I have a theory... [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

93legendti

10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

Guys can't think while wearing lycra. It sounds silly, but I think it has to do with blood flow to the brain...

I've been showing up on all sorts of group rides to drum up some interest in my new coaching gig. My goal is to show that it's the rider, not the bike, and there really are different skill levels out there. So I show up on my fixed gear with tractor tires - these rides all start way too early, do these people have jobs or something? Anyway, I'm not there to rip anyone's legs off, my job is to set an example of what riding well is. My pedal stroke was working well, good position on the bike, if a gap opened I filled in, no signs of struggle on the hills. In short I made that ride look effortless. The two women on the ride noticed that and were interested in my coaching program. The guys got pissed off and were trying to drop me in the dumbest ways. One guy got on the front and spent the next 10 minutes trying to ride me off his wheel. It must be the lycra...

No kidding. I was on a Dolomites biking trip and some idiots crossed in front of Italy's high speed train. It caused a MAJOR incident and the Italian Police tracked down the riders. As the ride organizer was trying to keep them out of jail (the high speed train does not slow down for anything/anyone), one of the sharper ones in that group said to the Police: "What's the big deal? We do that all the time at home". Natural selection, no doubt.

bzbvh5

10-09-2007, 08:42 AM

What I like are the people who will run a red light because the front of the pack had the green light. I think it's funny how even on the Saturday group ride, people are trying to win the TDF.

Fixed

10-09-2007, 08:49 AM

What I like are the people who will run a red light because the front of the pack had the green light. I think it's funny how even on the Saturday group ride, people are trying to win the TDF.
bro get a couple of cat 4's together with some in my mind racers and you have a race of the egos cheers

zank

10-09-2007, 08:57 AM

What do you call a ride where more than one cat 4 shows up?

A race. :crap: :butt:

It's why I have never gone on a certain bike shop ride in my area. Everyone beats the heck out of each other on Wednesday nights and nobody gets better. But at least one of them can say "I won the Wednedsay group ride".

barry1021

10-09-2007, 09:04 AM

testosterone. Personally I direct it all to my wife ;)

b21

Fixed

10-09-2007, 09:07 AM

bro is it me but do women look a lot better In bike clothes than men ? cheers imho

William

10-09-2007, 09:17 AM

one of the sharper ones in that group said to the Police: "What's the big deal? We do that all the time at home". Natural selection, no doubt.

BINGO!!!!

jeffg

10-09-2007, 09:19 AM

bro is it me but do women look a lot better In bike clothes than men ? cheers imho

Dude, women look better in just about anything or nothing at all ...

Oh, and I also direct all my testosterone towards my bride

Tobias

10-09-2007, 09:36 AM

So I show up on my fixed gear with tractor tires
Sounds like a challenge before the ride even starts.

If they had more God-given talent and were successful in dropping you, would you have a different opinion of their brains?

Too Tall

10-09-2007, 09:37 AM

Charming cats off the porch again? ;) No kidding, competition in all of us is generally a good thing. For the folks who have had the pleasure of structured group training the alternative can be pretty disturbing. I ride with a shop now and than who really appreciates a few strong suggestions to clean up some of the riding styles. Good people. There is no way to make your points other than set an example just as you said. Yesterday I did "make a point" by asking the tinest woman in the bunch to get on my wheel for the final sprint...it is a loooong one...I sat in 5 wheels back than worked wheels to the front and launched her. We took it 1/2. She has a massive amt. of power but could not come around. During the cool down we talked about why...that's when learning and respect happens IMNSHO....everything is about people.

Kevan

10-09-2007, 09:38 AM

we've lost our hunting pack mentality. Least-wise as an organized one. Those lone wolves have to lose their game enough times that they grow hungery and learn to cooperate as a team.

Orrrrr...it could be too tight lycra as you first suggested.

Tom

10-09-2007, 09:46 AM

I rode a group ride this weekend where I couldn't hang with the front group and had to drop off and then plow into a ***** of a headwind for 2 1/2 hours by myself. Saratoga Lake was all whitecaps and the wind was coming completely unabated off it at one stretch. It was a 110 mile day so I had to stay under control... and from mile ten to mile eighty I saw nobody else from the ride except at the aid stations. At mile 85 I went past about half the front group, and if I hadn't taken a wrong turn and gone a couple extra miles I bet I would have finished before them.

