Question for fixed riders, esp. Fixed

[hansolo758]

I ask your indulgence...I'm new to fixed gear riding. Are there ever times when you're going downhill that you unclip, let the pedals spin free, and coast? If so, where do you put your feet -- are they splayed out from the bike on either side? I unclipped today on a downhill but for the life of me, I couldn't find anyplace to put my feet. I tried resting mine on the chainstay but couldn't avoid the pedals (fortunately, I didn't wipe out). Keeping them splayed out on either side looks, well, um...like something a man my age shouldn't do. I unclipped because I was pedalling so fast I was bobbing up and down on the seat. I'm sure it will get better with time but need some advice. Thanks for your help.

I love fixed gear riding, BTW, and wish I had gotten into it earlier. The connection with the road is like I had in my youth when I drove cars with manual transmission and rack-and-pinion steering.

[Fixed]

bro i live in fla and ride a 53 x17 but if i were you and i had to unclip fork crown for feet but i don't do it
fixed = freedom imho
cheers :beer:
11.4 is way smarter than i am about all things fixed he will give you a good ans.
I unclipped because I was pedalling so fast I was bobbing up and down
bro i think that will go away in time imho

[Ti Designs]

I ask your indulgence...I'm new to fixed gear riding. Are there ever times when you're going downhill that you unclip, let the pedals spin free, and coast?

No.

[DarrenCT]

No.

i've never ridden a fixed however unclipping does seem like a bad idea :)

[regularguy412]

When I first started riding my original fixie, I used the rollers for a week or two. Then when I ventured outside, I stuck mainly to flatter terrain and only gradually worked into steeper and steeper hills. There was no free side, since it was a vertical dropout conversion using a regular road wheel.

My new fixed will have 42 x 16 on the fixed side and 42 x 20 on the free side. That'll make it a little easier in the hills -- coast down the backside.

Mike in AR

[Fixed]

DarrenCT
ba-da-bing

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti Designs
No.


i've never ridden a fixed however unclipping does seem like a bad idea


if you know where you are goin it 's not
but you loose a lot of bike control when you do .imho :beer:
kids got to have fun try all kinds of stuff
a fixed isn't all about from point a to b it's how you get there
cheers

[11.4]

Fixed is right. Don't unclip. You have no control at that point. You can quickly get to where you can spin at 170-180 rpm on a downhill without bouncing, and when you get to the bottom you need to have your feet on the pedals. If you're worried about downhills (and I would say under any conditions anyway) you should have at least a front brake and a cog lockring if not front and rear brakes. There's a lot of expertise you need to gain in using a bike with one brake or with none -- learn it when you have the brakes to bail yourself out. If I was in Houston or Omaha or somewhere equally flat, I might ride a bit without brakes (and I used to do this at Trexlertown to get from the hotel to the track and all I had was my track bike). But not on hills.

[Fixed]

+ 1 for ft brake even if you lock up the back.. bike ain't goin stop
11.4 is the king thanks bro

[hansolo758]

I'll give it some time. I wondered about this and tried it only because I had read this post by someone who did the Davis double century on a fixed gear bike, where he refers to "feet-out coasting." (http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/05-15-04_davis_dc.html)

Based on today's experience, I have to agree you have little control when you're unclipped. I do ride with a front brake, so no worries there. Thanks again.

[Fixed]

thank you and welcome to the club the more you ride a fix the more you'll want to ride imho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8u-vwFA1BE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYWhJCzOh7Y

[chuckred]

Good video to show why front brakes make sense - thanks!

Liked the San Francisco one too!

[Fixed]

old man winter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5-9_0rwwN0
wake up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvL7vMyxEbg

[markie]

I am too scared to try taking my feet off-of the pedals, but I have seen others do it and it looks sketchy. Put your feet on your top-tube by your stem, or on your fork.

http://jonathanbruck.smugmug.com/gallery/3417285#191616838-L-LB

And always use a front brake.

[znfdl]

Hans:

I have been riding a fixed gear for about 15 years. I also ride with a front and rear brake, as I do a fair amount of hills. When I descend a hill, I totally relax my legs and let the momentum of the bike make them spin. It takes some getting used to doing, but quite worth it..

