Ceramic rims...

[Avispa]

Are they worth the extra expense?

What the difference between a "CD" rim and a ceramic rim?

Thanks!

..A..

[Gothard]

CD stands for "couche dure", i.e. hard layer, which is anodising on the rim.
A ceramic coated rim will literally not wear at all over the years, and keep its color. Gives more predictible braking when wet.
It also seems that the coating is a thermal barrier, that will prevent tubular glue from softening on longer descents (have not checked that yet).
I have used them for over 15 years now and they still look new.
Some say the coating is fragile, but my experience with them is zero problem.

[Ray]

CD stands for "couche dure", i.e. hard layer, which is anodising on the rim.
A ceramic coated rim will literally not wear at all over the years, and keep its color. Gives more predictible braking when wet.
It also seems that the coating is a thermal barrier, that will prevent tubular glue from softening on longer descents (have not checked that yet).
I have used them for over 15 years now and they still look new.
Some say the coating is fragile, but my experience with them is zero problem.
I have a set of wheels with ceramic rims. Open Pro in front and I think a matrix or something in back. They're my wet weather and touring (when wet weather is always a possibility) wheels. They're MUCH better than standard rims in the rain, but the tradeoff is that they eat brake pads for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Overkill for day to day riding, but a nice option to have in the garage. I wish I'd had 'em at the Finger Lakes Ramble in '06 - one of the wettest day I've had on the bike and my bike wouldn't even slow down, let alone stop, with normal rims that day. I was white-knuckling even mild descents. With ceramics, I'd have been fine.

-Ray

[vaxn8r]

We used them on our tandem for years. They absolutely wear out but so does everything on a tandem. I wouldn't recommend them for a single.

[Gothard]

Weird,
I heard and read about accelerated pad wear. Has not happened to me.

[LegendRider]

I purchased a set Open Pro ceramics with DA 7800 hubs about a month ago. They definitely acclerated the wear on Koolstop salmon pads. I'm now using Swisstop green - too early to tell if they'll wear quickly too. The wheels don't seem to stop any better in dry conditions. In retrospect, I probably should have gotten the machined sidewall version.

[theprep]

Use Ceramic Specific brake pads and you won't have the brake pad wear problem. Ceramic pads are super hard, almost metal like. No way your finger nail would indent it for instance.

I use Shimano Ceramic V-Brake pads on Mavic Ceramic MTB hoops and I prefer the braking to disks.

[caleb]

Use Ceramic Specific brake pads and you won't have the brake pad wear problem. Ceramic pads are super hard, almost metal like. No way your finger nail would indent it for instance.


Right now I'm running OP Ceramics with the stock pads in Mavic SSC brakes. They make an almost gritty, abrasive sound when braking - louder than a machined sidewall. Do ceramic-specific brake pads have any impact on the noise or feel of the braking?

Aside from the noise, I can tell little difference from a machined sidewall, although I don't generally ride them in the rain.

I bought them because they look cool and last forever.

[Grant McLean]

What the difference between a "CD" rim and a ceramic rim?

..A..

Just to clarify, the ceramic coating is only on the braking surface,
making the sidewalls black. The CD coating is on the whole rim, making it
a dark greyish brown.

so there are models where the rim can be silver, and have the ceramic sidewalls
(making the sidewall black)
or the rim can be anodized a colour like black, and have a ceramic sidewall,
(making the entire rim black)
or it can also be a CD rim with a ceramic sidewall.

The current Open Pro Ceramic model is black anodized with a ceramic sidewall, with the new silver sparkle stickers.

There are older Ceramic Open Pro's were CD anodized. They have the red
mavic labels, not the new silver labels that run along the edge.

-g

[Avispa]

Based on what you fellows are saying, looks like ceramic rims are a good thing to have for an additional set of wheels... So, definitely a good choice.

For instance, for the Finger Lakes Ramble, I would be thinking of Record 32 hole hubs. Mavic Ceramic rims and... what spokes?

Thanks again!

..A..

[theprep]

Right now I'm running OP Ceramics with the stock pads in Mavic SSC brakes. They make an almost gritty, abrasive sound when braking - louder than a machined sidewall. Do ceramic-specific brake pads have any impact on the noise or feel of the braking?

