OT- King the rescue Pit Bull

[Sandy]

I was just at the shelter and spent a few hours with King, the only pit bull at the no kill shelter. He was taken by animal control as his owners were not taking proper care of him. Unfortunately, he has been at the shelter for some months now and has no applictions. He is isolated in a large cage at the end of the facility and often has a drape in front of his cage as he will bark and/or growl at some patrons and scare them. The drape only isolates him more from the other dogs and people with whom he could interact.

King is a very strong 60 pound pit. He looks as if he is on steroids, having a large head and a deceptively well muscled body, especially since he gets minimal exercise. Most of the staff and volunteers who have spent the time to get to know him, think that he is a gem. I do too. I took him on a short walk today (he is hesitant to go too far from the shelter) and then spent time with him in the front office area and then lots of time with him in his cage.

He shows no dog aggressiveness, and hardly pays attention to other dogs. He loves people that he knows and likes, but often barks/growls at those he does not know. I feel very relaxed with him. He licks you to a fault, is completely non-mouthy, affectionate,plays well, likes to lie down next to you or on you, can be handled all over with ease, does not guard his food or toys, and is very good natured. He needs obedience training as he knows few commands and has the ability to pull very strongly on his leash- hunkers down and pulls as pits sometimes do.

I have no dog at home and would adopt King myself, but my wife does not want the responsibility of a dog and my brother-in-law would undoubtedly be intimidated and frightened of him. King would certainly understand that communication and I don't believe that they would mesh well. I am becoming more attached to him, as I visit him at the shelter. I am going to try to spend time with him most every day, if possible, and make his life better and help socialize him and hinder the deterioration that dogs often go through with lengthly shelter stays.

Not sure why I am posting this on the forum....guess it is because I really like him and hope that he ultimately receives a loving home. It saddens me to see such a wonderful dog not be adopted as so many others are. He is a grand dog. Many think that pits should be banned and I certainly understand and am sensitive to why that is a common position taken, especially because of some horrific pit attacks on adults, kids, cats, and other dogs. But just like bikes, cyclists, and people, some are wonderful and some are not. Unfortunately, pit owners are often very irresponsible. Some are superior caring owners. Many, sadly, are not.


Sandy

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . of all the idiots who have trained pit bulls to be nothing more than macho penis substitutes on leashes. That's a shame. But I go with the percentages and just avoid any pit bull walking down the street toward me. That's because I literally never know whether the one being walked toward me is a good dog--or one of the "other" ones. I just don't know, so I take the safest course, and dogs like King pay the price. Maybe that makes us both victims.

If anyone can find someone locally and show them what a gem King is, it's you Sandy. Don't give up!

BBD

[Sandy]

I certainly understand the position you take. I actually try to intearact with almost any one that I encounter. Pits were bred for dog fighting, but that was many generations ago. Pits often are very dog aggressive, but are normally very people oriented and are often loyal and affectionate to people....unless one is the outcome of poor breeding and/or are raised by irresponsible owners.

They should only be kept by experienced dog people who will treat them in a loving and caring manner.

American Staffordshire Terrier Sandy

[handsomerob]

I hate to be a wet blanket... but as an insurance agent I would recommend any interested parties check their homeowners insurance carrier to see if owning a pit bull would be a violation of their policy.

[Sandy]

I hate to be a wet blanket... but as an insurance agent I would recommend any interested parties check their homeowners insurance carrier to see if owning a pit bull would be a violation of their policy.

You are not being a wet blanket. You are being very realistic. It is sometimes extremely difficult to get homeowners insurance for pits and even other breeds. Your suggestion is a must for any potential owner of a pit.



Sandy

[Blue Jays]

Sandy, hopefully things will turn out well for King with the correct adoptive family. I've known two Pit Bulls in my life...both needed proper initial "introductions" to strangers, but once familiar, they were friends for life.
Both were VERY affectionate dogs who wanted to climb into the laps of their owners to watch television...even though one was fifty pounds and the other about sixty pounds.

[chuckroast]

It is a sad commentary that there are more good dogs out there than there are good dog owners.

[Lifelover]

How much do you know about his history other than he was neglected? In this day and age when I read your story I think "Dog fighting". However statistically it was most likely not the case.

Having as much info as possible about his background could be a great help with finding someone to adopt him.

[Dekonick]

I have a rescue pit mix -

65 lbs - looks mean as heck. Barks at strangers, guards the kids like no other. If you ever meet him he is a gem. He was found by my brother in law tied to a fence with electric cord - (he was a puppy then) nobody came to claim him for a full day so he took him and put him in the back yard. He played well with the other three dogs, and before long he was lounging in the house with the family - but three (four with my gem) dogs was already alot to feed, handle, walk, etc...

He attempted to adopt him out - little luck. People are afraid of pits and pit mix pups - we took him and have never looked back.

He has that pit look
he has a heart like few dogs - he loves all of us, especially the kids.

Don't fear a pit, the breed has a bad rap.

Ask Sandy, he has met my pup - any reason to fear him? :no:

Sounds like this dog of yours is another keeper - anyone looking for a friend?

[Viper]

Sandy,

I am one of the biggest dog lovers. Always have been. That said, I take HUGE issue with regards to Pit Bulls. In fact there are several breeds on my list, the pit bull is at the top. On July 8th, 2007, a pit bull raped a two year old baby, a human. On June 4, 2005, a twelve year old boy was killed by his family's pit bulls. On uly 28, 2006, a 71 yer old woman was mauled to death while gardening in her yard, the neighbor's dog lept the fence and killed her. On December 2, 2003, a group of pit bulls attacked and killed a 40 year old woman in Denver, Colorado. This past summer some pitbulls killed their owner, a 42 year old woman.

Sandy, no spin or marketing will change my mind here; owning a pitbull is akin to owning a Mako shark. Pit Bulls are very dangerous and I do not buy for a nickel or a penny the notion, "It's the owner's fault" when a person is killed and why? The majority of those attacked by pit bulls are the owners and their families!

This pit bull you say growls and barks at those he does not know? Odds are this dog will be put down.

One only needs to look at the history, the gentic history of Rottys, Pit Bulls, Mastiffs etc to know what it is they are owning, buying and risking.


THis website is disturbing, but it shows the reality in an honest fashion:

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm


Here are the links to the attacks in my post:


http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=49447

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2248330&page=1

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1032428/posts

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/04/MNGCUD3O661.DTL

http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/latest-journalism-news-updates-90.php

[BURCH]

Sandy,

I feel your pain. It is hard to see any dog left without someone to love them, but I side with Viper on this one.

The name Pitt Bull is a generic name. Is this dog a Rotweiler (Rots fall under the Pitt Bull category)? The issue with Rots is that their breeding is sketchy. Some breeders have breed the dogs to have highly aggressive tendencies. So I would want to find out if it is a Rottweiler and if you can find out where it came from (which is doubtful). Rots were the number two breed of dog named in fatal human attacks from '79 to '98*.

* stat taken from CDC report. (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf)

I don't want to leave this breed out to dry because I have met very happy Pitt Bull/Rotweiler owners, but to not know the breeder of this dog is a HUGE red flag. You have no idea what instincts this dog has been breed to have or if it was abused.

[Blue Jays]

Viper, I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input.
It also appears to be a media-driven frenzy against these dogs and anytime a dog bites a person the words "Pit Bull" miraculously seem to find their way into the newspaper account since they make for better headlines.

[Sandy]

Please let me comment on your comments, with the realization that you know a lot about pits (I have not looked at your links yet) and have made up your mind about the breeds(more than one).

First, it is highly unlikely that King will be put down, as you seem to think. He is in a no-kill shelter, is really liked by staff and volunteers that know him, and is especially liked by the director of the shelters (one a no-kill, one not), which have a remarkably high adoption rate- at the top of shelters, recently, in the country. In addition, he was evaluated favorably for temperament.

Dogs bark and dogs growl. That is part of how they communicate. Let me tell you about my first encounter with King, some weeks back. I walked up to his cage and slowly approached. His body and verbal communication was not good- He elicited a low volume growl that continued as he stared at me out of the sides of his eyes ( must be wary of a dog which does that). I sat down on the ground on the outside of his cage for a short while and did not look directly into his eyes. I slowly got up and returned a few minutes later with a few biscuits, and sat down by the cage again. The growl was still there, but at a little lower intensity. But this time, just a few minutes after the first encounter, he was not as rigid or upright in position, and although he was still growling, he seemed to communicate mixed feelings. He slowly moved to the front of the cage and placed his body against the front as close to me as possible. It appeared that he wanted me to touch him. Carefully I started to stroke and touch his body through the cage. He visibly relaxed and started to have a much less rigid body position. I fed him some biscuits through the cage entrance, and felt secure in touching his face and even his mouth, which I did, as his body language was much improved. Once he got to know me, he no longer growled, and now just wiggles and exhibits relaxed and happy body language. When I enter his cage, he gets real close and licks me and displays affection and calm. he lies across me and is totally relaxed with me, as I am with him.

I am quite aware of the physical abilities of a pit. They have it all- Great athleticism, tenacity, tremendous jaw strength, well muscled bodies, strong bones, abilty to withstand pain, and loyalty to their owners- A perfect fighting dog. Yes, the were bred to fight, although that was generations of dogs ago.

The history of pits, rottys, and mastiffs are certainly not the same. They are all dogs of great strength and each has the ability to inflict great harm. I do readily admit that the last breed tht I would want to attack me would be a pit because of its abilities as mentioned above.

You must realize that how pits are bred and raised does have a temendous bearing on how the dog interacts with people and even other dogs. Pits are often bred indiscriminantly at best, often bred to maintain undesireable characteristics as opposed to trying to eliminate them. Some are poorly socialized with other dogs and humans early in their life when it is so important. They are sometimes used and bred to fight, treated in an inhumane manner, and not obedience trained. It is not a wonder that some of them turn out as bad as they do. But yes, a great deal of that is the lack of responsibility of the owner.

You do make a point that pits have attacked members of their own human families and people both old and young. Undoubtedly one is taking a risk with a breeds like pits because of their innate physical abilities. Other dogs bite and go after family members, especially kides, but they do not normally do the damage of a pit, nor do you see the press coverage that occurs with pits and like breeds.

I agree tha some pit bulls are very dangerous, but that does not mean that all pit bulls are very dangerous. Some pit bill "owners" are remarkably responsible, but many too many are not. The vast majority of pit bulls that cause havoc emanate from the pathetic irresponsible owners.

I would be hesitant to put two pits in the same home and would be more hesitant in adopting pits to homes with little kids. There is a risk. But I don't agree with your anaysis...almost as if they are all so dangerous and almost evil.

There was a woman temperament testing dogs at the shelter today. Most of these dogs were part of the 1,000 dogs seized from a puppy mill in Virginia and distributed to many shelters and rescue groups. Most were puppys and very small breeds. A few exhibited resource guarding of their food and one would even literally attack another dog in its cage so that it could get most all of the food availalbe. If those dogs were pits, you would say that they are are really dangerous. King will let me play with him and take a bone from him and does not seem to mind me moving his food bowl even when he is eating. He is quite comfortable allowing you to handle him anywhere.

I have encountered lots of dogs that bark and growl at one time or another. It does not mean that they should be put down. People yell and scream too. no need to shoot them all.

I respect and understand your position relative to pit bulls. I am not saying that your thinking is irrational or even incorrect. I do think that it is generalizing too much about a single breed (breeds actually) and that is not really fair to some of the wonderful pits that exist today.

I do want to know more about why he growls and barks at some people. If I adopted him, that would definitely be on my mind at all times. He would probably never be off leash with me except when in my own yard. I would always have him on a leash with a harness. Especially because people fear pits.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Sandy,

I feel your pain. It is hard to see any dog left without someone to love them, but I side with Viper on this one.

The name Pitt Bull is a generic name. Is this dog a Rotweiler (Rots fall under the Pitt Bull category)? The issue with Rots is that their breeding is sketchy. Some breeders have breed the dogs to have highly aggressive tendencies. So I would want to find out if it is a Rottweiler and if you can find out where it came from (which is doubtful). Rots were the number two breed of dog named in fatal human attacks from '79 to '98*.

* stat taken from CDC report. (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf)

I don't want to leave this breed out to dry because I have met very happy Pitt Bull/Rotweiler owners, but to not know the breeder of this dog is a HUGE red flag. You have no idea what instincts this dog has been breed to have or if it was abused.


1. Rottweilers are NOT pit bulls. They are never included in the breeds that are considered pits.

2. I don't think that the name pit is totally generic as you suggest.

3. Pit bulls are often considered to be any one of th following breeds-

a. American Staffordshire Terrier
b. American Pit Bull Terrier
c. Staffordshire Bull Terrier
d. Dogs that have a prdominantly pit look are often considered pits

4. You are correct that we do not know the breeding of the dog. I believe that an American Stafford Terrier rescue group was going to take King but decided not to as they did not think he is pure American Staffordshire Terrier.

5. Yes, Rottweilers have been very high in the list of dogs that have killed people.

6. I am lousy at identifying some little breeds and guessing the mix of little breeds. but much better with larger breeds. I am confident in saying that King has absolutely no Rottweiler in him.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Viper, I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input.
It also appears to be a media-driven frenzy against these dogs and anytime a dog bites a person the words "Pit Bull" miraculously seem to find their way into the newspaper account since they make for better headlines.

Very true.


