Chris King...Why?

[musgravecycles]

I saw somewhere that King introduced a 'cross' hubset at interbike this year...with improved flange dimensions.

Why didn't they just "update" the old hub? Who's gonna buy the older design when there's a better one available? This doesn't make much sense to me...Am I missing something?

[ergott]

What's wrong with their current design? I have King hubs in a couple of sets of wheels. No problems. They also have the widest rear flange spacing. Wider spacing will make a stiffer wheel if all else is equal. I think that the cross is the same internals with symmetrical flange size and wide spacing as well. They are not shipping yet and will only be available in 130mm right now.

[J.Greene]

good question. If a redesign makes a stronger wheel, why not carry over the design to the road hubs?

JG

[Fixed]

i tried a king wheelset once and i went home to get my ipod but that's alright they have the bling thing imho
cheers

[ergott]

good question. If a redesign makes a stronger wheel, why not carry over the design to the road hubs?

JG

I don't think that that won't be considered. It could be an option for tougher conditions. I see no reason why you couldn't use the cross hubs on the road anyway as they are both 130mm spacing. You could choose between them.

[musgravecycles]

I didn't say anything was wrong with the current design, I'm just wondering why King saw fit to introduce a new hubset with minor improvements, and what that will do to sales of the classic hubs, why not just "update" the classics?

In a couple months when they are available, why should I consider the classics when a newer version (that will build a 'slightly' stronger wheel) is available?

[musgravecycles]

Snipped:
You could choose between them.

Which is my sorta point, who's gonna choose the older design when a new better one is available...

[ergott]

i tried a king wheelset once and i went home to get my ipod but that's alright they have the bling thing imho
cheers

They have gotten very quiet now. The most recent set I have is very un-King like. I expected them to have the buzz, but it's not there. Some of that has to do with the lube used and the amount in there. You can quiet most hubs by playing with the weight and amount of lube. Just be careful that the engagement mechanism still functions and doesn't get bogged down. Hubs that don't engage suck.

[stevep]

Why didn't they just "update" the old hub? Who's gonna buy the older design when there's a better one available? This doesn't make much sense to me...Am I missing something?

simple answer.
cause they are idiots.

[J.Greene]

Which is my sorta point, who's gonna choose the older design when a new better one is available...

Not to mention they have a poor track record of actually meeting demand with new products. I have 4 wheelsets with King wheels. I like them even though I sound like a swarm of angry bees.

JG

[ergott]

Which is my sorta point, who's gonna choose the older design when a new better one is available...


I think that the cross set will be overkill for most road conditions.

[musgravecycles]

I think that the cross set will be overkill for most road conditions.


?

Are you saying that the wheel will be too strong for road conditions?

[Fixed]

bro they are pricey i mean over 100 for a headset and i bet they don't sell to dealers at 50 either
they have the market cornered imho
cheers

[dutri42590]

good question. If a redesign makes a stronger wheel, why not carry over the design to the road hubs?

JG
you can not afford them. why do you care
JPR

[Clydesdale]

when you stop pedaling.

[ergott]

?

Are you saying that the wheel will be too strong for road conditions?


Phil Wood does the same thing. They have a road option and a touring option that is even more robust. I haven't heard anyone have durability issues with the hubs as they are now. They just want to expand their market. If people opt for the cross set every time they want a "road" set, fine. Based on what I know of the two hubs, I'd still use the current road set for another pair if it were me. I will call them and ask if there are any other changes other than the flanges.

[J.Greene]

you can not afford them. why do you care
JPR

Don't ask me to buy you dinner again Junior.

JG

[Too Tall]

P.W. was reacting to yrs. of demands for a lighter hub as far as I know.
Eric, they have been playing with their space age silicon lube for a while...did that change? What exactly did change with the Cross version?

[Fixed]

bro i lusting over a phil wood fixed gear hub but I have a surly buget
cheers

[ergott]

P.W. was reacting to yrs. of demands for a lighter hub as far as I know.
Eric, they have been playing with their space age silicon lube for a while...did that change? What exactly did change with the Cross version?

Other than the flange geo, I have to call and ask. Last time I called them they did not mention anything else. As far as I know, it is a more robust hub shell design. They don't have immediate plans to change the current road and mtn. hubs. Who knows if that will change once production is running for a while and they have a chance to evaluate things.

[dutri42590]

Don't ask me to buy you dinner again Junior.

JG
just kidding
JPR

[ecl2k]

I had some wheels with King hubs a few years ago for my mountain bike and at the time they were the hottest best-reviewed product out there. I was really excited to get them and was sure that the performance of my bike was going to improve, but they actually felt slow like there was a lot of drag in the hub that needed to be broken in. I sold them and bought some wheels with XTR hubs and everything felt back to normal. I think this was significant and not in my head because I laid out a lot of money for the King wheels and am really susceptible to the placebo effect. I just googled chris king hubs and drag and it looks like others have had a similar experience. Except as a fashion statement, I just don't get king stuff, including the headsets.

[Fixed]

I had some wheels with King hubs a few years ago for my mountain bike and at the time they were the hottest best-reviewed product out there. I was really excited to get them and was sure that the performance of my bike was going to improve, but they actually felt slow like there was a lot of drag in the hub that needed to be broken in. I sold them and bought some wheels with XTR hubs and everything felt back to normal. I think this was significant and not in my head because I laid out a lot of money for the King wheels and am really susceptible to the placebo effect. I just googled chris king hubs and drag and it looks like others have had a similar experience. Except as a fashion statement, I just don't get king stuff, including the headsets.
a lot of cats say that .cheers well i like the headsets

[Ligero]

What I don't understand is that the new cross hub is suppose to be a stronger version of the classic to hold up to the abuse of cross racing. Well if the classic is also used as the mtb non disc hub does that mean that either cross racing is tougher on hubs then mtb riding? If mtb riding is tougher on hubs then cross racing how did the classic hold up for so long if it wasn't up to the task?