The really strong guys were way the hell up the road.

My point is that if I had tried to compete, I never would have finished the ride at all and by staying patient I caught and passed guys that didn't.

What does that have to do with anything? Hell, I don't know. I'm waiting for the apple pie to finish baking before I go for a ride.

regularguy412

10-09-2007, 09:56 AM

I don't show up on a fixie with tractor tires, but I do bring my little, blue TG shod with 2006 K-Elite clinchers and 7401 DA Look-style pedals. There's really no bling to it at all, compared to the Tarmacs , Allez's and OCLV Treks. However I, too, don't mind mixing it up, but I'm almost never the one to start the 'drop session'. Usually these things start when someone gets frisky climbing one of the rolling hills about midway through the ride. I've found it better to chase the breaks and sit on wheels, then attack the last couple of guys who've gone off the front. When everyone finally sits up and comes back to their senses, they ask me , "How do you do that? You're 20 years older than me!!". THAT'S when I take the opportunity to talk about position, spin, cadence and tactics.

Since I didn't pick my parents well regarding VO2 Max, body composition , lactate threshold, etc., I've had to work my a$$ off in training and make improvements by maximizing as many of the variables as possible. I'm surely no great athlete; I've had my ubtt kicked _MANY_ times -- so there's no ego here and I'm not trying to beat my own drum. I just try to let my riding show people that if I can do it, _ANYONE_ can do it. You just have to set your mind to it and figure out what works best for YOU. Then-- go ride the miles.

Mike in AR

Ti Designs

10-09-2007, 09:58 AM

Fixed

10-09-2007, 10:01 AM

bro the cat's did n't yell for you to pull through ?
cheers

Tobias

10-09-2007, 10:36 AM

In coaching the Harvard kids I've come to the conclusion that coaching women is based on trust, coaching men is based on respect.Agree. Not to sound sexist; I believe evolution programmed us differently due to different needs. Trust is one of those.

I still blame the lycra. It makes women look good, makes men stupid...
Some scientists claim the dumbest people on earth are men. The very brightest too. Women are equal, but in the middle. Maybe you need to reach the other half of men. Although it's likely the smart half won't listen anyway ATMO.

David Kirk

10-09-2007, 11:03 AM

Hey Ti-man,

What were you wearing at the time? Maybe it's not what their clothing does to them but what YOUR clothing does to them.

Dave

davids

10-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Hey Ti-man,

What were you wearing at the time? Maybe it's not what their clothing does to them but what YOUR clothing does to them.

Dave
I've seen him in his "street" clothes. Trust me, he looks better in lycra.

David Kirk

10-09-2007, 11:30 AM

I've seen him in his "street" clothes. Trust me, he looks better in lycra.

If that's true someone needs to take that boy shopping.

Dave

Climb01742

10-09-2007, 11:30 AM

ed, it's hard for men to ask for help. especially (and paradoxically) from someone who is better than they are at the task requiring help. even more so if that someone is a man. men hate showing weakness in front of other men.

whereas showing weakness in front of a woman is a good way to get...

Ti Designs

10-09-2007, 12:08 PM

David Kirk

10-09-2007, 12:22 PM

Would you take advice from a cow on a fixed gear?

Who the hell wouldn't?

Dave

markie

10-09-2007, 12:49 PM

David Kirk

10-09-2007, 01:21 PM

Yeah, I never get a real warm reception when I turn up to group rides on the fixie. I guess those guys think because my bike does not have any gears and isn't made of plastic that I won't be able to keep up. In reality it is pretty rare for me to get dropped.

I rode fixed gear for year after my only road bike was stolen. I did road rides and a few races on it and never got the warm and fuzzies from the geared crowd. I was told straight up once that they felt they were being mocked or made fun of because I didn't need all the stuff.

Food for thought.

Dave

Fixed

10-09-2007, 01:36 PM

i know that vib bro they want you to be debt like them
cheers

MarleyMon

10-09-2007, 02:09 PM

Guys can't think while wearing lycra. It sounds silly, but I think it has to do with blood flow to the brain...

