An All Steel Coeur d'Acier for Sandy??

[Sandy]

Steel bike for me? Today, Smiley and I went for an easy ride in the park of about 21 miles, he on his fixed gear and me on his borrowed beautiful all steel Uniscasi. I own one bike- Ottrott ST and have been considering purchasing another one, preferably a steel bike as I thoroughly enjoyed my CSI for several years, and I really don’t want to pay present prices for carbon, carbon ti, or titanium custom bikes. In addition, I want to stay loyal to Serotta.

My thoughts about the ride of the all steel Unicasi versus the Ottrott ST and my previous steel bike, CSI, are as follows:

The 1998 CSI (CSi to some), with the F1 fork and built with oversized tubing, was like a wonderful friend- Always gave a rock solid, stable, adhered to the ground, balanced feeling. It was easy to control, very efficient in transferring pedal input into forward motion, and was confidence inspiring. Ride quality was excellent. It communicated that it would do whatever you wanted in a dignified, predictable, and stable manner. It felt neither heavy or light.

The 2004 Ottrott ST, with its F2 fork, gives a much different feel than the CSI. It feels much quicker, lighter, and significantly more alive than the CSI. It is also quite stable, but I feel as if I have to pay more attention to it than to the steady and dignified CSI. I prefer the F1 fork to the F2 as it seemed as if it kept the front end more adhered to the road. In 2004, there were 4 tubing choices for the Ottrott- Soft, Medium, Firm Flex, and Stiff, In addition, there were two ST choices. My bike uses the Firm Flex tubing and the softer of the two ST stays. Contrary to many, I do not feel that the Ottrott ST gives a plush ride- more than acceptable, but more harsh than the CSI, especially since going from 225-235 pounds down to 190 pounds. The Ottrott ST feels a little more efficient in transferring pedal input into forward motion. The Ottrott communicates to me a let’s go feeling- Tell me what you want, and I will do it very quickly and efficiently and you better be up to the task. A lively and quick feel.

I expected the all steel Uniscasi to ride much more like the CSI than the Ottrott ST. I was incorrect. In just a few pedal strokes, I realized that the newer steel is not like what existed in 1998. The Unicasi was surprisingly lively and light in feel. It possessed the stability found in all Serottas, and responded to pedal input very efficiently- surprisingly so. I particularly liked the manner in which the bike moved as I pedaled off the saddle. Ride quality appeared significantly better than the Ottrott. Smiley’s bike has the 6.5 F3 fork, which I liked. The 8.5 F3 fork will probably be a better choice for me. The all steel Unicasi seems as if it is a child of the Ottrott ST and the CSI, with the best characteristics of both. It seemed stable, predictable, lively, light, easy to control, efficient in transferring pedal input, possessing excellent ride quality. I really enjoyed riding it. Great bike. Looks as if my next purchase will be some iteration of an all steel Coeur d’Acier.


Previously Steel Serotta Sandy, presently ST Serotta Sandy and in the future,


Sometimes Steel Serotta Sandy Sometimes ST Serotta Sandy

[Fixed]

and fixed too but i'm waitin on a new track frame
cheers

[DarrenCT]

csi = steady. very steady.

sandy my man. i agree.

[Sandy]

csi = steady. very steady.

sandy my man. i agree.

Nice way of describing the csi- Steady. very steady.


Somewhat Steady Somewhat Stable Somewhat Simple Serotta Sandy

[Lifelover]

I suspect that my riding style is closer to yours than it is to some of the others on the forum.

If the ride is as you describe, you may grow very fond of the steel bike and find yourself shying away from the Ottrott.

IMO, slower handling bikes ride better at slow speeds.

[Sandy]

I suspect that my riding style is closer to yours than it is to some of the others on the forum.

If the ride is as you describe, you may grow very fond of the steel bike and find yourself shying away from the Ottrott.

IMO, slower handling bikes ride better at slow speeds.