Sandy

[Sandy]

How much do you know about his history other than he was neglected? In this day and age when I read your story I think "Dog fighting". However statistically it was most likely not the case.

Having as much info as possible about his background could be a great help with finding someone to adopt him.

No dog fighting. He was left outside tied up for most of the day. He would bark a lot and there were numerous complaints about him. Animal Control finally seized him. He was initially very submissive if someone admonsihed or yelled at him (shoudn't do that) at the shelter. He is much improved, but sometimes stil shows remnants of that behavior.


Sandy

[Sandy]

It is a sad commentary that there are more good dogs out there than there are good dog owners.

That sentence says a great deal. Unfortunately he reality is that there are simply too many dogs (and cats....whatever they are :) ) produced in the world. Simply not enough homes to absorb them all. That is why millions are put down each year.


Sandy

[A.L.Breguet]

Mrs. B and I volunteer at the local humane society. As one can imagine, in this area, there are many pits in the shelter at all times. IBOE that the vast majority are very sweet and are potentially great pets.
On the other hand, a few that we've met at the shelter are extremely aggressive.
I don't know what this means, but I firmly believe that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. Just because the owner is attacked, doesn't get them off the hook, as far as I'm concerned.

[Climb01742]

sandy, when you get down on yourself, please bookmark and reread this thread. i am biased as i, too, am a dog-lover but the good you do at the dog-shelter gives you a bazillion i-am-a-good-human-being points. ;)

perhaps gloria will change her mind. king and you seem like destinied pals. mrs climb has had a rescue dog for almost 9 years now. he and she enrich each other's lives immeasurably. maybe king and you can do it too. good luck.

[Dekonick]

Adopt King.

'nuf said.

[barry1021]

It is a sad commentary that there are more good dogs out there than there are good dog owners.

100000

b21

[Sandy]

I think that it goes well beyond that. There are simply more dogs (and cats and other animals) than there are dog (animal) owners, period (good or bad). Shelters, rescue groups, foster care individuals,..., do simply spectacular worked, but to me, it is doomed from the beginning since there is no control on what is produced. The animals that need homes cannot be absorbed by demand since there just too many born, plain and simple. A simple numbers game. I have never really researched what I say, but I don't see how it could be otherwise. Millions of animals are euthanized every year, year after year.

A perfect example of the above is a puppy mill in Hillsville Virginia. 1,000 dogs (that is correct-1,000) were taken from the puppy mill just a few weeks ago and distributed to various shelters and rescue groups. Our local shelter received 25 of them- all small breed dogs, non-socialized, and not perfectly healthy. They had spent their entire life in 3' by 2' cages. No love, no real care, nothing.....just being used for sale for $$$$$$$. It is not possible for a puppy mill to adequately care for 1000+ dogs (may have been allowed to keep some). If puppy mills are allowed to produce so many dogs, with so little regard for the animal welfare, then what kind of chance is there for solving the overproduction problem? Some breeders of pits genuinely care about the breed, but many do it just for the money and could care less what temperament the dog has or the health of the dog. $$$$$$$$$ is the name of the game.

Sandy

[rePhil]

I have. By a dog I "rescued" from a family that said they were moving, and couldn't take the dog. We have three boys, and I was told the dog was great with kids.
Things went well for about six months. then one day out of the blue he decided he and he alone was going to eat the family dinner, a meatloaf. He growled at my wife and bit me and took a nice chunk out of my upper arm.
I contacted animal control as I was afraid to ride in the same vehicle with him.Until that incident he was a wonderful pet, well trained and played fine with the kids.
It turns out this dog was known by them and I was told I was the third person he had bitten. He was approximately two years old at the time.
I was told by county law he had to be destroyed.

[JohnS]

my brother-in-law would undoubtedly be intimidated and frightened of him.

Sandy There's reason enough to adopt him.... :p

[Sandy]

Curiosity- What breed?


Sandy

Lots of family members get bit by their dogs. Often it is because they cannot read the communication of what the dog is trying to tell them. This is particularly true of kids, who often have no clue as to how to read or approach a dog. This is said with the realization that it most likely does not apply to your case, and certainly not to the horrific pit bull attacks mentioned by Viper. Rescue dogs sometimes carry baggage. You should have been told about the dog's propensity to bite. Someond failed you well before the very bad incident.

[Sandy]

There's reason enough to adopt him.... :p

My brother-in-law is an excellent example of people fearing dogs and dog's ability to read people. A truly wonderful yellow lab lived two doors down a few years back. She was extremely well behaved and she and I got along very well. The dog only barked if someone came to the house. She was remarkably calm and good natured, and especially obedient. One day she saw me and she ran over to me and I took her inside my house for a few minutes. My brother-in-law was sitting on a couch about 10 feet from the lab. She looked at him and started a low key growl, something that she had never done before in my presence and never did in the future. There was simply something about my brther-in-law that she did not like. The growl was remarkably inconsistent with her nature and how she reacted to almost anyone. But he had been bitten by a Doberman in Israel and is somewhat afraid of dogs-especially certain breeds. Dogs read humans and other dogs very well.

Sandy

[rePhil]

It was a replacement for one that passed away. With three little children I couldn't afford to go back to the breeder of the first one, which was a terrific dog.
As far as reading communication, no dog of mine was going to do what he was preparing to do, attack my wife. He was voice command trained, but nothing short of getting physical was going to stop him. I was going for his collar as I was afraid for my wife.
I agree that I should have been told.

On another note my son is a Police Officer. I really enjoy the departments K-9's, and hearing of their "adventures"

[Sandy]

It was a replacement for one that passed away. With three little children I couldn't afford to go back to the breeder of the first one, which was a terrific dog.
As far as reading communication, no dog of mine was going to do what he was preparing to do, attack my wife. He was voice command trained, but nothing short of getting physical was going to stop him. I was going for his collar as I was afraid for my wife.
I agree that I should have been told.

On another note my son is a Police Officer. I really enjoy the departments K-9's, and hearing of their "adventures"

Clealry your dog had some genuine issues and I did no mean to imply that anyone was not reading the dog correctly. It did something totally incongruent with its normal behavior with your family and no way should you or anyone in the family have anticipated it. In instances like that one should actually consider a physical problem possibilty relative to the dog in addition to some very serious and dangerous behavior issue.

Sorry that the situation happened. I had a German Shepherd 54 years ago- a truly remarkable dog in all ways. But the breed has change over the years, a great deal because of its immense popularity worldwide and the less than stellar breeding. The GSD of today doesn't even look, most often, like the GSD of my youth.


Shiloh Shepherd Sandy

[1centaur]

That was an interesting story about the Lab and your brother-in-law. Our Doberman has given that growl just once, to a repairman coming unexpectedly into the house. To the extent that dogs "read" people well, I often wonder what it is they are reading in situations like that. Yes, I think fear by the human is easy for them to read, especially by dogs who want to be the alpha, but sometimes it's something else, and one's imagination can run wild.

BTW, my wife had a German Shepherd that bit someone many years ago and she has been acutely sensitized to that potential ever since. She just assumes that all the people who see the Doberman in the car and want to give him a pet are asking to be bitten and she does not let them near. As for people who come to the house, she makes a big production of the meeting and often gives the visitor a Milk Bone to hand over in the first moments. As far as I can tell, our Doberman is one of the nicest dogs around but he sure gets a lot of Milk Bones :)

[Sandy]

That was an interesting story about the Lab and your brother-in-law. Our Doberman has given that growl just once, to a repairman coming unexpectedly into the house. To the extent that dogs "read" people well, I often wonder what it is they are reading in situations like that. Yes, I think fear by the human is easy for them to read, especially by dogs who want to be the alpha, but sometimes it's something else, and one's imagination can run wild.

BTW, my wife had a German Shepherd that bit someone many years ago and she has been acutely sensitized to that potential ever since. She just assumes that all the people who see the Doberman in the car and want to give him a pet are asking to be bitten and she does not let them near. As for people who come to the house, she makes a big production of the meeting and often gives the visitor a Milk Bone to hand over in the first moments. As far as I can tell, our Doberman is one of the nicest dogs around but he sure gets a lot of Milk Bones :)

King reads the Washington Post, Dog Fancy, and the Serotta Forum :)


Sandy

[Lifelover]

Is there anyway you could post a Pic of King?

Do you have any idea if he travels (via car) very well?

[Sandy]

Is there anyway you could post a Pic of King?

Do you have any idea if he travels (via car) very well?

Go to www.mchumane.org/rescue.shtml and click onto "MCHS Rescue Animals" by the picture or a dog, cat, and rabbit. Scroll down to two photos of King and a description.

I have no idea how well he travels by car.


Sandy

[jel]

King is a very handsome fellow, I do hope he finds a home.

[shanerpvt]

my wife & i have a "pit" mix. we had to learn the do's & don'ts of his personality. he was a abandoned puppy......so he has food issues. doesn't ever get "people" food unless he is outside and by himself. he isn't aggressive toward other animals unless they just won't leave him alone. great with people.........loves to snuggle.......he has crawled up in bed with housequests before. but, he will scare the sheet out of you if he doesn't know you. the hardest thing about having him is the fear/misunderstanding others have of the breed.

[Lifelover]

Go to www.mchumane.org/rescue.shtml and click onto "MCHS Rescue Animals" by the picture or a dog, cat, and rabbit. Scroll down to two photos of King and a description.

I have no idea how well he travels by car.


Sandy

He is a Cutie
http://www.mchumane.org/rescueanimals/King.JPG

[Viper]

He is a Cutie
http://www.mchumane.org/rescueanimals/King.JPG

So were these dogs (which *nobody* wants to comment on)-

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm


My nephews live next door to a house who own two pit bulls. My sister is a stay at home Mom, my brother-in-law was at work when two pit bulls lept the neighbors fence and ran into my sister's yard. She was terrified, could not leave, move, frozen in fear in her own yard, with her two children and two pit bulls. She called me and I suggested she call 911. I went over there minutes later, my 12 guage with # 8 shots and a 5" Spyderco blade in my trunk. I live in NY and nearly EVERY summer a 'nice', 'gentle' and 'kind' pitbull tears the face off an infant, child or their owner (again, see the above website for the disturbing facts on Pit Bulls).

The police arrived along with Dog Control and the dogs were removed. Later that night I met with the neighbors and spoke with the man of the house, "Your dogs caused a great fear today, it's your fault. Next time your dogs show any aggression towards my family, I'll defend them and I'll see you in court. Both you and your dogs are on the shortest of leashes."

I *do not* drink any Kool Aid when it comes to several breeds of dogs.

We all read 'To Kill a Mockingbird' and sometimes, even the nicest man in the world has to put a dog down.

[shanerpvt]

So were these dogs (which *nobody* wants to comment on)-

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm


My nephews live next door to a house who own two pit bulls. My sister is a stay at home Mom, my brother-in-law was at work when two pit bulls lept the neighbors fence and ran into my sister's yard. She was terrified, could not leave, move, frozen in fear in her own yard, with her two children and two pit bulls. She called me and I suggested she call 911. I went over there minutes later, my 12 guage with # 8 shots and a 5" Spyderco blade in my trunk. I live in NY and nearly EVERY summer a 'nice', 'gentle' and 'kind' pitbull tears the face off an infant, child or their owner (again, see the above website for the disturbing facts on Pit Bulls).

The police arrived along with Dog Control and the dogs were removed. Later that night I met with the neighbors and spoke with the man of the house, "Your dogs caused a great fear today, it's your fault. Next time your dogs show any aggression towards my family, I'll defend them and I'll see you in court. Both you and your dogs are on the shortest of leashes."

I *do not* drink any Kool Aid when it comes to several breeds of dogs.

We all read 'To Kill a Mockingbird' and sometimes, even the nicest man in the world has to put a dog down.

so.........did the dogs threaten your family of did they just come by to say hi?

[Viper]

so.........did the dogs threaten your family of did they just come by to say hi?

Did Rikki Tikki wait to hear, "Hello" from Nag and Nagaina?

Ask these dogs (and then put yourself in my sister's shoes).

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

[Sandy]

So were these dogs (which *nobody* wants to comment on)-

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm


My nephews live next door to a house who own two pit bulls. My sister is a stay at home Mom, my brother-in-law was at work when two pit bulls lept the neighbors fence and ran into my sister's yard. She was terrified, could not leave, move, frozen in fear in her own yard, with her two children and two pit bulls. She called me and I suggested she call 911. I went over there minutes later, my 12 guage with # 8 shots and a 5" Spyderco blade in my trunk. I live in NY and nearly EVERY summer a 'nice', 'gentle' and 'kind' pitbull tears the face off an infant, child or their owner (again, see the above website for the disturbing facts on Pit Bulls).

The police arrived along with Dog Control and the dogs were removed. Later that night I met with the neighbors and spoke with the man of the house, "Your dogs caused a great fear today, it's your fault. Next time your dogs show any aggression towards my family, I'll defend them and I'll see you in court. Both you and your dogs are on the shortest of leashes."

I *do not* drink any Kool Aid when it comes to several breeds of dogs.

We all read 'To Kill a Mockingbird' and sometimes, even the nicest man in the world has to put a dog down.

