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mcteague
11-25-2007, 07:21 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/24/lance-armstrong-eyeing-po_n_73981.html

"Lance Armstrong Eyeing Political Race? Champion Cyclist Hires Political Aides"

Tim McTeague

stevep
11-25-2007, 08:05 AM
just what we need after the last moron from texas.

BumbleBeeDave
11-25-2007, 08:11 AM
. . . that if Lance decided to run for major office, there would be no shortage of former friends and teammates who would come out of the woodwork to testify to what many of us here already know: he's a detail-obsessed control freak who is very difficult to work with or for. Successful politics is all about having the ability to compromise with others you don't like. That's something he would need to develop real fast.

BBD

J.Greene
11-25-2007, 08:17 AM
I'd like to see him try. The big money behind the "politics of destruction" would put an end to him atmo.

JG

Kevan
11-25-2007, 08:30 AM
I'd like to see him try. The big money behind the "politics of destruction" would put an end to him atmo.

JG

but at the state level, I doubt it. At the mayor or govenor level Texans love their own. Even as a congressman he probably would do fine. Given the seat and a few years, who knows what he's capable of doing. There will always be those who will try to discredit him. Heck...that's plain ol' politics; everyone in that soup confronts it.

coopdog
11-25-2007, 09:10 AM
Oh this is great!

"Several said the 36-year-old cyclist and cancer survivor has impressive political talent. And, they say, he took noticeable steps this year to make his public appearance more professional..."

You mean like making out with one of the Olson twins all over NYC!?!?

Fixed
11-25-2007, 09:10 AM
bro is it possible that he might do some good ?
cheers imho

Delpo
11-25-2007, 09:16 AM
bro is it possible that might do some good ?
cheers imho


Yeah guys, could we at least fit into our brains that he could do some good? There is a world after cycling and if he can make it a bit better what is wrong with that? Let's give the negative rethoric a break...

Delpo

Len J
11-25-2007, 09:18 AM
Oh this is great!

"Several said the 36-year-old cyclist and cancer survivor has impressive political talent. And, they say, he took noticeable steps this year to make his public appearance more professional..."

You mean like making out with one of the Olson twins all over NYC!?!?

swiftboat?

Len

93legendti
11-25-2007, 09:29 AM
Yeah guys, could we at least fit into our brains that he could do some good? There is a world after cycling and if he can make it a bit better what is wrong with that? Let's give the negative rethoric a break...

Delpo


Nah, it is so much easier to be negative...cooler too, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixed
bro is it possible that might do some good ?
cheers imho

CNY rider
11-25-2007, 09:58 AM
You think maybe a detail obsessed President might have read an intelligence report in August 2001 that said something about terrorists using airplanes to strike America, rather than hanging out in Texas playing with his dolls?

swoop
11-25-2007, 10:06 AM
i'm just never impressed with folks who operate in the realm of 'you're either with me or against me'... nor do i find guys who can't tolerate depressive affect to be too good at seeing the gestalt.

so to me... these qualities are abundant in politicians and appear to be the stuff of lance. while it helps to be black and white and simple minded when trying want to win at all costs, and to obsess over details no matter the trail of bodies you leave behind does help win a bike racer....
i don't know that it speaks to leadership in that abe lincoln sort of way. and for me... we've peopled the government with politicians and not leaders...

JohnS
11-25-2007, 10:22 AM
You think maybe a detail obsessed President might have read an intelligence report in August 2001 that said something about terrorists using airplanes to strike America, rather than hanging out in Texas playing with his dolls?
Presidents don't have time to read everything. Bush sucks, but not because of that. If you want a detail-oriented micromanager, just look at Jimmy Carter. Nice man, but lousy president...

djg
11-25-2007, 10:26 AM
"Several said the 36-year-old cyclist and cancer survivor has impressive political talent. And, they say, he took noticeable steps this year to make his public appearance more professional..."

You mean like making out with one of the Olson twins all over NYC!?!?

Definitely the more mature and serious of the twins, definitely. By 2012 she really could seem a cross between Jackie Kennedy (O) and Barbara Bush.

And maybe just a little Paris Hilton and a little Lindsay.

1centaur
11-25-2007, 10:45 AM
You think maybe a detail obsessed President might have read an intelligence report in August 2001 that said something about terrorists using airplanes to strike America

Let's remember what intelligence agencies do. They analyze data and put out scenarios; they are not psychics. Very often, different analysts will put out conflicting scenarios based on how they read the data personally or in order to lay out possibilities. They also put out scenarios that might happen but that it would be very difficult to prevent. When the media wish to make politicians look bad, they can get leaked scenarios that "predicted" events from analysts with an "I told you so mentality."

