Sorry, another FENDER thread!

[thejen12]

Okay, folks, I was hoping to get fender answers in my previous thread, but that didn't happen. See, my husband is getting fenders, too, and I told him I'd share what I found in my previous thread to help him also find nice-fitting fenders for his stock, existing, commute bike. It's all set up for fenders, he just hasn't gotten any yet. He, also, rides 700c wheels and Michelin Pro 2 Race tires in size 25mm.

Do some fenders fit closer than others? If so, which are these? Any "heads up" on whether they are easy or difficult to install? Durability is important, too.

I've seen pics in the gallery and always thought the close-fitting fenders (especially the ones painted to match) were superb looking, way nicer than the regular run-of-the-mill fenders I seem to see on the casual commuters. (By the way, J. Greene, the carbon Berthoud fenders would look great on my new bike! I think they might be too narrow, though.)

Thanks for your comments on FENDERS! :)

Jenn

[dauwhe]

My Tournesol has Pro2Race 25 tires (really more like 27) and Berthoud 40mm stainless steel fenders. I think it looks great; there is a fair amount of clearance between the tire and the fender.

Berthouds are classy and very durable. Honjos are classy; I think almost as strong; I find them a bit easier to mount just because it's easier to drill through aluminum than steel. I've had some size issues with 700c Honjo fenders. The 43mm are a nice width, but on some bikes the fender doesn't quite match the curve of the wheel. I know some other folks have had the same experience.

I've never used 35mm Honjos, and so can't comment on them.

Dave

[Grant McLean]

Hi Jenn,

Virtually all models of fenders have adjustable length stays,
either at the fender like SKS, or at the frame mounting point
like the Honjo and other. You can mount them as close or as far
away from the tire as necessary for difference size tires.

Most fenders come in a few different widths too. Generally, the fender
will be about 1cm wider than the tire size. A 25mm tire fits inside a 35mm
fender nicely.

The wire fender stays slide into the eyelet, allowing you to modify the position,
and then you can trim the extra length once you're happy with the set up.
Plastic fenders are a little flexible, allowing some wiggle room for ideal positioning
on your frame.

Hopefully no toe overlap issues for him!

g

[palincss]

Plastic fenders like SKS are relatively easier to install than metal ones like Honjos or Berthouds. With the SKS, the fender already has all the mounting hardware on it; the actual installation consists of little more than removing the brake, hanging the fender hanger over the brake bolt and reinstalling, bolting the fender stays to the dropouts, and adjusting the length of the fender stays. Fine-tuning of the fender line generally means adding a spacer in back to fill up excess distance to the chainstay bridge.

Metal fenders are a lot harder. They also work a lot better and can be lighter. It helps a lot if the bike was made to take them (i.e., was supplied with bridges spaced equally, with threaded fittings on the bridges, etc.). Here are links to instructions on mounting metal fenders:

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2007/08/installing-vo-or-honjo-fenders.html
and
http://jitensha.com/eng/honjinstl.html

Working slowly and carefully, installing, measuring, removing, marking, drilling, reinstalling, etc., took me between 2 and 3 hours to install the Honjo fenders on my Kogswell P/R, and that bike is one of the easiest to install fenders on because the bridges and the fork are threaded and the bridges are perfectly placed.

The results are well worth the effort: fenders like this not only look wonderful, they also work astoundingly well. For one thing, they're a lot longer than the typical plastic fender, and consequently they provide much better coverage. Also, there's no hardware mounted inside the fender (as there is with plastic fenders) to act as a water dam and direct built up water out the sides.

[J.Greene]

Jenn,
I like the carbon fenders also. I think for a commuter though your better off with a fender than wraps the tire a little more. I have some Honjos that are nice that don't work well on more than a 25c tire. I like those and the Stainless Berthoud fenders I have.

I think it is awesome that your are putting effort into a commuter bike.

JG

[thejen12]

Hi Jenn,

Virtually all models of fenders have adjustable length stays,
so you can mount them as close or as far away from the tire
as necessary for difference size tires.

Most fenders come in a few different widths too. Generally, the fender
will be about 1cm wider than the tire size. A 25mm tire fits inside a 35mm
fender nicely.