Are they wearing lycra headgear?
or are you saying their brains are in their...
lycra covered areas? :rolleyes:

barry1021

10-09-2007, 02:37 PM

I rode fixed gear for year after my only road bike was stolen. I did road rides and a few races on it and never got the warm and fuzzies from the geared crowd. I was told straight up once that they felt they were being mocked or made fun of because I didn't need all the stuff.

Food for thought.

Dave

pathetic. Talk about having self esteem issues. I would have said "well it's not always about YOU, is it?"

b21

swoop

10-09-2007, 02:48 PM

i find that all group rides have a unique personality and history and its always nice to sit on, close gaps for folks and work on relating to the people before you try and tear the legs off of them in october. i don't think its hard to humiliate most folks with a turn of speed.. its actually harder to just sit in and do some time and build some relationships. i look at it as earning the priveledge of sitting on the front and i see that as a place afforded to you out of respect that's earned over time. i guess in that sense it's a lot like surfing a spot when you're not a local.

that doesn't mean not to take the sprint... it does mean giving the love you want to get. out here.. there are turns at tempo but the hard riding is done for a while.. its really just about keeping it smooth and a nice hard (say 28 instead of 32)... and if guys want to jump.. well... go ahead.. but i do think you need to show respect to the guys that do the time on the ride, even if you can eat them for breakfast.

easy for me to say from way over here...

also.. on anything but a recovery ride.. you wouldn't be welcome in most groups on a fixie for being a hazard.. unless you just sit on back and do your thing... which comes across as being conscious of tjhe folks around you who aren't on a fixie and might have a different rythym.
atmo.

fiamme red

10-09-2007, 03:10 PM

its really just about keeping it smooth and a nice hard (say 28 instead of 32)... :eek:

Ti Designs

10-09-2007, 03:31 PM

Tobias

10-09-2007, 04:12 PM

So what I'm getting here is that people see the fixed gear as either and insult to what they are riding or a rolling hazard.
IMO some would see it as a little showy or as boasting. Wouldn't bother me at all, but others in my club would certainly try to drop you because of it. Aren't you really challenging them?

Be honest. Aren't you saying to them that you are so good that you can keep up with them on a fixed? :beer:

Fixed

10-09-2007, 04:20 PM

bro when your on a group ride and your on a fixed...

it more like i gotta work harder than you ...and i got no top end you can't sprint faster than a geard bike so your leggs are goin 120 and your speed is 24 ...i could do a group ride and half the cats wouldn't even notice i was on a fixed shhs half don't know what fixed is
cheers imho :beer:

jeffg

10-09-2007, 04:25 PM

IMO some would see it as a little showy or as boasting. Wouldn't bother me at all, but others in my club would certainly try to drop you because of it. Aren't you really challenging them?

Be honest. Aren't you saying to them that you are so good that you can keep up with them on a fixed? :beer:

Ti,

The message is you are really good, since you better be to go on group rides on a fixie ...

johnmdesigner

10-09-2007, 04:27 PM

IMO some would see it as a little showy or as boasting. Wouldn't bother me at all, but others in my club would certainly try to drop you because of it. Aren't you really challenging them?

Be honest. Aren't you saying to them that you are so good that you can keep up with them on a fixed? :beer:

If you are really trying to drum up new business with new people you should consider the image you are projecting. Be more low key and people will feel less intimidation and will come to you for your excellent advice.

Fixed

10-09-2007, 04:36 PM

Ti,

The message is you are really good, since you better be to go on group rides on a fixie ...
bro the cat has to be bad he's been around bikes his whole life ,he didn't just jump on a bike 5 years ago
cheers

swoop

10-09-2007, 04:38 PM

So what I'm getting here is that people see the fixed gear as either and insult to what they are riding or a rolling hazard. I see my fixed gear as what I ride all winter. Guess I'll have to take out the geared bike if I'm gonna keep on doing this.

no.. that's not my angle... i don't mean it as an attack.. its that it depends on the geography and nature of the ride itself. that a fixie behaves differently that a geared bike. and so shoulder to shoulder at speed.. where there are changes in elevation and tempo as well as corners.. that having one bike that is goverened by different laws of nature than the other 60-100 folks.. it can be unwelcome... unless you sit on back.