Very often, analysts are completely wrong. The entire Western intelligence machine was wrong on WMD. The "60 Minutes" report made it sound like any person with a pulse could have figured out how many holes there were in the story, but then those guys are known for their bias. As I understand it, Saddam's generals were telling HIM they had WMD so they did not get shot. The bottom line is that intelligence is nothing more than a bunch of maybes and the art is in making judgments about which stories really make sense and in getting lucky on the rest. The history of the CIA shows tons of mistakes and lapses in analysis. There's no reason to think the planes flying into the WTC analysis was any different - just one of a thousand think pieces - would we have installed the TSA, and funded it, and suffered the howls of angry, delayed passengers, based on that piece of analysis?.

As for Lance, very focused, detail oriented, full of energy to accomplish goals, good at leading and persuading, inspirational, a true believer is getting things done rather than just posing. Politics would be a natural for him. OTOH, he'd be begging for doping witnesses (if they exist) to come out of the woodwork to paint him as a liar and hypocrite. He'd be better off working behind the scenes as a paid lobbyist if he has anything he'd rather did not emerge (that might torpedo his foundation).

Ginger
11-25-2007, 11:14 AM
Oh this is great!

"Several said the 36-year-old cyclist and cancer survivor has impressive political talent. And, they say, he took noticeable steps this year to make his public appearance more professional..."

You mean like making out with one of the Olson twins all over NYC!?!?


Oh c'mon. That's a smart move if he's going in to politics. What does she have that he would need for a nice long political life?


Money.

michael white
11-25-2007, 11:20 AM
I think the statement on health care is impressive. I suspect he'd be a good politician. I'd like to see him flash "the look" on the floor of the Senate.

He could win and do some good--and cyclists should be especially happy about that.

A.L.Breguet
11-25-2007, 11:27 AM
Kevan gets it.
He'll do really well at least as far as the U.S. Senate.
Don't forget, millions of potential voters only know him as a cancer survivor/athlete. I don't think the majority of his potential supporters give a rats buttocks about the stories that most of us have heard about him.
Look at Arnold, Reagan, Jesse Ventura, that love boat dude, Sonny Bono, the list goes on. I'm sure some of the celebrities I listed had some major skeletons in their closets, but they still managed to get elected to various offices.

BdaGhisallo
11-25-2007, 11:38 AM
Yep, Intelligence is not always so intelligent! Anyone recall the Bomber Gap scare of the late 50s? US spies at one of the annual May Day military parades in Moscow counted scores and scores of Russian bombers flying overhead in close formations every few minutes. This was reported back to the powers that be in DC and there was a huge fright that the Soviets were ahead in the bomber race and this sparked a massive building effort to get more bombers into US bomber squadrons.

Of course time revealed that the Soviets didn't have anywhere near as many bombers as had been thought. It turns out that they were flying the same few dozen bombers around in circles for hours. The US spies were counting the same bombers over and over again.

So as many incidents can demonstrate, Intelligence efforts are not so, more often than not, and that won't change anytime soon. It's the nature of the game. Extrapolation of great scenarios from small and often imperfect data sets will always lead to problems.

We simply have to be mature enough to recognize this and not slam those who are hobbled by the inherent complexities of the Intelligence game.

Avispa
11-25-2007, 11:50 AM
....and cyclists should be especially happy about that.

???

I don't really see why all of us cyclists! For instance, How many bike lanes have been built in the US because of direct Lance involvement? The cancer thing is one thing, but what's with the other?

However, I think Lance would do a much better job than W, IMO... At least he won't be as sloppy of a Arse. If I had to decide between some of the current morons (both dems and reps) on the front lines now, I'd vote for Lance.

..A..

93legendti
11-25-2007, 12:02 PM
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html

Let's be accurate as to what it says. Rather than "terrorists using airplanes to strike America". It says "We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting" regarding a plan "to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of" US held extremists.

It also talks about strikes against America, plans going back to '97.

Maybe the bit about "terrorists using airplanes to strike America" was in the docs Sandy Berger stole by stuffing in his sock, buried on his property, then shredded -- for which he plead guilty. Of course if the docs implicated Pres. Bush, why would he do that? Hmmm.

DukeHorn
11-25-2007, 12:34 PM
Psst, 93LegendTi.