The wire fender stays slide into the eyelet, allowing you to modify the position,
and then you can trim the extra length once you're happy with the set up.
Plastic fenders are a little flexible, allowing some wiggle room for ideal positioning
on your frame.

Hopefully no toe overlap issues for him!

g
Hi Grant,

Thanks for the fenders 101 class! I wasn't sure if they were all so adjustable. Now I have a much better idea, and I'll be sure to check the widths of the fenders.

Thanks! Jenn

[cpg]

The Berthoud carbon fenders look mod but aren't terribly effective. But given your location they might be adequate. The Berthoud stainless fenders like Dave pointed out work nice but due to their shape these fenders take up more room under the brake than Honjos. 35mm Honjos would be the bees knees if you're so inclined. They're a pain in the arse to install compared to plastic fenders but they're actually lighter and when installed correctly they don't rattle like plastic fenders. Metal fenders don't hold up well to being banged up which is a common occurance on commute bikes. Plastic fenders don't hold up well either but they're cheap and easy to install so sometimes that trade off is worth it.

Curt

[thejen12]

My Tournesol has Pro2Race 25 tires (really more like 27) and Berthoud 40mm stainless steel fenders. I think it looks great; there is a fair amount of clearance between the tire and the fender.

Berthouds are classy and very durable. Honjos are classy; I think almost as strong; I find them a bit easier to mount just because it's easier to drill through aluminum than steel. I've had some size issues with 700c Honjo fenders. The 43mm are a nice width, but on some bikes the fender doesn't quite match the curve of the wheel. I know some other folks have had the same experience.

I've never used 35mm Honjos, and so can't comment on them.

Dave
Thanks for the reviews, Dave. I've used some plastic fenders in the past (quickie mounting fenders, not "real" fenders) and their curve didn't match the curve of the wheel, making them much less effective. I'll try to watch out for that.

Jenn

[J.Greene]

.

[Steve Hampsten]

What Curt said: the 35mm smooth Honjo with a "skinny" 24 or 25mm tire is slicker than deer guts on a door knob - looks great on ti, fwiw.

[coylifut]

all good posts above. If you do indeed choose plastic over metal fenders, avoid the SKS and get the Planet Bike fenders. I've yet to crack a Planet Bike fender. I can't get the SKS fenders to last a season.

[thejen12]

The Berthoud carbon fenders look mod but aren't terribly effective. But given your location they might be adequate. The Berthoud stainless fenders like Dave pointed out work nice but due to their shape these fenders take up more room under the brake than Honjos. 35mm Honjos would be the bees knees if you're so inclined. They're a pain in the arse to install compared to plastic fenders but they're actually lighter and when installed correctly they don't rattle like plastic fenders. Metal fenders don't hold up well to being banged up which is a common occurance on commute bikes. Plastic fenders don't hold up well either but they're cheap and easy to install so sometimes that trade off is worth it.

Curt
Hi Curt,

Yes, I think I would prefer more effective fenders. I kinda like the Berthoud look better than the Honjos, but do think the 35mm Honjos would work with the 25mm Michelins, which many people compare to 27mm tires?

Not rattling is a good thing, too!

Thanks, Jenn

[Orin]

Hi Curt,

Yes, I think I would prefer more effective fenders. I kinda like the Berthoud look better than the Honjos, but do think the 35mm Honjos would work with the 25mm Michelins, which many people compare to 27mm tires?

Thanks, Jenn

I doubt it. The rolled edge is wide. A 25mm Michelin barely fits under a Planet Bike 35mm fender which also has a lip BTW, just not as thick as the Honjo's rolled edge.

My Rambouillet installation of 40mm Berthouds is here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=345786&postcount=11

Those tires are Grand Bois Cypres 700x30, more like a true 32mm.

Jenn, without knowing the clearances on your husband's bike, it's hard to say what will work. For example, I can get 43mm Honjos to fit my Rapid Tour, but a true 25mm tire is about as large as will fit under them! What kind of brakes? What brake reach if sidepull/double pivot? Type of fork (carbon/steel) has a big effect, though you don't have to run the front fender through the fork... there are tricks to allow you to mount a fender tab to the back of the brake nut.

Orin.

