carbon frames

[sawegtx]

Any good review articles on carbon frames for 08?

[saab2000]

Most of them are fugly. Most of them are made in China. Those two facts are not necessarily related. But they are both true.

Not much more to say about that.

[saab2000]

By the way, this (http://www.serotta.com/2008/hsg_c_lg.html) one's not made in China and it's not fugly.

I want one.

[Sandy]

By the way, this (http://www.serotta.com/2008/hsg_c_lg.html) one's not made in China and it's not fugly.

I want one.

Have to agreee with you on both points. Actually I think that it is quite appealing. I am sure that it rides great too!


Made in the USA and not too too too ugly,


Simple Sandy

[Blue Jays]

They're out there! Aegis, Calfee Design, Independent Fabrication, Landshark, Parlee, and Seven are among the American builders using carbon fiber. There are others that I've obviously missed.

[samtaylor1]

Tons of reviews for the new madone and I THINK it looks good.

[SoCalSteve]

They're out there! Aegis, Calfee Design, Independent Fabrication, Landshark, Parlee, and Seven are among the American builders using carbon fiber. There are others that I've obviously missed.

Is this new for IF?

Just askin'

Steve

[mschol17]

The new Lemond 2008 Triomphe Ultra has gotten good reviews by Pez Cycling News.

[swoop]

this review:

just like the one the pros use, stiff in the drivetrain yet amazingly compliant, designed in house with feedback from the pros, oversized bb, concept tubing, proprietary downtube, 5 sizes, under 1000 grams, beautiful carbon weave, and proproetary seat clamp.

oh i forgot,
descends on rails, climbs effortlessly.

just plug in any brand.

[SWorks4me]

Only two of the team's bikes were not stolen: Andrea Tonti's spare bike that was in the boot of his own car and Paolo Bettini's brand new Specialized bike. "I decided to take my Specialized bike to my room last night," Bettini said, "as I wanted to get a better look at it as it is so beautiful."

[mosca]

Tons of reviews for the new madone and I THINK it looks good.I have to agree here - I think Trek did a nice job on that one. I'll never make it as a bike snob I guess...

[oldguy00]

Whats wrong with a bike being made in China?

[fiamme red]

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsnyc-2008-dream-bike-shootout.html

Sample:

"Now, I didn’t ride the Colnago Extreme Power, but I looked at the Colnago website, which was full of poorly-translated English and a lot of Flash animation. I also rode lots of crappy bikes that were not the Colnago Extreme Power and possessed none of the attributes of the Colnago. Even the name of the bicycle itself told me most of what I needed to know, which is that if you either have or want to produce Extreme Power then this is the bike to ride. So I can say with complete assurance that the carbon fiber construction and layup yielded a frame that was laterally stiff yet vertically compliant. I can also say that this bike climbs like a monkey in a set of crampons, descends like a monkey in a set of crampons being dropped from a helicopter, handles corners like a prostitute, and accelerates like a particle in a particle accelerator that itself is just a tiny particle in a giant particle accelerator. Overall, the effect is like sitting in a caffe in a trendy Milan street while sipping a cappuccino and wearing fabulous clothes yet inexplicably traveling at or close to the speed of light. Pure Italian class."

[Fixed]

By the way, this (http://www.serotta.com/2008/hsg_c_lg.html) one's not made in China and it's not fugly.

I want one.
bro that is a dream machine imho
cheers

[Grant McLean]

Tons of reviews for the new madone

I thought the new Madone was totally, brutally harsh,
and I don't mean in a Bill&Ted way, dude. atmo.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/billandted460.jpg

-g

[saab2000]

Whats wrong with a bike being made in China?

I like my things to be produced by people who might directly impact my economy. The Chinese workers paid pennies for my dollars are not likely to buy a ticket on my airline. Or any US airline for that matter.

Until they play on a level playing field I try to avoid buying stuff made there.

Nothing personal, just business.

My bikes are made by people whose participation in the economy is a two-way street. The Chinese economy is not yet fully a two way street.

But this is about carbon frames, not about China. We've been over that before.

[merckx]

Good stuff, SAAB.