Invading Afghanistan was chasing bin Laden, invading Iraq wasn't (just a friendly reminder)--but go ahead blame Iraq on Clinton.

"We will be welcomed as liberators"

Who in the CIA made this great assessment? Oh, yeah, it was **** ignoring the CIA, but hey let's blame them anyway.

Anyway, Lance can't do any worse that Kay Bailey or John Cornyn (and compared to the Oklahoma senators he'll be considered brilliant--I mean Inhofe is a complete moron--unless you believe in intelligent design/creationism and then he's a complete genius).

michael white
11-25-2007, 12:44 PM
???

I don't really see why all of us cyclists! For instance, How many bike lanes have been built in the US because of direct Lance involvement? The cancer thing is one thing, but what's with the other?


..A..

LA has had a huge impact on cycling in this country already. For ex.: he made road bikes cool again (just as Jan did in Germany), at least for a few years. Sales and club memberships spiked. Putting someone sympathetic to the concerns of cyclists in an actual position of power would only bring good things to cyclists. It sure couldn't hurt.

93legendti
11-25-2007, 12:45 PM
Psst, 93LegendTi.

Invading Afghanistan was chasing bin Laden, invading Iraq wasn't (just a friendly reminder)--but go ahead blame Iraq on Clinton.

"We will be welcomed as liberators"

Who in the CIA made this great assessment? Oh, yeah, it was **** ignoring the CIA, but hey let's blame them anyway.

Anyway, Lance can't do any worse that Kay Bailey or John Cornyn (and compared to the Oklahoma senators he'll be considered brilliant--I mean Inhofe is a complete moron--unless you believe in intelligent design/creationism and then he's a complete genius).

PSST:
Who twice said NO when he was told "we have Bin Laden, do you want him?
And if you READ Pres. Clinton's '98 speech it was HE who changed OFFICIAL US policy to "regime change" in Iraq. If you read Sen. Kerry's speech the same year, he said we must invade Iraq whether or not Iraq has WMDs.

You're blaming Pres. Bush for taking the advise of geniuses like Sen. Kerry and Pres. Clinton?


I just found it funny that the post above claimed the Pres. should have read an intelligence report in August 2001 that said something about terrorists using airplanes to strike when the report did not say that.

Fat Robert
11-25-2007, 12:45 PM
he is:

tough

single-minded

plays ball when its in his interest

ruthless

photogenic

rich

corporate-savvy:

would probably be a good politician

i can't stand him

but

it takes a big rat to run in the race....

Louis
11-25-2007, 12:54 PM
Successful politics is all about having the ability to compromise with others you don't like.

Not if you do it the Karl Rove way. :no:

Big Dan
11-25-2007, 01:19 PM
LA has had a huge impact on cycling in this country already. For ex.: he made road bikes cool again (just as Jan did in Germany), at least for a few years. Sales and club memberships spiked. Putting someone sympathetic to the concerns of cyclists in an actual position of power would only bring good things to cyclists. It sure couldn't hurt.

***?

mcteague
11-25-2007, 01:49 PM
The real killer would be that he seems not to believe in God. Of course, that is one of the few things I like about him. Now, to my knowledge, he has never said the "A" word but he has come close. Atheists are the one minority that has no chance to be president at this point in time. Well, at least admitted ones. By many accounts our first president did not believe in God so maybe we can catch up to our past some day.

Tim McTeague

Viper
11-25-2007, 01:54 PM
1). Anyone who'd like to make fun of the recent politician from Texas who now wears the big hat, please remember that Congress is polling in the single digits. Yup.

2). Lance heading into politics? I'm sorry, but that's Captain Obvious material; everyone and their wrench knew that Lance Armstrong would someday make a career of politics.

3). Iraq? We went there to protect Israel. Doubt it? Who is begging us to go after their other nemesis, Iran...Israel has a 'list' and it's our 'job' to address it.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=263941

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0614


http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1844140220070919?sp=true

link
11-25-2007, 02:02 PM
wanted: politico ...must have psychopathic tendancies

he'll do fine.

93legendti
11-25-2007, 02:20 PM
1). Anyone who'd like to make fun of the recent politician from Texas who now wears the big hat, please remember that Congress is polling in the single digits. Yup.

2). Lance heading into politics? I'm sorry, but that's Captain Obvious material; everyone and their wrench knew that Lance Armstrong would someday make a career of politics.

