All Steel: Serotta vs IF vs Pegoretti vs Kirk

[amator]

I know many of you own and have owned some of these steel beauties. I really like an opinion of the ride characteristics and what makes you think they are special.

To start with maybe
1) Fierte Steel (is this the only all steel left?)
2) Peg marcelo
3) IF crown jewel steel
4)Kirk frameworks terraplane

Feel free to add any other similarly priced off the shelf frame.. De Rosa Corum, Gios Torino etc etc

[DarrenCT]

i dont think the serotta has a steel fork option btw...

[amator]

i dont think the serotta has a steel fork option btw...
Yup, doesnt look like they do/did. Neither does pegoretti i must say.

[Sandy]

Relative to Serotta road bikes:

1. The 2008 steel Fierte is not all steel. the seat stays are carbon, as is the fork.

2. There are 2 Coeur D'Acier models, which are custom framesets-
a. SE model, which may be purchased either with an all steel frame or with a steel frame with the exception of the carbon seat stays. Both are sold as framesets with carbon forks.
b. GS model, which is steel with the exception of the carbon seat stays and carbon fork.

So, I believe that the only all steel road bike frame that Serotta produces is the SE model of the Coeur D'Acier with steel seat stays. It should be noted that I am excluding the 2008 CX ll SE model which can be purchased with an all steel frame, or all steel with the exception of the carbon seat stays. I did not include that because it is a tt bike, and you were asking about regular road bikes.


Steel Serotta Sandy

[Fat Robert]

kirk pacenti can design and have built a sweet steel frame.

bikelugs.com

[Grant McLean]

Neither does pegoretti i must say.

Yes, Pegoretti does make a steel fork!

-g

[dirtdigger88]

they're all great bikes-

the only question is which one do you like/ want

see isnt cycling fun

Jason

[Fixed]

I know many of you own and have owned some of these steel beauties. I really like an opinion of the ride characteristics and what makes you think they are special.

To start with maybe
1) Fierte Steel (is this the only all steel left?)
2) Peg marcelo
3) IF crown jewel steel
4)Kirk frameworks terraplane

Feel free to add any other similarly priced off the shelf frame.. De Rosa Corum, Gios Torino etc etc
cda can be all steel frame

[amator]

Yes, Pegoretti does make a steel fork!

-g

For the marcelo?? i didnt know that it was an option.. thought the only steel fork was the double crown for the lugged luigino

[amator]

they're all great bikes-

the only question is which one do you like/ want

see isnt cycling fun

Jason

I bet they all are but they must be different to ride.
I'm probably considering something in a modern steel soon and hopeful to find a gently used one within my budget. I reckon the frame in full steel and dont really mind a carbon fork

[Kirk007]

I have two of them. One built for riding almost everywhere - enough clearance for wider tires (32-35), and fenders; designed to go well on paved and dirt roads in tall types of weather. Built with (almost) all metal, no carbon bits. I suspect this bike will long outlast me regardless how hard I ride it. It rides like, well, what I asked for: stable, predictable, comfortable but not in any way slow. It really seems to be happiest being ridden hard on dirt. Just what I would expect from someone who lives in Bozeman!

My second has S&S couplers and is a travel bike. My size and this requirement dictated a slope design and fillet brazing rather than lugs. It is gorgeous; it was one of Dave's show bikes last year. It rides exactly like I asked Dave to build it. Very similar to bike no. 1 but with a nod to the fact that it wouldn't be going on many dirt roads (although it still has enough tire clearance to throw something wide on should I choose to go somewhere like Deerfield. To me, it is just a slight bit quicker feeling than bike no. 1; again this is what I anticipated and asked for. Maybe its the sloped top tube effect that Tom Kellog talks about. I'm sure Dave can build you a bike to do whatever you want it to do - full on racer to randoneer.

So, as said earlier, what do you like, and there's more to it than ride. I like the terraplane stays, and Dave's lugged and the fillet brazing. I appreciate that Dave has tons of experience building exceptional bikes. Most of all I appreciate how easy he is to work with. As DBRK says, his bikes have only peers and I would say the same about the man.

Now, I still lust after a Peg and if I wanted a full on race bike it would be hard not to go to the man who built bikes for Indurain etc; who brings the Italian flair and tradition and an obvious passion to his bikes. There are many threads describing the ride of a Marcelo; they all sound a consistent theme: stiff, responsive, steel race bike.

You've listed some good ones, there are others of course. Once you know what ride you want, I'd suggest talk to the builders and see who is speaking your language and that you like, settle in on a look and have fun. Chances are it won't be your last...

Greg

[Ken Robb]

I had a CSI w/F1 fork, sold it to a Forumite who sent me a rave review after riding it. The F1 was designed to ride like a good steel fork. A stock CSI or a Cd'A built to "standard" specs will ride like a race bike without crossing the fine line (for me) of too fast twitchy handling. My stock Legend handled the same with a slightly smoother ride.