I think they are making a cross specific hub to sell more hubs and to make there 10+ year old design seem updated. King is in Portland which is one of the most cross crazy cities in the country so to me it makes sense for your updated hub design to a "cross" specific hub. There are also many people that will buy the cross hub because they are building a cross bike and so they obviously need the "cross" specific hub.

King hubs don't really need any changes but in todays market if you are not coming out with "better" people start to forget about you.

[willy in pacifi]

I have CK hubs on almost all of my bikes including the tandem. I love the buzz. Funny thing is they all sound a bit different.

3 sets of Black
1 set of silver
1 set of pewter
1 set of blue
1 set of disc mango

I would say blue is the fastest by far

willy in pacifica

[J.Greene]

That is the cost of a well sealed hub. The good news is that with some miles that extra drag is gone. So the bearings are overkill for the hour record but work great for the real world atmo.

JG

I had some wheels with King hubs a few years ago for my mountain bike and at the time they were the hottest best-reviewed product out there. I was really excited to get them and was sure that the performance of my bike was going to improve, but they actually felt slow like there was a lot of drag in the hub that needed to be broken in. I sold them and bought some wheels with XTR hubs and everything felt back to normal. I think this was significant and not in my head because I laid out a lot of money for the King wheels and am really susceptible to the placebo effect. I just googled chris king hubs and drag and it looks like others have had a similar experience. Except as a fashion statement, I just don't get king stuff, including the headsets.

[zap]

I saw that too and asked why.

If CK classic hubs can hold up too 7 years (and counting) of hard tandem use, then I see no reason why they shouldn't last a real long time on singles.

[musgravecycles]

I think Ligero pretty much nailed it...


Taking this thread one step further, what do most of you cat's consider the best CX hub? (I'm kinda partial to the simple-smooth-unkillable-reliability of Dura Ace 9 myself, and looking forward to the 7850's)...

[saab2000]

I hate the "Chain Saw Chorus Line" sound of King hubs. If that is tamed I would consider them.

But they need to be Campagnolo compatable first. And not with some conversion kit. They must be able to take Campagnolo cassettes.

And they do not AFAIK. :crap:

[saab2000]

I hate the "Chain Saw Chorus Line" sound of King hubs. If that is tamed I would consider them.

But they need to be Campagnolo compatable first. And not with some conversion kit. They must be able to take Campagnolo cassettes.

And they do not AFAIK. :crap:

[Ligero]

But they need to be Campagnolo compatable first. And not with some conversion kit. They must be able to take Campagnolo cassettes.

And they do not AFAIK. :crap:

It is not possible to have a Campy freehub body with the axle and bearing system. The campy body has a smaller internal diameter then a shimano body and the King 19mm axle with needle bearings will not fit thru a Campy body. So in order for there to be a Campy King hub they would have to redesign the axle and bearings which they have said (at least to me) they have no desire to do.

[willy in pacifi]

It is not possible to have a Campy freehub body with the axle and bearing system. The campy body has a smaller internal diameter then a shimano body and the King 19mm axle with needle bearings will not fit thru a Campy body. So in order for there to be a Campy King hub they would have to redesign the axle and bearings which they have said (at least to me) they have no desire to do.

There is however a gizmo that you attach just before your rear der that changes the campy shifter cable pull to Shimano cable pull. This allows you to use your Campy shifters with Shimano/Sram spaced cassettes. I have it on my bike and it works perfectly. Many tandems use them since there are no 145/160 Campy hubs and they prefer Campy shifters.

willy in pacifica

[J.Greene]

That would be the jtek shiftmate. I have one on my tt bike and it blows the conversion cassettes away.

JG

There is however a gizmo that you attach just before your rear der that changes the campy shifter cable pull to Shimano cable pull. This allows you to use your Campy shifters with Shimano/Sram spaced cassettes. I have it on my bike and it works perfectly. Many tandems use them since there are no 145/160 Campy hubs and they prefer Campy shifters.

willy in pacifica

[willy in pacifi]

That would be the jtek shiftmate. I have one on my tt bike and it blows the conversion cassettes away.

JG

And the cool thing is that I can use the Campy 10 speed shifters to run my 9 speed shimano cassette. If I want to go with the 10 speed Shimano all I have to do is buy the proper little pully inside the shiftmate and change it out.

willy in pacifica

[DfCas]

Could the "cross" hub be heavier than the "road version? That may be a reason for some to decide on one over the other..??

[thejen12]

I had some wheels with King hubs a few years ago for my mountain bike and at the time they were the hottest best-reviewed product out there. I was really excited to get them and was sure that the performance of my bike was going to improve, but they actually felt slow like there was a lot of drag in the hub that needed to be broken in.

I'm having the same experience with my road King hubs. Finally, after 1200+ miles of "breaking in" I pressured my shop to examine them (every time I'd mentioned it before, they just said "They need to be broken in!"). I had ridden my old Shimano-hubbed wheels for a week and my average speed was definitely higher (I commute, so ride the same route regularly). They opened them up and the front was fine, but the rear was full of dirt and had no grease in it! :eek: They had special ordered those hubs for me, so that was how it came from the factory. They cleaned it out and greased it up and said it's now good as new. It does feel a little better but I haven't had time to compare it to my old Shimano hubs since then.

They look great on my bike, but I probably wouldn't order another set for any future projects. By the way, they're only about half as noisy as my friend's Velomax Ascent II wheels, and the noise they do make is much nicer than hers.

Jenn