3). Iraq? We went there to protect Israel. Doubt it? Who is begging us to go after their other nemesis, Iran...Israel has a 'list' and it's our 'job' to address it.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=263941

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0614


http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1844140220070919?sp=true

Uh, I've dined with 2 of the 8 pilots who have been to downtown Osirak (and back) in '81. The Amerian reaction was "how did they do that?!?" See, the F-16 was not supposed to be able to go that far and back.

Israel doesn't need anyone's help protecting herself. Think Karine A in '02, Latakia in '73, Operation Spring of Youth in '73, Entebbe in '76, Beruit Airport in '68, '69 armored attack using captured Egyptian tanks along the Suez coast, '69 attack on Green Island, Tunisia in '85, Osirak in '81 and the Sept. 6, 2007 raid on Syria.

Viper
11-25-2007, 02:28 PM
Uh, I've dined with 2 of the 8 pilots who have been to downtown Osirak (and back) in '81. The Amerian reaction was "how did they do that?!?" See, the F-16 was not supposed to be able to go that far and back.

Israel doesn't need anyone's help protecting herself. Think Karine A in '02, Latakia in '73, Operation Spring of Youth in '73, Entebbe in '76, Beruit Airport in '68, '69 armored attack using captured Egyptian tanks along the Suez coast, '69 attack on Green Island, Tunisia in '85, Osirak in '81 and the Sept. 6, 2007 raid on Syria.

And they did all of it with our money. Takes money to make any of that happen and support. Hey if you're right, that Israel is the # 1 superpower, let's stop funding her to the tune of $9M US Dollars (btw, a funny one, Israel is asking that we pay them in Euros now, due to the decline of the dollar, lol).

Israel couldn't handle their War of the summer of 2006, could she?

PS. The F-16 you speak of, where was it made?

jerk
11-25-2007, 02:35 PM
i would vote for anyone who publically sucks face with a coked out olsen twin.

lance for president.

jerk

A.L.Breguet
11-25-2007, 02:39 PM
i would vote for anyone who publically sucks face with a coked out olsen twin.

lance for president.

jerk
Good enough for me.
That's 2 votes. See? Snowball.

Viper
11-25-2007, 02:49 PM
i would vote for anyone who publically sucks face with a coked out olsen twin.

lance for president.

jerk

Don't forget Tory Burch (not that she's anything special atmo).

Seems he likes chicks with huge jaws/chins.

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/celebrities/people/dating/lance-armstrong.htm

93legendti
11-25-2007, 02:58 PM
And they did all of it with our money. Takes money to make any of that happen and support. Hey if you're right, that Israel is the # 1 superpower, let's stop funding her to the tune of $9M US Dollars (btw, a funny one, Israel is asking that we pay them in Euros now, due to the decline of the dollar, lol).

Israel couldn't handle their War of the summer of 2006, could she?

PS. The F-16 you speak of, where was it made?

No, you're talking nonsense. The avionics/electronics in the F-16 are Israeli designed, built, paid for and supplied. The support didn't start until after Camp David in '77.

As far as 2006, Israel flattened Lebanon--Lebanon's damages were 10 x worse in casualites and economic losses. Israel captured territory in Lebanon, not vice versa. 15,000 foreign troops now inhabit Lebanon, not Israel. 10,000 people fled Lebanon during the war, while Israel's immigration was up 10% for the year and during the war Israel set single day immigration records. Israel's economy is booming, Lebanon's is billions in debt. A week after the war hotels in Israel's north were booked up. In Southern Lebanon bridges have yet to be prepared and there is NO tourism.

Not one person in Lebanon is calling for another round. On the other hand, israel has learned and applied her lessons (there are lessons learned in EVERY war). Syria and Assad watched the war closley and remembered what happened after Israel smoked 867 Russian tanks in 4 days on the Golan (using only 177 tanks --mostly British Centurions!): Israel then worked its way down her long list of Syria's vulnerable economic and military targets and sent Syria into a long recession. Iran was watching too. Crude, unguided missiles are a poor substiute fo a combined arms approach.

Nisrallah lost control of Hezbollah's military as a result of his blunder: "If I had known Israel would have reacted as she did, I never would have ordered the capture of the soldiers". Iran no longer trusts him to make military decisions since the billions they spent in Lebanon was for naught.

After 6 years of weekly Katusha attacks, Hezbollah has not attacked Israel once since the August 2006 cease fire.

