Was I at the same show???

[Ti Designs]

I went to Interbike, but I saw past the bike porn and got a better picture of trends in the industry. You couldn't read any of the interbike threads or blogs without knowing that there's a flood of carbon frames, forks, cranks, bars and kickstands. At one point I started to count how many places were showing frames made from the same carbon pieces. It came down to "so what color is your carbon frame?". But it's not so much the carbon that bothers me, it's the ever shorter length of a generation in the bike biz.

I started racing on a Colnago Super (used, cost me $400 and came with a pair of shoes - now when I see $400 shoes I can't help but ask if they come with a Colnago). It was [mostly] Columbus SL, had lugs and a steel fork. Over 15 years I had a number of bikes, mostly Columbus SL, a few Reynolds 531, one Reynolds 753 (crushed by American Airlines), a few Vitus tubesets and whatever they made that Zeus out of. My last bike of my racing career was a Peter Mooney which was a mix of Reynolds and Coulmbus, had lugs and a steel fork. My point here is that the same tooling that was used to make my first bike was also used to make my last bike 15 years later. When I bought a bike frame the jigs and fixtures used to build it had been paid for long ago. That's how a poor bike racer can afford a good frame.

Step forward to last week at Interbike. Carbon frames were mostly over $3000 with almost half of what I saw over the $4000 mark. The economic reason for this is simple, over the lifespan of that model they need to turn a profit, and a model generation is now about 1 year. Sure, there are many cases where the company uses the same design for a few years. I was impressed by Colnago in their C50 and C-ultimate line because they have stuck to designs from past years. Their prices are high, but no more so than other frames which nobody knows anything about. I worry about this need for the latest and greatest, I worry About untested designs. It's a good thing we're talking about a material which is simple to understand and never has failure issues in it's first model year :rolleyes:

As for the "cycling is the new golf" crap, it's the base of the sport that makes it strong for years to come. Good inexpensive bikes and getting people on them riding will push high end sales long into the future. Big money in a sport is trouble. Rock stars, movie starts, sports stars and big money sports all have one thing in common - drug problems.

Now for the good news. The things I went to check on had few changes - because they didn't need many. The big tandem makers (Santana and Co-Motion) haven't changed much at all. Campagnolo has changed only 3 small things. And you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...

[weisan]

And you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...
Habanero?

[Lifelover]

....you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...


Serotta?

[Len J]

Step forward to last week at Interbike. Carbon frames were mostly over $3000 with almost half of what I saw over the $4000 mark. The economic reason for this is simple, over the lifespan of that model they need to turn a profit, and a model generation is now about 1 year.

The economic reason those frames are $3,000 & $4,000 is because someone will pay it.......nothing more and nothing less. It wouldn't matter if the model generation was 10 years, the price wouldn't be different.

Sales price has nothing to do with cost except in the minimum price necessary as part of the go/no go decision.

Len

[vaxn8r]

I was talking with new owner of Burley cycles (which is now all about trailers only) and he said the industry research shows their average customer rides their bike 11 times a year. But they have no problem dropping $500-700 on a bike trailer. Don't kid yourselves, these are the exact same people buying $4,000 carbon frames.

[Fixed]

bro well we know .sl ,slx 753, 531 is that old and heavy stuff no good for racing junk that only geeks and messengers like
cheers imho

[palincss]

I was talking with new owner of Burley cycles (which is now all about trailers only) and he said the industry research shows their average customer rides their bike 11 times a year. But they have no problem dropping $500-700 on a bike trailer. Don't kid yourselves, these are the exact same people buying $4,000 carbon frames.

I didn't think you could pull a trailer with a $4,000 carbon frame. No, seriously. Are you sure?

[Fixed]

I didn't think you could pull a trailer with a $4,000 carbon frame. No, seriously. Are you sure?
extra for the hitch
cheers imho

[Steve Hampsten]

I was talking with new owner of Burley cycles (which is now all about trailers only) and he said the industry research shows their average customer rides their bike 11 times a year. But they have no problem dropping $500-700 on a bike trailer. Don't kid yourselves, these are the exact same people buying $4,000 carbon frames.

Burley's average customer may, in fact, be riding their bikes 11 times a year. These are not the same people, however, that are buying $4000 carbon frames. These are two different segments of the bike-buying populace.

