TruTrainer rollers - special version [Archive]

11.4

11-26-2007, 02:36 PM

Hey, everyone. I've been extolling my TruTrainers for a while. Now there's a special version out in a limited edition of THREE.

These are TruTrainer Travelers, which are identical to the Premiums except without the flywheel -- made for travel, race warm-up, track, cadence workouts, etc. Except for the much better quality, they're identical to a Kreitler in concept and workout. They also were made with the new perforated rails to reduce weight, and ... this is the special point here ... they milled additional stops for the front drum so you can reduce the wheelbase down to 93 cm. If you're riding with a curved seat tube (BT Stealth, Cervelo P3, most of the other aero or monocoque frames), or with a 650-sized frame, kid's frame, or just a very tight build, you may not be able to fit normal rollers because your wheelbase is less than the traditional 99-103 cm measure. TruTrainer made one of these for me and made two extras in the process. If this is of use to you, grab one while they are still available. They're $499.95 and are a much better alternative to Kreitlers. There's no extra price for the extra work (and no, I'm not affiliated with TruTrainer or get anything from this -- I just want to endorse a couple superb guys and a great product). E-mail them at their site (www.trutrainer.com) for more info. This is about the only way to get a super-short wheelbase set of rollers, which is necessary with the shorter wheelbases on many modern frames.

Fixed

11-26-2007, 02:44 PM

bro they must be good
cheers

LegendRider

11-26-2007, 02:50 PM

Except for the much better quality, they're identical to a Kreitler in concept and workout.

Kreitlers have traditionally been the gold standard for rollers. Where do they lag compared to the TruTrainers? Bearing quality? Roundness of drums? Frame construction?

I have no dog in the fight - just curious.

11.4

11-26-2007, 03:07 PM

Kreitlers have traditionally been the gold standard for rollers. Where do they lag compared to the TruTrainers? Bearing quality? Roundness of drums? Frame construction?

I have no dog in the fight - just curious.

Much more rigid frames, rounder drums, anodized drums (so they don't rub aluminum off onto your tires), very secure drum adjustment, etc. Basically, every feature of a Kreitler has been improved on significantly. Check recent threads on them on this forum. TruTrainer Premiums (with the flywheel) are a lot more expensive, but the new TT Traveler is basically priced the same as a Kreitler alloy but much better made. Check www.trutrainer.com for some photos. There was also a review on Pez Cycling that you can search for. But check the recent thread on the Serotta forum on TT versus InsideRide rollers.

DarrenCT

11-26-2007, 03:10 PM

i've been thinking about getting rollers but i'm scared of killing myself.

pls help.

-d

11.4

11-26-2007, 03:20 PM

You don't kill yourself. The worst that happens is you ride off the rollers. If that happens, there's no momentum except circular momentum in the wheels, so you don't go anywhere. Just pop your foot out of the pedal and put it down. You can actually ride off the rollers and then have to push off to ride away. TruTrainers are actually designed so the roller is flush with the edge of the rail, so you don't drop into a crack like you do on Kreitlers -- you really do just ride off the rollers and bump down to the floor. You can start riding in a doorway so you have a doorjamb less than a foot away in case you feel you're losing your balance, but it's just a confidence-builder.

Riding rollers that aren't really rigid, or rollers with any kind of vibration, is both uncomfortable and unsettling. TruTrainers really go after this problem and are so smooth that when I'm coaching a new roller rider, he/she is usually riding hands-free within an hour or so. There's nothing that will help your riding ability more than riding rollers during the winter. I used to draw my limit at an hour of rollers a day when I was riding Kreitlers but I can do quite a bit more now, and also do harder workouts.

Your_Friend!

11-26-2007, 03:46 PM

Friends!

Yes!

Riding Rollers Is

The_Way!

The Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7K4O7YTLQQ)

Love,
Your_Friend!

jchasse

11-26-2007, 05:14 PM

i've been thinking about getting rollers but i'm scared of killing myself.

pls help.

-d

Where are you in CT? I've got a set of basically new Kreitlers that you can try if you're interested. But i want them back and i'd probably have to etch my name into 'em to make sure they don't become part of the estate...you know - if you kill yerself on 'em.