[thejen12]

Jenn, without knowing the clearances on your husband's bike, it's hard to say what will work. For example, I can get 43mm Honjos to fit my Rapid Tour, but a true 25mm tire is about as large as will fit under them! What kind of brakes? What brake reach if sidepull/double pivot? Type of fork (carbon/steel) has a big effect, though you don't have to run the front fender through the fork... there are tricks to allow you to mount a fender tab to the back of the brake nut.

Orin.
Hi Orin,

My husband as a Soma Smoothie ES with the IRD Mosaic 57carbon fork (with clearance for 32c tires and fenders), and Shimano long-reach brakes.

One set of fenders that interested him were the Soma Chromoplastice fenders on the Soma website, because they would match his bike (if he got the "Road" model). I don't know who they're really made by. They have a 37mm "EuroTrip Road" model and a 45mm "EuroTrip Hybrid" model. If anyone has any experience with those, by the way, I'd be interested to hear.

Thanks for your help,

Jenn

[thejen12]

My Rambouillet installation of 40mm Berthouds is here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=345786&postcount=11


Gorgeous bike, and fenders, by the way!

Jenn

[mschol17]

If you're going to go the metal fender route, you should check out Velo Orange's aluminum fenders. $35, longer than normal, and light.

www.velo-orange.com

[Too Tall]

What Curt said: the 35mm smooth Honjo with a "skinny" 24 or 25mm tire is slicker than deer guts on a door knob - looks great on ti, fwiw.
Spoken like a man who admires deer across the fenders and "checking Stations" ouch.

+1 for smooth Honjos, super nice. Setup takes patience, worth it.

[Orin]

Hi Orin,

My husband as a Soma Smoothie ES with the IRD Mosaic 57carbon fork (with clearance for 32c tires and fenders), and Shimano long-reach brakes.

One set of fenders that interested him were the Soma Chromoplastice fenders on the Soma website, because they would match his bike (if he got the "Road" model). I don't know who they're really made by. They have a 37mm "EuroTrip Road" model and a 45mm "EuroTrip Hybrid" model. If anyone has any experience with those, by the way, I'd be interested to hear.

Thanks for your help,

Jenn

I think the 37mm Chromoplastic would work fine. I'd measure the clearance inside the fork, between the chainstays and between the seatstays below the brake bridge at the rear before going for the 45mm version. Metal fenders can be bent a little so you can get away with a couple of mm too little clearance here and there. You can't bend the plastic ones, so you have to perform surgery if they are too wide anywhere.

Orin.

[thejen12]

If you're going to go the metal fender route, you should check out Velo Orange's aluminum fenders. $35, longer than normal, and light.

www.velo-orange.com
Oooh, extra long, now we're talkin'! Is there any way to get these in, or make them, black?

Jenn

[J.Greene]

Oooh, extra long, now we're talkin'! Is there any way to get these in, or make them, black?

Jenn

powder coat

JG

[mschol17]

Is there any way to get these in, or make them, black?



Spray paint?

[thejen12]

powder coat

JG
Perfect!

Jenn

[dvancleve]

You can do pretty much anything to the plastic ones, right up to liquefying them, with some judicious heat gun application. Be careful not to burn yourself and less = more until you get a feel for it ;^)

Doug

I think the 37mm Chromoplastic would work fine. I'd measure the clearance inside the fork, between the chainstays and between the seatstays below the brake bridge at the rear before going for the 45mm version. Metal fenders can be bent a little so you can get away with a couple of mm too little clearance here and there. You can't bend the plastic ones, so you have to perform surgery if they are too wide anywhere.

Orin.

[thejen12]

Thanks, Everyone,

For all the advice and info. I've learned a lot about fenders in the past few days. It looks like, for me, it will be Honjo or Berthoud - I'd like to get them powder coated to match my bike and it sounds like these are about the only two that will accomodate that.

The question is, which, and which size? I guess I could go with 35mm Honjos or 40mm Berthouds over my 700c 25mm Michelin P2Rs. I don't know what the weight difference is, and I would be interested to hear, if anyone knows the weights of either. I am leaning towards the Berthouds because they sound a little more sturdy, and if they match my bike I'd especially like them to last a long time. (Although I suppose I could have another set powder coated later on by supplying the right color code.) I definitely prefer the smooth style fender for myself, rather than the hammered style. And, while extra-long fenders sound great, I think the mudflap might be a better way to go.

Oh, one more thing. I don't really need fenders in the summer, here in CA, is one of those brands easier to remove and put back on than the other?

I searched and found an old thread that said something like "Don't start up the old Honjo vs Berthoud flame war", but I couldn't find the flame war - I'd be interested in reading it if someone has a link to it. :D

Thanks again,

Jenn

[Orin]

Thanks, Everyone,

For all the advice and info. I've learned a lot about fenders in the past few days. It looks like, for me, it will be Honjo or Berthoud - I'd like to get them powder coated to match my bike and it sounds like these are about the only two that will accomodate that.

The question is, which, and which size? I guess I could go with 35mm Honjos or 40mm Berthouds over my 700c 25mm Michelin P2Rs. I don't know what the weight difference is, and I would be interested to hear, if anyone knows the weights of either. I am leaning towards the Berthouds because they sound a little more sturdy, and if they match my bike I'd especially like them to last a long time. (Although I suppose I could have another set powder coated later on by supplying the right color code.) I definitely prefer the smooth style fender for myself, rather than the hammered style. And, while extra-long fenders sound great, I think the mudflap might be a better way to go.

Oh, one more thing. I don't really need fenders in the summer, here in CA, is one of those brands easier to remove and put back on than the other?

I searched and found an old thread that said something like "Don't start up the old Honjo vs Berthoud flame war", but I couldn't find the flame war - I'd be interested in reading it if someone has a link to it. :D

Thanks again,

Jenn

Michelin 25s under a Honjo 35 is going to be a tight squeeze. The inside dimension of the fenders runs 5 to 6mm less than the advertised size due to the rolled lip. Michelin 25s tend to run 27mm wide or so. So for that reason, I'd go for the Berthouds. I have 30mm (which are running nearly 32mm wide) Grand Bois Cypres tires on my Rambouillet and it's a mighty tight squeeze under the 40mm Berthouds. You really want the fender to be 10 to 12mm wider than the true size of the tire IMO. And that's only half the story... vertical clearance can be a problem under the fork crown with the tire hitting the nut used to hold the fender even after cutting the bolt off flush with the end of the nut. That would prevent me using either fender on my Rapid Tour with any tire larger than a true 25mm unless I was to fabricate my own mount at the fork. You'll be OK with 57mm reach brakes with the pads near the bottom of the slots with ether fender though.

The mounting hardware differs between the Berthoud and Honjo. Personally, I find the flattened strut that bolts to the Berthoud fender easier to deal with than the eyebolts that tend to come with Honjos and the use of eyebolts to hold the struts at the dropouts doesn't play nice with regular threaded fender/rack mounts. To their credit, both Velo-Orange and Berthoud supply clamps that can be bolted to regular mounts.

Orin.

Orin.

[vaxn8r]

I just thought I'd show what happens when you're the ONLY ONE ON THE RIDE WITH FENDERS (said in a Chris Farley sort of way).

Note the home-made rear extender which is about 3 cm off the ground :)

[willy in pacifi]

Jenn,

I have 35mm Honjos and run 25mm Michelins on two different bikes and they work fine and look great. I am sure 28's will fti under as well. However, your brake bridge may limit the size of the tire. ALso, I think teh Michelin 25's are actually a bit bigger than other 25's

One big tip. Use the cool leather washers, or two, where the metal fender meets the brake bridge or the chain stay bridge or the attachment bolt will eventually wear the hole bigger and cause rattling.

[vaxn8r]

OK Willy that's not freaking fair. Looks like I brought a knife to a gun fight.

[willy in pacifi]

OK Willy that's not freaking fair. Looks like I brought a knife to a gun fight.

Knife? You call that a Knife? : )

Even after 3 days of riding in the rain at PBP my bike did not look as dirty as yours. Most of the riders on PBP thought I had stopped and cleaned my bike now and again but I did not. I did have to take it to the car wash afterwards to get the road boggers off of it. Lots of slow moving slugs on teh roads of France.

I have fenders on this bike and on my Co-Motion and one of the big benefits is that the bikes stay much cleaner on my commutes and not as many rock chips.

Willy in Pacifica

[Orin]

Willy,

A few questions:

How do you like the disc brakes?

Do you have toe-clip overlap and if so, how much is the fender making it worse?

How tight is the clearance around those Pro2 Races... I measured the inside dimension of a (hammered) 43mm Honjo and got 35mm (even narrower than I thought)! Assuming the same for 35mm fenders and fat Michelins, I calculate zero clearance!

How did you get your bike to match that bridge(?) color so well?

Orin.

[willy in pacifi]

Willy,

A few questions:

How do you like the disc brakes?

Do you have toe-clip overlap and if so, how much is the fender making it worse?

How tight is the clearance around those Pro2 Races... I measured the inside dimension of a (hammered) 43mm Honjo and got 35mm (even narrower than I thought)! Assuming the same for 35mm fenders and fat Michelins, I calculate zero clearance!

How did you get your bike to match that bridge(?) color so well?

Orin.

Orin,

The Michelins are probably a bit bigger than 25mm and they fit fine. I could raise the fenders up off the tire a bit and probably fit 28's under the 35mm fenders but maybe not Michelin 28's.

The disc brakes are fantastic. Two reasons for them. I get caught in the rain now and again so they work better. Big smile on my face at the stops on PBP as everyone else ground to a stop. Also, it allows me to keep my rims all black on the sidewalls of the rims since no brake pads tough them. Nice clean mean look of the wheels.

No toe overlap on this bike that I can remember. Sacha built the frok at 58mm of rake so that gets the wheel out there a bit extra. Plus the extra rake is good for handling if you use a bar bag that is a decent size. I believe you do not want the bag out in front of your front hub.

willy in pacifica

[thejen12]

Jenn,

I have 35mm Honjos and run 25mm Michelins on two different bikes and they work fine and look great. I am sure 28's will fti under as well. However, your brake bridge may limit the size of the tire. ALso, I think teh Michelin 25's are actually a bit bigger than other 25's

One big tip. Use the cool leather washers, or two, where the metal fender meets the brake bridge or the chain stay bridge or the attachment bolt will eventually wear the hole bigger and cause rattling.
Willy,

Thanks for the great info. Your bike is my inspiration! Of all the bikes I've seen on the forum, that is the one that sticks in my mind and I can't see it too often. :)

Jenn

[mike p]

Is the general consensus that the nice looking wood fenders are more for show than function?

Mike

[stackie]

Mike,

Although I have not ridden with wood fenders, my understanding is that since they are flat and not curved, that water will "leak" out from the sides. I think that it depends on what you want from the fenders. If you live in Portland and plan on riding in downpours, I'd probably stay away from the wood fenders. If you live somewhere more moderate, and just want something to keep the road wetness off when it has recently rained, the wood fenders may be fine. I'm going with wood fenders on my current project, but I am considering getting a pair of metal fenders powdered to match the frame, in case the woodies don't work out.

Sorry that I can't give a first hand experience recommendation for you, but that's my understanding. Maybe someone who has used them can chime in.

Jon

[bironi]

but, what's up with the extra head tube. :beer:

[Sacha White]

Mike,

Although I have not ridden with wood fenders, my understanding is that since they are flat and not curved, that water will "leak" out from the sides. I think that it depends on what you want from the fenders. If you live in Portland and plan on riding in downpours, I'd probably stay away from the wood fenders. If you live somewhere more moderate, and just want something to keep the road wetness off when it has recently rained, the wood fenders may be fine. I'm going with wood fenders on my current project, but I am considering getting a pair of metal fenders powdered to match the frame, in case the woodies don't work out.

Sorry that I can't give a first hand experience recommendation for you, but that's my understanding. Maybe someone who has used them can chime in.

Jon

I had River City's Full Wood fenders on my winter bike for a couple of years. If they are mounted very close to the tire, you only get a little splash out the side.

I would use them again.

-Sacha

[vaxn8r]

Is the general consensus that the nice looking wood fenders are more for show than function?

Mike
Higher maintenance if you want to keep them looking OK. Trick though.

[R2D2]

I had River City's Full Wood fenders on my winter bike for a couple of years. If they are mounted very close to the tire, you only get a little splash out the side.

I would use them again.

-Sacha

I mounted the Berthoud carbon fenders close to the tires and had results similar to Sacha. Additionally a lot of rando guys I know now just put on the wool and stopped trying to stay dry. It never really works anyway. You always end up wet. But I like to avoid the Pepe Le' Pew stripe up my back.