My understanding (never rode one) is that a Marcello might be even a bit more racy.

My Terraplane was built for all-day comfort. It is only slightly less racy than the CSI (same designer/builder perhaps?) I'm guessing its tubing is slightly heavier than CSI. The TP rear end does ride softer than the steel fork at the front of the Kirk.

I rode one stock steel Crown Jewel and did not like it as well as these other bikes but I would not say it was a bad bike. I think a Forumite bought the one I rode and didn't keep it very long?

What Kirk offers that I like is a frame/fork designed for standard reach brakes. For me they allow tires up to 35mm with no downside if I want to run 23mm. tires.

[vaxn8r]

I know many of you own and have owned some of these steel beauties. I really like an opinion of the ride characteristics and what makes you think they are special.

To start with maybe
1) Fierte Steel (is this the only all steel left?)
2) Peg marcelo
3) IF crown jewel steel
4)Kirk frameworks terraplane

Feel free to add any other similarly priced off the shelf frame.. De Rosa Corum, Gios Torino etc etc
If you want all steel including fork I'd look at IF, Kirk, Tom Kellog, Bill Davidson, John Slawta/Landshark, Rock Lobster, Steve Hampsten. That guy Zanc builds a pretty bike as do Richard Sachs and Sacha White, though you've got a bit of time to think about it if you choose the latter two.

I'm sure there are dozens of guys who could build a great steel race bike off the usual list if you're willing to dig a little deeper into your research.

[bigbill]

For the marcelo?? i didnt know that it was an option.. thought the only steel fork was the double crown for the lugged luigino

The high end stainless Resporium (sp) is available handpainted by Dario with a 1 1/8" steel fork. I think with the fork it retails for around $4500 which may make it the most expensive steel frame ever. I want one. I sent an email off to Competitive to see if the fork would be available seperately but I haven't received a response. My BLE rides very well with a reynolds, but the purist in me wants a steel fork. I am bigbill, it's not like I'm worried about weight.

[Grant McLean]

For the marcelo?? i didnt know that it was an option.. thought the only steel fork was the double crown for the lugged luigino

You can use a 1" steel fork on any Pegoretti frame with a 1 1/8" headtube.

Just use a Chris King devolution headset. The cups are 1 1/8" for the frame,
and the steerer spacers are for 1". Easy peasy.

http://www.chrisking.com/headsets/hds_devo.html



-g

[Marco]

+1 for Dave.......You Won't Go Wrong




I am sure the others are great also but I will limit my comments to what I have experienced personally.

[Climb01742]

The high end stainless Resporium (sp) is available handpainted by Dario with a 1 1/8" steel fork. I think with the fork it retails for around $4500 which may make it the most expensive steel frame ever. I want one.

bigbill, no, man, you_need_one of these. :D i'm waiting until i have a few more rides on it for a full report, but based on the first 2 rides, 5+ hours, heaven on earth may be a reality. put your order in now, brother.

[Fixed]

they are all state of the art imho
cheers

[Fat Robert]

state of the art

rode the rock lobster yesterday

tange prestige

lugs

normal-sized tubes

state of the art

yup sir

[bigbill]

bigbill, no, man, you_need_one of these. :D i'm waiting until i have a few more rides on it for a full report, but based on the first 2 rides, 5+ hours, heaven on earth may be a reality. put your order in now, brother.

Of course I need one. The problem is the new house. I just spent a Marcelo on a 52" plasma TV to mount above the fireplace. The whole house water filter will run me around a Chorus grouppo and the new 10 kwatt generator will cost me a set of Boras. Living in the sticks is quiet and peaceful, but isolation comes with a cost. I ride a BLE with 03 Record and have a Gunnar Crosshairs with Chorus. I have four road frames (including a Fina Estampa and a MX Leader) boxed up in the garage with no parts to build them up. Maybe next year.

[jimcav]

in my riding i find it does improve limbing and on one occassion, cornering--otherwise, i rarely corner hard enough fo it to matter. in this case i was going fast down, to a curve, i was taking it a bit wide, saw there was moss on my current path and had to cut it harder (or else the cross into oncoming lane)--rough and gritty surface and i really think the stays helped the bike track.

jim

[amator]

Of course I need one. The problem is the new house. I just spent a Marcelo on a 52" plasma TV to mount above the fireplace. The whole house water filter will run me around a Chorus grouppo and the new 10 kwatt generator will cost me a set of Boras. Living in the sticks is quiet and peaceful, but isolation comes with a cost. I ride a BLE with 03 Record and have a Gunnar Crosshairs with Chorus. I have four road frames (including a Fina Estampa and a MX Leader) boxed up in the garage with no parts to build them up. Maybe next year.

was going to ask you whether the BLE is harsher than the MXL... but i see you dont have them up and running side to side