Seriously, if you want to pick them up in Easton and bring them back in a couple of weeks let me know.

Peter P.

11-26-2007, 06:44 PM

Kreitlers have traditionally been the gold standard for rollers. Where do they lag compared to the TruTrainers? Bearing quality? Roundness of drums? Frame construction?

I have no dog in the fight - just curious.

Kreitlers are GREAT, and a TREMENDOUS value relative to the TruTrainers. I've used Kreitlers and own TruTrainer Premiums.

To me, the Kreitlers lag in that it's much more difficult to stand up off the saddle when you want to relieve saddle pressure/discomfort, which to me happens about every 20 minutes. The TruTrainer flywheel design makes out of the saddle riding VERY easy.

Next, the TruTrainer design places the bike in a level position, so it doesn't feel like the saddle is pointing up into your privates when you're on the drops. Kreitlers don't compensate for the drop of the rear wheel, thus the bike has a slight uptilt on the rollers. I've recently figured out a homemade solution to this though, merely adjust the saddle tilt for roller riding- a pain in the butt solution if you don't have a dedicated roller bike but, duh, sure is obvious!

Yeah; like 11.4 mentioned, all the other TruTrainer features are superior to Kreitlers for sure, but I definitely think Kreitlers are THE bargain. Get the 3 inchers though, to provide some resistance. If you still want to work on leg speed, just use lower gears.

"Where are you in CT? I've got a set of basically new Kreitlers that you can try if you're interested. But i want them back and i'd probably have to etch my name into 'em to make sure they don't become part of the estate...you know - if you kill yerself on 'em.

Seriously, if you want to pick them up in Easton and bring them back in a couple of weeks let me know."

Ditto from me, DarrenCT. I'm in Meriden and if you want to try Kreitlers and a TruTrainer side by side, we can hook up.

11.4

11-26-2007, 07:03 PM

Kreitlers are GREAT, and a TREMENDOUS value relative to the TruTrainers. I've used Kreitlers and own TruTrainer Premiums.

To me, the Kreitlers lag in that it's much more difficult to stand up off the saddle when you want to relieve saddle pressure/discomfort, which to me happens about every 20 minutes. The TruTrainer flywheel design makes out of the saddle riding VERY easy.

Next, the TruTrainer design places the bike in a level position, so it doesn't feel like the saddle is pointing up into your privates when you're on the drops. Kreitlers don't compensate for the drop of the rear wheel, thus the bike has a slight uptilt on the rollers. I've recently figured out a homemade solution to this though, merely adjust the saddle tilt for roller riding- a pain in the butt solution if you don't have a dedicated roller bike but, duh, sure is obvious!

Yeah; like 11.4 mentioned, all the other TruTrainer features are superior to Kreitlers for sure, but I definitely think Kreitlers are THE bargain. Get the 3 inchers though, to provide some resistance. If you still want to work on leg speed, just use lower gears.

"Where are you in CT? I've got a set of basically new Kreitlers that you can try if you're interested. But i want them back and i'd probably have to etch my name into 'em to make sure they don't become part of the estate...you know - if you kill yerself on 'em.

Seriously, if you want to pick them up in Easton and bring them back in a couple of weeks let me know."

Ditto from me, DarrenCT. I'm in Meriden and if you want to try Kreitlers and a TruTrainer side by side, we can hook up.

Just to correct a possible misimpression:

Kreitler alloy rollers, 4.5 inch diameter, without accessories = $499.0

Kreitler Challenger rollers, 4.5 inch diameter, without accessories = $359.00

TruTrainer Travelers, 4.5 inch diameter = $499.00

Shops don't discount Kreitlers much, and prices went up recently so there isn't really a difference in price between alloy versions. The smaller diameter rollers are slightly less in price, but the smaller drums are much easier to make and don't necessarily do the same thing as the 4.5 inch ones. And the Challengers have plastic endcaps on the drums which either are no problem or give quite a bit of trouble, depending on your instance. If the rollers sit in a car outdoors at races or during the day, I'd recommend the alloys.