I have handled hundreds of pit bulls, at least, and have had no trouble with any of them. Although I do respect what a pit is capable of relative to inflicting severe damage on people or other dogs (cats...), I am undoubtedly too relaxed (or stupid) with them and other dogs too. If I were in a yard with kids and two pit bulls ran in, I think that my anxiety level would increase dramatically and I would probably become scared, perhaps very scared, especially if the dogs started to act aggressively. I completely understand why your sister was terrified. The potential harm was tremendous. The dogs were off leash, there were two of them, and the kids and your sister were very vulnerable. She would have very little ability to thwart an attack if it occurred. A very normal and reasonable response. We aren't talking about two chihuahuas. I would have suggested that she call the police also. Your position with the neighbor is most understandable and I might take a similar position, although it would be very difficult for me to kill a dog or any animal. I might report the incident to animal control.

The major difference in our thinking is that you seem to make a blanket statement about pits and perceive them all as being highly dangerous. That is simply not the case. Many are loving, gentle, affectionate, and calm dogs.You seem to be implying or literally saying that all pits are dangerous and that is not true.




Sandy

[JohnS]

I went over there minutes later, my 12 guage with # 8 shots and a 5" Spyderco blade in my trunk.
If they really were vicious, they would have laughed at #8 shot. They have very thick skulls and incredible respiratory/circulatory systems.

[Viper]

although it would be very difficult for me to kill a dog or any animal.

Sandy

And that's where we're different. I'd kill any animal or person who placed my life or my family's life in jeopardy.

I took my Samantha, she was 12 year old yellow lab at the time, to the beach. We were walking on the shore, she was on her leash. A grown pitbull male came running over, no leash. Samantha and I were shocked, she sat down and I offered the dog a nice verbal hello. He did not appear to be user-friendly. Samantha and I walked away from the dog, he followed us. He then growled at Samantha. Samantha and I stopped walking. The dog was hyper and I looked around for his Master. The dog had the odd look in his eye. He growled again and I told him to, "SIT!", he would not and he growled at me. I raised my hand in a command for him to sit and he growled and showed his teeth. Done.

Samantha and I walked to the water. I whispered to her, "Go get the birds!" as I took her off the leash. This pit bull couldn't swim and attack her as she swam in the Long Island Sound, looking for seagulls while I removed the open blade of my 5" spyderco from my pocket. I calmly walked back to parking lot where a white trash dude appeared looking for his pit bull. I let him know, "Your dog is five inches from death. Remove your dog from the beach, put him on a leash, get lost and good luck."

I don't have time to debate with fools who let their Land Shark aka Pit Bull roam around.

Words like "many" or "most" when it comes to pit bulls are words for marketing cause in real life, when placed in that situation with a pit bull, I have no issues in facing reality. Apparently, too few are educated and aware of the realities of pit bulls:

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

[Viper]

If they really were vicious, they would have laughed at #8 shot. They have very thick skulls and incredible respiratory/circulatory systems.

How true! And you advance and support my point(s).

Thanks. :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=police+shoot+pit+bull

[shanerpvt]

And that's where we're different. I'd kill any animal or person who placed my life or my family's life in jeopardy.

I took my Samantha, she was 12 year old yellow lab at the time, to the beach. We were walking on the shore, she was on her leash. A grown pitbull male came running over, no leash. Samantha and I were shocked, she sat down and I offered the dog a nice verbal hello. He did not appear to be user-friendly. Samantha and I walked away from the dog, he followed us. He then growled at Samantha. Samantha and I stopped walking. The dog was hyper and I looked around for his Master. The dog had the odd look in his eye. He growled again and I told him to, "SIT!", he would not and he growled at me. I raised my hand in a command for him to sit and he growled and showed his teeth. Done.

Samantha and I walked to the water. I whispered to her, "Go get the birds!" as I took her off the leash. This pit bull couldn't swim and attack her as she swam in the Long Island Sound, looking for seagulls while I removed the open blade of my 5" spyderco from my pocket. I calmly walked back to parking lot where a white trash dude appeared looking for his pit bull. I let him know, "Your dog is five inches from death. Remove your dog from the beach, put him on a leash, get lost and good luck."

I don't have time to debate with fools who let their Land Shark aka Pit Bull roam around.

Words like "many" or "most" when it comes to pit bulls are words for marketing cause in real life, when placed in that situation with a pit bull, I have no issues in facing reality. Apparently, too few are educated and aware of the realities of pit bulls:

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

I think people attach more people than dogs.....what is your approach on that.........would you pull your shotgun out on anyone in your yard you don't know?

I understand your issues with individual dogs, but that is exactly what they are individuals. I was bit in the leg a month or so ago by a 15lb fluffy thing. I don't like that dog, but i won't hold it against a dog of a simular breed.

there are probably two different camps on this.

sorry to hear your bad experiences with those breeds,
shaner

[BURCH]

1. Rottweilers are NOT pit bulls. They are never included in the breeds that are considered pits.

2. I don't think that the name pit is totally generic as you suggest.
Sandy


You are correct. I misread my source information last night. That is what I get for posting on the forum after my bedtime!!!

[Viper]

I think people attach more people than dogs.....what is your approach on that.........would you pull your shotgun out on anyone in your yard you don't know? :)


This is known as the LCDA or lowest common denominator approach.

Maybe more people die from the common cold, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? "More people attack people (than dogs attack people)."

I'm on record, "I'd kill any animal or person who placed my life or my family's life in jeopardy."

I'm off for some Bacon and Waffles, with fresh oj and coffee FTW.

Quint was right.

WWQD?

What Would Quint Do?

"You go inside the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water, shark's in the water ... our shark. Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies . . ."

[Lifelover]

And that's where we're different. I'd kill any animal or person who placed my life or my family's life in jeopardy.

I took my Samantha, .....[/url]

It's interesting that in neither one of your experiences did the vicious pit bull actually do anything?

Dogs most certainly can sense great fear in people and for some reason it does not bring out the best in them.

I suspect you would have a very different experience with any stray dog than someone like Sandy would.

Your over generalization of the breed shows your ignorance more than anything else.

[Dekonick]

my wife & i have a "pit" mix. we had to learn the do's & don'ts of his personality. he was a abandoned puppy......so he has food issues. doesn't ever get "people" food unless he is outside and by himself. he isn't aggressive toward other animals unless they just won't leave him alone. great with people.........loves to snuggle.......he has crawled up in bed with housequests before. but, he will scare the sheet out of you if he doesn't know you. the hardest thing about having him is the fear/misunderstanding others have of the breed.

Sounds just like my dog (minus the food issues)

[Viper]

Your over generalization of the breed shows your ignorance more than anything else.

As I learned in reading Archbishop Desmond Tutu's autobiography, he learned from his Dad this all-important mantra, “My father always used to say; don’t raise your voice, improve your argument”

So more than anything else LL, here is a photo of Tutu for you to you help raise your level of debate ATMO and re-re-re-read the link provided:

http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

Edit: And a large FYI, it's not "Fear and ignorance" that 'some' have of the breed, but rather experience, knowledge, facts and awareness. I have yet to meet a dog I am afraid of, but I've met many dogs I keep an eye on. Big diff. The above link exposes and offers others, those who might be wearing rose-colored glasses, to take them off and have that ah-hah moment.

In post # 4, Handsomerob effectively points out the issue of home insurance and pit bulls...are all insurance companies and their agents ignorant/stupid?

Are ALL folks from Ontario, Canada ignorant?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/03/01/pit-bull-ban050301.html



.

[Len J]

My brother-in-law is an excellent example of people fearing dogs and dog's ability to read people. A truly wonderful yellow lab lived two doors down a few years back. She was extremely well behaved and she and I got along very well. The dog only barked if someone came to the house. She was remarkably calm and good natured, and especially obedient. One day she saw me and she ran over to me and I took her inside my house for a few minutes. My brother-in-law was sitting on a couch about 10 feet from the lab. She looked at him and started a low key growl, something that she had never done before in my presence and never did in the future. There was simply something about my brther-in-law that she did not like. The growl was remarkably inconsistent with her nature and how she reacted to almost anyone. But he had been bitten by a Doberman in Israel and is somewhat afraid of dogs-especially certain breeds. Dogs read humans and other dogs very well.

Sandy

as you know I am a dog owner/dog lover. Please take this in that spirit.

When I look at a particular breed of dog, I do look at the breeding patterns of the breed & therefor the (middle of the Bell curve) tendencies that have been bread into that breed. Obviously, there are exceptions to every breed, but, by and large, the probabilities can be forecast. In the case of the Pits, as you say, they have been breed for centuries for aggressiveness as fighting dogs..........what's worse, is that that is continuing even today (See Michael Vick...he is not an exception unfortunately). Having grown up in the inner city, I can tell you that there is still very active breeding for fighting aggressiveness occurring currently.

So if I'm out and about, especially when I am with our Newfoundland, I am judging dogs that approach us, especially those off the leash, based on these middle of the bell curve tendencies. If a golden approaches us, I am much more relaxed than if a Pitt approaches......IMO, it's a "More likely than Not" expectation, A Pitt is More likely than not dangerous......it's a function of their breeding. I'm not going to presuppose a potentially lethal Pitt is anything other than that until I know the dog.

If I were you looking at this animal, I'd want to know a lot more about where he was bread and who bread him, I'd want to know if he was bread for aggressiveness or not, I'd want to know if he was abused.

He may be a great dog, but, just based on percentages, he is a higher risk dog than many others. Think about it this way...if you had small children in your house, would you bring him into the house as a family member? If there is any hesitation in answering this question yes, then why would you bring him into a neighborhood with other children?

Pitts, as a breed, are victims of humans lust for blood........it really is a shame, but I for one, can't ignore what they have been inbreed to do......and they do it well.

For me, it's a probability issue.

Good Luck.

Len

[Dekonick]

Pits were bred to 'tease' bulls - It was believed that it tenderized the meat. They had to have stong grips to grab a bull by the nose and hang on...

It wasn't until recent years they have been abused for fighting. They are tough dogs - no doubt...but can make fantastic pets. It is all about responsible pet ownership - and the dog's history. Give a dog exercise, attention, food, shelter, and leadership and chances are you will have a good pet. Coop 'em up, give them too many human characteristics (they are dogs after all) etc and the animal comes out. A tired dog (ie walked or exercised) is a happy dog. A well fed dog is a happy dog. A dog that is part of a pack (your family) is a happy dog. A dog with a pack leader (you) is a happy dog. Don't send mixed signals, be firm, feed and exercise...and love your dog. I'll take a pit any day - if it has the proper temperment. Were it a fighting dog NO WAY (but again - fighting dog's don't get adopted out)

If you are this afraid of dogs my advice is to not own one as you probably will not make a responsible owner.

Sandy - King looks like a nice doggie - in need of a proper home. Adopt him :)

[1centaur]

a potentially lethal Pitt

Mr. Smith? :)

Seriously though, I do think Len J is right about the importance of breeding and playing the odds.

As to the prior question on insurance companies, I actually think those issues are NOT about pure rationality. Biting statistics are EXTREMELY poorly controlled, reported, etc. St. Bernards and Poodles have high biting rates but are not on the lists of objectionable dogs for insurers. In a perfectly competitive market with good information on all sides the insurance equation would have meaning because there would be a downside to companies excluding breeds without statistical basis - they would lose business. But where information is poor and not well publicized, the insurance decisions are about knee jerk ways to limit payouts WITHOUT effective cost to the insurers, technicalities that can be used to deny coverage regardless of genuine risk. So it's not about stupidity, it's about profit maximization.

[Dekonick]

How to lie with statistics...

:beer:

[Blue Jays]

"...It wasn't until recent years they have been abused for fighting. They are tough dogs - no doubt...but can make fantastic pets. It is all about responsible pet ownership - and the dog's history. Give a dog exercise, attention, food, shelter, and leadership and chances are you will have a good pet. Coop 'em up, give them too many human characteristics (they are dogs after all) etc and the animal comes out. A tired dog (ie walked or exercised) is a happy dog. A well-fed dog is a happy dog. A dog that is part of a pack (your family) is a happy dog. A dog with a pack leader (you) is a happy dog. Don't send mixed signals, be firm, feed and exercise...and love your dog. I'll take a Pit any day - if it has the proper temperment. Were it a fighting dog NO WAY..."Dekonick, excellent post.
Once dogs clearly realize where they reside within the family structure, it's a better situation. Having any fear or timidity is a recipe for disaster, especially with a physically powerful dog.

[Len J]

Pits were bred to 'tease' bulls - It was believed that it tenderized the meat. They had to have stong grips to grab a bull by the nose and hang on...

It wasn't until recent years they have been abused for fighting. They are tough dogs - no doubt...but can make fantastic pets. It is all about responsible pet ownership - and the dog's history. Give a dog exercise, attention, food, shelter, and leadership and chances are you will have a good pet. Coop 'em up, give them too many human characteristics (they are dogs after all) etc and the animal comes out. A tired dog (ie walked or exercised) is a happy dog. A well fed dog is a happy dog. A dog that is part of a pack (your family) is a happy dog. A dog with a pack leader (you) is a happy dog. Don't send mixed signals, be firm, feed and exercise...and love your dog. I'll take a pit any day - if it has the proper temperment. Were it a fighting dog NO WAY (but again - fighting dog's don't get adopted out)

If you are this afraid of dogs my advice is to not own one as you probably will not make a responsible owner.

Sandy - King looks like a nice doggie - in need of a proper home. Adopt him :)

I don't think it's an either or situation. I don;t think the choices are between "it's all the dogs breeding" or "it's all about the owner". Rather I think it's both.......take the same experienced, dedicated knowledgable owner.....give him a golden or give him a Pitt......which one has a higher probability of having a problem with his dog being agressive and possibly attacking someone? I think the answer is obvious. Can they make good pets...clearly......do you have to be more careful than with other breeds....absolutly.