[Fixed]

there is something about this..is she is from venus ?
cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiE1Qm7HSd8


i watch this a lot

[Ti Designs]

Are there ever times when you're going downhill that you unclip, let the pedals spin free, and coast?

No.


I'm gonna keep trying until it sinks in...

[bironi]

I can spin downhills in the high cadence, but sometimes I just get lazy out on a quiet descent. I unclip from my frogs and cross my ankles over the rear fender. It's about the only chance I get for an upper body workout. I think my fixed buddies consider it cheating. Try it, you'll like it. :beer:

[Peter B]

I've ridden over 5000 fixed gear miles this year, including Paris-Brest-Paris. I live in a quite hilly area and run 48-17. I never unclip. My suggestion would be if you want to coast, run a freewheel. If you're going to ride fixed, learn to spin. Fit at least a front brake, relax on the descents, and before long you'll be able to handle 170+ cadence comfortably. :beer:

[Ti Designs]

No.

[Fixed]

I've ridden over 5000 fixed gear miles this year, including Paris-Brest-Paris. I live in a quite hilly area and run 48-17. I never unclip. My suggestion would be if you want to coast, run a freewheel. If you're going to ride fixed, learn to spin. Fit at least a front brake, relax on the descents, and before long you'll be able to handle 170+ cadence comfortably. :beer:


my new hero post more bro please
cheers

[hansolo758]

No.


I'm gonna keep trying until it sinks in...

bro, I got it the first time, and thanks for the advice.

[jsfoster]

[QUOTE=Fixed]there is something about this..is she is from venus ?
cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiE1Qm7HSd8


Fixed, Thanks for this video, it is a pleasure - shocking, but a pleasure.
-Jon

[DRZRM]

I've been riding fixed for about 2-3 years and love it, I grab that bike 65-75% of the time when I'm headed out the door. I've seen folks unclipping in videos (esp that video filmed in NYC when they are coming down the bridge) but I don't think there's a lot of reason to ever do it. As my body has gotten used to it, the 1/2 mile hill on my commute home has changed from a fear-instilling-out-of-control-spin-out-until-you-grab-the-brake the first time I did it (I run a 48-20 btw for hills, so the cadences do get pretty high) to a well controlled decent (still with legs going a mile a minute, I'd estimate close to 200 rpm at the fastest bit). I still remember the first time I did it without brakes proudly. You just get used to it and it becomes controlled over time, like any aspect of biking. You may have to play around with your gear inches until you get it right. My bike came with a 16, and it was just too hilly around Boston for me to use it. I went to 18 first and then to a 20. A may go back to the 18 someday, but not just yet. BTW I do run a front brake, but I rarely use it.

I ask your indulgence...I'm new to fixed gear riding. Are there ever times when you're going downhill that you unclip, let the pedals spin free, and coast? If so, where do you put your feet -- are they splayed out from the bike on either side? I unclipped today on a downhill but for the life of me, I couldn't find anyplace to put my feet. I tried resting mine on the chainstay but couldn't avoid the pedals (fortunately, I didn't wipe out). Keeping them splayed out on either side looks, well, um...like something a man my age shouldn't do. I unclipped because I was pedalling so fast I was bobbing up and down on the seat. I'm sure it will get better with time but need some advice. Thanks for your help.

I love fixed gear riding, BTW, and wish I had gotten into it earlier. The connection with the road is like I had in my youth when I drove cars with manual transmission and rack-and-pinion steering.

[Oirad]

Thanks all for the interesting thread and responses. Fixed and 11.4 are absolutely right. Don't unclip. I've been riding fixed for nearly 20 years. It's all I ever ride really, a '88 Wicked Fat Chance fixed (36 x 16) on fire roads and for the occasional trail riding. My road beast is an ANT (Mike Flanigan) frame (built up with parts from my previous road fixed, 44 x 17), a beautiful thing. Besides the excellent advice of experienced forum members, I'd like to add that you should try to control your spin (i.e. slow it down) not by holding back, stiffly. Rather, relax and focus. Calmness is the key. After a while you develop a little kinesthetic awareness, that is the joy of riding fixed. You also learn to spin real, real fast.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing more about your riding. Riding fixed at a fairly good cadence 90-110 rpm for an hour (what e-Richie says to do) will get you into pretty good shape.