[DarrenCT]

of my last 10 bikes, 9 of them have been made in da usa.

get a serotta carbon or a parlee of calfee

[vaxn8r]

I saw one of these today. It didn't look bad at all if you can get over the name "Giant" on the DT. What struck me is it has the same 3DXL dropouts as on my Serotta, except carbon. Anyway, I thought it was a nice design.

BTW, is George riding one of these next year?

[SWorks4me]

I like my things to be produced by people who might directly impact my economy.


Nothing personal, just business.

My bikes are made by people whose participation in the economy is a two-way street.
But this is about carbon frames, not about China. We've been over that before.



So says...Saab. Is that "Amuricun" for car?

[cs124]

So says...Saab. Is that "Amuricun" for car?

Yep. It's "Americurn" for "Foreign sounding but owned by GM, assembled in Sweden using technology developed in the US and UK, with suspension castings from Germany and engines built in Australia."

Saab does participate in the US economy, if only to contribute to the General Motors pension fund.

[saab2000]

Yep. It's "Americurn" for "Foreign sounding but owned by GM, assembled in Sweden using technology developed in the US and UK, with suspension castings from Germany and engines built in Australia."

Saab does participate in the US economy, if only to contribute to the General Motors pension fund.

I don't drive a SAAB. I used to fly one.

But I do drive a German car. Germans participate in the US economy.

Anyway, I am not naïve and it is not some personal anti-China crusade I am on. But I try to buy US or European things when I can. When I can't or it doesn't make sense I don't lose sleep over it.

That Giant does look nice BTW. Too bad about the sloping TT! :beer:

[vaxn8r]

I couldn't get a close up of the rear drop outs. Trust me they are very trick looking. As for the compact frame...I'm with you Saab.

[cadence90]

I don't drive a SAAB. I used to fly one.
Hey saab, pretty OT, but....

...I had to take my car (Volvo) in to replace the PCV unit, etc. and one of the new mechanics there is an mtber (we got to talking bikes because I bought mine to ride back) and a stunt flyer. It turns out he is building a bi-plane upstairs above the shop: amazing stuff: mainly wood structure and that wing material (some kind of cloth) was incredible! It was very cool to see.

[kerrycycle]

By the way, this (http://www.serotta.com/2008/hsg_c_lg.html) one's not made in China and it's not fugly.

I want one.

Got one of the '07 HSG Carbons. Rides like a dream, very fast handling & responds as soon as you push on the pedals. I love this bike (not sure how to post the image)[/IMG].

[konstantkarma]

I saw one of these today. It didn't look bad at all if you can get over the name "Giant" on the DT. What struck me is it has the same 3DXL dropouts as on my Serotta, except carbon. Anyway, I thought it was a nice design.

Made in Taiwan? They participate in our economy. F16s, SAMs, McDonalds etc.

[Dave B]

I actually think Saab has a good point of view.

I guess my take on it is this. I am going to keep buying the best for me bike here in the US. The bike might be made else where, but the lbs employees people who directly affect my immediate economy.

I would rather see the guys who own and work at shops make money. There are so many places to get better deals then retail stores that we are going to see less and less shops stay open. Service has to be their bread and butter, because why pay $6K for a new giant when I can e-deal for $3K.

Anyway interesting thread as it developes.

[ClutchCargo]

Yep. It's "Americurn" for "Foreign sounding but owned by GM, assembled in Sweden using technology developed in the US and UK, with suspension castings from Germany and engines built in Australia."

Saab does participate in the US economy, if only to contribute to the General Motors pension fund.

It won't be long before GM is not contributing to its [employees'] pension fund. ;)

[saab2000]

My point is mostly that their currency and labor costs, in addition to other less-easy-to-track costs like environmental issues, etc., are not following market forces. They are state controlled. Yet the prices we pay are market value.

I applaud places like Trek and Cannondale which still try to make some stuff in the US, though I think Cannondale is moving production abroad. I wonder how much longer Trek can hold out now that they can no longer count on Lance to sell their bikes for top dollar.

That new Madone ain't cheap. To make or buy.

All that, plus the old "Think Globally, Act Locally" thing.