The stability of a bike is absolutey critical to me. I know that I do not handle a bike very well. I suspect that my ability to handle a bike is almost always inferior to most of those who I ride with. I need a bike the is very stable and I have no interest in one that is quick handling. Excessively quick handling bikes scare me.

Sandy

[Sandy]

I will probably get a single color. I am conservative and do not like much on my bike relative to decals. Will probably only have a couple of S decals, and no Serotta decals. My CSI was midnight blue in color, which I really liked. I might get that. I saw a candy apple red frame at Saratoga Springs some years back and thought that it was beautiful. Not sure if that will work for my conservative manner.

Handy Dandy Candy Randy Sandy

[djg]

Nu, so what's not to like? Get the road geometry you like with clearance front and back for true 25s. It'll be a nice bike. Simple is good (I like a "serotta" on the down tube, "s" decals on the seat tube and head tube, and you don't need a thing on the stays or top tube, but that's just me). Arancio is a great color, or either of the white colors -- but there are a bunch that look good. For candy, do a search for my cross under the images.

[Big Dan]

Simply Steel Sandy......

:)

[Ozz]

...I expected the all steel Uniscasi to ride much more like the CSI than the Ottrott ST. I was incorrect. ...
How is the geometry different on the CSI vs Ottrott vs Unicasi that you rode?

just curious....

[Pete Serotta]

SAndy, place the order this week and I will have a bottle of red in your honor :D

[Fat Robert]

no carbon anywhere sandman

get the steel frame and have somebody make you a steel fork

trust me

you'll be very happy

[Sandy]

no carbon anywhere sandman

get the steel frame and have somebody make you a steel fork

trust me

you'll be very happy

Don't even know if it is possible to go in that direction if I wanted to. There are two CDA models- Custom SE and custom GS. The GS comes with the S Fork and the SE with the F3 fork. The GS model does not have an all steel seat stay option, only the SE. But both are quoted as framesets. I really don't know if Serotta will sell frames only.


Sandy

[Serotta PETE]

Sandy, many of us have various opinions of steel vs carbon fork.....

Keep in mind that the F fork by SEROTTA is built by them and the specs are incorporated into the build and ride characteristics of the frame. You will be happy with it, (Just ask SMILEY).

Back when there was a choice, I asked Kelly which I should get on my CSI that he built. He recommended the carbon and I could not be happier. (He has a carbon on his steel bike also)

PETE


Don't even know if it is possible to go in that direction if I wanted to. There are two CDA models- Custom SE and custom GS. The GS comes with the S Fork and the SE with the F3 fork. The GS model does not have an all steel seat stay option, only the SE. But both are quoted as framesets. I really don't know if Serotta will sell frames only.


Sandy

[Larry]

Hey Sandy!

O.K........If you loved your Csi, then a new CDA will really make you smile.
The new model just does it all better!
You will be grinning from ear to ear. :) :D :)

[Sandy]

Sandy, many of us have various opinions of steel vs carbon fork.....

Keep in mind that the F fork by SEROTTA is built by them and the specs are incorporated into the build and ride characteristics of the frame. You will be happy with it, (Just ask SMILEY).

Back when there was a choice, I asked Kelly which I should get on my CSI that he built. He recommended the carbon and I could not be happier. (He has a carbon on his steel bike also)

PETE

I agree that I would like a Serotta built crbon fork. Don't you mean the F3 fork, not the F fork? Too much red tonight.....? :)


Schlitz Sandy

[Sandy]

Hey Sandy!

O.K........If you loved your Csi, then a new CDA will really make you smile.
The new model just does it all better!
You will be grinning from ear to ear. :) :D :)

Based upon my test ride of the all steel Uniscasi, I totally agree- Does it all better and I will be grinning when I ride it!


A, B, CDA, F, G, H,....., Alphabet Sandy

[H.Frank Beshear]

Sandy, many of us have various opinions of steel vs carbon fork.....

Keep in mind that the F fork by SEROTTA is built by them and the specs are incorporated into the build and ride characteristics of the frame. You will be happy with it, (Just ask SMILEY).