Aside from the noise, I can tell little difference from a machined sidewall, although I don't generally ride them in the rain.

I bought them because they look cool and last forever.

I think you will still have that gritty "different" sound while braking. The brake lever will feel a lot firmer with the ceramic pads. In my MTB application it is a very linear progression of power as well as stronger overall.

[djg21]

Based on what you fellows are saying, looks like ceramic rims are a good thing to have for an additional set of wheels... So, definitely a good choice.

For instance, for the Finger Lakes Ramble, I would be thinking of Record 32 hole hubs. Mavic Ceramic rims and... what spokes?

Thanks again!

..A..

I ride on ceramic rims. All my wheels are built with Open CD ceramics. I prefer them because the braking surfaces are a bit harder than the CDs, making them a bit more durable and suitable for big riders. They are also much better in wet weather.

Regardiing brake pads, you will need to use ceramic-specific pads. I prefer the Kool-Stop Green pads.

The only hassle involved is changing wheelsets. If you have a wheelset that is not ceramic, you will need to replace the brake pads when you switch wheels. If you do not, you will destroy your non-ceramic rims.

There is also a scarcity of pre-made race wheels with ceramic braking surfaces. I think only Zipp makes wheels with silica-ceramic braking surfaces.

Spokes -- I build my 32h wheels 3x with 14/15 double-butted spokes, and I use brass nipples at least on the rear wheel. The weight I'd save using alloy nipples is marginal at best.

[crossjunkee]

I've had the same set of ceramic rims on my mountain bike for 7-8 years, still look new. Of course I don't ride that bike everyday.

[11.4]

I ride on both Mavic ceramic rims and on various rims with bare metal or hard anodized braking surfaces. I don't have any trouble switching between them, and don't have any special problems with brake pad wear. If I use carbon brake pads on the ceramics I find the braking is reduced a bit.

The older ceramic rims from Mavic had a ceramic coating that tended to flake off, but the newer ones with the reflective labels hold up really well. The big benefit of ceramic rims in my book is that they don't wear like bare aluminum rims and certainly look a lot better over time than rims with anodized sidewalls that get scored by brake pads. I haven't actually dinged a rim yet -- the ceramic may flake at that point (this is often what happened with Reflex ceramic tubular rims).

Braking is slightly different -- a bare aluminum rim in dry weather will out-brake a ceramic rim, but a ceramic rim will somewhat outperform the bare aluminum in the wet. Braking is a matter of contact friction and the ceramic coating isn't continuous so there's less actual surface to touch the brake pads, hence less maximum dry braking, but the ceramic breaks the water film on the rim in wet weather. This seems to be consistent regardless of which brake pad gets used -- from KoolStop soft salmon pads to Swisstop yellow ceramic pads.

Except for cosmetics, I wouldn't go overboard on ceramic rims. There are only a couple alternatives, and there are simply better rims out there. I'd buy a DT RR 1.2 deep-section clincher rim over any Mavic ceramic clincher rim -- it's just a much nicer rim.

[Avispa]

...Swisstop yellow ceramic pads.

I thought SwisStop yellows were for carbon. But if they work fine with ceramics I am set!

I actually have yellow pads on my bike.

..A..

[cmg]

"I would be thinking of Record 32 hole hubs. Mavic Ceramic rims and... what spokes?"

go with revolutions on the front or something equally light. on the rear you can use revolutions on the non-drive side but use a heavier spoke for the drive side, like wheelsmith DB14 or competitions. they'll be great.

[LegendRider]

I thought SwisStop yellows were for carbon. But if they work fine with ceramics I am set!

I actually have yellow pads on my bike.

..A..

The advertise the green pads for use with ceramic - yellow for carbon.

[bironi]

I have used the Mavic ceramic rims for years. They do hold up great in the PNW wet and grit. Worked great on the front breaking wheel on the fixed as well. The extra money is well worth the many extra miles. I to use the green Koolstop pads. The breaking surface starts out kinda sandy textured, but that is short-lived here in the PNW. :beer: