to be tested, and were on a thinner section of tube. The test standard is 100,000 cycles. The joint pictured below, brazed by Dave, was taken off test at 280,000 cycles with no sign of crack, well above test standard."

Dave is a very down to earth 'all marketing is BS' kind of guy. He works with any tubeset and has no allegiance to Reynolds, Columbus or anybody else. So I would trust him to give you the truth about 953 if you want to call him and ask about it. Make sure you phone during office hours though, and remember the time difference. If you wake up the household (which includes numerous springer spaniels) it will make for a very poor start to your relationship with him!

I recently went on his frame building course and built a tourer from 853 - one of the best things I've ever done in my life. I can't recommend the experience too highly.

I didn't get the impression that he was bowled over by 953. I suspect that if he was asked what the ultimate steel frame set for a racer was, he might just pick something from Columbus. Or maybe 853 Pro? But I don't know. Somebody should ask him!

rpm
02-14-2008, 10:31 AM
Just curious to see if opinions are changing on 953 and Columbus stainless. I have been hearing some buzz that it produces a particularly lively and nice ride compared to 853 and others, and that it's coming with better chainstays.

Jack, did you get your IF stainless?

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 11:34 AM
Just curious to see if opinions are changing on 953 and Columbus stainless. I have been hearing some buzz that it produces a particularly lively and nice ride compared to 853 and others, and that it's coming with better chainstays.

Jack, did you get your IF stainless?
No and I'm not pleased at the moment. I'm having my Boston attorney/bike guru the Jerk check out what the **** is going on. There's too many different stories going on. I might call for a congressional hearing to get to real truth of what's really happening.

e-RICHIE
02-14-2008, 11:36 AM
No and I'm not pleased at the moment. I'm having my Boston attorney/bike guru the Jerk check out what the **** is going on. There's too many different stories going on. I might call for a congressional hearing to get to real truth of what's really happening.
Brunkpedia 12.0 atmo -

saab2000
02-14-2008, 11:37 AM
I might call for a congressional hearing to get to real truth of what's really happening.

Yup. That'll get to the bottom of it. Congress is all about truth..... :rolleyes:

Tobias
02-14-2008, 11:50 AM
I have been hearing some buzz that it produces a particularly lively and nice ride compared to 853 and others, and that it's coming with better chainstays.What does the "buzz" attribute the ride improvement to?
It's confusing given mechanical properties are basically identical. :confused:

dauwhe
02-14-2008, 12:02 PM
What does the "buzz" attribute the ride improvement to?
It's confusing given mechanical properties are basically identical. :confused:

It's the shininess. Light waves reflect off the extra-shiny tubing, and then hits the pavement, creating a resonant damping effect. Smooths the ride while converting the bumpiness of the pavement into forward motion.

Dave

;)

Smiley
02-14-2008, 02:19 PM
JACK, send a note to SPOKES, he has done lots of research on this,,,,,
And Kelly Bedford will be building his new bike in 953

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 02:23 PM
I had a great time rapping with Spokes at the show. He is one great guy for sure and we did speak about 953. That's why I got in line for a JK Special.

Climb01742
02-14-2008, 02:34 PM
No and I'm not pleased at the moment. I'm having my Boston attorney/bike guru the Jerk check out what the **** is going on. There's too many different stories going on. I might call for a congressional hearing to get to real truth of what's really happening.

jack, in this part of the country, if you want to get someone's attention, call in the boys from providence. they know how to get someone to talk.

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 02:37 PM
In the end it doesn't really matter. I'll either get it or I won't. Too bad though that their stories aren't in line.

Climb01742
02-14-2008, 02:40 PM
In the end it doesn't really matter. I'll either get it or I won't. Too bad though that their stories aren't in line.

on a happier note, which of your bikes are you riding most and enjoying the most? is steel or carbon the one you grab most these days? :D

maunahaole
02-14-2008, 02:47 PM
jack, in this part of the country, if you want to get someone's attention, call in the boys from providence. they know how to get someone to talk.


Has that changed recently? When I lived back there, those folks lived in either Fall River or New Bedford.

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 03:15 PM
on a happier note, which of your bikes are you riding most and enjoying the most? is steel or carbon the one you grab most these days? :D
Been off the bike for three weeks due to a broken collarbone/seperated shoulder. Good news is the trainer sessions are going well and I get to go out this weekend for a couple of road rides. I equally ride between the Crumpton and Vanilla as their both equal favorites. How about you?