I guess if you ignore facts and make it up as you go along you can say anything--until someone with knowledge of the facts comes along.

jerk
11-25-2007, 03:16 PM
Uh, I've dined with 2 of the 8 pilots who have been to downtown Osirak (and back) in '81. The Amerian reaction was "how did they do that?!?" See, the F-16 was not supposed to be able to go that far and back.

Israel doesn't need anyone's help protecting herself. Think Karine A in '02, Latakia in '73, Operation Spring of Youth in '73, Entebbe in '76, Beruit Airport in '68, '69 armored attack using captured Egyptian tanks along the Suez coast, '69 attack on Green Island, Tunisia in '85, Osirak in '81 and the Sept. 6, 2007 raid on Syria.

yeah the united states should just stop supporting israel with massive infusions of aid and material and let the country take care of itself....your grandiose tough guy delusions belittle the actions and sufferings of real people in real wars and oversimplifies a political reality both in the united states and in the middle east.

no body cares that you feel like a tough guy. when the french withdrew support from israel the us stepped in and the country would not exist without the support of its largest benefactor. this doesn't fit into some whacked out right wing delusion of some sort of zionest superman....but max nordau you are not. real world should politics not be a football game or an action movie with heroes and villains you can cheer for. if they become that one is on the road to fascist delusion.

jerk

93legendti
11-25-2007, 03:24 PM
yeah the united states should just stop supporting israel with massive infusions of aid and material and let the country take care of itself....your grandiose tough guy delusions belittle the actions and sufferings of real people in real wars and oversimplifies a political reality both in the united states and in the middle east.

no body cares that you feel like a tough guy. when the french withdrew support from israel the us stepped in and the country would not exist without the support of its largest benefactor. this doesn't fit into some whacked out right wing delusion of some sort of zionest superman....but max nordau you are not. real world should politics not be a football game or an action movie with heroes and villains you can cheer for. if they become that one is on the road to fascist delusion.

jerk

I know, Craig hates it when some one else takes some of his "I am the only outspoken person here" thunder. I guess now you're back and you're sig at the FF (which must be deader than dead) is just another Craig saying, to be taken for what it's worth: that of a wrench whose bored on a slow Sunday afternoon.

BTW, it is "Zionist", not "zionest". G-d, I hate it when someone who thinks there smart prints something stupid. Maybe you were referring to Nes Ziona--you know, where the Israeli flag first flew in 1883. I doubt it...

obtuse
11-25-2007, 03:28 PM
I know, Craig hates it when some one else takes some of his "I am the only outspoken person here" thunder. I guess now you're back and you're sig at the FF (which must be deader than dead) is just another Craig saying, to be taken for what it's worth: that of a wrench whose bored on a slow Sunday afternoon.

BTW, it is "Zionist", not "zionest". G-d, I hate it when someone who thinks there smart prints something stupid. Maybe you were referring to Nes Ziona--you know, where the Israeli flag first flew in 1883. I doubt it...


you're picking on my spelling? how cute. maybe i think "there smart" too.

jerk

93legendti
11-25-2007, 03:31 PM
you're picking on my spelling? how cute. maybe i think "there smart" too.

jerk

I was trying to help you, you're probably falling asleep on the counter over there...thought it would keep you sharp and alert. I think it worked. At least I know what "Zionist" means without quickly checking Google...

Here's a hint: It's a compliment.

Gald you're not "thru over there".

Fixed
11-25-2007, 03:31 PM
everybody wants Israeli nobody wants war

imho cheers
who wouldn't want to be there in the holidays and..
nobody wants to see their or our kids die

Viper
11-25-2007, 03:32 PM
No, you're talking nonsense. The avionics/electronics in the F-16 are Israeli designed, built, paid for and supplied. The support didn't start until after Camp David in '77.

As far as 2006, Israel flattened Lebanon--Lebanon's damages were 10 x worse in casualites and economic losses. Israel captured territory in Lebanon, not vice versa. 15,000 foreign troops now inhabit Lebanon, not Israel. 10,000 people fled Lebanon during the war, while Israel's immigration was up 10% for the year and during the war Israel set single day immigration records. Israel's economy is booming, Lebanon's is billions in debt. A week after the war hotels in Israel's north were booked up. In Southern Lebanon bridges have yet to be prepared and there is NO tourism.

Not one person in Lebanon is calling for another round. On the other hand, israel has learned and applied her lessons (there are lessons learned in EVERY war). Syria and Assad watched the war closley and remembered what happened after Israel smoked 867 Russian tanks in 4 days on the Golan (using only 177 tanks --mostly British Centurions!): Israel then worked its way down her long list of Syria's vulnerable economic and military targets and sent Syria into a long recession. Iran was watching too. Crude, unguided missiles are a poor substiute fo a combined arms approach.

