Should I get this Hors?

[Javaman]

Okay, so I was desperately searching of one for quite some time now (and a Legend too). Well, yesterday I found one! Locally! Couple of issues though, It's custom made for the him (original owner). It'll fit me but I am concern with DKS rear end. You see this guy only weighed 160 when the Hors was built for him. I usually weigh 175-180, so I am wondering if this Hors will feel like a pogo stick under me (the Hors was not built up so I was not able to test ride it). Also, I know that Serotta does not offer replacement elastomers no more, the left elastomer has a small tear, real tiny. Would that be a major problem later on? He's not really willing to let go of his Hors so in order for me to convince him to sell it I had to offer him something that'll blow his socks off. Needless to say, I just want to make sure that I am not going to regret it if ever I ended up pulling the trigger. What to do...lose some weight, I know :rolleyes: . What about the tear on the elastomers? :crap:

[David Kirk]

I wouldn't sweat the 15 pounds. It should be fine.

The tear in the strap might be something to think about. Is it just in the ray silicone part? Is the metal affected? Is the tear near the top, the middle or the bottom?

Dave

[Javaman]

The tear is on the middle part. As far as I can tell it is only on the silicone. The metal straps are in good shape, couple of small dings but that's it.
:beer:

[David Kirk]

Can you explain the rip? Is it cross wise or along it's length? How deep and how long?

Dave

[Dekonick]

Perhaps you can take a picture of the tear and post/send it to Dave K. so he can analyze it. I would suspect (educated guess) that if it is a small tear you could probably keep it from getting worse by cleaning it, and taking some clear silicone caulk to 'bandage' or 'glue' it back together.

Master Kirkisimo?

[Javaman]

Dave,
The tear is more of a "scratch" iirc, it's crosswise. Hard to tell really. You have to run your finger on the silicone to notice it. It's probably 0.5 mm length and less than that in depth. Main concern I guess is what if it get worst?

Dekonick,
Thanks! I will take a picture later and post it here. I was actually thinking of doing exactly what you've suggested, "gluing" it.

Thanks guys! :beer:
J

[David Kirk]

There are no sure bets in life but I feel pretty confident that you could ride this thing for decades and have no trouble.

Have fun.

Dave

[Tobias]

He's not really willing to let go of his Hors so in order for me to convince him to sell it I had to offer him something that'll blow his socks off. Needless to say, I just want to make sure that I am not going to regret it if ever I ended up pulling the trigger.I’d proceed with due diligence and have it checked by an experienced Serotta dealer familiar with that model.

[Sandy]

I’d proceed with due diligence and have it checked by an experienced Serotta dealer familiar with that model.

Not a bad idea, but did you know that Dave Kirk designed the Hors rear? He undoubtedly knows more about it than all the Serotta dealers combined. I would trust his judgement.


Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

I’d proceed with due diligence and have it checked by an experienced Serotta dealer familiar with that model.

Now THATS funny considering Dave is answering the questions-

I bet most Serotta dealers haven't seen a Hors in person-

Jason

[Fixed]

dks = dave kirk something
imho cheers :beer:

[dirtdigger88]

dks = dave kirk something
imho cheers :beer:

suspension

Jason

[Karin Kirk]

dks = dave kirk something
imho cheers :beer:

DKS = Dave Kirk sweetie

:)

[Fixed]

dkss =dave kirk sweet suspension

[dirtdigger88]

DKS = Dave Kirk sweetie

:)

now Karin- I had my DKS all ready for tomorrows ride- :crap:

Ill be thinking about the sweetie thing the whole time now-

thanks :D

Jason

[Sandy]

DKS = Dave Kirk sweetie

:)

I like that! You are indeed Dave Kirk's sweetie! And he is your sweetheart!


Sweetie Sandy

[CNY rider]

I like that! You are indeed Dave Kirk's sweetie! And he is your sweetheart!


Sweetie Sandy
Karin just wanted to be sure you didn't think it was David, Kevan, Sandy suspension..........

[Tobias]

Not a bad idea, but did you know that Dave Kirk designed the Hors rear? He undoubtedly knows more about it than all the Serotta dealers combined. I would trust his judgement.