Fixed

11-26-2007, 07:12 PM

bro it ain't hard i learned in under a hour and well i'm no rocket scientist
cheers :beer:
bro kind was eddy on ? he was killin em imho
cheers

terrytnt

11-26-2007, 07:52 PM

Last year at this same time I researched, researched and then again researched rollers... first to determine what I should purchase then to convince myself I could ride on rollers (I had the perception I would fall off and kill myself). I received invaluable research from this forum.

Then I traveled to a place in Richmond VA where my son goes to college and test rode rollers (Krietlers). I was totally shocked with how easy it was to learn rollers.

I immediate purchased TT rollers and rode all last winter (and occasionally in the summer when I couldn't get out).

The TruTrainer rollers are absolutely incredible, I always ride for at least an hour with no difficult. YES, I have infrequently slipped, but always caught myself with a quick foot on the floor. I place my rollers so one side is against a wall and the other open carpet if I need it which is rarely.

Can't believe I waited this long to purchase rollers... This season, after a winter of rollers, I started out strong and met my goal of over 4k.

Buy this rollers... you won't regret them!

djg

11-26-2007, 08:37 PM

Just to correct a possible misimpression:

Kreitler alloy rollers, 4.5 inch diameter, without accessories = $499.0

Kreitler Challenger rollers, 4.5 inch diameter, without accessories = $359.00

TruTrainer Travelers, 4.5 inch diameter = $499.00

Shops don't discount Kreitlers much, and prices went up recently so there isn't really a difference in price between alloy versions. The smaller diameter rollers are slightly less in price, but the smaller drums are much easier to make and don't necessarily do the same thing as the 4.5 inch ones. And the Challengers have plastic endcaps on the drums which either are no problem or give quite a bit of trouble, depending on your instance. If the rollers sit in a car outdoors at races or during the day, I'd recommend the alloys.

I guess that the pvc endcaps could be a problem, but mine have been stable and look essentially new after a few years or so. I've seen the Kreitler 3" rollers with the pvc endcaps for 340 or so -- txcyclesport throws in a couple of tires along with free shipping. The trutrainer travelers seem like a really nice option too -- and much less expensive than the full bore model (seems like a grand once you add a couple of features), not that it's not worth it for those who want what it offers.

For Darren -- if you start in a doorway you can steady yourself by flaring out one or both elbows as needed. This keeps you riding, and learning, whereas bailing is just bailing -- not much good feedback there. It can feel pretty darn strange and unsettling at first, but it's really not hard and most folks experience a pretty steep learning curve. After a few short sessions in the doorway you'll probably feel that you don't need it anymore.

gt6267a

11-27-2007, 09:11 AM

i've been thinking about getting rollers but i'm scared of killing myself.

pls help.

-d

Experiences of a roller newb �

Last night I get on the rollers and was having a very hard time. Even with 100% concentration on the riding and looking ahead etc. etc. I was barely able to ride the things. Every little anything had me zooming side to side in a very uncomfortable manner. The rollers are positioned such that I am able to put an elbow against something to stabilize myself and it was very hard to keep myself from cheating. After about five minutes I fell. To say that I was frustrated and questioning my purchase is a massive understatement. Its like I didn�t even know how to ride a bike. I was thinking to myself, how the hell does anyone ride these evil contraptions?

I get out the manual and look at the diagram for the front wheel and look at my bike. The axle of my front wheel is way behind the axle of the front roller. I remember reading threads and in the manual that it should be a bit behind, but maybe it was too far?

I moved the front roller in one scallop and was riding comfortably pretty rapidly. It is just amazing how a small change makes a huge difference. I may try moving them in one more scallop just to feel the effect.

The crashing, swearing, and moving of roller ate a good deal of my exercise time but did 25min last night. I am still not ready to take my hands off the wheel but did get it up to about 130rpm with the flywheel engaged and felt comfortable. It is amazing how long its possible to coast with that thing.

After getting the setup right, riding these things is not crazy hard (for saying that, of course I will crash tonight). I am shooting to do an hour watching a CSI re-run on spike. There will be more to report tomorrow!

onekgguy

11-27-2007, 10:14 AM

What sort of resistance is there with the TruTrainer rollers? I understand there's a flywheel but I'm guessing there isn't any way to build resistance into the workout...or is there?

Kevin g

11.4

11-27-2007, 12:34 PM

What sort of resistance is there with the TruTrainer rollers? I understand there's a flywheel but I'm guessing there isn't any way to build resistance into the workout...or is there?

Kevin g

The flywheel provides a very road-like progressive resistance -- much better than a trainer but also quite significant. I use a track bike on it and am currently doing winter training in a 46x15 (82.8 inches). I just maxed my 5-second power output on the rollers with an SRM at 1386 watts, which is still 300 below my max but actually better than I was able to do on a trainer simply because I wasn't fighting the comparatively erratic resistance of the trainer. So I'd say you can probably get as much of a workout as you want. I tend to think in terms of fixed gears, but if you were in a higher road gear you'd have no limit on the amount of resistance. Above 100 inches or so, almost anyone will be cadence-limited.

Bud_E

11-27-2007, 01:09 PM

...

TruTrainers really go after this problem and are so smooth that when I'm coaching a new roller rider, he/she is usually riding hands-free within an hour or so.
...

I was under the impression that most people have difficulty riding hands-free on the TruTrainers ( or is that only with the flywheel engaged ? )

Peter P.

11-27-2007, 04:52 PM

[QUOTE=onekgguy]What sort of resistance is there with the TruTrainer rollers? I understand there's a flywheel but I'm guessing there isn't any way to build resistance into the workout...or is there?

Kevin g[/QUOTE

The resistance is BUILT into the rollers by the presence of the flywheel, which is from accelerating it. If you get on the TruTrainer web site you'll see they say the rollers are calibrated to simulate the feeling a 160lb. rider would experience riding up a 1 percent grade. Imagine that on your bike and you'll understand it's just like riding on the road in those conditions. On UNweighted rollers like Kreitlers you can accelerate the bike to 30+ mph at rates which would be inhuman on the road. That flywheel mass also increases the STEADY STATE resistance as well, so you get a more realistic workout i.e., the speeds on the TruTrainer are more similar to those you could produce on the road.

I always say that Kreitlers are STILL a very good alternative to the TruTrainer; just buy the smaller, 3" drums to provide you with more resistance.

Trust me; you won't NEED anymore resistance built into the rollers if you ride the TruTrainer.

And the flywheel does NOT affect the ability to ride hands-free.

Ray

11-27-2007, 05:09 PM

Experiences of a roller newb �

......

I get out the manual and look at the diagram for the front wheel and look at my bike. The axle of my front wheel is way behind the axle of the front roller. I remember reading threads and in the manual that it should be a bit behind, but maybe it was too far?

I moved the front roller in one scallop and was riding comfortably pretty rapidly. It is just amazing how a small change makes a huge difference. I may try moving them in one more scallop just to feel the effect.

I heard at one time that the front roller on a set of rollers should actually be directly below or slightly behind the axle of the front wheel. Having the roller in front of the axle changed the effective trail and made the bike less stable / more squirmy. My mind can get pretty twisted around pretty quickly thinking about the relationships between rake, trail, and handling, let alone trying to figure out what happens when you move the GROUND forcrhistsakes. So, can anyone tell me what the optimal location is for the roller assuming you want a relatively stable ride on the contraption?

I've never been able to ride no-handed or get out of the saddle on rollers - I've never ridden a quality set of rollers though, let alone something like the TruTrainers with a flywheel. They have me somewhat intrigued, but I don't think I can rationalize spending that much because even if they feel more like an actual ride and even if I can get out of the saddle comfortably, at some point in the first hour or two of use I'm gonna realize I'm riding in a never ending and futile attempt to catch my washing machine and I really don't want to catch the damn thing anyway. Riding inside sucks. The quality of the torture device can't possibly change that basic fact.

-Ray

11.4

11-27-2007, 05:10 PM

I was under the impression that most people have difficulty riding hands-free on the TruTrainers ( or is that only with the flywheel engaged ? )

Doesn't matter either way. What helps to ride hands-free on rollers is if the rollers aren't vibrating your saddle at all and if the alignment is really good. Vibration causes your leg action to be slightly jerky and if alignment is off it's like having a frame misalignment in spades -- you keep wanting to ride off the front roller. The Trutrainers are more vibration-free than anything else out there, and I haven't seen a misaligned one yet. As on all rollers, keep weight off the front wheel -- they're almost easiest to ride hands-free if you're sitting quite upright so you are weighting the rear wheel heavily.

saab2000

11-27-2007, 05:17 PM

11.4

11-27-2007, 05:29 PM

I am sort of intrigued by these as well. But the problem isn't ultimately the quality of the rollers, it's the motivation to get on them. That's the tough part.