[sspielman]

If I had to pull a trailer, I would probably only ride 11 times a year too....

[93legendti]

If I had to pull a trailer, I would probably only ride 11 times a year too....

Great strength work..I did it ~2 a week the last 2 seasons.

[shinomaster]

I went to Interbike, but I saw past the bike porn and got a better picture of trends in the industry. You couldn't read any of the interbike threads or blogs without knowing that there's a flood of carbon frames, forks, cranks, bars and kickstands. At one point I started to count how many places were showing frames made from the same carbon pieces. It came down to "so what color is your carbon frame?". But it's not so much the carbon that bothers me, it's the ever shorter length of a generation in the bike biz.

I started racing on a Colnago Super (used, cost me $400 and came with a pair of shoes - now when I see $400 shoes I can't help but ask if they come with a Colnago). It was [mostly] Columbus SL, had lugs and a steel fork. Over 15 years I had a number of bikes, mostly Columbus SL, a few Reynolds 531, one Reynolds 753 (crushed by American Airlines), a few Vitus tubesets and whatever they made that Zeus out of. My last bike of my racing career was a Peter Mooney which was a mix of Reynolds and Coulmbus, had lugs and a steel fork. My point here is that the same tooling that was used to make my first bike was also used to make my last bike 15 years later. When I bought a bike frame the jigs and fixtures used to build it had been paid for long ago. That's how a poor bike racer can afford a good frame.

Step forward to last week at Interbike. Carbon frames were mostly over $3000 with almost half of what I saw over the $4000 mark. The economic reason for this is simple, over the lifespan of that model they need to turn a profit, and a model generation is now about 1 year. Sure, there are many cases where the company uses the same design for a few years. I was impressed by Colnago in their C50 and C-ultimate line because they have stuck to designs from past years. Their prices are high, but no more so than other frames which nobody knows anything about. I worry about this need for the latest and greatest, I worry About untested designs. It's a good thing we're talking about a material which is simple to understand and never has failure issues in it's first model year :rolleyes:

As for the "cycling is the new golf" crap, it's the base of the sport that makes it strong for years to come. Good inexpensive bikes and getting people on them riding will push high end sales long into the future. Big money in a sport is trouble. Rock stars, movie starts, sports stars and big money sports all have one thing in common - drug problems.

Now for the good news. The things I went to check on had few changes - because they didn't need many. The big tandem makers (Santana and Co-Motion) haven't changed much at all. Campagnolo has changed only 3 small things. And you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...
The end is near.

[vaxn8r]

Burley's average customer may, in fact, be riding their bikes 11 times a year. These are not the same people, however, that are buying $4000 carbon frames. These are two different segments of the bike-buying populace.
I wouldn't bet on that. I know an attorney here in town who bought a Legend a few years ago. It's hanging in his garage and he never, I mean never, rides it.

[handsomerob]

Great strength work..I did it ~2 a week the last 2 seasons.

I just got a used d'Lite for $80 and took a little ride with my 3 year old on Sunday and he loved it. I plan go for a ride at least once a week with my 3 year old and 1 year old in it. I got it more for me than them, there were too many times that I couldn't ride because I was watching the kids.

FYI... I am using my Cross Check to tow it. 48/38 front with 11/34 XTR in the back ;) Should make easy work of the hills.

[shinomaster]

I wouldn't bet on that. I know an attorney here in town who bought a Legend a few years ago. It's hanging in his garage and he never, I mean never, rides it.


Is is Chrisroph? ;)

[93legendti]

...I got it more for me than them, there were too many times that I couldn't ride because I was watching the kids...

Exactly.
No both of my kids LOVE bikes. I was watching the US Road Race a few weeks ago on TV and my 1/2/ year old was going crazy, repeating "bike" over and over. My 4 1/2 year old daughter rides the tandem with me now, sometimes we pull the younger one in the trailer. Way too much fun.

[Bradford]

their average customer rides their bike 11 times a year. But they have no problem dropping $500-700 on a bike trailer.
I'm just curious, how much would you be willing to spend on a trailer to carry your child at 25 or 30 MPH? I didn't care how much it cost, I just wanted it to be as safe as possible for my son. We went with the Chariot.

[Ti Designs]

The economic reason those frames are $3,000 & $4,000 is because someone will pay it.......nothing more and nothing less. It wouldn't matter if the model generation was 10 years, the price wouldn't be different.

So the market evolution is all about the suckers who throw down their credit cards?

[boissy]

And you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...


Would that be a company somewhere between 6 and 8??

Do you have more info on Peter Mooney?

[vaxn8r]

I'm just curious, how much would you be willing to spend on a trailer to carry your child at 25 or 30 MPH? I didn't care how much it cost, I just wanted it to be as safe as possible for my son. We went with the Chariot.
Those Chariots sound pretty cool. Burley is playing catch up ever since they slid nearly into oblivion a few years ago. I expect Burley to resume leadership in their market soon.

I'm not knocking the price...but you aren't paying $700 for extra protection. A $250 gyro doeans't protect your head any better than a $30 Bell. With the Chariot you're paying for innovation and features and what the market will bear. But my point was people throw down the kwan for lots of stuff that is little more than a status symbol that hangs in the garage. That's clearly not you Bradford.

[Climb01742]

Would that be a company somewhere between 6 and 8??

Do you have more info on Peter Mooney?

http://www.peter-mooney.com/

if you live near boston, he's at wheelworks in belmont most days. a very nice, approachable guy. his shop is in the back of ww.

[boissy]

http://www.peter-mooney.com/

if you live near boston, he's at wheelworks in belmont most days. a very nice, approachable guy. his shop is in the back of ww.


Thanks!!!

[Fixed]

brp why does that sound so right a frame shop in the back of a bike shop ..
old school cool the way things are ment to be
cheers imho

[EDS]

I went to Interbike, but I saw past the bike porn and got a better picture of trends in the industry. You couldn't read any of the interbike threads or blogs without knowing that there's a flood of carbon frames, forks, cranks, bars and kickstands. At one point I started to count how many places were showing frames made from the same carbon pieces. It came down to "so what color is your carbon frame?". But it's not so much the carbon that bothers me, it's the ever shorter length of a generation in the bike biz.

I started racing on a Colnago Super (used, cost me $400 and came with a pair of shoes - now when I see $400 shoes I can't help but ask if they come with a Colnago). It was [mostly] Columbus SL, had lugs and a steel fork. Over 15 years I had a number of bikes, mostly Columbus SL, a few Reynolds 531, one Reynolds 753 (crushed by American Airlines), a few Vitus tubesets and whatever they made that Zeus out of. My last bike of my racing career was a Peter Mooney which was a mix of Reynolds and Coulmbus, had lugs and a steel fork. My point here is that the same tooling that was used to make my first bike was also used to make my last bike 15 years later. When I bought a bike frame the jigs and fixtures used to build it had been paid for long ago. That's how a poor bike racer can afford a good frame.

Step forward to last week at Interbike. Carbon frames were mostly over $3000 with almost half of what I saw over the $4000 mark. The economic reason for this is simple, over the lifespan of that model they need to turn a profit, and a model generation is now about 1 year. Sure, there are many cases where the company uses the same design for a few years. I was impressed by Colnago in their C50 and C-ultimate line because they have stuck to designs from past years. Their prices are high, but no more so than other frames which nobody knows anything about. I worry about this need for the latest and greatest, I worry About untested designs. It's a good thing we're talking about a material which is simple to understand and never has failure issues in it's first model year :rolleyes:

As for the "cycling is the new golf" crap, it's the base of the sport that makes it strong for years to come. Good inexpensive bikes and getting people on them riding will push high end sales long into the future. Big money in a sport is trouble. Rock stars, movie starts, sports stars and big money sports all have one thing in common - drug problems.

Now for the good news. The things I went to check on had few changes - because they didn't need many. The big tandem makers (Santana and Co-Motion) haven't changed much at all. Campagnolo has changed only 3 small things. And you'll never guess who had the least expensive full custom titanium bike that could be had in just a few weeks...

I am almost certain that the competitive advantage of one of these $4000 frames you saw or an Otrott over a $700 alluminum Specialized Allez is nil, particularly where the roads are smooth. So the barriers to entry are still relatively low for a beginning rider/racer. The reason these bikes are so cheap now is because they have been replaced by the latest and greatest. So in that sense, innovation is good for the little guys too.

That said, most people who become involved in the sport develop their owns sense of what their dream machine may be. For some, that is a skinny tubed steel touring bike. For others, it is a 14 lb carbon bike.

In the end, biking is still less expensive then golf, boating, horseback riding, sailing, etc.

[stevep]

.
Sales price has nothing to do with cost except in the minimum price necessary as part of the go/no go decision.
Len

remember that there are many things that need to be added to "cost" to arrive at the cost of a product.
its not just the cost of the tubing and a little glue.

very few of the companies that actually make their stuff are awash in dollars.
thats a fact.

[jpw]

If I had to pull a trailer, I would probably only ride 11 times a year too....

Too true....:-)

[e-RICHIE]

very few of the companies that actually make their stuff are awash in dollars.
thats a fact.
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i told you not to kill the fantasy atmo.

[swoop]

haliburton. i'm just saying... its some tubes and some welding stuff or some plastic and a carboard box to ship it in.
the rest went to faking moon missions.

[stevep]

very few of the companies that actually make their stuff are awash in dollars.
thats a fact.


except sachs.
he drives a cadillac escalade and lives on a floor at trump towers.

[bfd]

I wouldn't bet on that. I know an attorney here in town who bought a Legend a few years ago. It's hanging in his garage and he never, I mean never, rides it.

I love people like that! I've gotten so many deals from these type of people. I bet in a few years, that Legend, probably with full DA10 or Record10 group, will be on sale on craigslist for $1000, 1200, maybe less. Love it!

A few years ago, I bought an almost brand new DA9/Mavic Open Pro wheelset for $150. The woman had just bought a brand new bike and after a few rides, decided she needed to upgrade her wheels. $800 or $1000 later, she had DA9/Mavic OP wheelset for cheap. Bargain!

[e-RICHIE]

except sachs.
he drives a cadillac escalade and lives on a floor at trump towers.this is $teve pucci's official uniform ato -

http://www.blingh2o.com/store/images/blingTshirt.jpg

[handsomerob]

I love people like that! I've gotten so many deals from these type of people. I bet in a few years, that Legend, probably with full DA10 or Record10 group, will be on sale on craigslist for $1000, 1200, maybe less. Love it!

A few years ago, I bought an almost brand new DA9/Mavic Open Pro wheelset for $150. The woman had just bought a brand new bike and after a few rides, decided she needed to upgrade her wheels. $800 or $1000 later, she had DA9/Mavic OP wheelset for cheap. Bargain!

Great minds think alike....

I love people with more money than sense. Makes my cycling habit pretty darn affordable. :banana:

My only concern is that of quality control... given that 95% of my cycling purchases are for used stuff. ;)

[jimcav]

to my mind not enough of either. to others too much of one (or as my wife might ask, "are you ever going to contribute to your IRA", to which my standard reply is i did, and I am riding it Saturday morning on the group ride)

so no sense, not enough money for my habit either--but enough to buy lots of great gear, most used and often from right here...

happily riding--on both handmade steel and hand made (assembled?) and mass made carbon.

jim

[rounder]

Great minds think alike....

I love people with more money than sense. Makes my cycling habit pretty darn affordable. :banana:

My only concern is that of quality control... given that 95% of my cycling purchases are for used stuff. ;)

To me, the best deal is when I feel like I found something that I really wanted and paid a price that I thought was fair and the seller got what he was hoping for (got a few like that). I was happy and the seller was happy. Nobody got ripped off.

[Steve Hampsten]

To me, the best deal is when I feel like I found something that I really wanted and paid a price that I thought was fair and the seller got what he was hoping for (got a few like that). I was happy and the seller was happy. Nobody got ripped off.


Either that or taking candy from babies. it's all good.

[chrisroph]

Is is Chrisroph? ;)


oooh, i'm hooking you into the blackberrys. :beer:

[handsomerob]

Either that or taking candy from babies. it's all good.

Agreed. :D

The only "guilty" purchase I had was because I felt like the bike was stolen after I received it. So, on my own accord, I tracked down the rightful owner and made things right.

The last good deal I got was at the buy it now price, which was about a 3rd of what the bike was new and it only had about 100 miles on everything.

Smoking deal = check
Seller got what they were asking for = check
Need to sell another bike to make room = check

[Bittersweet]

brp why does that sound so right a frame shop in the back of a bike shop ..
old school cool the way things are ment to be
cheers imho

Grainy, terrible photos and I don't want to hear about the stem or the gay bars. Day-glo was still fashionable when I built this up. Still a great ride today.

[Bradford]

I'm not knocking the price...but you aren't paying $700 for extra protection. A $250 gyro doeans't protect your head any better than a $30 Bell. With the Chariot you're paying for innovation and features and what the market will bear. But my point was people throw down the kwan for lots of stuff that is little more than a status symbol that hangs in the garage. That's clearly not you Bradford.
I have never thought of a bike trailer as a status symbol, but I'm sure some people do. They seem pretty dorky to me. And you are right, I'm not so into status symbols. Heck, my Legend isn't even recognizable as a Serotta unless you are two feet away and know what to look for. If I had thought about it as a status symbol, I may have bought the Burley!

My point, not made very well, is that baby trailers are an emotional decision, not a rational decision. Most parents, me included, would pay more for a baby product even if there is slightest chance that it would be safer. Chariots may not be safer, but they certainly give that impression, which is enough to open up the wallet.

I would trust a Burley and I would trust a Chariot, but that is about it. I have friends who picked up a no-name trailer at Target for their kid. It is probably OK, but it would scare the crap out of me. There are a lot of things I buy, actually most things I buy, where I try to save money. But if there is anything that has to do with my son's safety, I spring for the best I can find. I just don't want to take the chance.

You are probably right, others are safe enough, but I'm just not willing to take the chance. I think parents are irrational more than they are rational.

[93legendti]

I have never thought of a bike trailer as a status symbol, but I'm sure some people do. They seem pretty dorky to me. And you are right, I'm not so into status symbols. Heck, my Legend isn't even recognizable as a Serotta unless you are two feet away and know what to look for. If I had thought about it as a status symbol, I may have bought the Burley!

My point, not made very well, is that baby trailers are an emotional decision, not a rational decision. Most parents, me included, would pay more for a baby product even if there is slightest chance that it would be safer. Chariots may not be safer, but they certainly give that impression, which is enough to open up the wallet.

I would trust a Burley and I would trust a Chariot, but that is about it. I have friends who picked up a no-name trailer at Target for their kid. It is probably OK, but it would scare the crap out of me. There are a lot of things I buy, actually most things I buy, where I try to save money. But if there is anything that has to do with my son's safety, I spring for the best I can find. I just don't want to take the chance.

You are probably right, others are safe enough, but I'm just not willing to take the chance. I think parents are irrational more than they are rational.

I have a friend who's 2 year old had part of the tip of her finger cut off when she put her finger thru the hole of their Schwinn trailer. Why Schwinn thought a child's trailer should have a hole next to the wheels is beyond me. It is the girl's ring finger on her left hand.

As far as dorky, a friend of the family told me she saw me pulling our daughter in the Burley and "how funny" I looked. Obvioulsy her issue, not mine.

[ecl2k]

I have a friend who's 2 year old had part of the tip of her finger cut off when she put her finger thru the hole of their Schwinn trailer. Why Schwinn thought a child's trailer should have a hole next to the wheels is beyond me. It is the girl's ring finger on her left hand.

As far as dorky, a friend of the family told me she saw me pulling our daughter in the Burley and "how funny" I looked. Obvioulsy her issue, not mine.


Call me crazy but I think child trailers are something that should be built by hand using stuff from home depot. It's like a wooden cart right? I don't think those yuppy expensive ones have ABS and side impact airbags, and a piece of foam is all the suspension junior needs. Hell you could strap in their car seat too. I like this idea.

[11.4]

So the market evolution is all about the suckers who throw down their credit cards?

Around where I live, we have a very successful Serotta shop. They sell at least one Ottrott or Meivici a month and yet in all the time I've been riding on the standard cycling routes and trails, I have only once - ONCE - seen a Ottrott or Meivici frame. Period. Now I train pretty much daily and put in around 11,000 road miles a year, and I live in a fairly high income neighborhood in a fairly high income town. So you'd think I'd see some of these bikes? But nooooooooo.

Lest you condemn the cycling industry (or cyclists), here's another bit of food for thought. A magazine trade organization did a survey of subscribers at various magazines a few years ago. They looked at subscribers to magazines in areas such as woodworking, quilting, and sailing. Here's what they found. In woodworking, the average subscriber had spent approximately $4,400 on their own personal woodworking shop in the past five years and the average number of projects they had completed there was, yup, less than one. In quilting, the average subscriber purchased approximately $1,040 a year in quilting fabrics and completed, on average, one quilt every four years. In sailing (god help us all here), the average sailor had an average sailboat investment of $34,000 and spent $5,600 a year, and sailed, yup, twice a year. On this basis, I feel pretty good if I meet a cyclist on a $5,000 frame who rides it ten times a year. We're doing pretty good as an industry.

[93legendti]

Call me crazy but I think child trailers are something that should be built by hand using stuff from home depot. It's like a wooden cart right? I don't think those yuppy expensive ones have ABS and side impact airbags, and a piece of foam is all the suspension junior needs. Hell you could strap in their car seat too. I like this idea.

No it isn't and yeah, I'll call you crazy. I can't believe this is a societal issue. :rolleyes: But, I know I can't build a trailer that:
weighs less than 30 lbs with a roll bar;
has nice wheels with actual tires;
has a 100lb limit;
collapses into something 10% of its size for storage and transport;
will not flip over if you crash because the hitch rotates so the trailer stays upright;
even if it does tip, it has a 5 point harness to keep the child's head from hitting the ground;
has rain flaps, as well ventilation flaps.

Even if I could build all that it would cost me more in time than it would be worth. An for sure the trailer built by you at HD will be uncomfortable, noisy and so have a rolling resistance so high that neither you, nor your kid will want to use it.

Besides, iirc, Burley is owned by a bunch of granola chewers, so what's the problem?


My guess is you do not have kids.

I'm calling your bluff, let's see what you can build with parts from HD.

[Polyglot]

I'm just curious, how much would you be willing to spend on a trailer to carry your child at 25 or 30 MPH? I didn't care how much it cost, I just wanted it to be as safe as possible for my son. We went with the Chariot.

There is not a single trailer manufacturer who does not explicitly state that you should not be going that fast. Even if 80% of the manufacturers' reasoning behind the top speed limitation statement is to protect themselves from liabiliity questions, I do believe you are being foolhardy going that fast, already at 15 mph you are reaching critical speed if something were to go wrong. I have seen Chariots flip over, just like Burleys and others.

Just FYI, I have ridden thousands of miles with my kids in tow in trailers and have now upgraded to riding with them on my tandems and triplet.

[93legendti]

There is not a single trailer manufacturer who does not explicitly state that you should not be going that fast. Even if 80% of the manufacturers' reasoning behind the top speed limitation statement is to protect themselves from liabiliity questions, I do believe you are being foolhardy going that fast, already at 15 mph you are reaching critical speed if something were to go wrong. I have seen Chariots flip over, just like Burleys and others.

Just FYI, I have ridden thousands of miles with my kids in tow in trailers and have now upgraded to riding with them on my tandems and triplet.

25 mph, with a trailer that catches a lot of wind, with ~30 lbs of kid inside, plus the ~30 lb. weight of the trailer and the added rolling resistance of the 2 wheels, is not easy to maintain. I pulled my duaghter and her friend on a dirt path early in the year and 18 mph was pretty tough.

[Fixed]

Grainy, terrible photos and I don't want to hear about the stem or the gay bars. Day-glo was still fashionable when I built this up. Still a great ride today.
very nice bro thanks
cheers imho

[RABikes2]

This was my first time to Interbike. I had heard and read the negatives, but I was looking forward to experiencing the event. I had no clue what to expect and had an open mind when I went in the doors for the first time Wednesday a.m. I arrived at Interbike when it opened. I was amazed at the glitter and brightness of displays, attempts at advertising appeal, and the gigantic show floor. Unlike the reports so far, my Interbike experience was based on looking at soft goods...clothes, shoes, and accessories as one of my jobs is the clothing buyer for our bike shop. My main purpose on the floor was to look at "stuff" other than the bikes.

Five weeks ago, our "two store front" bike shop was expanded to a "three store front" shop. We've got decent space now and want to use it wisely. The plan is to have five (clothing) sections; WSD, road biking, mtn. biking, triathlon, and kids. I did four preset appointments with current reps showing their ' 08 wares (two clothing companies, sunglasses, and shoes). I'd do it differently next time as in two of the appointments, the rep was interrupted umpteen times and it made my appointment longer. After these delays, if I was interested in the product, I began asking for "a rep covering our area to contact me at the store". On Thursday, I started giving my business card and saying, "just send the catalog"; I was going to need another suitcase if I continued taking them.

Wednesday and Thursday, I spent all day on the floor, from beginning to closing. At 5:30 Wednesday, I attended an open forum women's discussion group for an hour meeting. There were approximately 40 women (and a few men) present and the discussion was based on the bike industry's take on women in the cycling world. I went to the cyclocross race after the meeting. I loved it! Tallahassee has a cross race in December and after watching the Vegas race and talking to our cross race director, Jim, at the store a few days ago, I plan on being at the event here. It'll be total fun to see cyclists I know on a cross course.

Thursday, again, on the floor all day. I browsed, touched, looked, tasted, and also met vendors with decent products. There are a few products I found outstanding, not only in the product itself, but there are things you can tell about a business when you meet the owner and the staff of the company. I met with reps I've worked with over the phone (I rarely do computer orders for a reason) for the past four years and it was like meeting distant old friends. We spend a lot of $$ with these companies and during the years, they have taken very good care of me as the store's buyer. At 5:30 again, I went to the Outdoor Women's Industry Coalition (OWIC) for their award meeting and gathering. I met up with some of the same women from the night before. California (West coast) has a lot more presence and participation in these meetings than the East coast women do. At this meeting, Gary Fisher showed up with his sweetie and I got to meet him (we are a GF dealer). He was very gracious. Afterward, I went to the crit race and enjoyed it immensely.

Friday, ahhhh, the best part of the whole trip, the owner of our store and his wife were also in Vegas for the week and rented a convertible. They picked me up at 7:30 a.m. and we drove to Red Rock Canyon and toured the canyon. I loved it as this was, by far, the coolest part of the trip. Being out near the mountains was magical. I live in the country and love it, not into the lights, concrete, and crowds of any town, and Vegas is no exception. I can take a few hours of looking and then...I'm outta there. This morning was fabulous with the weather, scenery, and beauty of the canyon. After lunch, I was dropped off at Interbike for a few more hours in the afternoon.

There were five things I needed to take care of that afternoon. Four got done, but I was unable to get back and meet up again with Tom Kellogg. Sorry Tom, time got away from me. I was delighted to meet Tom; what a nice guy. I left Interbike when it closed Friday and walked on the strip for hours. On the way back to my hotel, I came upon a Critical Mass. I couldn't resist asking questions and then watch. For what it's worth, when the mass of approximately 50 riders came down the ramp to enter the Strip, traffic was a Friday night zoo. The moment the first 4-5 cyclists rolled on to the road, a fire truck with sirens blaring came screaming down the Strip from behind them. Traffic was zigzagging everywhere, cyclists were pulling over, and the truck flew by. Then as quickly, the cars got crazy again, and the mix of the 50 or so cyclists was thrown in to it. This was not a good thing and I can't imagine cars/people liking us more because of it.

My second Trek WSD (Women's Specific Design) party is October 18. Dang, the women are going to be happy. At Interbike, I made contact with quite a few of my reps and every one of them said they'd send something for the party either as a door prize or they'd send a product that everyone would get in their goody bag. I've received 5 loaded boxes so far and expect at least 3 more. These will be really good schwag bags. Reps are A-ok; they take good care of me. ;)

BTW, I absolutely enjoyed Interbike, but oh my gosh, it felt wonderful to get back home. Quiet...shhhhhhh! ;)

RA

[RABikes2]

Tuesday at Dirt Demo, I got to ride some nice road bikes. The top two rides of the day for me: I demo'd a Trek WSD 5.1 Madone on the morning's Tour of Lake Mead (Hangover Ride). My next pick was a Colnago - - sweet!

I compare every ride to my Legend, so it means something, I know, only to me.

RA

[oldfatslow]

The role is marketing is to indentify those people who can not tell the difference between fine silk and polyester and place a vacuum house in their pocket and suck until all they get out is lint.

What's interesting is that while a lot of the money is going to Trek and Specialized there is also a lot of money going to small builders resulting in an array of wonderful choices for guys like us who value the beauty and artistry of a hand made bicycle.

I have no problem with people buying $4,000 bikes and riding them 10 times if that means when I save the $4,000 to buy a bike that the range of builders available to me is broad (even if I have to wait longer for it as a result of those richs unfit guys ahead of me in line). It also makes eBay an interesting market for those with the patience and persistence to find and buy beautiful things.