[chrisroph]

I've got 2 spectrums, one sachs, one vanilla, one HED tt bike, one merckxspeed majestic, some other non-american bikes, and a chinese R3, which is a nice riding bike. Can't I have just one?

[Climb01742]

i am not an economist, nor do i play one on tv or internet forums...

i believe china buys a lot of u.s. debt in the form of treasury instruments. that is not simply participating in the u.s. economy. it's propping it up. if china, and others, ever stop buying u.s. debt, say goodnight, irene.

[cs124]

ClutchCargo got it.

Climb gets it.

[swoop]

stevep gets it.. (shot at interbike)


http:www.collegehumor.com/video:1779729

[1centaur]

i believe china buys a lot of u.s. debt in the form of treasury instruments. that is not simply participating in the u.s. economy. it's propping it up. if china, and others, ever stop buying u.s. debt, say goodnight, irene.

An interesting thought experiment: if China and others stopped buying US debt, where would their dollars go?

Our debt will be bought as long as we have reasonable laws, a decent amount of capitalism, and a creative populace, since so much of the world will lack one or more of those characteristics and we will offer a good combination of safety and upside.

The issue really is what happens to the world economy as others buy less US debt, since any complete shut-off would be globally cataclysmic for lots of reasons. We are in the midst of a gradual spreading around of central bank and private investment that will favor Europe and others over time more than they have been, with the dollar weaker because of it. Ultimately, a creative, free, strong, rule-abiding society with a relatively weak currency will attract investment in various forms, helping the currency. These cycles are normal and should be acceptable to us unless government intrudes to create artificial roadblocks - such as a trade war that forces others not to want to or be able to do business with us.

[Frank Draper]

After riding it for 7 days I returned it to my LBS today. Fast! Smooth! Light (15.1lbs.) I have only had Campy Record for many years. Sram smokes! Can't wait to try the Sram Red. And the Aeolus wheels are incredible. Thinking very seriously about ordering one. I've tried many bikes during the past few weeks and I keep comparing all of them to the Lemond. Yes, I have a Serotta. Legend Ti Custom with all Campy Record and Mavic Kysrium ES wheels,and it is great. No, I won't sell it. The Lemond is just a completely different ride. The more I rode it, the more I enjoyed it. The more I rode it, the longer my rides. It's an all day machine. My first ride on the Lemond I thought, ummm, well I like how it feels, very responsive yet not squirrelly, not sure about the Sram, wheels a little stiff. The next ride, hmmm, man this thing is fast, handles great, the Sram has a much lighter feel than my Campy Record yet as soon as you tap the shifter it's on the next cog. And by my fourth ride I was impressed.

Just the experience of a long time serious recreational rider.

[J.Greene]

The issue really is what happens to the world economy as others buy less US debt, since any complete shut-off would be globally cataclysmic for lots of reasons. We are in the midst of a gradual spreading around of central bank and private investment that will favor Europe and others over time more than they have been, with the dollar weaker because of it. Ultimately, a creative, free, strong, rule-abiding society with a relatively weak currency will attract investment in various forms, helping the currency. These cycles are normal and should be acceptable to us unless government intrudes to create artificial roadblocks - such as a trade war that forces others not to want to or be able to do business with us.

Finally some wisdom on this forum about our participation in the Global economy. Thanks for speaking up. It's lonely out here.

JG

[jerk]

I like my things to be produced by people who might directly impact my economy. The Chinese workers paid pennies for my dollars are not likely to buy a ticket on my airline. Or any US airline for that matter.

Until they play on a level playing field I try to avoid buying stuff made there.

Nothing personal, just business.

My bikes are made by people whose participation in the economy is a two-way street. The Chinese economy is not yet fully a two way street.

But this is about carbon frames, not about China. We've been over that before.


bear in mind all those tubes in that meivici are made by mclean composites in china at least untill the new serotta facility is up and running. this in no way makes the meivici any less of an awesome flawless bicycle....it simply points to an intertwined global economy where to quote a sex pistol, no one is innocent.

jerk

[Fixed]

bro it bothers me the thought of kids working in factories for pennies ..but i think the chinese value education ..and are very smart and skilled
what they get paid is less than an american worker but it is better than what they did before factories ..
cheers