I used this set last winter for a while. About as cruddy as rollers get. But they work.

Motivation isn't as hard to achieve when the rollers aren't beating you up. If they vibrate or don't ride straight, or if they're noisier, they interfere with your ability to ride hard and yet use some music, TV, whatever. Nothing is as nice as the road on a pretty summer day, but even if it's just chilly and dark, the trick is to have something that gives you a really good workout -- it's like riding nice asphalt vs. chipseal.

onekgguy

11-27-2007, 08:35 PM

gt6267a

11-27-2007, 10:26 PM

I heard at one time that the front roller on a set of rollers should actually be directly below or slightly behind the axle of the front wheel. Having the roller in front of the axle changed the effective trail and made the bike less stable / more squirmy. My mind can get pretty twisted around pretty quickly thinking about the relationships between rake, trail, and handling, let alone trying to figure out what happens when you move the GROUND forcrhistsakes. So, can anyone tell me what the optimal location is for the roller assuming you want a relatively stable ride on the contraption?

I've never been able to ride no-handed or get out of the saddle on rollers - I've never ridden a quality set of rollers though, let alone something like the TruTrainers with a flywheel. They have me somewhat intrigued, but I don't think I can rationalize spending that much because even if they feel more like an actual ride and even if I can get out of the saddle comfortably, at some point in the first hour or two of use I'm gonna realize I'm riding in a never ending and futile attempt to catch my washing machine and I really don't want to catch the damn thing anyway. Riding inside sucks. The quality of the torture device can't possibly change that basic fact.

-Ray

One could ride a no name Al rig from who knows where. The geometry might be whack. The welds might be junky. The ride might be harsh. The paint might chip. BUT if you throw a group and bits on it you�ll get down the road. Why buy anything else? If you have the cheese, why buy a benz when you�ll get there in an escort? Doesn�t one buy the TT (or anything with a greater price than the least expensive product) under the same auspices ... that for reasons abc and def there is more pleasure / enjoyment to be had, even in a futile and desperate chasing of a dust bunny to the washing machine? Not trying to be antagonistic, but you get my point.

Getting back to the rollers, I moved them in one more scallop and it was even easier to ride. Front axle is still slightly behind the axle of the front drum. I�m no longer second guessing the purchase and am exercising. With one episode of CSI down and a pile of sweat on the floor, I am looking forward to taking whatever fitness achieved this summer through the winter and maybe improving upon it!

11.4

11-27-2007, 11:20 PM

I'm coming very close to being sold on a set of these. I've not had any problem with motivation in the past for indoor workouts, it's just that I discovered a few years ago that I can actually get out there and ride in the winter when I'd never really tried before...just not at night.

11.4...what would you say are the advantages of the full blown set of rollers vs the travel set? Thanks.

Kevin g

The Premium differs only in having the flywheel. This gives you more resistance which lets you do more of a power workout. (I do recommend getting the $49 flywheel release because for a race warmup or cooldown, or for warming up on a cold day, you don't necessarily want to be working with that resistance; plus you sometimes want to do high cadence work.) The flywheel makes riding the rollers somewhat more comfortable because you're not sitting as much on your saddle and you can get up and coast (not on my track bike, of course) for quite a stretch to stretch your legs, adjust your chamois, etc. The only drawbacks are weight and cost if you get it with the flywheel release. I'm actually getting the Traveler version without flywheel to accompany my TruTrainer Premiums -- for track, for racing, and for some of my training it's better optimized, plus with my BT I need the extra-short wheelbase they made for these special edition Travelers.