Nisrallah lost control of Hezbollah's military as a result of his blunder: "If I had known Israel would have reacted as she did, I never would have ordered the capture of the soldiers". Iran no longer trusts him to make military decisions since the billions they spent in Lebanon was for naught.

After 6 years of weekly Katusha attacks, Hezbollah has not attacked Israel once since the August 2006 cease fire.

I guess if you ignore facts and make it up as you go along you can say anything--until someone with knowledge of the facts comes along.

Thank you for advancing and furthering my point of view.

I, like the UN and many around the word were appalled and shocked at the Summer of 2006 War, it was disgusting. Israel went to War because two of their soldiers were kidnapped, last I checked the two soldiers have never been returned. Also, Israel itself admits it's 2006 was a "Failure". Then Israel admits that summer's war was planned months in advance (and had nothing to do with two kidnapped soldiers):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6431637.stm

You offered this, "As far as 2006, Israel flattened Lebanon--Lebanon's damages were 10 x worse in casualites and economic losses. Israel captured territory in Lebanon, not vice versa. 15,000 foreign troops now inhabit Lebanon, not Israel. 10,000 people fled Lebanon during the war, while Israel's immigration was up 10% for the year and during the war Israel set single day immigration records. Israel's economy is booming, Lebanon's is billions in debt. A week after the war hotels in Israel's north were booked up. In Southern Lebanon bridges have yet to be prepared and there is NO tourism"...it only shows how out of control Irsael is.

Thanks, you further prove what a train wreck/disaster that War was. Olmert called the War a "Failure" and he's facing a censure while his approval ratings dipped to single digits:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1195127530954&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2891072.ece


That War backfired, "Israel’s Failed Objectives...Hezbollah’s Risen Stock
Israel’s objectives were not met. Hezbollah’s military capability was temporarily diminished but not destroyed, and its political stock rose in the eyes of Lebanese, including in the eyes of Christians who had previously opposed Hezbollah. Syria and Iran have reportedly restocked Hezbollah’s arsenal of missiles. Hezbollah’s boycott of the Lebanese government, which is Western-backed, has created a political stalemate, but also strengthened Hezbollah’s hand as a force in Lebanon’s future. The 2006 Lebanon War, in sum, killed many, destroyed much, but advanced neither Israel’s objectives nor Lebanon’s. Only Hezbollah seemed to emerge from the conflict stronger than before it began, even though Lebanese army troops are now deployed in south Lebanon. With tensions still high between Israel, Syria and Hezbollah, the immediate future is uncertain. Within Lebanon, where presidential elections are slated for the latter part of 2007, the future is even more uncertain as murmurs of civil war, should the election fail to break the current stalemate, have been echoing in most ears."



In 1967 America had a plan to possibly attack Israel, I'd like to see us do it tomorrow. Give the land back to it's owners.

In 1973, Israel was on her heels, about to lose the War, it was on 7 October 1973, the second day of the Yom Kippur War, when Israeli Minister of Defense Moshe Dayan said, "We are in the most critical hour since the day we reestablished the new nation. The war is almost lost for us."

In October, 1973, Israel had to threaten to use nukes, as she was losing so badly and had America not given her supplies starting October 9th, she would have either used her nukes or lost the War. "On the afternoon of 6 October 1973, Egypt and Syria attacked Israel in a coordinated surprise attack, beginning the Yom Kippur War. Caught with only regular forces on duty, augmented by reservists with a low readiness level, Israeli front lines crumbled. By early afternoon on 7 October, no effective forces were in the southern Golan Heights and Syrian forces had reached the edge of the plateau, overlooking the Jordan River. This crisis brought Israel to its second nuclear alert.

Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, obviously not at his best at a press briefing, was, according to Time magazine, rattled enough to later tell the prime minister that “this is the end of the third temple,” referring to an impending collapse of the state of Israel. “Temple” was also the code word for nuclear weapons. Prime Minister Golda Meir and her “kitchen cabinet” made the decision on the night of 8 October. The Israelis assembled 13 twenty-kiloton atomic bombs. The number and in fact the entire story was later leaked by the Israelis as a great psychological warfare tool. Although most probably plutonium devices, one source reports they were enriched uranium bombs. The Jericho missiles at Hirbat Zachariah and the nuclear strike F-4s at Tel Nof were armed and prepared for action against Syrian and Egyptian targets. They also targeted Damascus with nuclear capable long-range artillery although it is not certain they had nuclear artillery shells.[62]

U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was notified of the alert several hours later on the morning of 9 October. The U.S. decided to open an aerial resupply pipeline to Israel, and Israeli aircraft began picking up supplies that day. Although stockpile depletion remained a concern, the military situation stabilized on October 8th and 9th as Israeli reserves poured into the battle and averted disaster."