i don't know the ride youre on.. certainly on the long flat parts you'd not be a distraction.. but you would be making different decisions than the folks around you... and where there is a variety of skill levels bumping into eachother.. it might be seen as a hazard.
the rides out here all have lights, changes in elevation and different kinds of corners.. the sprints top out in the mid 40's and pace leading into them is well in the mid 30's and sustained (yikes).... and there are everything from cat 3 women just pinned and spun out to d-3 guys that make a living to shrinks like me. and so its really about keeping a norm to make everyone behave predictably...

isn't there a logic that you can see in that? it makes sense to me...

Fixed

10-09-2007, 04:45 PM

, .. bro i think ti's showin up at some rides where they are less experienced riders ... to get his coaching thing going

benb

10-09-2007, 04:54 PM

Going on a group ride with weaker riders on your fixie and trying to prove your manliness is probably a horrible way to do marketing for a coaching business?

Did they know you're a coach?

If they aren't already on a racing team they might be lost causes.

The one time I used a coach I didn't find them when they showed up on a group ride... I got a recommendation for a coach from the team and visited the company website, etc..

Make a flashy website advertising your crazy race wins and coaching knowledge and then sponsor one of the local teams or something.

93legendti

10-09-2007, 04:59 PM

So what I'm getting here is that people see the fixed gear as either and insult to what they are riding or a rolling hazard. I see my fixed gear as what I ride all winter. Guess I'll have to take out the geared bike if I'm gonna keep on doing this.

The people on our group rides that ride fixie or ss impress me. I ride ss, but alone on the trails. The best way to advertise is have a bunch of jerseys made up with your name, number and serviis offered plastered on your back and sleeves. Be your own sponsor.

Ti Designs

10-09-2007, 06:28 PM

Len J

10-09-2007, 06:35 PM

Trust me, I look better in the dark...

I was wearing a Harvard jersey - I have team jerseys from every year since 1991. You're thinking the jersey was intimidating or maybe they went to Princeton??? I guess I have to come up with a jersey for my coaching gig that's not intimidating. I'm thinking cow (belted galaway to be more specific - the black cows with the white band around the middle) with the business name and a few sponsors. Would you take advice from a cow on a fixed gear?

You can use this as a model.

Len

DarrenCT

10-09-2007, 08:04 PM

Ti,

Are you the head coach for Harvard's cycling team?

toaster

10-09-2007, 08:17 PM

I still blame the lycra. It makes women look good, makes men stupid...

I guess then baggies make the men insecure and immature, when you see the lycra vs. baggies debate come up on some discussion boards.

Ti Designs

10-10-2007, 05:31 AM

benb

10-10-2007, 09:22 AM

I think I've probably met you on those rides actually.. depending on how long you've been working with the harvard team.. early in the season, I may have actually gone on my fixie too a few years ago...

I didn't mean to imply make a BS website.. but I just don't think showing up to some of these rides is terribly useful, unless you give a giant speech before the ride most people just aren't going to know what you're doing. Most People don't go on a ride to find a coach, they go look on the web or cycling magazines, etc..

Those harvard rides that come by Wheelworks, etc.. always seemed to turn into races.

Some of these rides people just want to turn into races anyway.. maybe it's more fun for them that way.

The local shop ride where I live now seems to be that way as well.. 99% of the people on the ride are never going to race, I don't think they actually think it would be more fun to ride a disciplined & smooth paceline.. they'd rather have the chaotic ride and try to drop each other.

The other thing you have to get through is unless someone is super serious most of us think coaching is a waste of money as we won't necessarily have time to put the coaches advice to work.

Samster

10-10-2007, 09:27 AM

(.)

Fixed

10-10-2007, 09:38 AM

Ti Designs

10-10-2007, 12:03 PM

rpm

10-10-2007, 12:28 PM

My son was on the Harvard team. He hadn't ridden that much before. He had a blast, became a good rider, and now rides all the time. Good coaching, IMHO.

swoop

10-10-2007, 12:42 PM

imagine you work at a big company like xerox. and every monday morning your office has a meeting. everyone is there crammed around the table in
their suits and ties and there is a format . the meetings are led but have structure and have a function and a specific goal. at the same time the strucrtue evolved to maximize everyone's time. the meetings change throughout the year.

one monday the meeting starts as usual and a new guy shows up and sits next to you. as you're talking he opens up his briefcase and puts on a clown nose, a red wig, pulls out a horn, and starts painting his face. he honks thoughout. he's a skilled clown.

a couple of the women tell him what a nice clown outfit he has.

after the meeting he wonders why why so many people gave him the stink eye because he's such a good clown and just wanted people so see how funny he is.

in this case.. you are that clown. group rides aren't about the individual.. they're about playing within the confines of the dynamic of the ride. every ride has its own dynamic. sometimes it just can't be about you.

i know this sounds hateful.. but i think sometimes its best to step back at something and look at it in a different way. go to the rides with the agenda of becoming part of the ride rather than using the ride to get something.

if you're a decent rider people will notice. but if you're being a clown people will notice that too.
i've certainly been that guy at times. we all prolly have been.

atmo.

MassBiker

10-10-2007, 12:45 PM

Not what I'm seeing. There are two types of riders out there, those who want to learn and those who know it all.

Pretty funny, you obviously are in the latter from your posts!

What about the guy who just doesn't want a coach and likes to just ride fast....which is relative.
If you show up on the rides as much of a know it all as you are here on the forum I would say you aren't going to have too many clients.

Don't mean to offend but you could use some humility!
:beer:

SadieKate

10-10-2007, 12:53 PM

When looking into starting a coaching business I checked out lots of coaches, looking for someone who would ride with their clients and work with them on skills. I found a few training camps that looked like some racers wanted to have someone else pay for their training. I found a few one day skills clinics. Mostly I found that nobody else does that. Given the results of my racers in the past I have to as why not?I have a non-racer friend who thinks she needs to be more fit to hang with the group she wants to ride with. I keep telling her she needs a coach who will go out on the road with her and teach her skills, better pedaling and efficiency on the bike, and look at her GD-crappy bike fit. She looks completely different on the road than she does on a trainer, turning into this struggling, choppy, bobbing mess. But, noooo, she thinks she just needs to be more fit - so she just keep piling on more stupid junk miles. For that, get a trainer. For speed, get a coach.

It isn't just racers who need coaching.

dauwhe

10-10-2007, 12:55 PM

Pretty funny, you obviously are in the latter from your posts!

What about the guy who just doesn't want a coach and likes to just ride fast....which is relative.
If you show up on the rides as much of a know it all as you are here on the forum I would say you aren't going to have too many clients.

Don't mean to offend but you could use some humility!
:beer:

I don't get that at all. I get the sense of someone who genuinely wants to help people. Ti Designs seems to be one of the most informed and generous contributors to this forum.

Dave

swoop

10-10-2007, 01:07 PM

i'm sure he's aces! group rides are good when you have the same goals as the group. group rides are bad when you have different goals than the group. i only do group rides when there is a wnderful overlap of goals.. the beauty is so many different groups have different goals.. so there's always one to pick out there.

if the goal is to get coaching business... it sort of conflicts with the intent of the group ride. there's just a fundamental flaw.

frankly.. there are times in group rides to kill it... usually that's during the season on group rides that are about killing it. it's just not that time of year..

the guys that i see that do well coaching have either raced for years and have a lot to show for it.. or the ones that just happen to be skilled people oriented folks... that don't need to assert themselves. you just can't rush developing a customer base by using a group ride for it. if your goal is to bring the best out in people.. well that might fit any number of rides.

go to the ride because it coincides with your training goals and just ride the ride. the rest will follow over time. organize some single speed rides over coffee afterwards.

atmo.

MassBiker

10-10-2007, 01:11 PM

I agree that ES knows his stuff and no doubt loves the sport but sometimes the presentation is a bit dodgy at times...which is always open to interpretation.
Consideri t constructive criticism!

:beer:

fiamme red

10-10-2007, 01:22 PM

in this case.. you are that clown. group rides aren't about the individual.. they're about playing within the confines of the dynamic of the ride. every ride has its own dynamic. sometimes it just can't be about you.At the next group ride Ti Designs will be on a unicycle, juggling bowling pins. :)