Oirad

[Fixed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2gwN_kDLmA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv35s_WurCc

[Ray]

When I descend a hill, I totally relax my legs and let the momentum of the bike make them spin. It takes some getting used to doing, but quite worth it..
Really - totally relax the legs? I've seen a couple of responses here that claim this and I've never been able to take that approach. I find that I have to really get on top of the pedals and stay ahead of them to handle the 150+ rpm descents. I'm providing the impetus for the bike's movement up to about 120-130, but somewhere in there I start bouncing a bit, telling me the pedals are getting ahead of me. At that point I have to make a somewhat conscious decision (less conscious when I'm riding fixed a lot, more so when I'm not) to really get on top of the spin. While I'm not powering the pedals, I have to really spin my legs aggressively to stay ahead of, or on top of, the pedal's rotation. When I try to just totally relax my legs at those speeds, bad things happen. The more I ride, the more second nature this process becomes and I also don't freak out about it anymore, so its more relaxed than it was at first, but it's an active process, not a passive one. My butt even usually comes up off the saddle a half inch or so to facilitate that high-cadence spinning.

Do most of you really relax at those rpm's or do you have to work it to stay on top of it?

And, oh yeah, I'll add to the chorus that says NEVER take your feet off of the pedals on purpose.

-Ray

[Ti Designs]

Thanks all for the interesting thread and responses. Fixed and 11.4 are absolutely right. Don't unclip.


What am I, chopped liver???

As for riding down hill, it's a combination of relaxing and turning the pedals over as fast as you can. The muscles do fire, but there's very little fiber recruitment going on. If you were to relax 100% the bike would throw you all over the place, something has to keep your feet going in the right direction and your joints pivoting at the right times.

I do all my pedal stroke work on the trainer because it's total control over all parameters ('cept maybe what's on TV - I subjected myself to the first 10 minutes of the Martha Stuart show the other day, hardest workout of my life!) Anyway, I do a series of one leg pedal stroke drills, turning the pedals at 40 - 50 RPMs and concentrating on always driving with the right muscle group in the right direction. Between those I clip in with both in a nothing gear and spin it out. The one leg work gets my body in tune with which direction to be pushing, and the firing sequence, the spin cycle seems easy. With each cycle I add at least 5 RPMs to the spin and pretty soon I'm sitting dead soild on the saddle at 160RPMs.

If ever you get into roller racing (the ultimate in pointless leg speed) there's another technique used to "get on top of the gear". Above 200 RPMs the idea of dead soild in the saddle goes out the window in favor of using hip rotation within the pedal stroke. It feels like your body is slightly lifted off the saddle, and the hips will move as the pedals go 'round. At some point the glutes can't relax fast enough to get the pedal over the top of the stroke. The lift off the saddle and the hip movement make up for that added force and give the rider another 10 RPMs to work with.


And the answer to the original question is still no.

[Fixed]

ti's the man bro his stuff is good imho
thanks for all the advise you give it's helped me even if i don't understand it all
cheers :beer:

[benb]

I popped out going down a hill once when I had a brain fart and lost my spin...

It's about the same pucker factor as finding a truck going the wrong way down your lane or realizing you're riding across a big patch of ice at a high rate of speed.. not fun.

I vote no on doing it on purpose... IF I was going to do it I might want BMX style "pegs" on the rear axle and 2 strong brakes.

[11.4]

Really - totally relax the legs? I've seen a couple of responses here that claim this and I've never been able to take that approach. I find that I have to really get on top of the pedals and stay ahead of them to handle the 150+ rpm descents. I'm providing the impetus for the bike's movement up to about 120-130, but somewhere in there I start bouncing a bit, telling me the pedals are getting ahead of me. At that point I have to make a somewhat conscious decision (less conscious when I'm riding fixed a lot, more so when I'm not) to really get on top of the spin. While I'm not powering the pedals, I have to really spin my legs aggressively to stay ahead of, or on top of, the pedal's rotation. When I try to just totally relax my legs at those speeds, bad things happen. The more I ride, the more second nature this process becomes and I also don't freak out about it anymore, so its more relaxed than it was at first, but it's an active process, not a passive one. My butt even usually comes up off the saddle a half inch or so to facilitate that high-cadence spinning.-Ray

Two schools of thought here. If you are developing the reflexes to spin at high cadence, and are mostly trying to get your legs out of the way of themselves, what Ti describes is appropriate. At a certain point, you want to be able to push a big gear at high cadence, and you actually have to exert a lot of power and do so at very high repetition rates. This is harder. Do the high-cadence spinning first so at least your legs know how to do it, then with resistance applied, start accelerating into and maintaining the same cadences but at much higher power output. Successful racing is about turning a big gear at high cadence, which is a specific form of training. At that point, you are forcing your legs to rotate while applying force for a good part of the rotation. It doesn't mean you have to do the Rotorcranks kind of high-wattage output through 360 degrees, but you definitely will have to fix the ends of your current force stroke and at least make sure the upstroke on one leg isn't hindering the downstroke on the other leg. People sometimes get obsessed with trying to maximize 360 degree power output when you actually achieve more racing success by being somewhat uneven around the pedal stroke but having more power to put out overall. It's just a matter of being pragmatic about it -- if your first objective is to win, you do what works. If your first objective is to develop an evenly-powered round pedal stroke, then you do what you need for that. The latter may be of more use to a triathlete while the former is likely of more use in a typical track or road application where you have to give maximal outputs and ride at different exertion levels.

[Ray]

Two schools of thought here. If you are developing the reflexes to spin at high cadence, and are mostly trying to get your legs out of the way of themselves, what Ti describes is appropriate. At a certain point, you want to be able to push a big gear at high cadence, and you actually have to exert a lot of power and do so at very high repetition rates. This is harder. Do the high-cadence spinning first so at least your legs know how to do it, then with resistance applied, start accelerating into and maintaining the same cadences but at much higher power output. Successful racing is about turning a big gear at high cadence, which is a specific form of training. At that point, you are forcing your legs to rotate while applying force for a good part of the rotation. It doesn't mean you have to do the Rotorcranks kind of high-wattage output through 360 degrees, but you definitely will have to fix the ends of your current force stroke and at least make sure the upstroke on one leg isn't hindering the downstroke on the other leg. People sometimes get obsessed with trying to maximize 360 degree power output when you actually achieve more racing success by being somewhat uneven around the pedal stroke but having more power to put out overall. It's just a matter of being pragmatic about it -- if your first objective is to win, you do what works. If your first objective is to develop an evenly-powered round pedal stroke, then you do what you need for that. The latter may be of more use to a triathlete while the former is likely of more use in a typical track or road application where you have to give maximal outputs and ride at different exertion levels.
Well, that's all well and good, but I'm not talking about turning a big gear at high cadence and I'm not talking about riding a fixie for 'training'. I'm just talking about riding a fixie to ride a fixie and finding myself on a downhill where I have to spin upwards of 170 rpm or hit the front brake (which I'm not above doing, but I like to try not to most of the time). So the question isn't so much about pushing to generate power so much as needing to generate the leg speed to stay on top of cranks that want to be turning at 170+ rpm. I like TiDesigns' explanation - at a certain speed the hips get involved and that's where the butt comes up slightly off the seat. For him it happens around 200 rpm - for me probably closer to 160 or 170. But, in any case, it's not about total relaxation and it's not about generating power either. But its about ACTIVE leg speed as opposed to what sounded like the passive leg speed that others were referring to and to which I cannot relate at those kinds of cadences.

-Ray

[Fixed]

bro sometimes talkin about a fix and riding ...well kinda like the 3 blind men and the elephant imho
cheers i learning from you guys how other cats see riding

[markie]

At that point I have to make a somewhat conscious decision (less conscious when I'm riding fixed a lot, more so when I'm not) to really get on top of the spin. While I'm not powering the pedals, I have to really spin my legs aggressively to stay ahead of, or on top of, the pedal's rotation.

-Ray


Yeah, that it the same for me.On the way down I find myself over-taking geared riders who are coasting/taking it easy.