Concept 2 with Slide attachment?

[Ray]

I haven't used the Concept 2 at my gym since last winter sometime. Stopped in today to do a half hour or so of rowing and found that the rowers were on these little sliding things that allowed the entire machine to float around. It took a bit of getting used to but I got into a rhythm and put in my half hour. But I didn't really get what it was supposed to improve. Then I just checked out the website (http://www.concept2.com/us/products/accessories/slides.asp?bhcp=1) and see that I was doing it all wrong. From the little video they show, the body of the person doing the rowing is supposed to stay basically stationary, with the machine floating back and forth underneath the person and on top of the 'slider' units. I wasn't doing that at all - the unit and I were flying to the back of the 'slides' on the pull stroke (and smacking into the rear 'stops' at the back of the stroke) and then flying forward on the return (and hitting the front stops pretty hard). Made quite a lot of noise, I was noticing.

So I was doing it all wrong. I'm going to have to see if I can get into the right motion when I go back. Has anyone else used this setup? If so, how do you like it? Does it seem to improve the workout? I seem to be feeling all of the same parts I always do after spending time on a rower.

-Ray

[Louis]

I've never done it, but heard that it's supposed to feel more like on-water rowing. If your only experience is out of the water, then it's probably just weirdness.

[Too Tall]

This teaches you to slow the slide down and not "check" the boat. It is not rowing for a faster erg time it is all about technique that transfers to the water. It's kinda lame for folks who do not row outside if you know what I mean.

[Kevan]

there'll be pot hole simulators for spin bikes.

Damn hard bunny-hopping a spin bike.

[Ray]

This teaches you to slow the slide down and not "check" the boat. It is not rowing for a faster erg time it is all about technique that transfers to the water. It's kinda lame for folks who do not row outside if you know what I mean.
That'd make it kind of lame for me, since I don't row outside. But the only machines at my gym are on the damn things, so I 'spose I should learn how to use 'em RIGHT if I'm going to have to use them. Knowing what its supposed to look like, I'll take another shot the next time I'm there and see if I can get the motion down so I float while the machine moves for and aft under me.

Always with the new challenges - OY!

-Ray

[Ginger]

And the light dawns...

This would explain why I always wanted to yell at the people on the (stationary) ergs at the gym that "You're doing it all wrong"

And why they'd try to tell me that *I* was doing it all wrong...but all I'd rowed before was on open water...

it's the same, but different.

After watching different people row indoors, and chatting with people at the gym...I came to the conclusion that those who were used to rowing in a boat were in general smoother...less prone to abrupt movements...

Not that I was very smooth...but it was interesting to guess.

[William]

This teaches you to slow the slide down and not "check" the boat. It is not rowing for a faster erg time it is all about technique that transfers to the water.

Bingo!

I came to the conclusion that those who were used to rowing in a boat were in general smoother...less prone to abrupt movements...


I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people on Ergs and I just cringe at their rowing technique "JUST STOP NOW!!!!" ;) I would absolutly agree that those who have rowed on the water are almost always smoother on the erg. That doesn't mean that a land lubber can't get smooth. On the water, it boils down to my favorite saying: "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast".

Give me two to three minutes with a person and I can generally get them to smooth right out.

As far as the floaters, I don't really care for them.


C2William

[Louis]

Another way to improve technique on the indoor non-slide rower is to go strapless. I do all my cardio stuff strapless and it does promote smoother rowing.

[Too Tall]

Louis this is a family oriented board :rolleyes:

BigWilly, *IF* I qualify to go to Boston in my age group for crash-b will you come and yell at me? Given my 2k test time last yr. I'm on the bubble...really close.

[William]

Louis this is a family oriented board :rolleyes:

BigWilly, *IF* I qualify to go to Boston in my age group for crash-b will you come and yell at me? Given my 2k test time last yr. I'm on the bubble...really close.


Have lungs, will travel. I've bellowed more then a few teamates into good Erg times. :banana:



William

[Sandy]

Bingo!




I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people on Ergs and I just cringe at their rowing technique "JUST STOP NOW!!!!" ;) I would absolutly agree that those who have rowed on the water are almost always smoother on the erg. That doesn't mean that a land lubber can't get smooth. On the water, it boils down to my favorite saying: "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast".

Give me two to three minutes with a person and I can generally get them to smooth right out.

As far as the floaters, I don't really care for them.


