SapimCX-RAY bladed spokes, Tune freehub body suggestionsy

[Sandy]

I am purchasing two handbuilt wheels to replace the two old wheels that I have used for several years each. Each wheel is being built by a forum member and poster- Jeremy and ergott. Jeremy built the previous two. I was extremely satisfied with both. I have a couple of questions, one for each wheelset.

First-I have dealt with Jeremy for some years and find him to be remarkably honest, helpful, exceptionally knowledgeable, and sincere- An amazingly wonderful individual to work with. His wheel builds are painstakingly done and superior. Someone that you can trust. My relationship with ergott has been recent and hence much shorter in duration, but he has exhibited the same type of professionalism, genuine help,knowledge base, and patient willingness to field varying questions which emanate from changes in potential wheel builds. He also has been a genuine pleasure to deal with. I highly recommend either of them to build you wheels (although I have not actually received my first set from ergott).

Secondly- my questions-

I am using Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes on one, and possibly that or Sapim double butted ("roound") spokes on the other. One builder tends to like the CX-Ray spokes much better than the other, who believes that the Sapim Laser and Sapim Race (duble butted) will do just about as well. The Sapim CX-Ray spokes are much more expensive and almost $100 to the build. Are they worth it, please? Using Kinlin 27 mm clincher rim on one and Niobium 30 mm clicher rim on the other.

In addition, I am using tune hubs on one build and Dura-Ace 7850 on the other build. One buider insists on using a ti freehub on the rear Tune Mag 180 hub in a build with Shimano. the second does not. Any thoughts on this issue? Also a difference of about $100.

The builders simply have a preference in the above, and that is understandable.

Thanks for any input into the matter.


Sandy

[J.Greene]

Sandy,
I'd ask both of those guys privately why they choose what they do. I'm not sure what's gained by a public discussion on these professional differences between two forum members.

JG

[jimcav]

and tune 180 vs whatever, pros/cons and as always take it with a grain of salt. if you assign names to the choices it really colors the discussion.

me, i'd go bladed and Tune. I think bladed spokes do make a small diffence with a semi aero rim. and tune hubs are great

[Kevan]

I wasn't given the opportunity to build your wheels.


I'da done it good to yuh...um, for yuh.

[Sandy]

Excellent point. I was just trying to see if some here have personal experience with either and how they like them. Certainly not open up a debate on professional differences. I don't really think one would categorize it as "professional differences" in that someone is right or someone is wrong. They were not really disagreeing- just preference. Either set of spokes will be fine,as either freehub. Just wanted to get real world personal experiences from members of the forum.


Just wanted some insight from those on the forum to determine whether it is worth the extra money.


Sandy

[LegendRider]

My experience with CX-Rays has been very poor. I ponied up for them having read they are the best, but I've broken three at the head (j bend) within the first 350 miles (rear wheel). I got so frustrated that I asked my LBS that wheel be rebuilt.

[Sandy]

and tune 180 vs whatever, pros/cons and as always take it with a grain of salt. if you assign names to the choices it really colors the discussion.

me, i'd go bladed and Tune. I think bladed spokes do make a small diffence with a semi aero rim. and tune hubs are great

Just wanted folks here to know how impressed I was with both of them. Perhaps that could help in either or both in receiving more business.


Sandy

[J.Greene]

Sandy,

I wrote that with hesitation because your reputation is one of having a thought out voice of reason. I just saw some potential for a problem.

I can add that I have a set of wheels with the tune hubs. I don't have the Ti option and they are holding up nice. You will like the hubs I think.

JG

Excellent point. I was just trying to see if some here have personal experience with either and how they like them. Certainly not open up a debate on professional differences. I don't really think one would categorize it as "professional differences" in that someone is right or someone is wrong. They were not really disagreeing- just preference. Either set of spokes will be fine,as either freehub. Just wanted to get real world personal experiences from members of the forum.


Just wanted some insight from those on the forum to determine whether it is worth the extra money.


Sandy

[Too Tall]

Dance with the one who brung yah.

I won't tell McDonalds how to make my burger either....I like surprises.

[Moosedryvr]

My experience with CX-Rays has been very poor. I ponied up for them having read they are the best, but I've broken three at the head (j bend) within the first 350 miles (rear wheel). I got so frustrated that I asked my LBS that wheel be rebuilt.

LegendRider,
I had the same experience initially, broke 5 at the j-bend in a week on RAGBRAI (got the wheels, built on CK hubs, just prior to the ride from a builder with a great online reputation). When I talked to the Zipp/Flashpoint reps at RAGBRAI to see if they could help, they said that it looked like the wheels were under-tensioned and said that that is often the cause of CX-Ray breaks. After I got back home I took the wheels to my local wheelbuilder, who has a great rep here, and he took a look. After a couple calls from him to the Sapim rep he determined that the spokes were about 50-60% under tension! When I called the original builder to see what was up he said he had been "real careful about using too much tension" as he didn't want to break the flanges on my expensive CK hubs. I had the local guy rebuild the wheels, again with CX-Rays, but this time at the suggested tension (which is really high by the way) and they have been bomb-proof ever since. By far my best set of wheels and I'd use CX-Rays again, but I'd make sure that the wheel builder is comfortable spinning them up to the recommended tension.
Lessons learned:
1. Crank 'em up.
2. Buy local.

Shawn G

[jimcav]

Just wanted folks here to know how impressed I was with both of them. Perhaps that could help in either or both in receiving more business. Sandy
as a this guys wants me to spend an extra 250, or this guy thinks shimano is as good as tune, etc.

anyway, whenever i can, and when it makes sense for what i do, i avoid shimano. That comes from years of frustration with their lower end stuff and their ubiquity. that said, my tri bike is shimano because in a pinch i can find some guy before the start who has a spare whatever. my old MTB was sram, my new anthem came with XT, but once it wears out i'll put sram on it.
I suppose it will just get harder, soon no matter what you want, it will be made in one of 3 factories in Taiwan or whatever, regardless of the parent company brand--but still i like to support the smaller company design if it functions well..

So, i say, if you can, go with the smaller company stuff.
jim

[crossjunkee]

I won't tell McDonalds how to make my burger either....I like surprises.

That's funny!

My current set is rolling CX-Ray Bladed. I'll be honest, I like the way they look. That's the only reason I went with them. I've had two wheelsets that use them, Zipp 303's and the current. I have never had a problem, and they get tons of compliments.

I'm confident that you shouldn't have a problem with the spokes. It's all abou the builder, and you're in good hands.

You can see my wheels here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=17968&highlight=spectrum

[jeffg]

My experience is that CX-Rays (and the DT equivalent) rule when built to proper tension

They are in Campy wheels such as Neutrons, I believe ...