SandyYes Sandy, I know; and it doesn't affect my recommendation.

Due diligence, whether buying a business, house, car, or to a lesser degree a bike, is about obtaining information from various sources with little or no vested interest in the subject matter.

Requested information from this forum will be limited because David Kirk is held in such high esteem that no one would ever say anything negative about a DKS even if it was true. It would be like telling the Vatican that Jesus was fallible – it’s just not done. For that reason I recommended to reach beyond this forum for additional information.

When looking to buy a DKS I spoke in person with Serotta dealers who were in a position to discuss all aspects of the bike, not just the rosy side. I would do the same with any high-cost product I was researching to buy, particularly if it was discontinued. In my experience there are always two sides to every issue or product review; and relying on those with a vested interest as the only source of information is not a good idea.

I’m not questioning David’s integrity or technical feedback, just saying that when buying a house from a friend you should still do a title search. It’s just good business.

[Sandy]

Yes Sandy, I know; and it doesn't affect my recommendation.

Due diligence, whether buying a business, house, car, or to a lesser degree a bike, is about obtaining information from various sources with little or no vested interest in the subject matter.

Requested information from this forum will be limited because David Kirk is held in such high esteem that no one would ever say anything negative about a DKS even if it was true. It would be like telling the Vatican that Jesus was fallible – it’s just not done. For that reason I recommended to reach beyond this forum for additional information.

When looking to buy a DKS I spoke in person with Serotta dealers who were in a position to discuss all aspects of the bike, not just the rosy side. I would do the same with any high-cost product I was researching to buy, particularly if it was discontinued. In my experience there are always two sides to every issue or product review; and relying on those with a vested interest as the only source of information is not a good idea.

I’m not questioning David’s integrity or technical feedback, just saying that when buying a house from a friend you should still do a title search. It’s just good business.

Your points are very well made and certainly a very wise approach. More opinions, a possibly more balanced base of people and comments both good and bad makes sense. Granted, Dave Kirk has an absolutely stellar reputation because of two reasons, I believe- He produces beautiful bikes that seemingly ride very well and are obviously held in high esteem by those who ride them. In addition, he projects himself on the forum as being very knowledgeable, extremely articulate, helpful, caring, and humble. Because of his superb reputation, you are correct in basically saying that few, if any really contrasting opinions will be made on the forum. The same can be said about Richard Sachs.

However, if you read the original question again, you will see that the original poster basically asked two questions- one about the difference between his weight and that of the cyclist for whom the bike was made, and how that difference relates to the functioning of the DKS rear.. The second question was about a tear in one of the elastomers in the DKS rear. No where in his post did the original poster inquire about opinions of the bike.

Personally, I would, IN THIS INSTANCE, give more credence to what Dave Kirk says than all the dealers that sell Serottas. Why? Because he developed the DKS rear,probably has a better understanding of it then anyone, is a man of integrity and will be totally honest in what he says (my strong opinion), dealers experience with the DKS will often be limited at best, and very importantly the two questions that were asked were specificaly about the rear of the bike- the DKS system. Personally, IN THIS INSTANCE, I would trust Dave's judgement over the judgement of the first 10 dealers that the original poster might contact. Remember that no opinions on the ride of the bike were asked.

I trust Dave impicitly. He has no ego problem. I know that you are not questioning his integrity at all. I just think that in this situation, what he says is sufficient.


Sandy

[Gothard]

My experience:
I bought my Hors sight unseen with the help of a very reputable forum member. The frame was in NY, I was in Switzerland. No surprises.
I did not know what to expect, ride-wise. Full supple? Pogo? Not a single clue. All I knew is that I wanted to try one.
First rides I felt only one difference: more stable downhill. Uphill I could stand, stomp, push, weave, jump,... nothing. I would not have known I was on something else than my Legend.
Longer rides, I was less beat up, esp. the morning after epic 6 hour rides.
The clicher was the cobblestone covered St Gothard, where the bike shone like God through the clouds, with a benevolent smile. It was perfection.