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:VuDkmENrw74J:www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm+israel+1973+war+america&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

swoop
11-25-2007, 03:38 PM
this thang is gonna get moderated for the politics in spite of the good intentions... (not by me mind you.. i just eat porn)....
so while we're at it let me just say CAMPY RULES.

Fat Robert
11-25-2007, 03:39 PM
lets get this back to normal:

your carbon bike sucks mule nads

my steel bike is better

discuss.

stevep
11-25-2007, 03:39 PM
You're blaming Pres. Bush for taking the advise of geniuses like Sen. Kerry and Pres. Clinton?
.

bush is a fool.
look at the wreckage that he will leave behind.
moral, military personel, fiscal, even the operation of the military.
my god.
he's a f'in disaster.

will take someone with wisdom to drag us out of this morass.


but i recommend that you keep blaming the iraq war on bill clinton...as did bush himself... the man has never made a mistake in his life
( that he has taken responsibility for )

thats a constructive approach to solving the problem.

Viper
11-25-2007, 03:40 PM
this thang is gonna get moderated for the politics in spite of the good intentions... (not by me mind you.. i just eat porn)....
so while we're at it let me just say CAMPY RULES.

Campy alloy or Campy carbon? :D

Viper
11-25-2007, 03:41 PM
bush is a fool.
look at the wreckage that he will leave behind.
moral, military personel, fiscal, even the operation of the military.
my god.
he's a f'in disaster.

will take someone with wisdom to drag us out of this morass.


but i recommend that you keep blaming the iraq war on bill clinton...as did bush himself... the man has never made a mistake in his life
( that he has taken responsibility for )

thats a constructive approach to solving the problem.

Ron Paul FTW. :beer:

jerk
11-25-2007, 03:45 PM
I was trying to help you, you're probably falling asleep on the counter over there...thought it would keep you sharp and alert. I think it worked. At least I know what "Zionist" means without quickly checking Google...

Here's a hint: It's a compliment.

Gald you're not "thru over there".


thanks. i know what zionist means too. i get all wet for most 19th century european nationalisms....especially those nice lefty ones. :rolleyes:

jerk

93legendti
11-25-2007, 03:50 PM
Thank you for advancing and furthering my point of view.

I, like the UN and many around the word were appalled and shocked at the Summer of 2006 War, it was disgusting. Israel went to War because two of their soldiers were kidnapped, last I checked the two soldiers have never been returned. Also, Israel itself admits it's 2006 was a "Failure". Then Israel admits that summer's war was planned months in advance (and had nothing to do with two kidnapped soldiers):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6431637.stm

You offered this, "As far as 2006, Israel flattened Lebanon--Lebanon's damages were 10 x worse in casualites and economic losses. Israel captured territory in Lebanon, not vice versa. 15,000 foreign troops now inhabit Lebanon, not Israel. 10,000 people fled Lebanon during the war, while Israel's immigration was up 10% for the year and during the war Israel set single day immigration records. Israel's economy is booming, Lebanon's is billions in debt. A week after the war hotels in Israel's north were booked up. In Southern Lebanon bridges have yet to be prepared and there is NO tourism"...it only shows how out of control Irsael is.

Thanks, you further prove what a train wreck/disaster that War was. Olmert called the War a "Failure" and he's facing a censure while his approval ratings dipped to single digits:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1195127530954&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2891072.ece


That War backfired, "Israel’s Failed Objectives...Hezbollah’s Risen Stock
Israel’s objectives were not met. Hezbollah’s military capability was temporarily diminished but not destroyed, and its political stock rose in the eyes of Lebanese, including in the eyes of Christians who had previously opposed Hezbollah. Syria and Iran have reportedly restocked Hezbollah’s arsenal of missiles. Hezbollah’s boycott of the Lebanese government, which is Western-backed, has created a political stalemate, but also strengthened Hezbollah’s hand as a force in Lebanon’s future. The 2006 Lebanon War, in sum, killed many, destroyed much, but advanced neither Israel’s objectives nor Lebanon’s. Only Hezbollah seemed to emerge from the conflict stronger than before it began, even though Lebanese army troops are now deployed in south Lebanon. With tensions still high between Israel, Syria and Hezbollah, the immediate future is uncertain. Within Lebanon, where presidential elections are slated for the latter part of 2007, the future is even more uncertain as murmurs of civil war, should the election fail to break the current stalemate, have been echoing in most ears."