Ray

11-28-2007, 04:25 AM

One could ride a no name Al rig from who knows where. The geometry might be whack. The welds might be junky. The ride might be harsh. The paint might chip. BUT if you throw a group and bits on it you�ll get down the road. Why buy anything else? If you have the cheese, why buy a benz when you�ll get there in an escort? Doesn�t one buy the TT (or anything with a greater price than the least expensive product) under the same auspices ... that for reasons abc and def there is more pleasure / enjoyment to be had, even in a futile and desperate chasing of a dust bunny to the washing machine? Not trying to be antagonistic, but you get my point.
Absolutely no argument at ALL from me that if you're going to RIDE the rollers, you should get nicer ones that allow/encourage you to ride 'em more and get more benefit from them. Like with a nice bike vs a crummy bike (does the same logic apply to watches - not to me, but that's been another discussion). My point was just that I, personally, have never been able to stick with any sort of program of indoor riding in the winter. I've had a couple of fluid trainers, a cheap set of rollers, and tried a few different spin bikes at the local gym. Better equipment didn't help in MY case. I'd rather run or take longer hikes with my dog, etc. And ride outside when its warm enough. Given my clear lack of ability or desire or discipline to stay with indoor winter riding, I was only saying that they'd be too much money for ME to spend on them. If I had any reasonable expectation that I'd use 'em, I'd pony up for the TruTrainers in a minute. If they're just gonna sit over in the corner (which my old cheap rollers spent most of their life doing), I may as well save the money. My intrigue is based on the rave reviews getting me to think that MAYBE I'd be different with a set of these and maybe I'd ride 'em enough to justify the cost. But then I remembered that the problem with my old rollers wasn't their quality - it was my total lack of desire to ride them after I'd done it enough to get comfortable on them.

I'm glad you're enjoying them and didn't intend any aspersions at all toward you or anyone else purchasing these - just not smart for me. I clearly didn't get that point across - apologies.

-Ray

Peter P.

11-28-2007, 06:02 AM

11.4...what would you say are the advantages of the full blown set of rollers vs the travel set? Thanks.
Kevin g

Forgive me for answering your question to 11.4, but perhaps I can add some useful insight.

I have the Premium version Tru Trainer. I have the folding option, which is definitely worthwhile for saving space and storage; this obviously is available with the travel set. The "problem", if there is one with the travel set, is the lack of resistance. It's my contention that standard rollers (4.5" dia. drums) don't offer enough resistance to raise your heart rate or build power.

Also, TT Premium rollers, due to their frame design, weight, and roller width, are a much larger, heavier package than Kreitlers to pack in your vehicle to tote to races.

If you want a set of rollers for home use, get the TT Premium version or the 3" Kreitlers. If you want something to take to races, get the Kreitlers and consider their Hot Dog version.

onekgguy

11-28-2007, 08:27 AM

11.4 and Peter P...thanks for your input. Before reading this thread I was in search of either some warmer shoes or electric footbed warmer or both for the seriously cold weather in Minnesota. Rather than spend several hundred $ on warmer footwear the thought of spending that amount and a bit more for the TT premium rollers is one I'm kicking around...but I already have a Cateye Cyclosimulator 1000 (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/cateye%20cs1000%20v2.jpg).

I had some rollers years ago and used them quite a lot. There was no resistance with them but I could still manage to work them hard enough to get a good workout. No doubt the TT rollers are quite a bit more advanced than my set from 1980 (http://kevinandtammy.net/images/gilmore3/kevin_gilmore.jpg). My Cateye is maybe a dozen years old but works fine. I suppose the decision now is should I just go back to using it when the weather is too miserable to be out in? The idea of a some nice rollers is an enticing one but I don't know if I can justify it.

Kevin g

Chris

11-28-2007, 10:11 AM

I have had my Tru Trainer rollers for a couple of weeks. They do everything I expected. You cannot do all out sprints or do really low cadence high power grinding on them, but in every other regard, they are awesome. I have done some threshold work and even some seated sprints on them and, again, they are great. Yes, they are expensive, but they basically take the place of a good trainer and a good set of rollers. I don't feel at all like they are overpriced considering the quality in and of itself. One of the advantages to these which adds value in my opinion is that I don't dread riding indoors. The time goes by faster because you are on rollers, and you don't get off knowing that you could have gotten in a better ride had you ridden the trainer and been bored to death. Beyond that, they are quiet, which isn't always the case for a cheap set of rollers, most trainers, and especially a Cateye. For me, they meet my needs and are more than worth the investment.