So, specifics of the very frame you will buy put aside, the frame will not (can not?) disappoint. You will at worst not ride in bad enough roads, or not long enough rides to feel the difference, at best feel a real confort enhancement, but more likely feel less beat up after longer rides.

Of course, YMMV.

[weiwentg]

Yes Sandy, I know; and it doesn't affect my recommendation.

Due diligence, whether buying a business, house, car, or to a lesser degree a bike, is about obtaining information from various sources with little or no vested interest in the subject matter.

Requested information from this forum will be limited because David Kirk is held in such high esteem that no one would ever say anything negative about a DKS even if it was true. It would be like telling the Vatican that Jesus was fallible – it’s just not done. For that reason I recommended to reach beyond this forum for additional information.

When looking to buy a DKS I spoke in person with Serotta dealers who were in a position to discuss all aspects of the bike, not just the rosy side. I would do the same with any high-cost product I was researching to buy, particularly if it was discontinued. In my experience there are always two sides to every issue or product review; and relying on those with a vested interest as the only source of information is not a good idea.

I’m not questioning David’s integrity or technical feedback, just saying that when buying a house from a friend you should still do a title search. It’s just good business.

Dear Vatican,

Jesus was fallible.

Sincerely,
Weiwen

[rwsaunders]

So did you buy the bike yet?

[dirtdigger88]

d@mn I love that bike

Jason

[barry1021]

My experience:
I bought my Hors sight unseen with the help of a very reputable forum member. The frame was in NY, I was in Switzerland. No surprises.
I did not know what to expect, ride-wise. Full supple? Pogo? Not a single clue. All I knew is that I wanted to try one.
First rides I felt only one difference: more stable downhill. Uphill I could stand, stomp, push, weave, jump,... nothing. I would not have known I was on something else than my Legend.
Longer rides, I was less beat up, esp. the morning after epic 6 hour rides.
The clicher was the cobblestone covered St Gothard, where the bike shone like God through the clouds, with a benevolent smile. It was perfection.

So, specifics of the very frame you will buy put aside, the frame will not (can not?) disappoint. You will at worst not ride in bad enough roads, or not long enough rides to feel the difference, at best feel a real confort enhancement, but more likely feel less beat up after longer rides.

Of course, YMMV.

cool pic....no pun intended

b21

[barry1021]

DKS = Dave Kirk sweetie

:)

cake left?? :beer:

b21

[Gothard]

Dirt,
Damn, I love *that* bike. :beer:

[SoCalSteve]

I have one and I love it!

I too trust Dave Kirk as he built 2 of my most favorite bikes...My Hors Cat and my Kirk Terraplane.

Just buy it and dont look back.

Steve

[Tobias]

No where in his post did the original poster inquire about opinions of the bike.
..............
Remember that no opinions on the ride of the bike were asked.Sandy, are you saying I must limit the scope of my reply? Not that I answered these questions in the first place.

[David Kirk]

I honestly don't understand what this is all about.

It's got that "who's on first?" feeling.



Dave

[Sandy]

Sandy, are you saying I must limit the scope of my reply? Not that I answered these questions in the first place.

I am not saying that you or anyone else should limit the scope of a reply. All I am saying is that there were two questions asked about the DKS system and the person who develped such, and undoubtedly knows more about it than anyone else, was kind enough to answer both questions. That would be sufficient to me, as he is the best possible source and I respect his judgement. To seek other sources is fine if anyone wants to do such , and to expand on the scope of the reply is also fine. I have no problem with either.

What Dave said would be enough for me. That is all I was saying.

I will refrain from saying anything else about the matter as perhaps Dave may be uncomfortable with the direction of the thread.


Sandy

[H.Frank Beshear]

I honestly don't understand what this is all about.

It's got that "who's on first?" feeling.



Dave

What? :p

[SoCalSteve]

What? :p

Who? :banana:

Just playin'

Steve

[Javaman]

So did you buy the bike yet?

Not yet...the guy is already having second thoughts about selling it. He really loves that bike.

Appreciate the info guys! :beer: Especially to Dave.
Did not mean to create a stir btw...

The hunt continues I guess,
Peace yo!
J