Len

[Viper]

Having any fear or timidity is a recipe for disaster, especially with a physically powerful dog.

It misses the boat.

Did anyone look at the list of victims, infants, children, elderly...how is it that those who could not kill a pit bull with their bare hands can espouse the cure: you must not be timid, it's your fault you were killed!

I'd bet that all who posted or hinted that we, "Must remain fearless" would be the 1st ones running from the dog. :rolleyes:

Why won't anyone look and read the LONG list of people randomly killed by pit bulls. And you think the cure is what? What? Show no fear!

How many OWNERS of pit bulls were the victims???


http://pit-bull-awareness-center.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

Second Lynn Pit Bull Assault In One Week Oct 26, 2007
Lynn Teacher Mauled by Pit Bull Oct 26, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Child in Seagoville Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bull Mauls 8-Pound Pekingese Oct 24, 2007
Elderly Woman Injured in Pit Bull Attack Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bull Twice Attacks Children In Day Care Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bulls Kill Cancer Child's Miniature Horse Oct 24 2007
Pit Bull Shot After Charging Homeowner Oct 23 2007
Man and 1 Year Old Son, Attacked By Their Family Pit Bull Oct 22, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack, Fatally Injure Greyhound Oct 22, 2007
17 Month Old boy Injured in Pit Bull Attack Oct 22, 2007
Pit bulls Attack Man Walking His dogs in Seattle Oct 22, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Horse In Santa Fe Oct 19, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 77-Year-Old On Street Oct 18, 2007
Four Recovering After Pit Bull Attack Oct 16, 2007
3 Pit Bulls Attack 2 Dogs, Chihuahua Dies Oct 16, 2007
Potter Man Injured By Pit While working in His Backyard Oct 15, 2007
Woman Attacked By 4 Pit Bulls Oct 15, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Hernando Women Oct 13, 2007
1-Year-Old Pug Dies when Mauled by Two Errant Pitbulls Oct 10, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Parole Agent in Newark Oct 10, 2007
Township Candidate Bitten by Pit Bull Oct 9, 2007
2 Pit Bulls Attack 14 Year Old Girl Oct 9, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack School Bus Full of Disabled Kids Oct 9, 2007
White Mountain's Pit Bulls Attack Rangers Oct 9, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack 10-year-old Baltimore Boy Oct 8, 2007
Five Pit Bulls Attack Hikers Oct 7, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Second Child Oct 5, 2007
Woman Fatally Mauled by Pit Bulls She Raised Oct 4, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Teens and 1 Child Walking Down Street Oct 4, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Animal Control Officer Oct 4, 2007
Woman Attacked By Stray Pit Bulls Oct 4, 2007
14-Year-Old Lab Terrified After Pitbull Attack Oct 4, 2007
7-Year-Old Recovering After Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Girls Oct 3, 2007
Two-Year-Old Girl Recounts Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Four-Year-Old Recovers after Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Stunned Sons Call 911 After Pet Pit Bulls Kill Mom Oct 2, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Boy 7 on Face and Head, Oct 2, 2007
Brutal Pit Bull Attack Under Investigation Oct 1, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Waterbury Boy Oct 1, 2007
Pit Bulls Attacks Teen - Dogs Still On The Loose September 28, 2007
Family's Pit Bull Attacks Small Child September 28, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks New Brighton Man September 28, 2007
Three Pit Bull Attacks Come in One Morning Sept. 26, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Bicycling Teen in Face Sept. 24, 2007
3 Pitbulls Attack 6-Year-Old Boy Sept. 24, 2007
Trash Can Is Baby's Life Saver From Pit Bull Attack September 21, 2007
Pit bulls attack woman and animal control officers September 21, 2007
Pit Bull Delivering Puppies Attacks Neighbor September 21, 2007
Pit bull attacks Chihuahua September 19, 2007
Pit Bulls Break Into House, Kill Family Cat September 19, 2007
Pit bull dogs attack, kill neighbor's Springer spaniel September 19, 2007
2 Pit Bulls Attack Pregnant Owner September 19, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Leg of Sherrif's Deputy September 18, 2007
Pit Bull Enters Home Attacks Teen, Kills Shih Tzu September 18, 2007
2 Injured In Dog Attack Near Buckner September 17, 2007
Loose Pit Bull Attacks Tahoe Police Dog Sept. 17, 2007
Pit Bull Attack In Juniper Valley Park Sept. 16, 2007
Pit Bull Pack Kills Man, Woman In Michigan September 14, 2007
Pitbull Mauls 2, 3rd Fatality This Month September 14, 2007
Pit Bull Attack Claims Life of Family's Beloved Dog Sep 13, 2007
Pit-Bull Attacks Orange County Mail Carrier Sep 13, 2007
Pit-Bull Attack on Pigs September 08, 2007
Six-year-old Attacked by Babysitter's Pit Bull September 08, 2007
Maltese Dead After Pit Bull Attack September 7, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Six-Year-Old Without Provocation Sept. 7, 2007
Man Attacked By Pit Bulls While Biking In Cabarrus County Sept. 6, 2007
Pit bull attacks letter carrier in Westminster September 5, 2007
Man Attack by Three Pit Bulls Sept. 4, 2007
6-Year-Old Mauled and Killed by Pit Bull September 2, 2007
Pit Bulls Rip Boy From Bike Near Oklahoma School August 30, 2007
Pit Bull Owner Cited After Attack August 29, 2007
Cop's Pit Bull Attacks 82-Year-Old Woman August 26, 2007
Woman Breaks Her Leg Running From Pit Bulls Aug. 24, 2007
Pit Bull Mix Attacks Boy in Columbia Heights Aug. 23, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 15 year old Aug. 2007
Pit Bulls Burst Into Home, Attack Disabled Woman sleeping
In Bed August 22, 2007
Pit Bulls Injure Woman, Attack Officers August 22, 2007
Fatal Pit Bull Attack Prompts Review of Dangerous Dogs Aug. 18, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Retired Couple and their Dog Aug. 10, 2007
Pack of Pit Bulls attack TV, Radio Employees Aug. 10, 2007
Pit bull kills dachshund, injures two people Aug. 9, 2007
Man Mauled Beyond Recognition in Pit Bull Attack August 08, 2007
Pit Bulls Brutally Attack Shih Tzu In Anaheim Aug 7, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Two in Slocum Aug 7, 2007
Handyman survives pit bull attack Aug. 6, 2007
HUNTINGTON Man Injured After Pit Bull Attack Aug. 4, 2007
Man mauled to death at Ving Rhames' home Aug. 4, 2007. See Video
Pit bull attacks 6-year-old boy, mother August 2, 2007
Security Guard Shoots Pit Bull During Attack July 31, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Man Inside Pet Store July 31, 2007
Pit bull attack upsets cat owner July 31, 2007
Irvine woman recalls pit bull attack July 30, 2007
Amarillo woman recovering after pit bull attack July 30, 2007
Pit Bulls Terrorize Oklahoma Neighborhood July 28, 2007
Teen Survives Pit Bull Attack; Needs 900 Stitches July 28, 2007
Pit bull shot, killed after attack on mayor and child July 28, 2007
Neighbors Save Elderly Man From Vicious Dog Attack July 28, 2007
Another Bay area pit bull attack July 27, 2007
Pit bulls attack two San Francisco cops July 27, 2007
5-year-old Highland City Boy Severely Mauled by Pit July 25, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks UPS Driver July 24, 2007
Five Pit Bulls Seized in Attack in Alameda County Park July 22, 2007
Pit bull bites 5-year-old boy in Polk County July 24, 2007
A spate of pit bull attacks in Reading - July 22, 2007
Horrified family sees pit bull maul pet cat - July 21, 2007
Pit Bull Attack at Festival July 20, 2007
Horse Dies After Pit Bull Attack - July 19, 2007
Pit bulls attack 4 people in Pasadena, owner arrested July 19, 2007
Teen's Pit Bull Attacks Two Girls In SF - July 19, 2007
Pit bull attacks 69-year-old woman: Pet dog killed - July 18, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Elderly Woman July 18, 2007
Woman's Face, Ear Injured In Pit Bull Attack - July 16, 2007
Pit bull attack injures Milpitas carrier July 14, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 72 year old woman - July 14, 2007
Pit bull attacks elderly woman in Aloha - July 14, 2007
Two women injured in pit bull attack - July 12, 2007
West Virginia boy attacked by pit bull July 12, 2007
Six-Year-Old Boy Killed by Pit Bull Pup July 9, 2007
Pitbull Attacks Smaller Dog + city worker - July 6, 2007
Gwinnett Toddler Attacked by Pit Bull July 6, 2007
Infant Recovering After Pit-Bull Attack - July 4, 2007
Woman Dies, Sister in Hospital After Family Pit Bull Attacked June 29, 2007
MAULED BY 3 DOGS AT AGE 10, A 'Walking Miracle' June 18, 2007
Pitbull Bites Man While Walking To Work June 15, 2007
Indy Mayor 'Sick To Death' Of Attacks On People May 30, 2007
Indy Police: Girl Injured By Pit Bull May 24, 2007
Pit Bulls Maul Two Children May 10, 2007

[JohnS]

How true! And you advance and support my point(s).

Thanks. :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=police+shoot+pit+bullYes, and no.
Like you, I wouldn't hesitate to "stop" any person or animal threatening the lives of my family and the ones I love. Unlike you in NY, I live in MI and have the means constantly to do that. :p
Where I disagree is on your blanket hatred of pits. I dislike many of them, but I really dislike their owners. However, I don't hate all of them.
Looking at the pics of King, he appears to be a mix. His head and skull are nowhere near as wide as most pits. He looks like a fine boy to me!

[Blue Jays]

Viper, you appear to have much dislike for Pit Bulls across-the-board. I'm not quite sure what else to discuss with you given that standpoint. The two cute Pit Bulls who I've known (the 50-pounder and 60-pounder mentioned earlier) were lovable, playful, tail-wagging snugglebunnies. They never attacked anyone or anything, except for squeaky toys tossed for them, tennis balls rolled across the yard, and dog biscuits!

[shanerpvt]

after my brother-in-law was bucked off a horse, it turned around and stomped him several times. several weeks in the hospital and a couple of removed organs and he is ok thankfully...............what's next ..........death to the horses?

that individual horse is mean spirited..........not all horses...........same can be said of all animails (including humans).

[Viper]

Viper, you appear to have much dislike for Pit Bulls across-the-board. I'm not quite sure what else to discuss with you given that standpoint. The two cute Pit Bulls who I've known (the 50-pounder and 60-pounder mentioned earlier) were lovable, playful, tail-wagging snugglebunnies. They never attacked anyone or anything, except for squeaky toys tossed for them, tennis balls rolled across the yard, and dog biscuits!

1). Getting a pit bull may impact your homeowner's insurance, why?
2). Pit bulls are banned in Denver, Colorado, why?
3). Pit bulls are banned in Ontario, Canada, why?
4). On May 30, 2007, Indianapolis' Mayor Bart Peterson offered, "More kids and more people in our community (are) getting torn up by pit bulls, and I'm just sick to death of it" and he's seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
5). New York City legislators are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
6). Representatives from Massachusetts are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
7). Certain towns/cities in Ohio have just banned pit bulls, why?
8). San Francisco is looking into banning the pit bull, why?
9). The City of Monterey is looking to ban the pit bull, why?
10). And...the American Pit Bull is a direct descendent of the English Bulldog and it just so happens they are banned in England, their 'home', why?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/07/06/denver_pit_bull_ban_draws_dog_lovers_ire/

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13248866/detail.html

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/dola-pubsfty/dola-pubsfty.asp


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13415948/detail.html

http://www.nsalamerica.org/news_and_events/stop-the-pit-bull-ban-in-nyc.html

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/199597800

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1193387865264590.xml&coll=2

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/06/BAGKUD46S61.DTL

http://www.city-data.com/forum/tennessee/131930-city-monterey-explores-pit-bull-ban.html


"Though dog advocates would dispute it, our fear was justified. According to the Centers for Disease Control, dogs bite 4 million to 5 million Americans every year. Few attacks are fatal (25 in 1996), but serious injuries—everything from a gash in the arm requiring a few stitches to severed hands and fractured skulls—continue to rise and now stand at more than 750,000 annually, up nearly 40 percent from 1986. Dog bites are one of the top causes of non-fatal injuries in the nation.

Children are the most frequent victims, accounting for 60 percent of the dog bites and 20 of the 25 dog-bite fatalities in 1996. Dog attacks are now the No. 1 reason that children wind up in hospital emergency rooms. Incredibly, nearly half of all American kids have been bitten by the age of 12. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that more than $100 million gets spent yearly treating dog bites in the nation's emergency rooms, and U.S. insurance companies paid out $250 million in dog-bite liability claims in 1996.

Pit bulls and pit-bull crosses (not always easy to distinguish) have caused more than a third of the nation's dog-bite fatalities since 1979 and a comparable proportion of serious injuries. The rising number of attacks, and the unease pit bulls and other dangerous dogs cause in public spaces, have spurred many municipalities to crack down with legislation ranging from muzzle laws to bans on pit bulls and certain other breeds."

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

[Ginger]

Sandy,

I haven't read this whole thread...and I had written a long response about alpha, adopting dogs, pit bulls in general, fighting dogs in particular...and managed to delete it....but it comes down to it...Sandy...remember that moment of indecision you had with that dobie a bit ago? Would you wish that on any member of your family for any reason? I've met Gloria and she is lovely, but I suspect that Gloria would not rank higher than the pit in the pit's perception of the family. Gloria would have to deal with those indecisive moments. Don't do that to her.

I was raised with dogs and I have the opinion that no vicious dog should be kept. I don't care if it's a tea cup poodle or a rottie. It only takes one stupid moment with a dog of any breed to scar a person physically and emotionally. I don't care if it "isn't the dog's fault" that they're that way. (I'm not talking about accidents, I'm talking about nasty dispositions for any reason.)
There are plenty of GOOD DOGS in this world who need homes. Good dogs who would be successful in their adoption and not cause injury or economic hardship to their families because of their disposition.

Perhaps you should adopt a dog. But don't pick one the world has turned its back on. From your story, this pit is such a dog. What you wrote in your initial post outlines these things well.

Pick a dog that will be successful in your family unit, successful in your community. Not one that will bring you heartbreak and perhaps worse. (And I did take a peek at his advert...he looks to be a sweet boy...it is difficult sometimes...)

Good luck Sandy!

[ti_boi]

Rule #1 in my House.....I am the Big Dog.
















So the breeds that I choose max out at 25 lbs....

[Viper]

Rule #1 in my House.....I am the Big Dog.
















So the breeds that I choose max out at 25 lbs....

Nice. :)

My ex-girlfriend had a yellow lab, Bailey. Great looking dog, but she gave him ZERO guidance, lessons or manners etc, he was OC. I met him and he was wild, nuts and he would nibble/bite a little bit too strongly. He caught one of my fingers and it was deep enough for some blood. I gave my girlfriend some money for dinner/take out and let her know I needed to stay behind for e-mails etc. She left and I took Bailey for a 'walk'. We went outside and he received a lesson in King of the Mountain. He never bleed and no punches were ever thrown, but he got his arse whipped.

I taught him in 15 minutes what he didn't learn in two years. From that day forward he was a stormtrooper and I was Obi Wan sitting in a Landspeeder FTW.

[Blue Jays]

Viper, it would probably be best if you don't own a Pit Bull at this time.
When you encounter nice dogs in the future (of any breed) take it at face value for those nice dogs. If you encounter unpleasant dogs (of any breed) take it at face value for those individual nasty dogs.
Best wishes for many, many successful & positive canine interactions.

[Blue Jays]

"...He never bleed and no punches were ever thrown, but he got his arse whipped..."Bailey had no idea why he was being punished since they have no memory for things like that. The same thing could have been accomplished with your girlfriend by using an aluminum soda can filled with dimes and pennies.
If the dog misbehaved or got too aggressive with his play-biting, just shout "No!" and shake the can. No beatdowns needed.

[1centaur]

Politicians are happy to overreact to pit bulls if it will get them voter attention. The mere movement to ban pit bulls in various towns speaks to nothing other than human nature. From what I have seen locally, when pit bull fans armed with statistics start pounding facts at politicians, they back off. They are weather vanes, not thought leaders.

That said, this really comes down to statistics and attitude towards risk. It's fairly obvious to the casual observer that pit bulls are responsible for a disproportionate number of particularly vicious biting/injury incidents. It's also fairly obvious that dogs reflect their breeding as well as their background since birth (nature and nurture), and that many attackers are not seething monsters all the time, making them harder to spot than anybody would like. Thus a rational conclusion is that pit bulls in this country are burdened by widespread "bad" breeding that increases the odds of having one that behaves dangerously at some point in its life, perhaps very unpredictably and after a long time of behaving well.

Now a side trip to look at statistics: look at the difference between "bad cars" and "good cars" when judged based on repair frequency (Consumer Reports data, for example). Bad cars might have 15-20% reported problems and the best might have 3-5% reported problems. In other words, the vast majority of bad cars will be completely fine. This is actually representative across consumer appliances of many sorts, BTW. And yet careful consumers will avoid those "bad cars" like the plague because they don't want the hassle and expense if they actually get the relatively rare bad one.

Back to pit bulls, the issue of owning one is like the bad car example except the downside is much worse. Without knowing the parents you can't calculate the odds. In this particular case, you do know the nurture part, and it's not good. A risk lesson I keep learning is that if you can't take the downside, don't take the risk. This seems like such a case. None of this means the odds would not be with you.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . For me, it's a probability issue. . . .

I don't mess with probabilities if the penalty for guessing wrong is getting me or my loved ones attacked and seriously injured.

Certain breeds have a much higher probability of being vicious, either expectedly OR unexpectedly. Unfortunately pits are at the top of the "dangerous" list. So are Rotties and Shepherds. I don't particularly care how they got there. It's irrelevant to me. It is what it is. They HAVE been bred through history to do what they do and there's nothing I can do to change that except stay out of their way.

The following statistics are from . . .

http://www.central-insurance.com/docs/ho-dog.htm#k2

The following breeds of dogs were involved in the most dog bite fatalities in the U.S. from 1979 to 1998:

Dog breed and number of deaths.

1. Pit Bull -- 76
2. Rottweiler -- 44
3. German Shephard -- 27
4. Husky -- 21
5. Malamute -- 15
6. Wolf-Dog Hybrid -- 14
7. Mixed Breed -- 12
8. Chow-Chow -- 11
9. Doberman-Pinscher -- 9
10. Great Dane -- 8
11. St. Bernard -- 8

(Dr. Jeffrey Sacks - Center for Disease Control and Prevention)

I stay away from these breeds. If I see them in public I avoid them. I don't let them near me or my daughter if I can avoid it. The penalty for guessing wrong is just too great. Apologies to Sandy. There ARE many good dogs. I just don't mess with these.

BBD

[J.Greene]

I respect Sandy a lot. He kindeness towards animals is admirable and there should be more like him. But I'm with Viper. I consider living next to a pit bull the same as living next to a child predator/sex offender. The potential is too great. My boys are 8,5,4. People have lapses in judgemnt. Gates get left open all the time by accident. It's not worth it.

I spent my summers growing up in rural NC. There were a group of dogs that by day were nice pets. When alowed to roam free at night (as all dogs did)they would "pack" and kill goats, calves, chickens and other dogs. The lead dog was part pit. Pack behavior of dogs can be very suprising. Dogs that are known to be good pets can become killers. A pit is too much of a risk if unsuspected behavior pops up. When I was 16, late one night I killed my second cousin's chow with my shotgun who would have killed our beagle Bill if I would not have stepped in. They would have attacked a child too. That I'm certain of.

JG

[thejen12]

My problem with pit bulls is the damage they are capable of doing. They have such strong jaws and killing instincts that a bite or attack from a pit bull can do much more damage than that of another type of dog.

To me, it's like having a loaded gun lying around. I don't expect anyone to pull the trigger on purpose, but if the gun went off somehow, for some unexpected reason, the damage could be fatal. Same thing with a pit bull, in my opinion. It's not a risk I'm willing to take, especially with a dog whose background I don't know.

I don't think we'll ever run out of dogs in the shelters. There are plenty of other adoptable dogs out there, if you want to rescue a dog. We'll always get our dogs from shelters or rescue organizations, but they won't be pit bulls (even though they look so sweet and break my heart when I see them).

Jenn

[JohnS]

1). 2). Pit bulls are banned in Denver, Colorado, why?
3). Pit bulls are banned in Ontario, Canada, why?
4). On May 30, 2007, Indianapolis' Mayor Bart Peterson offered, "More kids and more people in our community (are) getting torn up by pit bulls, and I'm just sick to death of it" and he's seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
5). New York City legislators are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
6). Representatives from Massachusetts are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
7). Certain towns/cities in Ohio have just banned pit bulls, why?
8). San Francisco is looking into banning the pit bull, why?
9). The City of Monterey is looking to ban the pit bull, why?
10). And...the American Pit Bull is a direct descendent of the English Bulldog and it just so happens they are banned in England, their 'home', why?

rl]Most of those cities/states/provinces/nations have also made it very difficult or impossible to own firearms, also. Maybe they just have an irrational fear of things that they don't understand...

[Sandy]

as you know I am a dog owner/dog lover. Please take this in that spirit.

When I look at a particular breed of dog, I do look at the breeding patterns of the breed & therefor the (middle of the Bell curve) tendencies that have been bread into that breed. Obviously, there are exceptions to every breed, but, by and large, the probabilities can be forecast. In the case of the Pits, as you say, they have been breed for centuries for aggressiveness as fighting dogs..........what's worse, is that that is continuing even today (See Michael Vick...he is not an exception unfortunately). Having grown up in the inner city, I can tell you that there is still very active breeding for fighting aggressiveness occurring currently.

So if I'm out and about, especially when I am with our Newfoundland, I am judging dogs that approach us, especially those off the leash, based on these middle of the bell curve tendencies. If a golden approaches us, I am much more relaxed than if a Pitt approaches......IMO, it's a "More likely than Not" expectation, A Pitt is More likely than not dangerous......it's a function of their breeding. I'm not going to presuppose a potentially lethal Pitt is anything other than that until I know the dog.

If I were you looking at this animal, I'd want to know a lot more about where he was bread and who bread him, I'd want to know if he was bread for aggressiveness or not, I'd want to know if he was abused.

He may be a great dog, but, just based on percentages, he is a higher risk dog than many others. Think about it this way...if you had small children in your house, would you bring him into the house as a family member? If there is any hesitation in answering this question yes, then why would you bring him into a neighborhood with other children?

Pitts, as a breed, are victims of humans lust for blood........it really is a shame, but I for one, can't ignore what they have been inbreed to do......and they do it well.

For me, it's a probability issue.

Good Luck.

Len

I know that you are a dog lover, and I know that you are knowledgeable about dogs- probably know a whole lot more than I do. My limited knowledge is really based on observations of dogs, from interacting with them at a local shelter. That environment is not where dogs normally live, so what I see may be flawed by that fact and my own abilitiy in assessing what is actually true about dogs.

Undoubtedly, I would be much more concerned about an unknown pit approaching a dog I was walking in my neighborhood, than I would be if some retriever appraoched. I think that I would place myself between the dog I was walking and the pit and evaluate the dog and the potential for a dog attack. I would be much more concerned if it was a pit, because of what has been brought up by you, Viper, and others. The potential for grat harm to the dog and/or me is greater with a pit than with a retriever.

Would I have hesitation bringing a pit into a house with small children?- Yes. Would I consider adopting one with kids in the neighborhood? Yes. There is a big difference, however. The pit would not live with the neighborhood kids. I would walk my dog 100% of the time if it was a pit, and would probably use a harness. I would obedience train the dog and build a very secure fence. He would never be outside in the neighborhood unless I was with him or her. He probably wouldn't even be in my back yard very much without my direct supervision. I would be a very responsible owner. I would talk to my neighbors before even adopting a pit to see how they would feel about it.

You are absolurely correct in saying that pit dog fighting (and breeding and raising dogs for such), is still very prevalent in our country.

I do know something about King's background, but have no clue as to his breeding.

It will probably never happen anyway since my wife does not want any dog, could probably not be able to handle him unless he was obedience trained (which he would be) and I don't see how my brother-in-law and he could ever mesh in an acceptable way.


Sandy

[rePhil]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21842563/

[Viper]

Bailey had no idea why he was being punished since they have no memory for things like that. The same thing could have been accomplished with your girlfriend by using an aluminum soda can filled with dimes and pennies.
If the dog misbehaved or got too aggressive with his play-biting, just shout "No!" and shake the can. No beatdowns needed.

Bailey didn't need to know why he was taken for a walk. He was on a need-to-know basis and he learned all he needed to know. From that day forward, all he needed was my look, a snap of my finger and a command; he went from C3-PO to R2-D2 in one day.

Been around dogs for 37 years, raised two Sachs'-Lug-Level hunting Labs, my folks breed Labs for 15 years and I've read 'Call of the Wild' about fifty times. :) Bailey got schooled in the art of:

Man > mountain of organic matter

And no, I'll never own a pit bull. Yellow and Black Labradors FTW.

[Len J]

I know that you are a dog lover, and I know that you are knowledgeable about dogs- probably know a whole lot more than I do. My limited knowledge is really based on observations of dogs, from interacting with them at a local shelter. That environment is not where dogs normally live, so what I see may be flawed by that fact and my own abilitiy in assessing what is actually true about dogs.

Undoubtedly, I would be much more concerned about an unknown pit approaching a dog I was walking in my neighborhood, than I would be if some retriever appraoched. I think that I would place myself between the dog I was walking and the pit and evaluate the dog and the potential for a dog attack. I would be much more concerned if it was a pit, because of what has been brought up by you, Viper, and others. The potential for grat harm to the dog and/or me is greater with a pit than with a retriever.

Would I have hesitation bringing a pit into a house with small children?- Yes. Would I consider adopting one with kids in the neighborhood? Yes. There is a big difference, however. The pit would not live with the neighborhood kids. I would walk my dog 100% of the time if it was a pit, and would probably use a harness. I would obedience train the dog and build a very secure fence. He would never be outside in the neighborhood unless I was with him or her. He probably wouldn't even be in my back yard very much without my direct supervision. I would be a very responsible owner. I would talk to my neighbors before even adopting a pit to see how they would feel about it.

You are absolurely correct in saying that pit dog fighting (and breeding and raising dogs for such), is still very prevalent in our country.

I do know something about King's background, but have no clue as to his breeding.

It will probably never happen anyway since my wife does not want any dog, could probably not be able to handle him unless he was obedience trained (which he would be) and I don't see how my brother-in-law and he could ever mesh in an acceptable way.


Sandy

Sounds very rational to me Sandy. It is about risk management and choice.

I admire your empathy.
I certainly trust you to make the right decision for you & yours.

Len

[Dekonick]

Children are the most frequent victims, accounting for 60 percent of the dog bites and 20 of the 25 dog-bite fatalities in 1996. Dog attacks are now the No. 1 reason that children wind up in hospital emergency rooms. Incredibly, nearly half of all American kids have been bitten by the age of 12. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that more than $100 million gets spent yearly treating dog bites in the nation's emergency rooms, and U.S. insurance companies paid out $250 million in dog-bite liability claims in 1996.


Ummm - I hate to disagree but dog bites are NOT the number one reason for child visits to the ER. I have been a paramedic for close to 20 years and have only had ONE dog bite in that entire time and that was not a pit. (minus the K-9 police chew toys)

The dog bite liability claims are why pits are listed - 'cuz jury awards are based on irrational fear. The same can be said for those pesky bike riders on roads they shouldnt be on - lets ban them too!

Irrational fear and misunderstanding leads to discrimination - be it human, animal or otherwise. The practice of dog fighting is a problem - and I hope Michael V. and his dog fighting kin get their due - but it is the dogs raised in this fashion that are a danger - not the breed.

As far as insurance co's - any way to limit liability. I seem to remember a fortune 500 company that is now bankrupt because of cleaver manipulation of statistics andlawsuits - remember DOW corning? Silicone implants? (there is NO statistical evidence those implants caused any more problems than placebo... didnt matter to an uneducated jury did it?) statistics rule #1 and the most often ignored - correlation does not equal causation. Look for another factor here - bad homes, bad owners - not a bad dog breed.

FWIW according to Storm Data, a national weather service publication, there are 62 reported lightning deaths a year. According to your stats there were 25 dog bite deaths for 2006.

Better watch out - soon those insurance companies wont allow steel bikes for fear of paying out life insurance to 'lightning rods'

Sheesh! Pits aren't a bad breed - how they are trained/used makes all the difference. Are there bad individual dogs? Yup. If there ever is a concern go to a trainer and have an evaluation. As an aside, ask a trainer and Ill bet you get the following answer - "I don't train dogs, I train owners"

[Sandy]

1). Getting a pit bull may impact your homeowner's insurance, why?
2). Pit bulls are banned in Denver, Colorado, why?
3). Pit bulls are banned in Ontario, Canada, why?
4). On May 30, 2007, Indianapolis' Mayor Bart Peterson offered, "More kids and more people in our community (are) getting torn up by pit bulls, and I'm just sick to death of it" and he's seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
5). New York City legislators are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
6). Representatives from Massachusetts are seeking a ban on pit bulls, why?
7). Certain towns/cities in Ohio have just banned pit bulls, why?
8). San Francisco is looking into banning the pit bull, why?
9). The City of Monterey is looking to ban the pit bull, why?
10). And...the American Pit Bull is a direct descendent of the English Bulldog and it just so happens they are banned in England, their 'home', why?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/07/06/denver_pit_bull_ban_draws_dog_lovers_ire/

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13248866/detail.html

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/dola-pubsfty/dola-pubsfty.asp


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13415948/detail.html

http://www.nsalamerica.org/news_and_events/stop-the-pit-bull-ban-in-nyc.html

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/199597800

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1193387865264590.xml&coll=2

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/06/BAGKUD46S61.DTL

http://www.city-data.com/forum/tennessee/131930-city-monterey-explores-pit-bull-ban.html


"Though dog advocates would dispute it, our fear was justified. According to the Centers for Disease Control, dogs bite 4 million to 5 million Americans every year. Few attacks are fatal (25 in 1996), but serious injuries—everything from a gash in the arm requiring a few stitches to severed hands and fractured skulls—continue to rise and now stand at more than 750,000 annually, up nearly 40 percent from 1986. Dog bites are one of the top causes of non-fatal injuries in the nation.

Children are the most frequent victims, accounting for 60 percent of the dog bites and 20 of the 25 dog-bite fatalities in 1996. Dog attacks are now the No. 1 reason that children wind up in hospital emergency rooms. Incredibly, nearly half of all American kids have been bitten by the age of 12. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that more than $100 million gets spent yearly treating dog bites in the nation's emergency rooms, and U.S. insurance companies paid out $250 million in dog-bite liability claims in 1996.

Pit bulls and pit-bull crosses (not always easy to distinguish) have caused more than a third of the nation's dog-bite fatalities since 1979 and a comparable proportion of serious injuries. The rising number of attacks, and the unease pit bulls and other dangerous dogs cause in public spaces, have spurred many municipalities to crack down with legislation ranging from muzzle laws to bans on pit bulls and certain other breeds."

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

Viper- Ban pits and another pit like dog will appear. Underground pits will still be there, as enforcement is so poor.


Sandy

[Too Tall]

My std. poddle kills dinner twice a day. Is that ok?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Pits aren't a bad breed - how they are trained/used makes all the difference.

. . . when you're out on the street or in any other venue where one of these dogs approaches you--with stranger owner or without--you have NO idea how it has been raised, trained, used, or anything else about it. None. Zip. Nada.

It could be the most lovable, sweetest, friendliest dog in the world. OR it could just be waiting to tear your face off. Trouble is . . . You. Don't. Know.

If they're the size of a full-grown pit or larger I'm not going near them.

BBD

[J.Greene]

Sheesh! Pits aren't a bad breed - how they are trained/used makes all the difference.

I disagree with this. We use beagles to rabbit hunt because of certain traits that have been there for centuries. Coon dogs the same too. All dogs have traits that have been developed. The size, stanima, and agreesion in a pit has had a specific purpose for longer than we know. You aint gonna be nice to it and untrain all what has been bred into a specific breed. When an animal operates on instinct, that is when trouble happens. Just watch a beagle follow his nose into the street and never look up.

JG

[Dekonick]

Oh boy - I am in trouble as my dog is a pit/boxer/beagle mix. He will head out nose down and not look while chewing some poor kids arm off... :p

Yes genetics do play - a fish lives in water cuz its got gills...

[J.Greene]

This debate is current with me. My boys are showing they can treat an animal with kindenss and respect. We are looking for a breed that will mix well with young children. I'd like to find a good rescue shelter dog who is maybe past the hyper years, but is able to adjust willingly to a great family. The lesson that an older animal is worth being saved is something I'd like the boys to experience.

JG

[Sandy]

Nice. :)

My ex-girlfriend had a yellow lab, Bailey. Great looking dog, but she gave him ZERO guidance, lessons or manners etc, he was OC. I met him and he was wild, nuts and he would nibble/bite a little bit too strongly. He caught one of my fingers and it was deep enough for some blood. I gave my girlfriend some money for dinner/take out and let her know I needed to stay behind for e-mails etc. She left and I took Bailey for a 'walk'. We went outside and he received a lesson in King of the Mountain. He never bleed and no punches were ever thrown, but he got his arse whipped.

I taught him in 15 minutes what he didn't learn in two years. From that day forward he was a stormtrooper and I was Obi Wan sitting in a Landspeeder FTW.

Poor way of teaching/training a dog anything, I'd say.


Sandy

[Viper]

I would walk my dog 100% of the time if it was a pit, and would probably use a harness. I would obedience train the dog and build a very secure fence. He would never be outside in the neighborhood unless I was with him or her. He probably wouldn't even be in my back yard very much without my direct supervision. I would be a very responsible owner. I would talk to my neighbors before even adopting a pit to see how they would feel about it.

Sandy

Sandy,

It *seems* that many of attacks from pit bulls...are towards it's owner's and their family.

What does this tell you? I keep stressing this fact and I don't know how else to deliver the news other than to say again, if you do the homework, research and watch these videos, you'll see that if you own a pit bull, he/she may very well attack you, your wife, your children or grandchildren. Nobody can be blamed, no poor walking techniques or poor fencing; the dogs are killing their own family!

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, said Spock. Too many attacks from pit bulls, killing and mauling their owners, their owner's children, strangers and other animals...the Federal Government is most likely years away from having to step in...local Governments are already doing so. I am pushing local government to forge ahead towards a ban of pit bulls; we had a vicious attack in my town/village.

Please watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJSzGFBUi8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKm1MOPlUoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTMLG-3CXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiyNxS2NuE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ranT1aKZLmY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNP5o1qSRrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9erwN6K9OnA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dGRE3_PCjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G700_zPJ1eU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb7qzHHZeCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ58mWiRHYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGOHQB9zQsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOVaQhMic0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqtZ3uX2HgY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgyA-raV5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NESk29pQtK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dleF-RR0Ue0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybl5uv2JgEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNtbNarPBU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bY4C0yXO7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tASqgpbrfR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm5cLQReEG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyk7HYpVwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xn3mTOmp38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDJi44mQF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhrclPDiJOk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6wxwPcV-48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__jAjseQWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5mPoe5Wxk4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8NiNCKqIQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxbOBMPlJKw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxhZEgKBm_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDDOQCdOEXQ

GRAPHIC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta_WbcEz2N0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OrCg8c874

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynoO2YI9MY

[Viper]

Poor way of teaching/training a dog anything, I'd say.


Sandy


We all have different styles Sandy. Steel, aluminum, carbon, strong, weak and meek. Bailey needed to learn 'strong' and he did. Perhaps you could teach pit bull owners how to teach/train their dog not to bite, maul and kill?

Edit: You're right, banning dogs won't cure the issue, but it is logical. And so is self-defense; if that vicious pit bull which was loose in my town finds me during my bike ride and attacks me, it will be killed. I'll get scratched, maybe bitten, but the dog will die. I wouldn't reason with an attacking, violent dog and my Oakelys aren't rose-colored.

[Blue Jays]

Watched a random selection of videos in the thread. It seems people enjoy hearing their own commentary and using the words "Pit Bull" when they actually mean to use the words "dog" instead.

"Yo, man. Like, that Pit Bull, was like, yo, bite, yo. And like keepin' it real."

[christian]

Between 1982 and 2006, there were 264 recorded fatalities as a result of dog attack in the US. That's about 11 per year. Each year, there are approximately 700 bicycle fatalities.

That'd be a non-sequitor, except this is a bicycle forum.

I hope King gets a lovely responsible home. Rescuing a dog is one of the small things a person can do which genuinely results in a bit of good in the world.

[Edit: Blue Jays, on top of good taste, you're a clever sort!]

[Sandy]

. . . when you're out on the street or in any other venue where one of these dogs approaches you--with stranger owner or without--you have NO idea how it has been raised, trained, used, or anything else about it. None. Zip. Nada.

It could be the most lovable, sweetest, friendliest dog in the world. OR it could just be waiting to tear your face off. Trouble is . . . You. Don't. Know.

If they're the size of a full-grown pit or larger I'm not going near them.

BBD

I think that the overwhelming majority of dogs do not want to to "tear your face off..." I think that the percentage of dogs that want to bite you is in itself very small- some may want to chase, but few really want to bite. The percentage that want to 'tear your face off" is exceptionally small.

However, your approach is most reasonable. If I see a pit with someone, I almost always approach and ask the owner if it is ok if I say hello to the dog. If a pit was not with its owner, I would be much more hesitant in approaching the dog. If it didn't have tags or appeared to be in an area ouside of where it lives, I would try to take it to a shelter, if possible, as long as if it did not communicate a dominant aggressive, I want to eat you behavior. Then I would say away, unless it started to act more reasonably.


Sandy

[sspielman]

My wife is active in dog rescue...mostly Wire Fox Terriers....You just never know when you will have to go get one from a shelter or some bad situation. Last friday afternoon she called me and said that we had to meet someone for an owner surrender....a four year old girl. So we hopped in the car and drove to pick her up. She was filthy...and smelled to high heaven...so we drove back home through the cold with the windows half open. This dog had been basically stored in her crate...except for short stints out to relieve herself. So my wife immediately set about scrubbing her up...while I scrubbed out her filthy crate. She slept quietly through the night. The next day, she was introduced to each of our other three dogs (two are rescues)...and played beautifully. She is an incredibly easy dog...especially for a WFT, but she is not inclined to take any crap from the other dogs....So she spent the day playing, napping, eating treats, and running errands with us. By saturday night, she was whining a little in her crate...so my wife brought her up into the bed...which made her VERY happy. So, I am submitting her for consideration in having set a new world record....for a dog going from neglect to being spoiled in exactly 24 hours...

[Sandy]

My wife is active in dog rescue...mostly Wire Fox Terriers....You just never know when you will have to go get one from a shelter or some bad situation. Last friday afternoon she called me and said that we had to meet someone for an owner surrender....a four year old girl. So we hopped in the car and drove to pick her up. She was filthy...and smelled to high heaven...so we drove back home through the cold with the windows half open. This dog had been basically stored in her crate...except for short stints out to relieve herself. So my wife immediately set about scrubbing her up...while I scrubbed out her filthy crate. She slept quietly through the night. The next day, she was introduced to each of our other three dogs (two are rescues)...and played beautifully. She is an incredibly easy dog...especially for a WFT, but she is not inclined to take any crap from the other dogs....So she spent the day playing, napping, eating treats, and running errands with us. By saturday night, she was whining a little in her crate...so my wife brought her up into the bed...which made her VERY happy. So, I am submitting her for consideration in having set a new world record....for a dog going from neglect to being spoiled in exactly 24 hours...

Your WFT proves how much smarter dogs are than people. I have been married for over 25 years and my wife has not spoiled me. I have spoiled her, however. Shows how much smarter wives are than husbands, I guess. Dogs and wives- very smart....Husbands-not so smart! :banana:


:) Stupid Sandy :)

[Tobias]

One only needs to look at the history, the gentic history of Rottys, Pit Bulls, Mastiffs etc to know what it is they are owning, buying and risking.Viper, I'm with you on Pit Bulls, but for the record, Mastiffs are a totally different breed that should not be confused in any way whatsoever. The English Mastiff as shown below is considered the "Gentle Giant" and the name is completely appropriate. IMHO an English Mastiff like this could kill a person much easier than a Pit Bull, but they don't.

I agree the main problem with Pit Bulls is not that they are strong and can kill (many breeds could kill children and old people) it's that they do so too often.

Unfortunately, Pit Bull attacks are one of the reasons I stopped riding my bike on long rides in the country by myself. Other dogs bite but Pit Bulls kill (in my area too many people have been killed by Pit Bulls -- fortunately no cyclist that I know of). After being chased by a couple I decided that it's too dangerous to be out alone until I get a license to carry a gun for my protection. Had they caught up to me I may not be writing this.

P.S. -- My friend in the picture is shy about her picture on the Internet.

[Blue Jays]

Where the heck are you guys riding that "violent Pit Bulls living in the country have killed too many people" and all that kind of stuff?
Shoot, my pulserate doesn't even so much as blip when I see dogs charging at me because 100% of the time (in my experience of the past decade) they have hit the Invisible Fence buried in the yard and come to a sharp halt.

[Sandy]

Mastiffs are indeed a much different breed than pits. So are rotties (rottweilers). Pits and rottweilers are the top two dogs causing fatal dog attacks in humans, I beleive, in some studies. Pretty sure of that.

Mastiffs really are giant. And they normally are gentle. So the name of "gentle giants" is quite appropriate, as you know. Not too many show up in the shelter, but when they do, what always stikes me is that they are huge and that they are really laid back, normally. I have seen other dogs in the shelter agitated and barking with a mastiff in the adjacent cage taking a nap. They don't seem to get wound up easily.

There was an outstanding experienced dog walker at the local shelter, who walked dogs regularly 2 times per week. He weighed maybe 150 pounds, I would guess. He once walked an adult mastiff- probably 170 pounds or so. The mastiff was walking on top of a hill, when the volunteer decided that it was time to take him in. Well, this sweet guy decided to sit down at that very instant, and he refused to budge. The volunteer who was very good in handling dogs and never asked for help, evaluated his position (or should I say the Mastiff's) and was wondering how he was going to get this giant inside, as he simply wouldn't move. I looked at him (the volunteer) and looked at the mastiff, very content in sitting still, and told the volunteer that HE sure did have a problem. I decided to help in the situation and I coaxed the dog somehow and he got up and went back to his cage. If he didn't, we would still be dragging that critter.....needing a hernia surgery afterwards, I am sure......


Matiffs are the "gentle giants" of dogville.


Sandy

[Viper]

Where the heck are you guys riding that "violent Pit Bulls living in the country have killed too many people" and all that kind of stuff?



These attacks are taking place in America. So anywhere you ride a bike in the United States of America, stuff like that.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJS...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKm1MOPlUoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTMLG-3CXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiy...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ranT1aKZLmY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNP5o1qSRrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9erwN6K9OnA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dGRE3_PCjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G700...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb7qzHHZeCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ58mWiRHYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGOHQB9zQsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOVaQhMic0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqtZ...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgyA-raV5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NESk29pQtK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dleF-RR0Ue0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybl5uv2JgEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNtbNarPBU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bY4C0yXO7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tASqgpbrfR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm5cLQReEG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyk7HYpVwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xn3mTOmp38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDJi44mQF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhrclPDiJOk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6wxwPcV-48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__jAjseQWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5mP...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8NiNCKqIQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxbO...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxhZEgKBm_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDDOQCdOEXQ

GRAPHIC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta_WbcEz2N0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OrCg8c874

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynoO2YI9MY

[Sandy]

The first time that a dog ever chased me, I stopped the bike. That is always what I do. I admonish the dog in a very distinct, firm, and loud voice. So far it has worked. I have been chased twice, in the couuntry, by the same pit bull, on a club ride. I stopped the bike and he was fine. He was really not aggressive at all and didn't look too ferocious during his chase. He was having fun and wasn't chasing in a detemined and aggressive manner. Think that I even petted him before I left to join the rest of the group.

I think that if I was chased in an inner city area by one or more pits, I would be much more fearful, but would still probably stop anyway and try to diffuse the situation.



Sandy

[benb]

It's the capability that is the issue.. the behavior is the icing on the cake..

How much capability for death does an animal have to have before it's unsafe?

Circus Handlers of Tigers & other big cats along with other people who have raised them might try to tell you their particular big cat is safe... and yet they always have a high risk of a deadly attack so society does not tolerate those animals as pets.

Pit Bulls have just gotten to the point where society has begun to think they are too dangerous for the general population to have them as pets. Pit Bull defenders can say their personal dogs are friendly till they are blue in the face, their dogs will still have the capability to inflict great harm or cause death and as long as they continue to do so as a breed society will become less and less accepting of them until they are banned everywhere.

If the attacks continue you will simply begin to be viewed as crazy in the same way a guy keeping a tiger or bear as a pet illegally is today.

[BURCH]

The first time that a dog ever chased me, I stopped the bike. That is always what I do. I admonish the dog in a very distinct, firm, and loud voice. So far it has worked. I have been chased twice, in the couuntry, by the same pit bull, on a club ride. I stopped the bike and he was fine. He was really not aggressive at all and didn't look too ferocious during his chase. He was having fun and wasn't chasing in a detemined and aggressive manner. Think that I even petted him before I left to join the rest of the group.

I think that if I was chased in an inner city area by one or more pits, I would be much more fearful, but would still probably stop anyway and try to diffuse the situation.



Sandy


I was riding yesterday and a dog came running toward me from a yard. Just as I was about to stop (he looked friendly), the dog stopped at the yard's border and started running in circles (like chasing his tail). Over and over and over. It was so funny. I actually altered my ride to go back past the house and the dog did it again. It was too funny to see. He runs straight at me and stops then circles circles circles...circles circles.

[Dekonick]

I don't know - if any dog is chasing me I try to outride it - IF I were in the city or a pack of dogs were after me I DEFINITELY would ride hard.

I am a dog lover, and any dog I rescue is taken to obedience school for evaluation and tips on training - but I don't necessarily trust how other owners 'train' their pets.

I had a dog that would chase on an old route I used to ride - he put up a good front! A squirt from a water bottle and he ran away every time. I was not gonna stop to see if he was friendly or not.

Dunno - the issue of bad individual dogs is a serious one. It is an owner's responsibility to ensure his/her pet is under control - but somehow the bad dogs seem to have owners that don't care...

Makes one wonder -

Bad owners (dog fight owners, irresponsible owners, etc...) seem attracted to bad arse dogs....

bad arse dogs without proper management tend to become a problem...

bad arse dog breed gets bad rap because a few dogs cause widely publicized
terrible injury/death

:)

I just am a little sensitive to this issue as my dog is fantastic with people and kids - submissive, loving, loyal, but a lot of people are afraid of him.

[Ginger]

I was riding yesterday and a dog came running toward me from a yard. Just as I was about to stop (he looked friendly), the dog stopped at the yard's border and started running in circles (like chasing his tail). Over and over and over. It was so funny. I actually altered my ride to go back past the house and the dog did it again. It was too funny to see. He runs straight at me and stops then circles circles circles...circles circles.


Yeah. I love invisible fence. Best invention to promote "good dogs" even if they aren't.

I make sure I say "Good Doggie" when the pups stop like that.

[Viper]

It's the capability that is the issue.. the behavior is the icing on the cake..

How much capability for death does an animal have to have before it's unsafe?

Circus Handlers of Tigers & other big cats along with other people who have raised them might try to tell you their particular big cat is safe... and yet they always have a high risk of a deadly attack so society does not tolerate those animals as pets.

Pit Bulls have just gotten to the point where society has begun to think they are too dangerous for the general population to have them as pets. Pit Bull defenders can say their personal dogs are friendly till they are blue in the face, their dogs will still have the capability to inflict great harm or cause death and as long as they continue to do so as a breed society will become less and less accepting of them until they are banned everywhere.

If the attacks continue you will simply begin to be viewed as crazy in the same way a guy keeping a tiger or bear as a pet illegally is today.

+1

[ti_boi]

Yeah. I love invisible fence. Best invention to promote "good dogs" even if they aren't.

I make sure I say "Good Doggie" when the pups stop like that.


I hate the invisible fence.. :crap: ..my friend's little elderly dog was sitting in his yard and was attacked and killed by a neighbor's dog who came into the yard across the invisible...useless fence. They were really broken up about the incident and I must say if that has been one of my dogs I would be writing this from a state pen.....good fences make good neighbors.


There is a pit bull that wanders around that is probably less than a year old....my neighbors must have gotten it for their teenaged kids....he wanders through their hedges and was in the yard next to ours looking up at our fenced yard. My two little fellas were taking the air, and the elderly neighbor was looking through her windows wondering what the dog was doing. It could be a bad a situation if it continues.

I am considering getting a firearm any because if the Depression begins, I might need to hunt deer to eat. How does pit bull taste? (joking!!!)

I would hate to use it on an animal like that ....Glad to say that I've a full 'real' fence around our property with locking gates. Pet owners need to wake up though. These dogs can be problems especially for small dogs.


Finally, when I was a kid someone lobbed a hunk of meat over my fence. It was laced with Strychnine poison and it killed my German shepard nikki....I was about 12 years-old. Not a good experience.....The dog was intimidating I suppose. It barked too at people and could be threatening...But that move was cold-hearted.

[Sandy]

I will be visiting King the pit bull at the shelter in a little while. However, if a pit bull was unleashed and roaming my neighborhood, I would immediately report it to animal control and insist that they come out and try to locate the dog. I do respect the ability of pits to do great harm to people, cats, and dogs. Appears as if the "owners" are not very responsible. Yes Viper, a roaming pit could be a recipe for disaster....especially for other dogs and cats.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Yeah. I love invisible fence. Best invention to promote "good dogs" even if they aren't.

I make sure I say "Good Doggie" when the pups stop like that.

Don't like them. Best invention to mask the lack of training of a dog and/or the unwillingness to build an adequate fence.


Shocking Sizzling Smodering Serotta Sandy

[DarrenCT]

imho the invisible fence is a must. u never know when a dog could "snap". they are animals and killing is in their blood lines

a good fence is better, although, it still scares the hell out of me when i see a dog running after me :crap:

[93legendti]

imho the invisible fence is a must. u never know when a dog could "snap". they are animals and killing is in their blood lines

a good fence is better, although, it still scares the hell out of me when i see a dog running after me :crap:

My brother rented a house to a tenant with an Akita (spell?). The dog dug underneath the fence and mauled 2 small dogs in the neighborhood.

[DarrenCT]

My brother rented a house to a tenant with an Akita (spell?). The dog dug underneath the fence and mauled 2 small dogs in the neighborhood.

ack!

i guess a fence isnt the best.

maybe i should practice sprinting just in case i have to "put the peddle to the metal"

[ti_boi]

I will be visiting King the pit bull at the shelter in a little while. However, if a pit bull was unleashed and roaming my neighborhood, I would immediately report it to animal control and insist that they come out and try to locate the dog. I do respect the ability of pits to do great harm to people, cats, and dogs. Appears as if the "owners" are not very responsible. Yes Viper, a roaming pit could be a recipe for disaster....especially for other dogs and cats.


Sandy


I hear ya...and yes, my fence could be breached with a dig under in one spot or another...this pit is just a pup and doubt it is mean....but it just goes to show how lax ownership can be even in this enlightened period in history.

[Blue Jays]

I randomly picked three of Viper's selection of hyperlinks and one of them was a "recap" of previously-reported attacks and the other two hyperlinks went to that same one of the female Animal Control officer dressed in green being bitten.
The same overweight lady with the red housecoat and the same neighbor with the football jersey and piece of wood clobbering the same dog.

[Viper]

I randomly picked three of Viper's selection of hyperlinks and one of them was a "recap" of previously-reported attacks and the other two hyperlinks went to that same one of the female Animal Control officer dressed in green being bitten.
The same overweight lady with the red housecoat and the same neighbor with the football jersey and piece of wood clobbering the same dog.

But....drumroll....what is your point? It's a good question here. Are you amused at the pit bull attacks? Do you find them funny? Is there anything worth mocking in them?

Why not randomly watch all of them. Yes. Pick out a duplicate. Re-post the 25 people whose lives are destroyed by a pit bull attack.

[Blue Jays]

I'd be interested in seeing the number of swimming pool accidents, inadvertent powertool injuries, slips on icy stairs, falling off rooftops, etc., etc. Those events are very likely hurting or killing far more people than a few dogs. Heck, one person posted a statistic that nearly 700 people per year are killed in bicycle accidents.

My point (aside from the one on top of my head) :D is likely a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.
The fact several randomly-selected video links are duplicates indicates the promlem may not be so widespread as illustrated by the series of hyperlinks.

[Viper]

I randomly picked three of Viper's selection of hyperlinks and one of them was a "recap" of previously-reported attacks and the other two hyperlinks went to that same one of the female Animal Control officer dressed in green being bitten.
The same overweight lady with the red housecoat and the same neighbor with the football jersey and piece of wood clobbering the same dog.

For Blue Jay's viewing. I'm sure you find nothing humorous in these links.

I've taken the time and effort for you, to place the videos for your viewing ease Blue Jay. Are you from Colorado? I believe they're working on a pit bull ban in parts of Colorado.



1). Here is a 7 year old killed by his own family's pit bull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKm1MOPlUoY


2). Here is an 8 year old mauled by his own family's pit bull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTMLG-3CXE

3). Here is a Mom, attacked on the street (she had to thrown her child into a metal garbage can to save him):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dGRE3_PCjA

4). A two year old girl attacked as the owner held the dog on the leash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgyA-raV5k

5). An elderly man attacked by three pitbulls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NESk29pQtK8

6). A 33 year old woman mauled by a group of pitbulls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dleF-RR0Ue0

7). An 11 year old girl is mauled by a pit bull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybl5uv2JgEs

8). A pitbull attaks it's own family's baby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNtbNarPBU

9). A 10 year old boy was mauled:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tASqgpbrfR4

10). A 23 year old woman is mauled:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDJi44mQF8

11). A two year old was mauled AND sodomized by a pit bull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhrclPDiJOk

12). A mail carrier is mauled:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8NiNCKqIQs

13). This man lost his entire face, graphic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta_WbcEz2N0

14). This 14 year old girl's face is ruined for life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiyNxS2NuE&feature=related

[DarrenCT]

"wow"

i scared of these dogs more than ever now

:confused:

[Viper]

"wow"

i scared of these dogs more than ever now

:confused:

Here is one (not a duplicate BJII) that I forgot to include:

15). A 6 year old boy eaten to death by his family's pit bull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G700_zPJ1eU&feature=related

[Archibald]

Pit bulls - Don't trust 'em. They may be the sweetest dog to walk the earth but they're been bred and artificially evolved for killing.

They do taste good though! Best in fajitas and other dishes where tough, stringy meat is not a bad thing. Mmmm Mmm! I find that many have a similiar appearance and texture to pork, but the flavor is quite a bit stronger depending on how it is prepared. Breed is a key factor here. I find poodle to be greasier - more like lamb. I think this is one reason why the consumption of dog meat is so popular. Pig always tastes like pig, cow like cow and chicken like chicken. Dog meat varies enough that you can constantly enjoy different tastes, all of which are strikingly good.

:banana:

[Lifelover]

As odd as it seems (to me anyway) I may have gained some insight from this thread. It has given me a greater understanding for how some African American men must feel. I have heard them discuss how they can tell that some older white people and often women seem very mistrusting of them.

I'm sure I could link a slue of statistics that show that Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate than white man for violent crimes. If I was so inclined, I'm sure I could find a slue of videos showing black men committing crimes or news reports discussing them.

By the logic of some posters in this thread I could therefore conclude that they are all dangerous and should only be approached if I'm carrying a weapon.

Of course I would be wrong but I would have the internet links on my side.

[Archibald]

As odd as it seems (to me anyway) I may have gain some insight from this thread. It has given me a greater understanding for how some African American men must feel. I have heard them discuss how they can tell that some older white people and often women seem very mistrusting of them.

I'm sure I could link a slue of statistics that show that Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate than white man for violent crimes. If I was so inclined, I'm sure I could find a slue of videos showing black men committing crimes or news reports discussing them.

By the logic of some posters in this thread I could therefore conclude that they are all dangerous and should only be approached if I'm carrying a weapon.

Of course I would be wrong but I would have the internet links on my side.
Slewiously?

[Ginger]

Good fences do make good neighbors.

I get chased by far fewer dogs when riding now that invisible fences are considered a reasonable expense for keeping people's animals on their property. A real fence can be jumped over or dug under. Gates are left open, people forget. People are lazy. As long as the batteries are kept fresh, the invisible fence keeps a dog home. No, it doesn't protect the dog from other dogs...if a dog is going to be left out, it shouldn't be left out unsupervised in an open area, invisible fence or not.



Lifelover...I understand the point you are attempting so poorly to make by pulling that card. You're not demonstrating brilliance. I'd appreciate if you edited your post. Thanks.

[Viper]

As odd as it seems (to me anyway) I may have gained some insight from this thread. It has given me a greater understanding for how some African American men must feel. I have heard them discuss how they can tell that some older white people and often women seem very mistrusting of them.

I'm sure I could link a slue of statistics that show that Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate than white man for violent crimes. If I was so inclined, I'm sure I could find a slue of videos showing black men committing crimes or news reports discussing them.

By the logic of some posters in this thread I could therefore conclude that they are all dangerous and should only be approached if I'm carrying a weapon.

Of course I would be wrong but I would have the internet links on my side.

I must be missing something here, seriously?

Facts: Pit bulls are indeed extremely dangerous to society, local governements around the country are finally catching up to the facts around them, listening to voters, some cities and countries have banned the dog entirely and the videos support all of these facts.

Pretend one of your loved ones is in a video above. It is NIMBY when it comes to deadly dogs?

If you have a point, thrust forward with it. Prove or disprove the level of danger in our society to pit bulls. Instead of attacking a point, try to prove your beliefs.

[Viper]

Good fences do make good neighbors.

I get chased by far fewer dogs when riding now that invisible fences are considered a reasonable expense for keeping people's animals on their property. A real fence can be jumped over or dug under. Gates are left open, people forget. People are lazy. As long as the batteries are kept fresh, the invisible fence keeps a dog home. No, it doesn't protect the dog from other dogs...if a dog is going to be left out, it shouldn't be left out unsupervised in an open area, invisible fence or not.

Fences. But what if many of the pit bull attacks take place within the owner's home? The pit bull kills within? Cause that's taking place chronically.

How could a fence stop/prevent this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G700_zPJ1eU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNtbNarPBU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTMLG-3CXE

[Lifelover]

I must be missing something here, seriously?

Facts: Pit bulls are indeed extremely dangerous to society, local governements around the country are finally catching up to the facts around them, listening to voters, some cities and countries have banned the dog entirely and the videos support all of these facts.

Pretend one of your loved ones is in a video above. It is NIMBY when it comes to deadly dogs?

If you have a point, thrust forward with it. Approve or disprove the level of danger in our society to pit bulls. Instead of attacking a point, try to prove your beliefs.


I have no more chance of convincing you that Pit Bulls are fine than you do of convincing me they are a great menace.

"Just because you say it with conviction, don't mean ***** to me"

If you are incapable of understanding my analogy as presented than you most likely never will.

Maybe it is even way off base. It's just what came to mind.

[Serotta_James]

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand...

[A.L.Breguet]

Let's stop this before it gets out of hand...
Too late.

[alembical]

Bailey didn't need to know why he was taken for a walk. He was on a need-to-know basis and he learned all he needed to know. From that day forward, all he needed was my look, a snap of my finger and a command; he went from C3-PO to R2-D2 in one day.

Been around dogs for 37 years, raised two Sachs'-Lug-Level hunting Labs, my folks breed Labs for 15 years and I've read 'Call of the Wild' about fifty times. :) Bailey got schooled in the art of:

Man > mountain of organic matter

And no, I'll never own a pit bull. Yellow and Black Labradors FTW.

Viper, I enjoyed reading the first 4 pages of this discussion... until I got to this quote, and that scares me. You really do not seem to know much about dog behavior.

So you have shown that dog you are dominant and that is it. What about when that dog gets around your partner, a kid, anyone other than you. Think he will be an wiser from that "Lesson" you taught him?

And for the record, I am definitely more apprehensive of Pits and the only dog I have ever had a problem with was a pit who attacked my dog and it took 4 of us to get him off.

Alembical

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pm4100E2diRLNk8Gli8aP_tpUnCrNzQzhcfSxvzF6n5yLezT iCenZSaGrKnBmG5OBJkzynnUoMuk

[Viper]

Viper, I enjoyed reading the first 3 pages of this discussion... until I got to this quote, and that scares me. You really do not seem to know much about dog behavior.

So you have shown that dog you are dominant and that is it. What about when that dog gets around your partner, a kid, anyone other than you. Think he will be an wiser from that "Lesson" you taught him?

Alembical

Thanks for asking, Bailey has grown up to be a wonderful dog. Some dogs run off to the Coast Guard and others hear the call for the Marine Corps; Bailey was a wild hippie, had his basic training and turned out to be an officer and a gentleman. :)

Bailey is not a pit bull.

Did you read about this in Oregon:

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_111107_news_gresham_pit_bull_shot_killed_.1fd9 44d98.html


Gresham police shoot, kill aggressive pit bull

09:09 AM PST on Sunday, November 11, 2007

GRESHAM -- Police shot and killed one aggressive pit bull and wounded a second one Saturday while trying to serve a search warrant at a Gresham home, authorities said.

When officers approached the house, they could hear dogs barking inside, so they asked a suspect later arrested on drug charges to secure the dogs and she made them think she did, said Sgt. Claudio Grandgean.

However, the pit bulls apparently got out from the backyard. They lunged at an officer who shot and killed one dog and wounded the other, according to Grandgean.

Police arrested Denise Rene Johnson, 55, on drug charges. The incident occurred at SE 185th and Lincoln on Saturday afternoon.

These also took place in Oregon:

http://www.newsreview.info/article/20070928/NEWS/70928012

http://network.bestfriends.org/thepitstop/news/2663.html

http://www.kval.com/news/local/10904661.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/118741844038700.xml&coll=7

[alembical]

Thanks for asking, Bailey has grown up to be a wonderful dog. Some dogs run off to the Coast Guard and others hear the call for the Marine Corps; Bailey was a wild hippie, had his basic training and turned out to be an officer and a gentleman. :)

Bailey is not a pit bull.

Did you read about this in Oregon:



I think you got lucky. Showed a dog you were number one, but did nothing for his place among other people and in fact might have made things worse by adding violence into his life, resulting in him not being sure his place but possibly thinking he might have to show some dominance on his quest to be 2nd dog. You are alpha, but where does he fit in?

That said, I am glad you all got lucky and it turned out fine. They almost always do. Not real sure you should be proud of what you did, especially in a thread like this about dog violence and great people doing great work for good organizations.

Yes, I read that recent story. We have a pit next door to us and I try to socialize as much as possible with it, because the breed scares me, much more than a 120 lb malamute, husky, rot, mastiff, etc.. would....... well, that and the fact that they do not train it at all.

** EDITED to add : This thread is at least in part about the roles people play in dogs behavior and they way you treated that dog is the same way many people treat their dogs, and in my opinion one of the reasons why there are so many problems.

That said, I 100% believe in differences among the breeds as a result of generations of selective breeding. I would personally never get a pit bull, in part because of the chance they might snap, but in part because I like being friendly and people approaching me and my dog and wanting to pet my dog as he licks their face. With pits, I might find myself being too scared and others too scared to approach.

Alembical

[Viper]

I think you got lucky. Showed a dog you were number one, but did nothing for his place among other people and in fact might have made things worse by adding violence into his life, resulting in him not being sure his place but possibly thinking he might have to show some dominance on his quest to be 2nd dog. You are alpha, but where does he fit in?

That said, I am glad you all got lucky and it turned out fine. They almost always do. Not real sure you should be proud of what you did, especially in a thread like this about dog violence and great people doing great work for good organizations.

Yes, I read that recent story. We have a pit next door to us and I try to socialize as much as possible with it, because the breed scares me, much more than a 120 lb malamute, husky, rot, mastiff, etc.. would....... well, that and the fact that they do not train it at all.

Alembical

Bailey is just fine and thank you again for asking yet again, horses for courses. How you handle it when a dog bites you, draws blood is your decision and your choice. I wouldn't spend a lot of time wondering what Bailey learned that day, but feel free. The fact that Bailey is a wonderful old man is proof he did well that day and every day forward.

Did you know Oregon is looked at as pit bull fighting region? Also, a wee disturbing what they do out there on your coast:

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_102006_news_sex_with_dog_.58b02035.html

[alembical]

I did know that Oregon has a huge pit bull fighting problem and actually have the contact number for one of the organizations helping to stop fight the problem on my cell phone for local reporting of suspicious activity.

The fact that Bailey did not bite anyone does not mean you did not mess up. Hard to admit I realize.

Alembical

[alembical]

Sandy,

I think it is great that you are working with the local shelter. I have never met you, but think I would like you. You seem like a great guy. There are lots of great dogs out there. I would suggest looking for one that makes the best fit for you and your family.

Alembical

[Viper]

I did know that Oregon has a huge pit bull fighting problem and actually have the contact number for one of the organizations helping to stop fight the problem on my cell phone for local reporting of suspicious activity.

The fact that Bailey did not bite anyone does not mean you did not mess up. Hard to admit I realize.

Alembical

Are you obsessed with Bailey? Do you want him to bite someone?

Aside: I for one am against the banning of dodgeball. Ya know there's some places where they want tag banned too. Life's tough. A dog that bites has two choices: learn real fast how life works or be taken to the pound and put to sleep, Bailey had the former.