Back when there was a choice, I asked Kelly which I should get on my CSI that he built. He recommended the carbon and I could not be happier. (He has a carbon on his steel bike also)

PETE

There was another brazer at Serotta once upon a time (who shall remain nameless ;) ) that builds and prefers steel forks. I like the ti and carbon offerings from Serotta but for steel,..well not so much. I'd like to try a Meivici someday to see what all the fuss is about. Steel bikes deserve a well built designed for the rider and bike handmade steel fork, ymmv. It is the only issue that would keep me from considering another Serotta in steel. Ti and carbon are a different story. Pete, I hope to see you next year in NY. We'll drink more red this time and less beer, well more red anyway. :beer: jomo Frank

[Dan Le foot]

I got just the deal for you, Sandy.
PM sent.
Dan

[Fixed]

bro a steel fork might be in the works
cheers imho
:beer:

[Sandy]

How is the geometry different on the CSI vs Ottrott vs Unicasi that you rode?

just curious....

Geometry specs on Smiley's bike first, my Ottrott underneath:

58.5 st, 58tt, 72 sta, 3.2 cm ht extension, 73 hta, 42.5 cm chainstay
57 st, 57tt, 73sta, 2.8 cm ht extension, 73 hta, 42 cm chainstay

Both bikes have 43 mm rake and 5.9cm trail

My bike has a 2 degree slope. His has none. I am not sure if the ht extensions are measured the same way as mine appears more, if I remember correctly. The 57tt is a virtual horizontal tt (2 degree slope).


Sandy

[Pete Serotta]

I agree that I would like a Serotta built crbon fork. Don't you mean the F3 fork, not the F fork? Too much red tonight.....? :)


Schlitz Sandy

no red tonight...I was a good boy. I like the Fbut they have the other lower price fork...thought that was the F. Sorry

[Pete Serotta]

Frank, look forward to seeing you in NY.....I like that Belgian beer you had...

Tom is a bad influence on my red drinking ;) ;)

There was another brazer at Serotta once upon a time (who shall remain nameless ;) ) that builds and prefers steel forks. I like the ti and carbon offerings from Serotta but for steel,..well not so much. I'd like to try a Meivici someday to see what all the fuss is about. Steel bikes deserve a well built designed for the rider and bike handmade steel fork, ymmv. It is the only issue that would keep me from considering another Serotta in steel. Ti and carbon are a different story. Pete, I hope to see you next year in NY. We'll drink more red this time and less beer, well more red anyway. :beer: jomo Frank

[Sandy]

I have decided to order an all steel CDA, with the F3 fork. I am very conservative, but really like the candy apple red paint, so frame will be candy apple red, no paint on F3 fork, black wheels, spokes, and hubs (on Tune wheelset), and S decal on head tube. No Serotta or Coeur d'Acier decals. The less decals the better I like a bike, normally.

Thanks all for any input into my choice. I appreciate all that you do for me here.


Sandy

[Kevan]

Think about a bike that will really broaden your cycling experience. Imagine a trike that can handle size 32 tires, fenders, maybe a good size bag to carry your sizable lunches. How about a gearing that will enable the bike to climb a tree? Think about asking Serotta to help you build a country-style bike.

The variance in the spectrum of riding style would be so much wider and the difference would complement the Ottrott, not compete.

[fiamme red]

Think about a bike that will really broaden your cycling experience. Imagine a trike that can handle size 32 tires, fenders, maybe a good size bag to carry your sizable lunches. How about a gearing that will enable the bike to climb a tree? Think about asking Serotta to help you build a country-style bike.

The variance in the spectrum of riding style would be so much wider and the difference would complement the Ottrott, not compete.I agree entirely with Kevan, and will add: how about a bike that you feel comfortable riding in your everyday clothes? A bike that doesn't require putting on a full cycling kit and shoes, that you can ride on a moment's whim. A bike that you can do errands on, with a rack and panniers or a basket to carry the things that you buy. A bike that you can lock up outside for a while.