C2William

Yeah- " Give me two ot three minutes with a person and I can generally get them to smooth right out." Bet you can. After two or three minutes of you beating up on them, I guess that you can get their limp body to do whatever you want it to.... :) :)


Sandy

[Bradford]

I just cringe at their rowing technique
If you are just rowing indoors, and only care about fitness, how important is a smooth technique?

[BURCH]

Don't get me going on the erg. What a beautiful yet evil piece of equipment.


This sound increases my heart rate by 10bpm by just hearing it.

ZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZ

[BURCH]

If you are just rowing indoors, and only care about fitness, how important is a smooth technique?

You will get a better workout with proper technique. I have seen people on the erg that are not really getting the full workout because they are not fully extending their legs or are using too much arm versus leg. If you really get your legs going and then finish properly with the arms, the workout is extremely harder. Some people get on and barely bend their legs and use all back and arms. It is almost a waste of their time.

[William]

You will get a better workout with proper technique. I have seen people on the erg that are not really getting the full workout because they are not fully extending their legs or are using too much arm versus leg. If you really get your legs going and then finish properly with the arms, the workout is extremely harder. Some people get on and barely bend their legs and use all back and arms. It is almost a waste of their time.

Exactly. Plus, I've seen people risking injury in not knowing how to do it properly. I haven't seen one health club ever post the poster that comes with the Erg about proper technique. You get a vid too, but they can't really show that. Heck, many personal trainers don't even know how to use one to get the most out of it.


William

PS: SANDY, GET OVER HERE!!!! :D

[merckx]

The sliders are a tool to teach swing and to learn how to lock in at the catch while minimizing check. If you don't understand what this means, then I would suggest that you skip the sliders.

A quick primer on technique:

The Recovery. Always begin recovery by moving hands away from the body first. When the arms are almost extended, then swing the shoulders forward by pivoting from the hips. Avoid slouching. Shoulders high and use the hip joint as the articulation point. This position is what I call "body prep". Once the handle is past the knees, release the seat by letting the knees pop up. The body prep does not change as you allow the seat to move the body forward to the catch. Stay relaxed with shoulders high (no slouching) and let the seat do all of the work.

The Drive. When you achieve maximum leg compression (shins vertical), squeeze against the balls of your feet and allow your heels to sink against the foot board. It is important not to let the seat stop at the catch. The transition from recovery to drive should be seamless. As you squeeze the knees down, don't pull the elbows into the stroke. Let the arms hang from the handle like you are hanging from a pull-up bar. When you reach half slide (halfway through the leg drive), begin to squeeze the shoulders back into the finish. No arms yet. When the legs are finished, continue to squeeze the back into the finish just a few degrees past vertical. When the back is just about "set" into the finish, then squeeze the elbows into the finish and continue to push off the balls of your feet even though your legs are flat. The arms should finish last and the elbows should point back so that the handle finishes just below the sternum. The real trick to efficient rowing is to learn to use your body weight through the drive. If you can learn to "hang" from the oar and keep pressure on the foot board throughout the stroke, you will get it. Most folks lift their back at the catch and pull too early with the arms. This directs force down on the seat rather than accelerating the body weight into the finish. Also, using the arms early in the stroke will fatigue them early and will compromise the use of the larger leg and back muscles. Think big muscles to smaller muscles through the drive.

[Too Tall]

Merckx - fantastic description of a classic technique. FWIIW I attended rowing "camp" this summer at Calm Waters with Charlotte Hollings and John Dunn. They are over the top with video analysis of olympic and current winning races. What is interesting to me is that they break down new techniques in detail than try it on the water. As a newbie to the sport I know NUTTIN thus am a sponge. Charlotte and John are teaching me technique that resembles nothing like what my local coach teaches "hands away" etc. I've found that when I row with my coach or in a double with an elite...I just follow their technique and when on my own work on what Charlotte and John teach...I'm probably going to sculling he!! for that however in time I think I'll suss out what works best for me.

For now, I'm off the water and starting my prep. for crash-b pukefest. Turning 50 this yr. makes me competitive...pathetic ain't it?

[William]

X2, excellent description.