In 1967 America had a plan to possibly attack Israel, I'd like to see us do it tomorrow. Give the land back to it's owners.

In 1973, Israel was on her heels, about to lose the War, it was on 7 October 1973, the second day of the Yom Kippur War, when Israeli Minister of Defense Moshe Dayan said, "We are in the most critical hour since the day we reestablished the new nation. The war is almost lost for us."

In October, 1973, Israel had to threaten to use nukes, as she was losing so badly and had America not given her supplies starting October 9th, she would have either used her nukes or lost the War. "On the afternoon of 6 October 1973, Egypt and Syria attacked Israel in a coordinated surprise attack, beginning the Yom Kippur War. Caught with only regular forces on duty, augmented by reservists with a low readiness level, Israeli front lines crumbled. By early afternoon on 7 October, no effective forces were in the southern Golan Heights and Syrian forces had reached the edge of the plateau, overlooking the Jordan River. This crisis brought Israel to its second nuclear alert.

Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, obviously not at his best at a press briefing, was, according to Time magazine, rattled enough to later tell the prime minister that “this is the end of the third temple,” referring to an impending collapse of the state of Israel. “Temple” was also the code word for nuclear weapons. Prime Minister Golda Meir and her “kitchen cabinet” made the decision on the night of 8 October. The Israelis assembled 13 twenty-kiloton atomic bombs. The number and in fact the entire story was later leaked by the Israelis as a great psychological warfare tool. Although most probably plutonium devices, one source reports they were enriched uranium bombs. The Jericho missiles at Hirbat Zachariah and the nuclear strike F-4s at Tel Nof were armed and prepared for action against Syrian and Egyptian targets. They also targeted Damascus with nuclear capable long-range artillery although it is not certain they had nuclear artillery shells.[62]

U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was notified of the alert several hours later on the morning of 9 October. The U.S. decided to open an aerial resupply pipeline to Israel, and Israeli aircraft began picking up supplies that day. Although stockpile depletion remained a concern, the military situation stabilized on October 8th and 9th as Israeli reserves poured into the battle and averted disaster."

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:VuDkmENrw74J:www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm+israel+1973+war+america&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
I could go on all day about your nonsense. But I'll just pick one out:
The '73 War ended with Israel capturing net territory in Syria and Egypt. Israel's destroyed/killed tanks, planes, boats and soldiers on an order of 5 to 1, despite being outmanned 3 to 1 and outgunned as much as 12 to 1.

The war ended on October 24, 1973 with Israel 30kms from Damascus and shelling the city, having repulsed armies from Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Jordan as well as Syria's army on the Golan. Syria had to beg its Arab brothers to due their "Arab Duty" to save itself from Israel.

Israel, on the same day was 60 km from Cairo and had encircled 250,000 Egyptians--the bulk of their 2nd and 3rd armies. Russia threatened to land and break the stranglehold. THAT'S what ended the war,

(Probably why the US Army still studies Israel's tank victories from that War. I should know, the hero of one of those battles, who lectured on the subject in the US, just spent 3 days with us.)
That's called victory for Israel. Actually, as Maj. Gen. George S. Patton (Patton's son) stated: the most fearsome devastation ever recorded and the greatest tank battle in history.

Here's a simple rule: the U.N. NEVER stops Israel when it is losing.

michael white
11-25-2007, 03:52 PM
also, everyone knows Bush rides Trek carbon.
nuff said.

Fat Robert
11-25-2007, 03:55 PM
the only people who know whether or not lance is, um, crooked:

kristin

cheryl

ashley

matthew

Viper
11-25-2007, 04:10 PM
Here's a simple rule: Israel bombs the UN posts when it is losing and even the UN can't stop Israel. Only Russia can stop Israel as they did a few months ago when Putin had breakfast, lunch and dinner with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and announced to the world, "Can't touch this." Olmert ran to Moscow the next day to have lunch with Putin...

Fixed. :)

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1022-02.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

93legendti
11-25-2007, 04:32 PM
Fixed. :)

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1022-02.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

Uh, would you mind deleting your "quote" of a post I never made? Thanks so much. :rolleyes: