ATMO and Zanc

[mjb266]

Okay, first please take this is a compliment to both as I think you two are two of the premier lugged steel builders in the business. I notice similar philosophies regarding cross, building, and the bikes that you produce are cut from the same cloth (one cloth older than the other but who's counting). You're also in the same neighborhood so I figured maybe something was up.

That being said, was there ever a working relationship or apprenticeship between you two? Did Zanc ever get booted out of the apprenticeship for not working enough and then claim abuse was...oh wait, wrong people.

Anyways, what's the inside scoop?

[e-RICHIE]

zanconatmo?

doh we're lesbian lovers from provincetown atspo.
what do you mean?????????

[mjb266]

I was wondering if you'd ever had a professional relationship...nothing more or less.

[Sir Maldoror]

Anyways, what's the inside scoop?

Scoop almost spells co-op with a few letters rearranged atsmo.

Sir Maldoror

[J.Greene]

Anyways, what's the inside scoop?

They share the right way of doing things atmo.

JG

[Bruce K]

Along with a great pride in the details and craftsmanship they produce.

On the other hand, I've heard about something called a chimeric twin? :rolleyes:

But, nah..... Zanc has more hair..... for now! :D

BK

[coylifut]

sure they both build lugged steel cross bikes, but Zank has a much hotter wife, I mean the lovely Deb is an angel....oh, man I'm in for it now.

[e-RICHIE]

I was wondering if you'd ever had a professional relationship...nothing more or less.my admiration for him and his ilk is the currency atmo.

[Bruce K]

Terry, RUN.... NOW... I hear the growling and snarling of man's best friend....

No wait, it's just e-richie bending some tubing. :D

BK

[mjb266]

I agree with sharing the right way point of view. Maybe it is how well they both practice their trade that made me wonder if one learned from the other.

I've was looking at Erickson's Frames and you can see the direct relationship with Moots.

You can do the same thing with some mountain bike builders who've learned from each other and the whole lineage that Chance or Kellog or others I can't remember right now. Kind of like tracing musical influences on artists...tracing framebuilding influences/relationships is interesting to me.

[mjb266]

sure they both build lugged steel cross bikes, but Zank has a much hotter wife, I mean the lovely Deb is an angel....oh, man I'm in for it now.


Yeah, but how's his dog for a race support crew? Mine just craps on the floor and refuses to go out in the rain. No good for cross.

[mjb266]

Was just thinking, someone should do a family tree of framebuilding. Maybe this is frameforum material but it'd be neat to see. I saw the pics of Walker with Colnago and it was interesting to think of how they were tied together.

[J.Greene]

You can do the same thing with some mountain bike builders who've learned from each other and the whole lineage that Chance or Kellog or others I can't remember right now.

sachs/weigle begat Chance who begat IF

JG

[e-RICHIE]

I saw the pics of Walker with Colnago and it was interesting to think of how they were tied together.
like this atmo -


http://www.roanoke.com/news/images/0604_shell_bondage.jpg

[e-RICHIE]

ps atmo (http://serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1690&highlight)

[mjb266]

like this atmo -


http://www.roanoke.com/news/images/0604_shell_bondage.jpg

Ernesto never looked so good...now Walker? maybe in his kilt

[J.Greene]

like this atmo -


http://www.roanoke.com/news/images/0604_shell_bondage.jpg


No wonder Don left Teaxas. That stuff is illegal in the lonestar state. Damn Don, your Hot atmo...

JG

[mjb266]

someone in the know (or a few people working together) please create a clow chart like this for us.

[e-RICHIE]

someone in the know (or a few people working together) please create a clow chart like this for us.
here -
adam/eve > the rest of us atmo

[mjb266]

Shoot, that's how I teach evolution to my high school kids!

[e-RICHIE]

Shoot, that's how I teach evolution to my high school kids!i betchoo some of them are hot atmo.
hey - gotta run and do my 70 minutes.
where's sandy?

[sspielman]

like this atmo -


http://www.roanoke.com/news/images/0604_shell_bondage.jpg

maybe this post belongs over in the "most dominant ever" thread......

[zank]

zanconatmo?

doh we're lesbian lovers from provincetown atspo.
what do you mean?????????

smooch :D

[mjb266]

i betchoo some of them are hot atmo.
hey - gotta run and do my 70 minutes.
where's sandy?

:no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:
I worked with a guy who got 7 years minimum in max security prison for doing something related to that. Graterford ain't kind to statutory types.

[Fixed]

they are bros
cheers imho

[zank]

If there was anyone I ever wanted to emulate, it is Richard. I have always loved his sense of style and how meticulous he is about every detail of the bicycle, not just the frameset. A lot of what I do is influenced by his work. But I prefer sloping crowns and stainless dropouts :fight:

[e-RICHIE]

If there was anyone I ever wanted to emulate, it is Richard. I have always loved his sense of style and how meticulous he is about every detail of the bicycle, not just the frameset. A lot of what I do is influenced by his work. But I prefer sloping crowns and stainless dropouts :fight:
zanc will get it in a fraction of the time compared
to guys from my group atmo. and that's atspo also.

[zank]

you flatter me, Sir-RICHIE. The one thing I hope to get in the near term is a Verge point a week from Saturday.

[Fixed]

two cool bros cheers imho

[davids]

sachs/weigle begat Chance who begat IF

JG
I don't know how to connect the dots between IF and Seven, but when I picked up my eBay Axiom in early '03, the nice young man at Seven who answered my noobie questions was named Zanco-something-or-other.

[mjb266]

Is there a way we could create a collective flow chart on google documents or something? I know the program inspiration but there has to be a program that would let us do that.

[e-RICHIE]

atmo -


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/1478761391_4f4ed445cc_o.jpg

[mjb266]

bah!

[chrisroph]

sure they both build lugged steel cross bikes, but Zank has a much hotter wife, I mean the lovely Deb is an angel....oh, man I'm in for it now.

I'd say you are qualified to discuss the bikes because you have one of each but when you start talking about wives .....

[manet]

bah!

1. merlin needs to slide right so it makes contact wid TK.
2. spectrum jeff should be making contact wid ross cycles.

[mjb266]

I think I'm too ignorant to take this task on but it's got to be easily done by those in the know.

[manet]

I think I'm too ignorant to take this task on but it's got to be easily done by those in the know.

provo project

[e-RICHIE]

I think I'm too ignorant to take this task on but it's got to be easily done by those in the know.
i'll make it easy for you -

three of us were at witcomb london (me jpw and ben).
jpw and i were there concurrently.

after that, witcomb usa was started (no relation to witcomb).
jpw and i went there and built frames.

risky (what we called c chance) came later and was trained
as a painter and all-around helper. there were 2 others there
like him. witcomb usa was fracturing by about 1976-1977.

i left in late 1975. jpw continued to build. i seriously doubt
risky was building frames there. no matter - he left and
eventually started a gig in cambridge-our-fair-city-ma and
eventually hooked up with helfrich who, i believe, was the
catalyst for the ti interest.

sideways, that spawned merlin. i believe that one-off, IF,
and eventually seven were spawned from the merlin side.

again, read this (http://serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15583&postcount=4) and this (http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/search?q=%22ed+allen%22) for more info. it speaks to the
effect that witcomb usa had on the family tree atmo.

[mjb266]

It's your illumination into Witcomb history in previous posts that has me wondering what a bigger map would look like. I have no idea what Witcomb in England was or where it got started. My attempts at a diagram are 30 seconds in Word without research or careful thought. I'm hoping it's a seed for someone else to document, not a finished product of the Witcomb lineage. Heck, a book on this would be fascinating, wouldn't make any $$$ but it'd be interesting.

[e-RICHIE]

It's your illumination into Witcomb history in previous posts that has me wondering what a bigger map would look like. I have no idea what Witcomb in England was or where it got started.
acccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk atmo.

My attempts at a diagram are 30 seconds in Word without research or careful thought. I'm hoping it's a seed for someone else to document, not a finished product of the Witcomb lineage. Heck, a book on this would be fascinating, wouldn't make any $$$ but it'd be interesting.
well i gave ya' all the facts from my perspective.

[mjb266]

acccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk atmo.

well i gave ya' all the facts from my perspective.

This is what I found online...

[old_school]

Off Fat you can add ANT & Igleheart

Off Merlin potentially there is potentially Helfrich's Arcotos Machine (framebuilding tool company)

Gary Helfrich was also a consultant to Lemond for his bikes welded by Trek

just to complicate matters

oh, and off Serotta there was Stowe

[e-RICHIE]

This is what I found online...
that's barry, charles barrett (builder), and two unknowns.
witcomb had about 5-6 builders when we passed through.

[coylifut]

I'd say you are qualified to discuss the bikes because you have one of each but when you start talking about wives .....

yeah, I know, I've only had one. It's the guys with a string of 'em that really know what they're talking about.

[csm]

I can't imagine more than 2 wives; total that is. I can't imagine more than 1 at a time.

[J.Greene]

I'm hoping it's a seed for someone else to document, not a finished product of the Witcomb lineage. Heck, a book on this would be fascinating, wouldn't make any $$$ but it'd be interesting.

There are a bunch of dead guys hardly anybody here has heard of you'd need to add. ie: jim redcay I think built some ross frames also. And of course you can't have a discussion like this at all without typing the name **** Power. He was unrelated to all the above but I wanted to type **** Power. And if the filter removes **** Power it's D*I*C*K POWER.

JG

[e-RICHIE]

i used to have it.
now i have it once in a while atmo.


http://www.bicyclepaintings.com/studio02/power/images/decal.jpg

[shinomaster]

sure they both build lugged steel cross bikes, but Zank has a much hotter wife, I mean the lovely Deb is an angel....oh, man I'm in for it now.


It's true I met ZAnc's wife.. ;)

[Fixed]

This is what I found online...
bro that is as modern as today
cheers imho

[jtferraro]

i'll make it easy for you -

three of us were at witcomb london (me jpw and ben).
jpw and i were there concurrently.

after that, witcomb usa was started (no relation to witcomb).
jpw and i went there and built frames.

risky (what we called c chance) came later and was trained
as a painter and all-around helper. there were 2 others there
like him. witcomb usa was fracturing by about 1976-1977.

i left in late 1975. jpw continued to build. i seriously doubt
risky was building frames there. no matter - he left and
eventually started a gig in cambridge-our-fair-city-ma and
eventually hooked up with helfrich who, i believe, was the
catalyst for the ti interest.

sideways, that spawned merlin. i believe that one-off, IF,
and eventually seven were spawned from the merlin side.

again, read this (http://serotta.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15583&postcount=4) and this (http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/search?q=%22ed+allen%22) for more info. it speaks to the
effect that witcomb usa had on the family tree atmo.

This is good stuff atmo! I gotta read the 'this' and 'this'.

Thanks,

[William]

Never heard of either of them. What'd they do???




;)
William