William

[merckx]

Merckx - fantastic description of a classic technique. FWIIW I attended rowing "camp" this summer at Calm Waters with Charlotte Hollings and John Dunn. They are over the top with video analysis of olympic and current winning races. What is interesting to me is that they break down new techniques in detail than try it on the water. As a newbie to the sport I know NUTTIN thus am a sponge. Charlotte and John are teaching me technique that resembles nothing like what my local coach teaches "hands away" etc. I've found that when I row with my coach or in a double with an elite...I just follow their technique and when on my own work on what Charlotte and John teach...I'm probably going to sculling he!! for that however in time I think I'll suss out what works best for me.

For now, I'm off the water and starting my prep. for crash-b pukefest. Turning 50 this yr. makes me competitive...pathetic ain't it?

When I teach rowing, I don't teach technique; I teach efficiency. It turns out that some things are classic for a reason. For example, if body prep is not taught correctly, then watch what happens to a crew when they are rowing at 40+ strokes per minute off the start line. Kinda fun to watch if it isn't your crew. The Euros tend to sit differently than us in the boat. More rounded back and lower shoulders. You should see some of those guys when they are 50+. Even I drag my knuckles when I walk, but I don't drag my elbows.

[Ray]

The sliders are a tool to teach swing and to learn how to lock in at the catch while minimizing check. If you don't understand what this means, then I would suggest that you skip the sliders.

I don't know what that means and I wish I could skip the sliders, but they're on the machines and I don't think they'd take kindly to me removing them. So, I'm going to have to learn to do it right. As such, THANK YOU for your excellent description. I'm going to print it out and take it with me the next time I use the rower.

-Ray

[merckx]

The machines just sit on the sliders are are not fixed as such. Simply lift the machine off of them and set it on the floor. You are good to go to get your work done. Enjoy.

[merckx]

A little more on the Euro round back, low shoulder position. I feel that this leaves your back vulnerable to injury. This position opens the vertebra and leaves the discs vulnerable to injury. You can get away with this if: you are really strong (i.e. good torso strength), or chose the right parents (genes). When you drive the legs at the catch and allow your back (low shoulders, round back) to absorb the stress.....lookout. The only thing round should be the tubing on your bicycle.

[ButtedMoron]

or for short
Drive: legs-back-arms-hands
recover: hands-arms -back-legs

former heavyweight engine room and I could swing both ways, either 2 or 3 seat. nttawwt

when recovery is done right and in sync the boat leaps forward
done wrong and maximizing check and the boat stutters, ugly

there are few feelings in team athletics as cool as a boat just ripping in sync

next time a rowing race is on the tele or in your local waters, pay attention. you can actually see it.

nothing like pegging the needle on the drive (I'm old school erg guy I guess)
and having it barely move on the recover

[merckx]

When the recovery is done right, the body stays in one place and the boat squirts out beneath you.

[ButtedMoron]

when done right you pull the boat underneath you

and ooh what a feeling

[merckx]

ButtedMoron, you are my new pal.

[ButtedMoron]

is this the point in our relationship where I also confess I own 3 Merckx Bicyles?
Have 2 molteni colored Merckx Jerseys (the 90's Giordana w/ the Cannibal on the Back) signed by the man himself?
Had a picture of the 1969 TdF Break over the Tourmalet over my daughters crib?

do you race CX? cause it'll remind you of that "what am I doing to myself" experience of rowing

[merckx]

Former CX competitor. Rowing eats into my fall weekend days now. I am also a former Merckx owner. I've had four in total. The last one was an MXL. I just sold it this summer. Big mistake. However, the Zank and Peg are up to the task of hauling my fat arse up the New Belgium cols. BTW, I began my rowing career in 1975 which is a year after I began my competitive cycling career. I have been coaching collegiate rowing now for 18 years. I've been dreaming about winning the Tour for about, um......30 years. There's still time right?

[ButtedMoron]

she goes to my grave

rowed in college after I got sick of my water polo coach

I compete at cycling but as a former heavyweight engine room, well I'm never gonna wear no polk dot jerseys

[Ray]

Back to the Concept 2 today for the first time since the original post. Having watched the video and understood how you're sposed to stay stationary while the 'boat' moves fore and aft under you, I hopped on and had zero problems. Felt very right and natural. Don't know if that means I'm naturally gifted - I strongly suspect not. I think it's just a pretty easy thing to get the hang of. Now that I've done it, I don't mind it at all. I'll be interested to see how I like it the next time I go back to a Concept 2 without the slippery little f%ckers. By the way, I didn't follow anyone's advice - I just tried to do like in the pictures. Easy as pie.

Gotta go have some pie,

-Ray