Your Coeur d'Acier sounds like exactly the same kind of bike as the Ottrott, just a different color and material.

[Kevan]

Bar end shifters!

[Sandy]

I agree entirely with Kevan, and will add: how about a bike that you feel comfortable riding in your everyday clothes? A bike that doesn't require putting on a full cycling kit and shoes, that you can ride on a moment's whim. A bike that you can do errands on, with a rack and panniers or a basket to carry the things that you buy. A bike that you can lock up outside for a while.

Your Coeur d'Acier sounds like exactly the same kind of bike as the Ottrott, just a different color and material.

You have made an extremely valid point. I thought about what you have brought up prior to placing an order. Many have suggested, most reasonably, to purchase an entirely different type of bike, or at least one with capability for rack and panniers for touring etc. I did order eyelets for a small rack. I do hope to go on some longer rides and maybe some multiday rides, but I just don't think that I will ever have any interest in panniers or fenders on my bike. A small rack but nothing more will probably suffice for me. I love riding on the road. Bike trails scare me. I am not comfortable there at all.

I have one bike and thought that a second one would be nice to have. I always loved my steel bike, the CSI, and I do feel that the CDA will give a ride that takes the best of both the older steels and the carbon/ti mix.

I have no interest in running errands on a bike- that is the type of errands that require substantial carrying capacity. I use a car for that.

Bottom line is that your obdervation and analysis is quite accurate. However, the capabilty for a simple rear rack is all that I really think that I will ever need or want, even for multi day rides. I am normally limited in that direction anyway because of a family situation.

I think that the CDA wil give a lively and responsive ride, probably with better ride quality than my particular Ottrott.

I don't need another bike of any kind, although a second bike is nice to have, just like a second set of wheels in case there is a problem with the first. I just believe that my interest in cycling will always be road cycling, and hopefully longer rides, and tours will be in my future. A bike rack suffices, I believe.




Sandy

[djg]

I agree entirely with Kevan, and will add: how about a bike that you feel comfortable riding in your everyday clothes? A bike that doesn't require putting on a full cycling kit and shoes, that you can ride on a moment's whim. A bike that you can do errands on, with a rack and panniers or a basket to carry the things that you buy. A bike that you can lock up outside for a while.

Your Coeur d'Acier sounds like exactly the same kind of bike as the Ottrott, just a different color and material.

Well, there's a little different and a lot. I bet the CDA will seem different from the Ottrot when all's said and done. For a 2-mile errand or a jaunt to the bagle shop? He could pick up a beater for a couple hundred bucks or maybe nothing if he wants -- I'm not sure I'd change the decision on the CDA on those grounds, but to each his or her own.

[bhungerford]

I like Sandy's decision of getting a similar use bike, just a different material. Yes, if he chooses and conveys that he'd like it to have similar ride characteristics as his Ottrott, he'll have two very similar riding bikes, i doubt that they'd be the same, even if it's just a perception of his that they are slightly different rides. it's hard to go out and buy a brand new, fairly expensive bike and spec it for a type of riding you've never done before, that could be a costly piece of wall art. Sandy knows how he rides, and what he wants for those rides, and i think he made a great call

that being said, go get that townie/commuter/dirt road bike too! i've found recently that it's great having a wide variety of bikes to choose from, yes some of mine are very similar (well most are) but they're different enough to make me want to ride a different one every time i go out...although that could all change when i actually get to pick up my all steel CDA (won't have it untill thanksgiving)

Have fun with the CDA Sandy, and the Ottrott, and maybe something else in the near future too, the more bikes the better! :beer:

[Pete Serotta]

Knowing Sandy, I think he is right on with getting the CDA the way he has described.

At a later time, :) if he feels he would use a "all purpose" bike, there are many options out there from some very good builders. naturally a cross type bike from SEROTTA, or a roundabout from folks like Curt Goodrich, David Kirk, Hamspten, or even Rivendell would be interesting. :)

[Fixed]

bro don't sweat the fork even a die hard steel fork cat like me is goin to have a carbon fork on the new track bike

cheers