Climb01742
02-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Been off the bike for three weeks due to a broken collarbone/seperated shoulder. Good news is the trainer sessions are going well and I get to go out this weekend for a couple of road rides. I equally ride between the Crumpton and Vanilla as their both equal favorites. How about you?

jack, sorry to hear about your injury. hope you heal quickly. with our lousy winter weather lately, i've been on a colnago master light, now covered in sand and grit. on the few good days, i'm also going for either the peg respo or the nago c50. we now have potholes here the size of VWs. i'm jealous of your weather and your roads...and your bikes!

bshell
02-14-2008, 04:37 PM
Jack,

Without throwing anyone under the bus at IF can you say whether it has to do with material availability or work load (or NAHBS preparation)?

I'm considering ordering something from them fairly soon but would like to know what I may face.

Thanks.

davids
02-14-2008, 04:43 PM
This is all anecdotal, so please take it with a grain of salt. I have heard nothing but good things about Independent Fabrications, with two exceptions - Their ability to turn their full-suspension "DW link" mountain bike from concept to production, and their speed producing their 953 frames.

In both these cases, my information comes from potential customers. I have no idea how widespread any issues might be, or what lies behind them.

I'd buy a Crown Jewel, Club Racer, Factory Lightweight or Deluxe from IF without reservation or hesitation, and with bigtime enthusiasm. In fact, I saw a beautiful new Crown Jewel just last weekend, being decked out for racing. It was hard for me to focus on the Specialized mountain bike in my hands when that thing rolled by me.

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 05:03 PM
Jack,

Without throwing anyone under the bus at IF can you say whether it has to do with material availability or work load (or NAHBS preparation)?

I'm considering ordering something from them fairly soon but would like to know what I may face.

Thanks.
I'm told it's material availability. My issue is not with IF and their build qualtity. My issue is what both the jerk and myself were told during the build process(which I'm not sure it's even built). I wouldn't hesitate to order a bike from IF as their build quality is top notch.

maunahaole
02-14-2008, 05:16 PM
Jack - please don't take offense to the question, but why are you interested in stainless? My reasons for asking: 1. You live in mostly dry So-Cal, 2. You seem to be fairly meticulous about cleaning your rigs, 3. You seem to have a 3 month turnover period on a lot of your stuff...The main reason *to me* for going towards 953 (or other stainless) is the lack of corrosion or the ability to ride an unpainted frame. It seems that there are other steels out there that would give as good, if not better performance, including one already in your livery.

Please note that "because I can" and "because I want to check it out" are perfectly valid answers to the question, and I look forward to hearing your take on the frame if you get it.

Steve Hampsten
02-14-2008, 05:24 PM
I have an SS frame from IF on order and they're telling me that the tubes are hard to come by and there aren't many available, which translates to longer wait times, I'm afraid.

My customer isn't in a panic 'cause he has scads of other bikes to ride, if you catch my drift. He'll get when he gets it.

Chris
02-14-2008, 05:31 PM
My customer isn't in a panic 'cause he has scads of other bikes to ride, if you catch my drift. He'll get when he gets it.

It doesn't hurt that Douglas has the patience of Job either... :)

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 05:55 PM
Jack - please don't take offense to the question, but why are you interested in stainless? My reasons for asking: 1. You live in mostly dry So-Cal, 2. You seem to be fairly meticulous about cleaning your rigs, 3. You seem to have a 3 month turnover period on a lot of your stuff...The main reason *to me* for going towards 953 (or other stainless) is the lack of corrosion or the ability to ride an unpainted frame. It seems that there are other steels out there that would give as good, if not better performance, including one already in your livery.

Please note that "because I can" and "because I want to check it out" are perfectly valid answers to the question, and I look forward to hearing your take on the frame if you get it.
No offense taken :) My main interest in 953 is to again build a very lightweight racing steel frame that can handle ultra distance riding. My Vanilla has proven to me that it's very possible to have a sub 14.5 steel racing bike. We'll see if the 953 is capable of being in that league. I'm hoping it is.

Jack Brunk
02-14-2008, 05:59 PM
I have an SS frame from IF on order and they're telling me that the tubes are hard to come by and there aren't many available, which translates to longer wait times, I'm afraid.

My customer isn't in a panic 'cause he has scads of other bikes to ride, if you catch my drift. He'll get when he gets it.
I'm not in a panic either. Just not sure if it's going to arrive or not. I think the issue also has to do with chain and seatstays. No worries :)

rinconryder
02-14-2008, 06:00 PM
Jack - please don't take offense to the question, but why are you interested in stainless? My reasons for asking: 1. You live in mostly dry So-Cal, 2. You seem to be fairly meticulous about cleaning your rigs, 3. You seem to have a 3 month turnover period on a lot of your stuff...The main reason *to me* for going towards 953 (or other stainless) is the lack of corrosion or the ability to ride an unpainted frame. It seems that there are other steels out there that would give as good, if not better performance, including one already in your livery.

Please note that "because I can" and "because I want to check it out" are perfectly valid answers to the question, and I look forward to hearing your take on the frame if you get it.

Even if you live in SoCal, have you ever seen what saltwater air can do to stuff? It destoys everything around it, including stuff indoors.

regularguy412
02-14-2008, 06:04 PM
It doesn't hurt that Douglas has the patience of Job either... :)


Yes. The patience of Job, but without all the plagues. Now,, about that begatting found in the Gospel of St. Matthew...........

JK :D

Mike in AR :beer:

maunahaole
02-14-2008, 06:27 PM
Even if you live in SoCal, have you ever seen what saltwater air can do to stuff? It destoys everything around it, including stuff indoors.


Please note my location before you ask that question...here it is x10, as the ocean is 75 degrees F....bare aluminum is toast.

The salt air was a main determining factor in going ti.

jimcav
02-14-2008, 06:38 PM
nothing i read though said it would be any lighter than a well made true temper s3 bike. I can't see any reason to go with 953 other than you are too busy to wipe it down and such if you are caught in the rain. that was the attraction for me--a steel bike i could use year round here in the seattle area that i could just ride to and from work and jump off and neglect for days at a time. thank goodness san diego seems very likely and i won't have such conditions for a few years at least
jim

pdxmech13
02-14-2008, 09:26 PM
I really don't get 953.
What does it do that no other metal does ?

Steve Hampsten
02-14-2008, 11:23 PM
I really don't get 953.
What does it do that no other metal does ?


It costs more - isn't that enough?

David Kirk
02-15-2008, 12:16 AM
I really don't get 953.
What does it do that no other metal does ?

It goes to 9.

Dave

RudAwkning
02-15-2008, 01:27 AM
After having ridden my new S3 main triangle/953 rear triangle fixed gear, I can say that the 953 rear end is more rigid than a stock S3 rear end. I don't mind the "livliness" in the stock stays of my R33, but for its given application here (fixed gear) I like feeling the torque going straight from the crank to the wheel without as much flex. You can especially feel the rigidity when using your legs to brake.

Now it's not like I actually had the foresight to know this. I live in the SF Bay Area so rain/corrosion isn't much of an issue and I certainly wouldn't be suffering any chain slap issues with a fixie. From an application of materials standpoint, there was no real good reason to go with 953. I just thought that a polished out 953 rear end on a tigged S3 bike would look cool and was pretty sure that it wouldn't adversely affect the ride. Both Waterford and the shop I work at wanted to make a killer "showbike" for NAHBS and this is what we came up with.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=40613&page=1&pp=15

Don't have any feedback on a the main tubes but our lone customer to purhcase a full 953 frame hasn't complained or returned the bike.

As for its usefulness, it's nice to a have an "all weather" steel alternative for rando bikes and the like. And while there are other materials out there that fair well in wet conditions, they can't be carved and lugged like steel can. And that has to count for something :D

pdxmech13
02-15-2008, 09:49 AM
It goes to 9.

Dave

i'll wait till 1153 then

johnnymossville
02-15-2008, 10:01 AM
No offense taken :) My main interest in 953 is to again build a very lightweight racing steel frame that can handle ultra distance riding. My Vanilla has proven to me that it's very possible to have a sub 14.5 steel racing bike. We'll see if the 953 is capable of being in that league. I'm hoping it is.


Jack, I'm fairly new to the forum. A sub 15lb. Steel bike? That's gotta be something to ride. Have you written any reviews of this bike here, or anywhere else?

John

SPOKE
02-15-2008, 10:59 AM
Jack, I'm fairly new to the forum. A sub 15lb. Steel bike? That's gotta be something to ride. Have you written any reviews of this bike here, or anywhere else?

John

my Kirk JK Special is lugged steel (953 top and down tubes and TT S3 for the balance). as displayed at the NAHBS this year is about 16.2lbs and built to be an every day rider/racer. with a few part changes it can be sub 16lbs and still be an everyday rider. pretty cool IMO :beer:

97CSI
02-15-2008, 11:01 AM
my Kirk JK Special is lugged steel (953 top and down tubes and TT S3 for the balance). as displayed at the NAHBS this year is about 16.2lbs and built to be an every day rider/racer. with a few part changes it can be sub 16lbs and still be an everyday rider. pretty cool IMO :beer:Can you post a pic or link to same? Would like to see of what you speak.

Thought I had read somewhere (earlier in this thread?) that 953 was designed primarily for TIG'd applications.

jthurow
02-15-2008, 11:02 AM
http://www.kirkframeworks.com/jk_special.htm

jimi

soulspinner
02-15-2008, 12:15 PM
my Kirk JK Special is lugged steel (953 top and down tubes and TT S3 for the balance). as displayed at the NAHBS this year is about 16.2lbs and built to be an every day rider/racer. with a few part changes it can be sub 16lbs and still be an everyday rider. pretty cool IMO :beer:

That bike is THE sh.... :cool: